Smoking policy on Holland

[KirkNC]

I must say we very much enjoyed our recent sailing on the Infinity and one of the items in that enjoyment was their smoking policy.

[david,Mississauga]

... I love HAL, but their smoking policy is outdated and contrary to their stated concern for the well-being and comfort of all their guests. Celebrity, Princess, and Royal Caribbean have all instituted new smoking policies that prohibit smoking on balconies and most public areas of their ships.

...

 

About two decades ago I found the British lines (mainly Cunard and P&O) were behind in limiting smoking, compared to the ships that were essentially US-based. But P&O banned smoking in staterooms about two years ago and on balconies about a year later. Cunard was a year behind P&O and, effective this April and May, smoking will be banned on balconies. Yes, I know they are owned by Carnival but they are operated by the offices in Southampton, UK.

[zelker]

Please HAL follow the lead of Princess, Celebrity, and RCI.

 

What strikes me as odd is that HAL falls under the same corporate umbrella (Carnival) as Princess, Cunard, and P&O, all of which prohibit smoking on verandahs, and Seabourn, which is now limiting smoking on verandahs to only two suite categories (better than before - would like to see it banned on all verandahs though) ... and yet HAL says "they will revisit this policy as attitudes toward smoking continue to change". Guess what, HAL ... am pretty sure those attitudes changed several years ago so why are you digging your heels in the sand? :confused:

[tinlizzie123]

Perhaps if everyone who is against smoking on balconies wrote and told HAL they might change the policy. I sent a letter to HAL complaining about smoking on balconies and telling them they were in danger of becoming a floating ashtray. I asked that my letter be forwarded to the President's office. Got a reply back saying that "guest input is always welcome and as attitudes toward smoking continue to change we will revisit this policy with comments such as yours in mind". So...let them know how you feel, I am sure a lot of you have already done that but if you haven't let them know.

[HamOp]

What strikes me as odd is that HAL falls under the same corporate umbrella (Carnival) as Princess, Cunard, and P&O, all of which prohibit smoking on verandahs, and Seabourn, which is now limiting smoking on verandahs to only two suite categories (better than before - would like to see it banned on all verandahs though) ... and yet HAL says "they will revisit this policy as attitudes toward smoking continue to change". Guess what, HAL ... am pretty sure those attitudes changed several years ago so why are you digging your heels in the sand? :confused:

 

I don't find it to be odd at all. Carnival Corporate has decided that by allowing one of it's many lines to be more free with smoking, they can "direct" the smokers to one line keeping them and the non-smokers both happy (well, some of them anyhow).

 

Not unlike a hotel that has designated some number of rooms as "smoking", Carnival has designated some of its ships (HAL) as being a home for smokers.

 

The decision, if I'm right, may have been dictated by the age demographic on Holland ships.

 

Then again, I could be wrong:D

[frankc98376]

What strikes me as odd is that HAL falls under the same corporate umbrella (Carnival) as Princess, Cunard, and P&O, all of which prohibit smoking on verandahs, and Seabourn, which is now limiting smoking on verandahs to only two suite categories (better than before - would like to see it banned on all verandahs though) ... and yet HAL says "they will revisit this policy as attitudes toward smoking continue to change". Guess what, HAL ... am pretty sure those attitudes changed several years ago so why are you digging your heels in the sand? :confused:

 

Seabourn's policy is a little more relaxed on half the fleet:

 

ON SEABOURN PRIDE, SPIRIT & LEGEND:

Smoking is permitted on the private verandas of guest suites in Categories CS and OW (Smoking is not permitted on the balconies of B category suites).

Inside smoking of cigarettes is permitted in the port-side half of the forward observation lounge on Deck 8 after 8 PM.

Outside smoking of cigarettes, cigars and pipes is permitted on the starboard half of the Sky Bar on Deck 8, including the bar stools, except during luncheon and dinner service in that location. During those hours only, smoking is permitted on the aft section of Deck 8.

ON SEABOURN ODYSSEY, SOJOURN & QUEST:

Inside smoking of cigarettes will be permitted in the port-side half of the Observation Bar on Deck 10 after 8 PM.

Outside smoking of cigarettes is permitted:

On the verandas of guest suites

On the starboard half of the Sky Bar on Deck 9 including the bar stools

On the starboard half of the open terrace aft of The Club on Deck

 

I'm sure there have been many studies done on this and I guarantee if HAL or Seabourn were not seeing a positive revenue stream from smokers it would have been stopped long ago.

Just doing my part to make sure we hit the"required" three pages. :)

[sail7seas]

 

<snip>

 

This was their response:

Thank you for the email regarding your ms Zuiderdam sailing departing February 14, 2014.

 

We understand your concerns regarding smoking on board and truly regret any negative impact this had on your recent sailing. We endeavor to keep up with current trends and to balance the needs of both our smoking and nonsmoking guests. Currently, our policy is to allow guests to smoke on their stateroom verandahs and designated areas on deck as well as in the casino if actively playing; cigar and pipe smoking is restricted to outside decks and verandahs. However, guest input is always welcome and as attitudes toward smoking continue to change we will revisit this policy with comments such as yours in mind.

 

Thank you once more for contacting our office and bringing your issue to our attention. Mariners like you are the core of our business and the reason we continue sailing and we hope we will have another opportunity to welcome you on board in the very near future.

 

Best regards,

 

Rebecca Reichel

Special Advisor

Office of the President

---------------

 

The take-away for me is that if enough people voice an opinion, HAL will listen (just like they did with the wine policy). You be the judge.

 

 

 

tinlizzie123

 

Perhaps if everyone who is against smoking on balconies wrote and told HAL they might change the policy. I sent a letter to HAL complaining about smoking on balconies and telling them they were in danger of becoming a floating ashtray. I asked that my letter be forwarded to the President's office. Got a reply back saying that "guest input is always welcome and as attitudes toward smoking continue to change we will revisit this policy with comments such as yours in mind". So...let them know how you feel, I am sure a lot of you have already done that but if you haven't let them know.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Hmm, Sounds like you got the same or similar form letter that Zelker received. Too bad they haven't at least updated the form letter if not the non-smoking policy.

 

Edited February 28, 2014 by sail7seas

[GlennG]

I am sorry if this is a repeat of a question on the topic of smoking, but CC search is "broken" and I thought I would simply post this question here....

 

Considering a last minute March or April Caribbean cruise on HAL, and have never sailed her. DH and I are non-smokers. On Celebrity they do not allow smoking on balconies, cabins or even the casino. They only allow smoking in a couple of select spots. So that policy was great for us, but I am considering trying a new line for a change of scenery. But truthfully am worried about HAL's smoking policy as I thought it was much more lenient than some other lines.

 

So, I guess my question to you seasoned HAL cruisers, is how is the smoke situation on board?

 

My wife and I were recently on a Caribbean Cruise with the Maasdam. We had a verandah suite, and are non-smokers. Our neighbours were smokers and used their verandah for smoking. When the ship was in port, the second had smoke bothered me. I discussed our problem with my neighbours, and they agreed to smoke only while the ship was at sea. The resulting wind blew away the smoke, and we were not bothered. The discussion, and compromise was a "win-win" for both parties. I don't know what we would have done if our neighbours refused to compromise. As they stated, they were completely within their rights to smoke on their verandah. In fact, they paid a premium to be able to smoke on their verandah.

[luv4cruises]

This is the most offensive sentence of HAL's official response. A smoking policy should have nothing to do with attitudes when scientific evidence has proven that smoking and second hand smoke are hazardous to our health!

 

In addition to the health hazard it is a fire danger as I believe one of the Princess Ships had a fire caused by a cigarette flicked overboard and then flew back to the ship. That is when, I believe, Princess instituted their new smoking policy.

 

The health well-being, comfort, and safety of her guests trumps any consideration of "attitudes" toward smoking in the 21st century with so much scientific evidence proving the hazards of smoking and second hand smoke!

[CHOPPERTESTER]

Although the beautiful Promenade Deck is not listed as one of the outdoor decks where smoking is permitted, there are ashtrays around the entire deck.

 

The aft pool also can be uncomfortable. The outside railing had portable ash trays attached.

 

Unfortunately on HAL's Vista and Signature class ships the Casino is adjacent to the Piano Bar and the Northern Lights Night Club. You can't help being exposed to the smoke in order to access these places.

 

On the promenade deck : Read the policy again, carefully, about designated smoking areas. They do not have to be in a list.

 

On the aft pool area : The starboard side by the sea view bar is a designated smoking area. Very large deck back there.

 

Last time I looked you do not have to go through the Casino to get to the Piano Bar or the Northern Lights Disco.

 

You seem to keep putting yourself in harm's way when you clearly have options.

[doublebzz]

My wife and I were recently on a Caribbean Cruise with the Maasdam. We had a verandah suite, and are non-smokers. Our neighbours were smokers and used their verandah for smoking. When the ship was in port, the second had smoke bothered me. I discussed our problem with my neighbours, and they agreed to smoke only while the ship was at sea. The resulting wind blew away the smoke, and we were not bothered. The discussion, and compromise was a "win-win" for both parties. I don't know what we would have done if our neighbours refused to compromise. As they stated, they were completely within their rights to smoke on their verandah. In fact, they paid a premium to be able to smoke on their verandah.

 

A very sensible and understanding compromise by all parties concerned. As a one cigar a day smoker, I would have no problem with HAL adopting a policy that permits verandah smoking only when the ship is at sea.

[Sir PMP]

One can draw their own conclusion to how strict the smoking policies are on HAL. However, if you happen to have a veranda you might find yourself with a cigar smoker on one side and a cigarette smoker on the other side and they would both be totally within their rights to puff away. As to casino, they have tightened up the rules by technically allowing only those who are gambling to smoke. But the reality is that HAL casinos generally smell like dirty ashtrays....with attempts to cover the tobacco smell with various chemicals used in the carpet. We regularly cruise on HAL and simply avoid the casino, hope we get lucky if we pay for a veranda, and try very hard to find a place on deck that only smells of the fresh sea air.

 

Hank

 

And that's the problem that you still will find pockets with smokers, they refuse to go to other smoking lines and want to sick us with their sick habits..

[Sir PMP]

What does a smoker look like? I'm really curious.:rolleyes:

 

 

They smell, their clothes smell, but they probably don't notice that until their doctor tells them to stop or ...

[SargassoPirate]

My wife and I were recently on a Caribbean Cruise with the Maasdam. We had a verandah suite, and are non-smokers. Our neighbours were smokers and used their verandah for smoking. When the ship was in port, the second had smoke bothered me. I discussed our problem with my neighbours, and they agreed to smoke only while the ship was at sea. The resulting wind blew away the smoke, and we were not bothered. The discussion, and compromise was a "win-win" for both parties. I don't know what we would have done if our neighbours refused to compromise. As they stated, they were completely within their rights to smoke on their verandah. In fact, they paid a premium to be able to smoke on their verandah.

 

A can of air freshener sprayed liberally on your balcony but aimed toward their balcony might be the next step.

[zelker]

As a one cigar a day smoker, I would have no problem with HAL adopting a policy that permits verandah smoking only when the ship is at sea.

 

Yeah, that's a great idea ... until the smoke blows into your verandah because the smoker is upwind. :rolleyes: I just encountered that several times and had to turn around and go back inside instead of being able to enjoy the verandah I had paid for. Sorry, but IMHO that's NOT an acceptable solution.

[cruisemom42]

This is the most offensive sentence of HAL's official response. A smoking policy should have nothing to do with attitudes when scientific evidence has proven that smoking and second hand smoke are hazardous to our health!

 

The health well-being, comfort, and safety of her guests trumps any consideration of "attitudes" toward smoking in the 21st century with so much scientific evidence proving the hazards of smoking and second hand smoke!

 

But...smoking is still not illegal.

 

And where does the HAL responsibility stop? Alcohol is bad for you except in moderation -- should HAL stop serving it? Gambling is addictive -- should HAL get rid of its casinos? And probably more hazardous even than second-hand smoking is obesity -- should HAL stop making it possible for folks to overeat significantly on their ships?

 

Personally, I'd be happy if smoking were made illegal. My parents would quit. But I find it surprising that very few people seem to focus on this and just keep insisting that a legal activity be banned....

 

 

Yeah, that's a great idea ... until the smoke blows into your verandah because the smoker is upwind. :rolleyes: I just encountered that several times and had to turn around and go back inside instead of being able to enjoy the verandah I had paid for. Sorry, but IMHO that's NOT an acceptable solution.

 

And that is it in a nutshell. Non-smokers will never be willing to compromise. :cool:

 

I wonder who all these folks are who sit on their balconies and smoke nonstop? My parents may go wild and smoke half a pack a day on a cruise (they smoke less than that at home). It takes, on average, 7 minutes to smoke one cigarette. So -- if you can't use your balcony for about 70 minutes per day, your cruise is ruined??

 

I know this is a hot topic, and believe me, I am not pro-smoking. But I hope HAL will not ban smoking on balconies without providing some reasonable alternative -- at least not until my octagenarian parents are too old to cruise any longer.

[doublebzz]

You are probably wasting your time cruising. Those persons with such extraordinary olfactory nerves that they can sense smoke in a blowing wind could probably earn a fortune detecting truffles in the forests of Burgundy.

[kjw869]

You are probably wasting your time cruising. Those persons with such extraordinary olfactory nerves that they can sense smoke in a blowing wind could probably earn a fortune detecting truffles in the forests of Burgundy.

 

Bingo!! That is hilarious!!!

[chrispb]

:

you are probably wasting your time cruising. Those persons with such extraordinary olfactory nerves that they can sense smoke in a blowing wind could probably earn a fortune detecting truffles in the forests of burgundy.

 

:d:d:d

[cbr663]

And that's the problem that you still will find pockets with smokers, they refuse to go to other smoking lines and want to sick us with their sick habits..

 

 

Yeah, that's a great idea ... until the smoke blows into your verandah because the smoker is upwind. :rolleyes: I just encountered that several times and had to turn around and go back inside instead of being able to enjoy the verandah I had paid for. Sorry, but IMHO that's NOT an acceptable solution.

 

But HAL is a smoking line. That is where you would expect to find smokers. We all are making the choice to sail on HAL knowing that it allows smoking on its ships. I find it difficult to comprehend how you can book a cruise knowing this when smoking bothers you so much? If you are looking for a smoke free experience, clearly, HAL is not the line that provides that experience.

[luv4cruises]

Hal should modify their advertising and own up to the fact that they are not "really" committed to the health, well-being, and safety if all of her guests and are willingly acting in contradiction to all scientific evidence and reasonable safety measures in continuing to allow smoking on balconies.

 

As stated by another poster in one of the numerous previous threads, HAL is no longer living up to her "Signature of Excellence".

 

By the way smoke is pervasive. One can see the casino from the Piano Bar so it is close enough to encounter unwanted smoke when entering. The Northern Lights Entrance is adjacent to the casino. The smell of smoke can still be a problem even when entering from the midship hallway.

 

Hoping for at least smoke free balconies and a smoke free Promenade Deck.

[sail7seas]

But...smoking is still not illegal.

 

And where does the HAL responsibility stop? Alcohol is bad for you except in moderation -- should HAL stop serving it? Gambling is addictive -- should HAL get rid of its casinos? And probably more hazardous even than second-hand smoking is obesity -- should HAL stop making it possible for folks to overeat significantly on their ships?

 

Personally, I'd be happy if smoking were made illegal. My parents would quit. But I find it surprising that very few people seem to focus on this and just keep insisting that a legal activity be banned....

 

 

 

 

And that is it in a nutshell. Non-smokers will never be willing to compromise. :cool:

 

I wonder who all these folks are who sit on their balconies and smoke nonstop? My parents may go wild and smoke half a pack a day on a cruise (they smoke less than that at home). It takes, on average, 7 minutes to smoke one cigarette. So -- if you can't use your balcony for about 70 minutes per day, your cruise is ruined??

 

I know this is a hot topic, and believe me, I am not pro-smoking. But I hope HAL will not ban smoking on balconies without providing some reasonable alternative -- at least not until my octagenarian parents are too old to cruise any longer.

 

 

Not every smoker has the same smoking pattern as your parents.

There are a number that smoke far, far more than half a pack a day. To assume all stop at that (still undesireable) number of cigarettes a day would be to make an incorrect assumption. Without question, there are still the three packs a day smokers.

 

Most adult smokers today are the hard core who smokers who will not likely ever give up cigarettes. Most who have any plan to quit have already done so or are attempting it. To suggest that is the key to having HAL verandahs smoke free in order for neighbors to not be subjected to the fumes is a fantasy.

 

Edited March 1, 2014 by sail7seas

[Aussiepair]

Yeah, that's a great idea ... until the smoke blows into your verandah because the smoker is upwind. :rolleyes: I just encountered that several times and had to turn around and go back inside instead of being able to enjoy the verandah I had paid for. Sorry, but IMHO that's NOT an acceptable solution.

 

 

My wife and I spent 14 days on the Nieuw Amsterdam with a cigar smoker in the cabin in front of us. We could not use the balcony at all even when doing 20 knots and our balcony looked like an ashtray. Only solution if you want a balcony is to cruise with someone else, we have chosen Celebrity.

[Salsa49]

My wife and I spent 14 days on the Nieuw Amsterdam with a cigar smoker in the cabin in front of us. We could not use the balcony at all even when doing 20 knots and our balcony looked like an ashtray. Only solution if you want a balcony is to cruise with someone else, we have chosen Celebrity.

 

We have been following this verandah smoking theme on cc for some time now. We do not smoke and are no longer used to being around smokers. We are trying not to be concerned but with comments like this it is hard not to be. We have cabin 8167 on the Nieuw Amsterdam and want to use our balcony on our Mediterranean cruise. How many agree with the previous post?

Thanks.

[SeaWatch]

Can you provide that mailing and/or email address?