A Reason To Keep Passports In Your Safe

[Hlitner]

Ok, lets inject a little sanity to this fascinating discussion while also giving credence to everyone's point. We can all agree that not having your Passport, when you need it, is a real problem (nobody will argue this point). We can also agree that replacing a lost or stolen Passport, in an emergency, is a royal pain and can take several days (especially if this happens on a weekend or holiday).

 

So, then the only question comes down to this. Which option, carrying your Passport, or leaving it locked in a safe, gives the most favorable risk-benefit. And we submit that it just depends on the circumstances. If I am renting a car in Europe on a port day, and plan on driving a long distance from the port, I might prefer to carry my Passport because I am vastly increasing the risk that we will miss the ship. On the other hand, if we are on a Greek Island and plan on going to the beach, we would leave our Passports locked on the ship because there is no safe way we can have those Passports on the beach. Likewise, if we are in a place like Barcelona and plan on spending the day in the city, there is no way I would carry my Passport because the risk of theft are outweighs the chance we would need our Passport. But, we do always carry a photocopy of our main Passport page which can be helpful if you did get stranded without a Passport (the copy makes it a little easier and faster to get a replacement and also helps as a form of ID).

 

So we submit that there is no "fits all circumstances" answer to the question. One needs to use common sense (we like to call it "travel sense")...which is a good idea anyway. Forty plus years of extensive international travel (on both land and many cruises) has taught us that we prefer not to carry our Passports unless we have a specific compelling reason where we might need it (or them). While there are certainly some circumstances where folks would have been better off if they had their Passport, we personally know of many cases where folks had their Passports "lifted" off their person while traveling. When I have to carry my Passport in a foreign land, they are normally in a special Passport holder that stays under my shirt! But it is honestly not the most comfy thing and if wearing a T-shirt or golf shirt can look a little strange. But we still take that precaution. As we mentioned before, it is beaches that seem to cause the most problems (many of the cases we know where Passports were stolen happened on beaches). We actually have a waterproof "fanny pack" that could hold Passports while we swim, snorkel or SCUBA, but I just do not trust that device 100% to keep my Passports dry. Failure to properly seal the plastic bag/holder (and this has happened too many times) or just an unexpected leak, would quickly ruin our Passports. And then there is always the slim chance that the nylon fanny pack strap could break (while we are underwater) and all would be lost :(. So again, it comes down to risk/benefit.

 

Now we would interject one other point (very important) for cruisers that is often not known or ignored. When you leave your ship in any port, you should know the name of the local Port Agent and how to contact them (usually a phone number). This info is always given to passengers (either in the daily schedule or in some type of Port handout) but most ignore that info. But if you have this info, and know you will miss the ship (or be late) you should immediately contact the Port Agent and explain the circumstances. A Port Agent representative is always one of the last persons to leave the ship before they depart...and they will relay any message to senior officers.

 

And my final comment is a big criticism of all the cruise lines! We are now in an age when most folks have access to cell phones almost anywhere in the world. And yet, in nearly all cases, cruise ships will not provide an emergency phone number that one can use to reach the ship. Some lines, like RCI/Celebrity do put an emergency number on their seapass cards...but it is a USA phone number. While this can work (because they would contact the ship) it would be nice to have a phone number that can immediately connect you to the Guest Relations office on your own ship. We have asked (and begged) for a phone number on many cruises, usually to no avail.

 

Hank

[sloopsailor]

Poor wassup4565! You are getting hammered here. If you could only provide some statistics to prove that leaving your passport in the room safe was not the best course of action, perhaps you could gain some sympathy. So, in the hope of helping my fellow man, here is a statistic you can use on the next thread on this topic:

 

4,252 people on one recent cruise had to deal with the challenges of replacing their passports because they became separated from their ship while their passports were tucked safely in their room safes. These were passengers and crew on Costa Concordia, who all lost their passports when they had to abandon ship. If these people had only kept their passports with then even while on the ship, they would have avoided the hassle of replacing their passports.

 

There. I hope you can use this on the next thread to support your argument that it is ALWAYS better to have your passport with you at all times.

 

You're welcomed.

Edited March 14, 2014 by sloopsailor

[smeyer418]

Poor wassup4565! You are getting hammered here. If you could only provide some statistics to prove that leaving your passport in the room safe was not the best course of action, perhaps you could gain some sympathy. So, in the hope of helping my fellow man, here is a statistic you can use on the next thread on this topic:

 

4,252 people on one recent cruise had to deal with the challenges of replacing their passports because they became separated from their ship while their passports were tucked safely in their room safes. These were passengers and crew on Costa Concordia, who all lost their passports when they had to abandon ship. If these people had only kept their passports with then even while on the ship, they would have avoided the hassle of replacing their passports.

 

There. I hope you can use this on the next thread to support your argument that it is ALWAYS better to have your passport with you at all times.

 

You're welcomed.

 

in any case between your passport and me I take me and worry about the replacement later. I doubt I would even have the copy as well unless so if you are on the ship do you carry your passport at all times.

If you have time to go back to your cabin(which you will have most times a ship is sinking)...you grab your medicine, your passport and the cash and credit cards out of the safe...

I have a back pack I take along just to carry these things when I am getting on the ship...and if I need them they are my "go" bag.

[greatam]

 

He was very lucky, as the Dominican cop also busted my niece, who was raised in that country, and they both landed up in the cop shop together. She was actually afraid they were both going to end up in cells, but because she speaks the language perfectly and understands the culture, (and is cute, and sucked up big-time, and donated some cash to the police fund) she was able to get them both off.

 

 

You just verified everything I posted except your car wreck happened in the Dominican and my example was Mexico. SAME mentality from officials and criminals. And MORDIDA (a bribe) is rife throughout Mexico and Central America. You even admitted your niece "donated" some cash to the police fund (more like someone's back pocket). And when those officials/criminals see those US passport BOOKS, they figure these are world travelers with MONEY. So the bribe is more than if you just had the passport card (I know the passport card only good in Mexico and Canada for land crossings).

[greatam]

 

And as a final note, those who take the ship's excursions in ports are not immune to theft or loss. Here's a report of 22 cruise ship passengers on a ship tour in Mexico a couple of years ago who were relieved of their valuables, including passports, by armed bandits:

 

http://articles.latimes.com/2012/feb/26/local/la-me-0227-carnival-robbery-20120227

 

And those armed gangs are specifically targeting passports and credit cards. They are paid by the drug gangs for those passports. Cash is OK but they know most people aren't running around with 1000's in cash. And with El Chapo Guzman in jail, the power struggle for drug gang leadership in Mexico is going to get very, very violent rather rapidly. And the power elite in those drug gangs need passports to be able to pass freely back and forth from Mexico to the USA and other parts of the world to control their empire. And part of their empire includes smuggling Asians and Middle Easterners on stolen passports into the USA. The illegals working menial jobs in the USA pay the coyotes about $1000-1500 for escorts WALKING through the desert. The Asians and Middle Easterners pay $15-50,000 for a passport and a RIDE into the USA through a regular border crossing.

 

LEAVE your passport in the safe.

[sjn911]

I used to feel it is better to carry my passport but after reading threads in the past with the same topic and other research I came to the conclusion my passport was better kept on the ship. The huge advantage of having your passport on you is you can leave at your convenience is you miss the ship. On the other hand if your passport is lost or stolen that is a whole new can of worms.

 

I remember reading an article about a passenger on a cruise ship that was mugged and his passport stolen. I am not sure if his sea pass was taken or not but this person reported the theft when he got back to the ship. After doing so he was taken off the ship and had to get a new passport before being allowed back on. I related this story on a similar thread and wouldn't you know it someone posted back that they were on that sailing and gave a few further details. http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1604678&page=3

 

After reading that article and finding out that the cruise ship will actually try to retrieve your passport and leave it with the port agent from this thread and other first hand accounts of the cruise line retrieving stranded passengers passports I concluded I was covered by more situations that could arise on a cruise by leaving it my cabin safe.

 

I have also enrolled in the State Department STEP program. This program will assist you in cases of emergency while overseas including getting a passport replacement.

http://travel.state.gov/content/passports/english/go/step.html

 

Shak

 

That is another great resource thanks..

 

I was pickpocketed oh so easily in 1980 in a casino in Monaco just because I HAD to play one franc and watch it go around..my passport was safely in room..my 80 dollars..then to me a fortune..in French francs was gone as i was watching the numbers and symbols..we really are vulnerable walking around..but again..each situation is for each soul to decide..love this resource and color copy on me with info idea, especially on more safe..not all safe but more safe tour and ship situations...thank you...Sarah

Edited March 14, 2014 by sjn911

[sjn911]

And those armed gangs are specifically targeting passports and credit cards. They are paid by the drug gangs for those passports. Cash is OK but they know most people aren't running around with 1000's in cash. And with El Chapo Guzman in jail, the power struggle for drug gang leadership in Mexico is going to get very, very violent rather rapidly. And the power elite in those drug gangs need passports to be able to pass freely back and forth from Mexico to the USA and other parts of the world to control their empire. And part of their empire includes smuggling Asians and Middle Easterners on stolen passports into the USA. The illegals working menial jobs in the USA pay the coyotes about $1000-1500 for escorts WALKING through the desert. The Asians and Middle Easterners pay $15-50,000 for a passport and a RIDE into the USA through a regular border crossing.

 

LEAVE your passport in the safe.

 

Thanks for your info, especially on current evolving drug war and world issues and thanks for your service...would you eliminate certain Mexico cities and certain Caribbean islands right now? Even though the ships go? I did not do much even in Cabo in 2012... just did not feel right..intuition that day.

Edited March 14, 2014 by sjn911

[sjn911]

Hmm, I seem to have arrived late into a contentious thread. ;)

 

We were actually on an Air Malaysia flight out of KL on the same day as the doomed aircraft & received lots of concerned contacts.

At last, a good reason for Facebook. ;)

 

 

But although the reasons to use the safe are much more compelling than the reason for carrying a passport ashore, I've no doubt that djk's example isn't the only time someone's regretted not taking their passport ashore.

It's all a matter of what you're comfortable with, & a personal choice for anyone who has a reasonable understanding of the risks either way.

 

Some facts, and a lot of opinion, from

 

JB :)

Sure glad you are ok and thanks for the funny quote re looks on a passport..Sarah

[sjn911]

"Thanks for your info, especially on current evolving drug war and world issues and thanks for your service...would you eliminate certain Mexico cities and certain Caribbean islands right now? Even though the ships go? I did not do much even in Cabo in 2012... just did not feel right..intuition that day. " My earlier quote.

 

I perhaps worded this poorly...I know many people and countries do not have the "safety" we North Americans usually enjoy through Grace of God...just anyplace you would exercise the most caution or absolutely say no to of usual cruise ship visited places in Mexico and Caribbean..both the Riviera and other side....of course keeping track of our govt. travel warnings...thanks and understood if not answered..Sarah

Edited March 14, 2014 by sjn911

[mousey]

Sarah,

 

Yes, there are places that I would not want to sail to even if cruise ships sailed there. There are several places in Mexico, for example, that I wouldn't travel to right now. Thankfully, most cruise ships have stopped sailing into those ports.

 

I never want to put our family in danger if I can help it. Yes, you always take a risk every time you leave out your front door :eek: but for the most part, if I know there is serious trouble in a certain area of the world...I stay away. Here in SO CA where I live...I would not venture into certain areas of the city of LA. There is no safe place in the world...but some are safer then others and those are the places I choose to travel to and live in if I can possibly help it. Unfortunately, not everyone has that luxury. I've been watching a T.V. special on Chicago on CNN which proves my point. There are places in Chicago where it is extremely dangerous to move about in because of the major gangs...yet people can't just leave the area because they don't have the financial means. So I'm thankful that I live where I do and that my child doesn't have to face the problems that children in certain parts of Chicago do. In LA it's the same thing, major gang violence in certain areas of the city.

 

So bottom line, no I would not travel to unsafe areas if I have a choice.

[boogs]

in any case between your passport and me I take me and worry about the replacement later. I doubt I would even have the copy as well unless so if you are on the ship do you carry your passport at all times.

If you have time to go back to your cabin(which you will have most times a ship is sinking)...you grab your medicine, your passport and the cash and credit cards out of the safe...

I have a back pack I take along just to carry these things when I am getting on the ship...and if I need them they are my "go" bag.

 

You are so wrong about this! You are always advised to NEVER return to your cabin in case of an emergency. You are ALWAYS advised to go immediately to your muster station. Due to the unknowns in an emergency situation, wandering about the ship trying to get back to your cabin is suicide. Several of the passenger who died in the Costa Concordia disaster were found in or near their cabins, with at least one daughter reporting that her mother went back to her cabin to retrieve something, and never made it out alive.

 

Personally, in an emergency, I would never ever consider going back to my cabin. My life is much more valuable than any document, item of jewelry, or even medication.

[Shorex]

You are so wrong about this! You are always advised to NEVER return to your cabin in case of an emergency. You are ALWAYS advised to go immediately to your muster station. Due to the unknowns in an emergency situation, wandering about the ship trying to get back to your cabin is suicide. Several of the passenger who died in the Costa Concordia disaster were found in or near their cabins, with at least one daughter reporting that her mother went back to her cabin to retrieve something, and never made it out alive.

 

Personally, in an emergency, I would never ever consider going back to my cabin. My life is much more valuable than any document, item of jewelry, or even medication.

 

Not quite. I was recently on a cruise where at the muster drill, the explanation was: at the first alarm, return to your suite; at the second alarm, go to your muster station; at the third alarm, crew will lead you to the lifeboats.

 

The ship was relatively small, about 400 passengers, and there were four muster stations, all in the dining room. As it happens, a color code crew alarm (not the "first" general alarm) was sounded during a dinner (not a drill). There was a small fire in the kitchen and I have never seen the crew move so fast. A few minutes later the all clear was announced.

 

Now, on a ship the size of Concordia, upon hearing the sound of something ripping through the hull of the ship and feeling the tilt of the ship, yes, I would go directly to a lifeboat. When the emergency does not involve a collision, there should be time to follow instructions.

[fortinweb]

Not quite. I was recently on a cruise where at the muster drill, the explanation was: at the first alarm, return to your suite; at the second alarm, go to your muster station; at the third alarm, crew will lead you to the lifeboats.

 

Yes, you are correct. There may be different alarms sounded with different responses required depending on the situation. However, I would argue that if you are told to go back to your rooms and wait, it isn't an emergency, but a cautionary move to prepare passengers for a possible escalation in the seriousness of what may be going on. For instance, the ship looses power and most lights are not working, but the ship is not in danger of collision or sinking. Passengers would be directed to wait in areas where enough auxiliary lighting is available to keep them from tripping over things. Your stateroom may be such a place.

 

But in a serious emergency, such as a fire, collision, or taking on water, I rather doubt they would want people scrambling to their staterooms for personal possessions where they can become trapped if the situation suddenly accelerates, such as the fire or water racing through stateroom hallways, or the lights go completely out, or ship begins to list so much that people become disorientated and panic, resulting in them being trapped and dying.

 

It is always better to run away from danger rather than run towards it.

[ruin4it]

On the last 2 cruises we have been on, (NCL Mediterranean, and Princess Alaska to Beijing) our passports were held by the ship and we were given a copy to take with us when we left the ship.

[Christine Frances]

You are so wrong about this! You are always advised to NEVER return to your cabin in case of an emergency. You are ALWAYS advised to go immediately to your muster station. Due to the unknowns in an emergency situation, wandering about the ship trying to get back to your cabin is suicide. Several of the passenger who died in the Costa Concordia disaster were found in or near their cabins, with at least one daughter reporting that her mother went back to her cabin to retrieve something, and never made it out alive.

 

Personally, in an emergency, I would never ever consider going back to my cabin. My life is much more valuable than any document, item of jewelry, or even medication.

 

In this case the pax were told to return to their cabins until notified, just a precaution you understand as nothing is wrong lol. They were trying to calm people down. Dumb move as the pax were then not notified to go to muster stations until too late. We have a large ziplock bag in the safe into which we put everything, passports, jewellery, extra meds etc and in an emergency we just have one waterproof bag to grab for our valuables. Also doing the ziplock bag trick, it prevents items from being lost in the dark corners of the safe.

[boogs]

We have a large ziplock bag in the safe into which we put everything, passports, jewellery, extra meds etc and in an emergency we just have one waterproof bag to grab for our valuables. Also doing the ziplock bag trick, it prevents items from being lost in the dark corners of the safe.

 

Good idea. Thanks for the tip. :)

[wassup4565]

Very interesting points made by many contributors - thank you all.

 

CruiseMom, yes, I do understand that some ports make tourists more vulnerable to theft. In fact, the CC posters so terrified me before I cruised in the Eastern Med that I spent hours sewing secret pockets inside all the garments I intended to wear on shore in any port. As far as I experienced and heard from other pax on that cruise, there were no attempts at theft anywhere.

 

And of course, I wouldn't leave my bag (with phone, money, credit card and passport) unattended anywhere, even in my own home town.

 

My perspective may somewhat different from others' here. I travel to the US from Canada for cross-border shopping trips several times a year. I can't get into the USA without my actual passport - a photocopy would not suffice. Once inside the US for a day or weekend of shopping at many stores, I have to keep my passport safe so I can get back into Canada. So it's second nature for me to carry my passport and safeguard it when in another country. Perhaps that's why it's hard for me to understand why people are afraid to keep their passports with them. I HAVE to do it if I want to go to the US, and so I've learned how. Doesn't seem that hard to me.

Edited March 15, 2014 by wassup4565

[John Bull]

You are so wrong about this! You are always advised to NEVER return to your cabin in case of an emergency. You are ALWAYS advised to go immediately to your muster station. Due to the unknowns in an emergency situation, wandering about the ship trying to get back to your cabin is suicide. Several of the passenger who died in the Costa Concordia disaster were found in or near their cabins, with at least one daughter reporting that her mother went back to her cabin to retrieve something, and never made it out alive.

"

Personally, in an emergency, I would never ever consider going back to my cabin. My life is much more valuable than any document, item of jewelry, or even medication.

 

Every muster I've attended the instruction is :

Upon hearing the alarm (seven short, one long), go back to your cabin to collect you lifejacket & proceed to muster station - if it's not possible to retrieve your lifejacket, one will be provided.................. "

 

In the light of Concordia, I think a lot would go direct to their muster station - perhaps including us - so unless it happens at night there may not be enough spare lifejackets.

 

Jewellery, passports, money etc shouldn't enter into the equation, but each to their own.

 

JB :)

Edited March 15, 2014 by John Bull

[chipmaster]

Passports and probability...

 

I wonder how many passengers get something stolen ( camera, purse, wallet etc. ) and how many miss the boat.

 

For me personally I schedule my port time carefully never cutting it close. But no matter how I plan there is always a finite probability of theft and loss. If I was a betting man I would say chance of getting my valuable passport stolen is far higher than missing the boat.

 

BTW if I miss the boat the ship knows, will likely go to my room/safe and extract the document. While if I get it stolen in port.. lots of issues when I get back to the port of entry...

 

Now that story of the plane, stolen passports etc. has no relevancy to the larger situation of should you take your passport or not.

[sparks1093]

Very interesting points made by many contributors - thank you all.

 

CruiseMom, yes, I do understand that some ports make tourists more vulnerable to theft. In fact, the CC posters so terrified me before I cruised in the Eastern Med that I spent hours sewing secret pockets inside all the garments I intended to wear on shore in any port. As far as I experienced and heard from other pax on that cruise, there were no attempts at theft anywhere.

 

And of course, I wouldn't leave my bag (with phone, money, credit card and passport) unattended anywhere, even in my own home town.

 

My perspective may somewhat different from others' here. I travel to the US from Canada for cross-border shopping trips several times a year. I can't get into the USA without my actual passport - a photocopy would not suffice. Once inside the US for a day or weekend of shopping at many stores, I have to keep my passport safe so I can get back into Canada. So it's second nature for me to carry my passport and safeguard it when in another country. Perhaps that's why it's hard for me to understand why people are afraid to keep their passports with them. I HAVE to do it if I want to go to the US, and so I've learned how. Doesn't seem that hard to me.

There is a key distinction here- when you are in the US on a land trip you are required to have your passport with you. When people go ashore on a cruise they typically aren't required to have them. Heck in all of the ports in the whti a US citizen doesn't even need a passport for the cruise.

[Hlitner]

There is a key distinction here- when you are in the US on a land trip you are required to have your passport with you. When people go ashore on a cruise they typically aren't required to have them. Heck in all of the ports in the whti a US citizen doesn't even need a passport for the cruise.

 

This is not quite true. Although a Canadian needs their Passport to cross the border, they do not need to carry it once inside the USA. It is the same for US citizens when we go to Canada. We need our Passport or Passport Card to cross into Canada. But once in Canada, if we are staying in a hotel (which is what we normally do) our Passports will be securely locked in the hotel safe.

 

Hank

[sparks1093]

This is not quite true. Although a Canadian needs their Passport to cross the border, they do not need to carry it once inside the USA. It is the same for US citizens when we go to Canada. We need our Passport or Passport Card to cross into Canada. But once in Canada, if we are staying in a hotel (which is what we normally do) our Passports will be securely locked in the hotel safe.

 

Hank

 

It is my understanding that US law requires all non-immigrant visitors to have their documentation in their possession at all times and that is my understanding coming from discussions with Border Patrol Agents.

[sjn911]

Sarah,

 

Yes, there are places that I would not want to sail to even if cruise ships sailed there. There are several places in Mexico, for example, that I wouldn't travel to right now. Thankfully, most cruise ships have stopped sailing into those ports.

 

I never want to put our family in danger if I can help it. Yes, you always take a risk every time you leave out your front door :eek: but for the most part, if I know there is serious trouble in a certain area of the world...I stay away. Here in SO CA where I live...I would not venture into certain areas of the city of LA. There is no safe place in the world...but some are safer then others and those are the places I choose to travel to and live in if I can possibly help it. Unfortunately, not everyone has that luxury. I've been watching a T.V. special on Chicago on CNN which proves my point. There are places in Chicago where it is extremely dangerous to move about in because of the major gangs...yet people can't just leave the area because they don't have the financial means. So I'm thankful that I live where I do and that my child doesn't have to face the problems that children in certain parts of Chicago do. In LA it's the same thing, major gang violence in certain areas of the city.

 

So bottom line, no I would not travel to unsafe areas if I have a choice.

 

Agreed Mousey..it is a combination of the state reports and a couple of ports people mention over and over again and really watching places like Mexico with the drug wars and some severely impoverished places if bad reports keep comming..but I want to stay balanced. We had an avalanche here in a neighborhood in Missoula, Mt, where I got my masters first weekend of March. Two homes, demolished and one fatality because someone snowboarded off course just above them. Anything "violent"can happen day to day and I suppose not kosher to list some ports that just say "no" to one's comfort level.

 

Yes..even smaller places can get gangs one has to be aware of and even a few cowboy bars here..one crosses the street on the way to the nice steakhouse..LOL..thanks for response Mousey.

 

I feel lucky I saw Jerusalem and Cairo when 20. And navigated NYC fairly well alone last May..I love Chicago and have a fond friend memory of 2 visits..one being a wedding..at University of Chicago where they were going. But it would not be safe to navigate how we did as grad students in her sub-let area probably...now...Sigh...Sarah

 

We should never take for granted our relative fortune and safety in accessing safe places in the US or any safer place in a country.

Edited March 15, 2014 by sjn911

[wassup4565]

This is not quite true. Although a Canadian needs their Passport to cross the border, they do not need to carry it once inside the USA. It is the same for US citizens when we go to Canada. We need our Passport or Passport Card to cross into Canada. But once in Canada, if we are staying in a hotel (which is what we normally do) our Passports will be securely locked in the hotel safe.

Hank

Maybe I wasn't clear. Most of these are day shopping trips, and I have to produce my passport to cross the border into the USA. I don't have a hotel room with a safe. Not a chance I would leave anything of value in the car, so I have to carry it with me.

 

I'm used to carrying my passport and keeping it safe now, doesn't bother me. That was my point.

[swsfrail]

Maybe I wasn't clear. Most of these are day shopping trips, and I have to produce my passport to cross the border into the USA. I don't have a hotel room with a safe. Not a chance I would leave anything of value in the car, so I have to carry it with me.

 

I'm used to carrying my passport and keeping it safe now, doesn't bother me. That was my point.

 

I'm sitting here in disbelief. Now you are using an example that has nothing to do with visiting ports during a cruise to support your opinions. I thought you wanted us to stay focused only on cruising? At least that is what you told us to do in your post #93:

 

"And specifically, for our purposes here on CC, how many of those stolen passports were stolen from cruisers on day excursions from their ship? Because that's what we're talking about here."

 

You seem to be changing the requirements of this discussion whenever it suits your argument. I'm getting dizzy with your constantly changing answers! :eek: