Smoking policy on Holland

[HamOp]

I would love to know the source of this fact, as this isn't true in Canada. While in Canada university graduates had half the smoking prevalence of any other educational group, it would be erroneous to conclude from this fact that smoking is a habit of those with lower education levels. In fact, at the population level, more than 700,000 university graduates, more than 1 million people with college graduates smoke and more than 2 million high school graduates smoke. Nearly 1 million with less than a high school education smoke.

 

http://www.tobaccoreport.ca/2013/TobaccoUseinCanada_2013.pdf

 

Here ya go!

 

http://www.cdc.gov/tobacco/data_statistics/fact_sheets/adult_data/cig_smoking/

 

In part it states:

 

By Education

 

24.7% of adults with 12 or less years of education (no diploma)

41.9% of adults with a GED diploma

23.1% of adults with a high school diploma

9.1% of adults with an undergraduate college degree

5.9% of adults with a postgraduate college degree

 

By Poverty Status

 

27.9% of adults who live below the poverty level

17.0% of adults who live at or above the poverty level

[Drico]

Are you all still going on and on about smoking on HAL?! Move on people, there's so much more (and fun) things to talk about cruising than this.

[kazu]

WOW! REALLY?? I smoked for 35 years and quit 10 months ago. No one ever guessed me to be a smoker. They would be surprised when I would excuse myself to have a cigarette. Good genes, I suppose. I do know "the look" that you mention but not all smokers have it.

 

My advice is that smokers, smoke where it is allowed and be courteous. Non smokers, stay away from smoking areas and if you go there remember that you do not have to be there.

 

Excuse me now, I have to go make sure that that "look" has not set in on me yet! TOO FUNNY!:eek:

 

Are you all still going on and on about smoking on HAL?! Move on people, there's so much more (and fun) things to talk about cruising than this.

 

great posts! There is truly much more to talk about than this for cruising.

 

and yes hal lover - I agree - not everyone can spot a smoker ;)

 

I know several who are unknown to be smokers in general. They do it discreetly and quietly. I will put there smelling sense against anyone and they are wonderful people :) Lines? hmmm? if your are thin you have more lines - if you are not so thin - you have fewer lines (unless of course there has been some cosmetic surgery involved).

 

Generalities are always worrisome. JMO of course.

 

congratulations on licking it - hats off to you.

[Aussiepair]

There are plenty of doctors, lawyers, even ship's Captains' who are smokers (as you should know!). I suppose they're not educated either?

 

As for your other remark, perhaps you need to recall the number of posters on this board who have given up in recent years or even months and I don't think there are many members here who are teenagers;) which means they've given up around middle age or even older.

 

As far as health risks go, there are a number of people here who have medical issues of one kind or another who have never smoked.

 

I haven't got heart problems, nor on meds for high blood pressure, cholesterol or diabetes. Touch wood, I'm doing fine so far. But yes, I am aware of the risks but I believe they are overstated and that smoking gets blamed for almost every ailment or illness.

 

Put simply, I enjoy smoking. The time may come when I don't and then I will stop (no need to give up if that happens).

 

I know that I'll eventually die of something - nobody lives for ever.:cool:

 

 

You sound so much like my father. While he was laying on his death bed at the age of 72 dying from lung cancer he said to me " you know they still can't "prove" it was the smokes that did this", very sad. I hope you can overcome your addiction and live a long life.

[iancal]

It is not that hard.

 

If you do not like the policy and smoke bothers you then simply cruise on another cruise line.

 

If you want to complain, complain to HAL. It is their ship, their policy.

 

How hard is that?

[richard1s]

When we started cruising in 2001, smoking was allowed almost everywhere on the ship, including the cabin. The "cigar room" was perhaps the most disgusting venue of all. But the entire industry has come a long way since then.

 

On our recent HAL cruise, visiting the casino was impossible because it was filled with smoke and poorly ventilated (Nieuw Amsterdam). But I truly believe that continued pressure on HAL, and other lines to follow the example of Celebrity, will eventually lead to policies that allow non-smokers the freedom to enjoy a smoke free experience on their cruise vacation. One of the beauties of the balcony is to enjoy fresh, never breathed air - even a smoker couldn't resist that.

 

But I do believe that giving smokers their space strikes the balance that can work. Smokers that I encounter follow the rules, we just have to give them some options so they can enjoy their vacation too.

[Aussiepair]

It is not that hard.

 

If you do not like the policy and smoke bothers you then simply cruise on another cruise line.

 

If you want to complain, complain to HAL. It is their ship, their policy.

 

How hard is that?

 

 

I am quite sure that is what the majority of people are doing. I complained to HAL and I won't cruise with HAL again until they change their smoking policy.

 

The purpose of threads like this one is to warn other cruisers that may not be aware of HAL's smoking policy.

 

I am sure that no smoker would like to see a non smoker pay thousands of dollars extra for a balcony that they can not use because of a cigar chain smoker in the cabin next door. It happened to us so I will go out of my way to possibly prevent it happening to someone else.

 

I have no issues with HAL becoming the last bastion for smokers so long as everyone is aware of the situation.

[tip]

We have taken six HAL cruises and feel that HAL provides an excellent product.

 

However, we shall not sail HAL again until they adopt a 21st Century smoking policy.

[cruiseing marly]

We have taken six HAL cruises and feel that HAL provides an excellent product.

 

However, we shall not sail HAL again until they adopt a 21st Century smoking policy.

I agree with you Hal will change there policy only if its to there benefit .After our April cruise we will decide if we will continue sailing with HAL.Love there cruise don't like there smoking policy. I would prefer they allowed smoking in the cabins rather than the balconies . That way it would not effect the nonsmoker! They were good at getting the rooms oder free after the smokers.

[sail7seas]

I agree with you Hal will change there policy only if its to there benefit .After our April cruise we will decide if we will continue sailing with HAL.Love there cruise don't like there smoking policy. I would prefer they allowed smoking in the cabins rather than the balconies . That way it would not effect the nonsmoker! They were good at getting the rooms oder free after the smokers.

 

 

I agree.

It has occured to me HAL allows smoking on verandahs rather than inside cabins not because they cannot eliminate smoke odors from the cabins after a smoker was in residence but because it takes time and money to clean the smokers' cabins when they leave.

 

If they smoke on the verandah, the only have to wash an ashtray. If they smoke inside the cabin, they have to do a deep cleaning.

 

Everything with every cruise line is about $$. Wherever/however they can save one cent, they will.

 

HAL has determined they will be ashtray of the seas and have a more liberal smoking policy but they don't want the expense of cleaning up after the smokers. They put the burden of paying the piper on the non-smoking verandah guests.

 

I am very sure this post will win me few HAL friends but I am nothing if not direct and honest and open to expressing my opinions. :eek: :o

 

[propwash]

Since it's been 10 years since I cruised on the Westerdam, back then they had a cigar room for smoking. Is there still that room available?

Thanks

Danny

[trout62]

I can't believe I am jumping into this thread. I obviously need to have my head examined. However, based on the posts I've read, I may have a slightly different perspective than the yes / no view expressed by most.

 

For the most part, I am not a fan of smoking. I remember years ago Carnival tried a completely non-smoking ship. I think I may have been one of the few to take that cruise...I think the idea lasted about 6 months...it was a financial disaster, but I liked it. Carnival tends to be a little rowdy for my taste, but that cruise was quite subdued, in a good way for me.

 

However, as I get older, I have been known to enjoy an occasional cigar. Mrs. Trout is the same way...a cigarette, on occasion, has been known to be consumed, usually in conjunction with an adult beverage. I guess you would call us recreational smokers. We are avid outdoor enthusiasts, divers, runners, cyclists, climbers, etc. Our breath does not (normally) smell bad, our clothes do not stink, our skin is not an off color and any wrinkles around our mouths are caused by smiles.

 

So what do we do? We vote with our wallets.

 

After several consecutive, very enjoyable HAL cruises, we switched to RCCl cruises, mostly because they had departures from cites we could drive to.

 

With the implementation of the non-smoking policy on RCCL balconies, we are back to HAL in case we do desire to have a smoke on the balcony.

 

Rules are rules. Sometimes they work for you, sometimes against. But as long as there are options, I don't exactly understand the almost religious fervor with which folks defend their positions on these forums.

 

Trout

[HamOp]

I agree.

It has occured to me HAL allows smoking on verandahs rather than inside cabins not because they cannot eliminate smoke odors from the cabins after a smoker was in residence but because it takes time and money to clean the smokers' cabins when they leave.

 

If they smoke on the verandah, the only have to wash an ashtray. If they smoke inside the cabin, they have to do a deep cleaning.

 

Everything with every cruise line is about $$. Wherever/however they can save one cent, they will.

 

HAL has determined they will be ashtray of the seas and have a more liberal smoking policy but they don't want the expense of cleaning up after the smokers. They put the burden of paying the piper on the non-smoking verandah guests.

 

I am very sure this post will win me few HAL friends but I am nothing if not direct and honest and open to expressing my opinions. :eek: :o

 

 

I'll still be your HAL friend, sail:D

Edited March 4, 2014 by HamOp

[rileylewis]

I just came back from my first cruise on the Nieuw Amsterdam. It was wonderful! I am very sensitive to cigarette smoke and could not use the sea pool at the back of the ship because of all the smokers out there. But the Lido was just fine for me.

 

I absolutely loved our inside cabin. Everything we needed and works for us. But I think that if I were to spend the extra money to get a balcony I would probably have to go with Princess or Celebrity.

 

Oh and I never saw or smelled anyone smoking on the promenade walk around the ship and I was there a lot.

 

Sent from my SCH-S720C using Tapatalk 2

[cbr663]

Here ya go!

 

http://www.cdc.gov/tobacco/data_statistics/fact_sheets/adult_data/cig_smoking/

 

 

Thank-you for providing the link, and with all due respect, I have to disagree with your findings.

 

The prevalence of smoking in the US, for instance, shows that for education level, 25.5% of smokers have less than a high school education, whereas, 55.9% (22.3%+19.3%+9.3%+5.0%) have at least some college education and above.

 

The data you provided for the prevalence of smoking and income status shows 29.0% of smokings as below the poverty line and 17.9% at or above the poverty line. This accounts for just 29.0% + 17.9% = 46.9% of the smoking population. Where are the other 53.1% of the smoking population?

[chrispb]

Are you sure you read what I posted?

Where did I say smokers are uneducated?

Where did I say only smokers become ill?

Kindly reread and see what it is I said.

 

Thanks. :)

 

 

It's implied by your comment "few educated people smoke":cool:

[chrispb]

Thank-you for providing the link, and with all due respect, I have to disagree with your findings.

 

The prevalence of smoking in the US, for instance, shows that for education level, 25.5% of smokers have less than a high school education, whereas, 55.9% (22.3%+19.3%+9.3%+5.0%) have at least some college education and above.

 

The data you provided for the prevalence of smoking and income status shows 29.0% of smokings as below the poverty line and 17.9% at or above the poverty line. This accounts for just 29.0% + 17.9% = 46.9% of the smoking population. Where are the other 53.1% of the smoking population?

 

Absolutely agree with you. I couldn't make the mathematics work out either:) Oops, perhaps I'm uneducated!

 

Any statistician will say "there are lies, damn lies and statistics":D

Edited March 4, 2014 by chrispb

[chrispb]

I agree with you Hal will change there policy only if its to there benefit .After our April cruise we will decide if we will continue sailing with HAL.Love there cruise don't like there smoking policy. I would prefer they allowed smoking in the cabins rather than the balconies . That way it would not effect the nonsmoker! They were good at getting the rooms oder free after the smokers.

 

I said at the time the rules were changed - "be careful what you wish for;)"

[lovesublime]

I can't believe I am jumping into this thread. I obviously need to have my head examined. However, based on the posts I've read, I may have a slightly different perspective than the yes / no view expressed by most.

 

For the most part, I am not a fan of smoking. I remember years ago Carnival tried a completely non-smoking ship. I think I may have been one of the few to take that cruise...I think the idea lasted about 6 months...it was a financial disaster, but I liked it. Carnival tends to be a little rowdy for my taste, but that cruise was quite subdued, in a good way for me.

 

However, as I get older, I have been known to enjoy an occasional cigar. Mrs. Trout is the same way...a cigarette, on occasion, has been known to be consumed, usually in conjunction with an adult beverage. I guess you would call us recreational smokers. We are avid outdoor enthusiasts, divers, runners, cyclists, climbers, etc. Our breath does not (normally) smell bad, our clothes do not stink, our skin is not an off color and any wrinkles around our mouths are caused by smiles.

 

So what do we do? We vote with our wallets.

 

After several consecutive, very enjoyable HAL cruises, we switched to RCCl cruises, mostly because they had departures from cites we could drive to.

 

With the implementation of the non-smoking policy on RCCL balconies, we are back to HAL in case we do desire to have a smoke on the balcony.

 

Rules are rules. Sometimes they work for you, sometimes against. But as long as there are options, I don't exactly understand the almost religious fervor with which folks defend their positions on these forums.

 

Trout

 

 

 

 

Not quite true. Carnival Paradise sailed six years as a non smoking ship. Carnival's statement was they had trouble recruiting and retaining non smoking staff and crew.

[sail7seas]

I'll still be your HAL friend, sail:D

 

 

Thank you, HamOp.

I appreciate that. :)

 

[sail7seas]

Not quite true. Carnival Paradise sailed six years as a non smoking ship. Carnival's statement was they had trouble recruiting and retaining non smoking staff and crew.

 

 

I actually think it was close to ten years Paradise sailed smoke free.

Carnival did not change the itinerary much, if at all, and the ship was getting older but Carnival added lots of new ships to their fleet in the interim.

 

It is also VERY pertinent to note that the number of smokers in U.S./Canada have decreased dramatically since the days Paradise entered service as a smoke free ship. It was a very different atmosphere for smokers then vs now.

 

Today, that ship would succeed smoke free, in my view.

 

[peaches from georgia]

According to several sites on google, the Carnival Paradise sailed as a non-smoking ship from Dec. 1998 to Dec. 2003, so exactly 5 years. Carnival's reason for discontinuing its non-smoking status was lack of sufficient revenue. I would think some mass market line would have a non-smoking ship if they believed it was financially viable.

[sail7seas]

According to several sites on google, the Carnival Paradise sailed as a non-smoking ship from Dec. 1998 to Dec. 2003, so exactly 5 years. Carnival's reason for discontinuing its non-smoking status was lack of sufficient revenue. I would think some mass market line would have a non-smoking ship if they believed it was financially viable.

 

 

That could be accurate dates.... I don't know but I do know it was far more than 6 months.

 

As to cruise lines sailing ships smoke free, some are sailing very close to smoke free.

There is very little smoking permitted on many cruise lines. No smoking in any cabins or verandahs and that is a major step HAL needs to take.

Many of us will continue to firmly make our opinions known it is time they do join so many other cruise lines and get rid of verandah smoking. The time is past due for HAL to provide smoke free verandahs for the comfort, safety and enjoyment of the vast majority of their guests. When the percentage of smokers is under 20%, the other 80% have a very loud voice. It is that loud voice that has had smoking eliminated in so many venues that previously permitted smoking. This is the last smoking fight we need wrestle.

 

Edited March 4, 2014 by sail7seas

[zelker]

As for the veranda, I can see where maybe your next door neighbor's smoking might bother you. But no way no how will smoke bother you from several doors down or another deck. The only way that might happen is if the ship is docked. And that's pushing it.

 

Oh, puh-LEEZ!! :rolleyes: Sorry but it is very real that smoke from a cabin many doors down or on decks below (heck, even decks above if the wind is blowing right) drifts into other verandahs while the ship is moving. And it doesn't take a bloodhound's nose to smell it. Smokers wouldn't notice it because they're on their own verandah smoking ;) and if you aren't smoking but someone else around you is, it's likely you won't smell it because you are a smoker and smokers don't smell smoke ... I can say this from first-hand experience because I, too, am an ex-smoker (18 years now and darn thankful :D). Ironically (and this is the truth), when my doctor asked me how I finally quit, I told him it was the smell - and to this day, it's what keeps me from starting up again.

 

So don't tell me that smoke from somewhere else "no way no how" doesn't bother me because it most certainly does!

[richwmn]

That could be accurate dates.... I don't know but I do know it was far more than 6 months.

 

As to cruise lines sailing ships smoke free, some are sailing very close to smoke free.

There is very little smoking permitted on many cruise lines. No smoking in any cabins or verandahs and that is a major step HAL needs to take.

Many of us will continue to firmly make our opinions known it is time they do join so many other cruise lines and get rid of verandah smoking. The time is past due for HAL to provide smoke free verandahs for the comfort, safety and enjoyment of the vast majority of their guests. When the percentage of smokers is under 20%, the other 80% have a very loud voice. It is that loud voice that has had smoking eliminated in so many venues that previously permitted smoking. This is the last smoking fight we need wrestle.

 

Sail -- sorry but I am going to take issue with two of your statements.

1.

When the percentage of smokers is under 20%, the other 80% have a very loud voice.

While it is true that about 20% of the population smokes, your assertion that the entire remaining 80% shares your opinion about smoking can not be justified. At most, about 20% of the population would have the loud voice against smoking. The remaining 60% (give or take) don't care or are not effected by smoking. If 80% of the passengers were as vocal against smoking as you are, HAL would have restricted smoking more already.

 

2.

This is the last smoking fight we need wrestle.

Unfortunately, this is not true. At each step restricting smokers, those vocal against smoking have continued to ask for, and get, more.

 

3. Ultimately, this is a money decision for HAL - although it is one you don't agree with. If and when the issue begins to drop the bottom line, it will be addressed again.