Caribbean Princess unable to leave port today :(

[caribill]

Regardless of which terminal they are going to, all ships have to pass the point of the incident, both inbound and outbound. Looking at the map earlier in this thread, the ships going to Galveston do not have to pass the point of the collision itself, but will need to go just south of where it is. The CB needs to actually go past the point of the collision.

 

There's also no guarantee the Magic and Navigator will be allowed back out...

 

Local NBC station had it backwards saying the Carnival and RCCL ships were trying to leave the port.

 

Local ABC station is saying the Carnival embarking passgeners need to find hotel rooms for tonight with no assistance from Carnival finding the room. Also had an interview with some passengers on the RCCL ship waiting to come in. These passengers said they are not minding the extra time on the ship. (No interview with RCCL passengers waiting to embark. I bet they have some choice comments.) Also said that the RCCL ship should dock in Galvestoon within an hour.

[bluesea321]

Given where the bottleneck is, Galveston and Bayport are pretty much identical in terms of how they are being handled. The only difference is that Princess' berth won't be needed in case on of the other ships had to divert for some reason. Regardless of which terminal they are going to, all ships have to pass the point of the incident, both inbound and outbound.

 

There's also no guarantee the Magic and Navigator will be allowed back out...

 

Loonbeam, suggest you look at a map of the Galveston Bay system before you post erroneous information. The "incident" occurred by the Texas City Dike and a ship going to Galveston does not have to pass the point of the incident. The Caribbean Princess would as it is North of the dike.

[bluesea321]

There seems to be various misconceptions in this forum about the Ports of Houston and Galveston, mostly coming from people who live far away, so as a long-time resident of this area I would like to share some thoughts. For whatever it is worth, I have lived in the Houston/Galveston area since 1968. I had a sail boat at the Houston Yacht Club (if you look at the bridge cam of the Caribbean Princess when in Houston you can actually see the Yacht Club, it is that structure straight ahead sticking into the water). Prior to the sailboat I had a motor boat. For years and years I fished and sailed through pretty much the whole bay system. I know Galveston Bay and its weather very well.

 

The Houston Cruise Ship Terminal, where Princess is sailing from, is actually at the Bayport Terminal of the Port of Houston. This terminal is 24 miles further up the Houston Ship Channel than the Galveston Cruise Ship Terminal and a total of 29 miles from the open Gulf of Mexico (to the end of the Galveston jetties). The Galveston terminal is about 2 miles from the Ship Channel and 7 miles total to the open Gulf. Galveston bay is very shallow. According to Wikipedia the average depth is 7 to 9 feet and having sailed it over the years it was not unusual to see pleasure boats hit sand bars or sail boats stuck in just a few feet of water. In 1900 a major hurricane hit Galveston destroying it and killing about 8,000 people. The area was left without a port and in 1911 Houston voted to dredge a channel into the bay to accommodate ships further inland. The channel is 45 feet deep and only 530 feet wide which is not much when two oil tankers are passing each other. This is a very narrow and congested channel; it sees more than 50 ships and 300 barges each day. It is difficult to navigate. As an example I quote form the USCG guidelines: “When two ships meet in the Channel, this effect can turn each of them off-course in a counter-clockwise direction. This poses potential danger to vessels following either ship.”

 

In these forums some people talk about the Houston and Galveston Ports as if they are pretty much the same but as you can imagine it is much more difficult to traverse the extra 24 miles up a narrow channel into the Bayport terminal than it is to dock in Galveston. Galveston and Houston both suffer from fog but it is easier to “escape” from Galveston due to the shorter distance to open water. Yesterday 2 cruise ships were able to escape out of Galveston while the Caribbean Princess could not due to its berth in Bayport.

 

Houston built the Bayport Terminal in 2009 ($108 million) but it sat unused until 2013 as no cruise line wanted to used it. In September 09 Carnival used it briefly after Hurricane Ike damaged the Galveston Port but they did not stay, moving back to Galveston after 2 months. I suspect that traveling way into the bay on the ship channel was a factor. Houston gave Princess several million dollars in “financial incentives” to move from Galveston to Bayport (and has done the same with Norwegian starting in late 2014). That is the reason the Caribbean Princess is using Bayport these days. It is the only ship docking there until Norwegian arrives. I wonder if Princess will reconsider based on the difficulties they have experienced.

 

I live in Houston but if I had a choice I would rather sail out of Galveston even though it is a longer drive for me. Galveston is far easier to “escape from” in case of weather or navigational issues such as collisions or groundings which are more common than most folks may guess. For instance how many know that 6 days prior to the current mishap there was another major barge/ship collision? In this one the ship was pierced, not the barge, luckily because the barge also was carrying fuel oil while the ship was hauling rice.

 

While fog can impact any port getting out of Fort Lauderdale with its 1 mile traverse to open sea is far easier than from ports such as Houston/Bayport.

 

I hope this helps future cruisers…

 

Bluesea321

 

P.S., just in case anyone is wandering, I am retired, worked for an oil company in Houston all these years, and do not have (never had) any connection to Houston or Galveston Port or City management. I am Platinum on Princess, have sailed out of Galveston on the Grand and Crown, and have also sailed on RCCL, Norwegian, Costa and others many times. I just got back from a week on The Royal out of FLL. It seems to me that Princess is cutting too much at the expense of customer satisfaction. When Princess sailed out of Galveston in 2007 (The Grand) it was docking at 4 ports. They now have cut these sailing to 3 ports, as they told me to save on fuel. The Grand with 4 ports was a much better cruise than the Crown with 3, nothing to do with the ships as they are pretty similar.

Edited March 23, 2014 by bluesea321

[Cruzin-K]

I have another cruise booked out of Houston next year on the Emerald. I'm thinking of tacking on a Royal Caribbean cruise before or after, and wonder whether it would be better to do the Galveston cruise first, or the Houston cruise :confused: Which has the least risk of getting me back late, so I don't miss the following cruise :confused:

[WWCJR]

There seems to be various misconceptions in this forum about the Ports of Houston and Galveston, mostly coming from people who live far away, so as a long-time resident of this area I would like to share some thoughts. For whatever it is worth, I have lived in the Houston/Galveston area since 1968. I had a sail boat at the Houston Yacht Club (if you look at the bridge cam of the Caribbean Princess when in Houston you can actually see the Yacht Club, it is that structure straight ahead sticking into the water). Prior to the sailboat I had a motor boat. For years and years I fished and sailed through pretty much the whole bay system. I know Galveston Bay and its weather very well.

 

The Houston Cruise Ship Terminal, where Princess is sailing from, is actually at the Bayport Terminal of the Port of Houston. This terminal is 24 miles further up the Houston Ship Channel than the Galveston Cruise Ship Terminal and a total of 29 miles from the open Gulf of Mexico (to the end of the Galveston jetties). The Galveston terminal is about 2 miles from the Ship Channel and 7 miles total to the open Gulf. Galveston bay is very shallow. According to Wikipedia the average depth is 7 to 9 feet and having sailed it over the years it was not unusual to see pleasure boats hit sand bars or sail boats stuck in just a few feet of water. In 1900 a major hurricane hit Galveston destroying it and killing about 8,000 people. The area was left without a port and in 1911 Houston voted to dredge a channel into the bay to accommodate ships further inland. The channel is 45 feet deep and only 530 feet wide which is not much when two oil tankers are passing each other. This is a very narrow and congested channel; it sees more than 50 ships and 300 barges each day. It is difficult to navigate. As an example I quote form the USCG guidelines: “When two ships meet in the Channel, this effect can turn each of them off-course in a counter-clockwise direction. This poses potential danger to vessels following either ship.”

 

In these forums some people talk about the Houston and Galveston Ports as if they are pretty much the same but as you can imagine it is much more difficult to traverse the extra 24 miles up a narrow channel into the Bayport terminal than it is to dock in Galveston. Galveston and Houston both suffer from fog but it is easier to “escape” from Galveston due to the shorter distance to open water. Yesterday 2 cruise ships were able to escape out of Galveston while the Caribbean Princess could not due to its berth in Bayport.

 

Houston built the Bayport Terminal in 2009 ($108 million) but it sat unused until 2013 as no cruise line wanted to used it. In September 09 Carnival used it briefly after Hurricane Ike damaged the Galveston Port but they did not stay, moving back to Galveston after 2 months. I suspect that traveling way into the bay on the ship channel was a factor. Houston gave Princess several million dollars in “financial incentives” to move from Galveston to Bayport (and has done the same with Norwegian starting in late 2014). That is the reason the Caribbean Princess is using Bayport these days. It is the only ship docking there until Norwegian arrives. I wonder if Princess will reconsider based on the difficulties they have experienced.

 

I live in Houston but if I had a choice I would rather sail out of Galveston even though it is a longer drive for me. Galveston is far easier to “escape from” in case of weather or navigational issues such as collisions or groundings which are more common than most folks may guess. For instance how many know that 6 days prior to the current mishap there was another major barge/ship collision? In this one the ship was pierced, not the barge, luckily because the barge also was carrying fuel oil while the ship was hauling rice.

 

While fog can impact any port getting out of Fort Lauderdale with its 1 mile traverse to open sea is far easier than from ports such as Houston/Bayport.

 

I hope this helps future cruisers…

 

Bluesea321

 

P.S., just in case anyone is wandering, I am retired, worked for an oil company in Houston all these years, and do not have (never had) any connection to Houston or Galveston Port or City management. I am Platinum on Princess, have sailed out of Galveston on the Grand and Crown, and have also sailed on RCCL, Norwegian, Costa and others many times. I just got back from a week on The Royal out of FLL. It seems to me that Princess is cutting too much at the expense of customer satisfaction. When Princess sailed out of Galveston in 2007 (The Grand) it was docking at 4 ports. They now have cut these sailing to 3 ports, as they told me to save on fuel. The Grand with 4 ports was a much better cruise than the Crown with 3, nothing to do with the ships as they are pretty similar.

 

Sorry but Ike hit in September 2008 not 2009. I know as I was on the Caribbean Princess when it hit here and we were on a Canada New England Cruise...had a hard time getting home to Houston when airport was closed for days.

[Loonbeam]

Given that the 2 ships have been held outside the bay system since early this AM, regardless of the actual location of the wreckage, the exclusion zone caused by the incident is definitively affecting Galveston bound ships.

 

I was incorrect in my phrasing, implying the only bottleneck is at the incident site itself, which does mean there may be other options to Galveston based ships that the CB may not have.

 

Because of the recovery operation, a significant zone has been established where ships cannot pass. From the USCG via NBC News:

 

"In all, about 60 vessels, including three cruise ships, were being blocked from moving between the Gulf and Galveston Bay. Officials plan to bring in cruise ships on a case by case basis." My emphasis on the in.

 

Also from the same article... "Another cruise ship was scheduled to depart Sunday but could not sail because cleanup crews wouldn't be able remove the oil from it once it left, Penoyer said." I would assume this would be the CB since no other ships currently in port were scheduled to depart today.

 

"Carnival Corp's Carnival Magic cruise liner was delayed on Sunday, but arrangements were made to dock the ship so passengers could disembark"

 

From BBC News: "A designated travel lane has been established for ships deemed critical to enter Galveston bay and proceed to dock."

 

I did look at a map. Regardless of which port they use, all ships have to pass through the channel connecting the Gulf to Galveston bay. Until very recently, that channel has been closed, presumably to minimize wake disruption to the oil spill. Based on the map linked earlier, the incident occurred in the middle of this pathway less than a few miles from the turn into Galveston port. Also, based on a tidal map, there is a real danger that oil could be drawn into the Galveston channel if it spreads that far. Map relinked below, originally posted by DrSch.

 

 

 

 

Loonbeam, suggest you look at a map of the Galveston Bay system before you post erroneous information. The "incident" occurred by the Texas City Dike and a ship going to Galveston does not have to pass the point of the incident. The Caribbean Princess would as it is North of the dike.

[slc22]

Blue sea, thanks for the info! That is a large number of boats and barges through the ship channel each day. I had no idea of the volume.

 

You mentioned two cruise ships "escaped" from Galveston yesterday? I thought the Navigator and Carnival ship were scheduled to return early this morning, but had to anchor out. Triumph is due to return tomorrow. Only Caribbean Princess had a departure scheduled yesterday was my understanding.

 

Thanks for the logistical details. So informative! You've helped me picture the situation better. Thx!

 

Sue

Edited March 23, 2014 by slc22
Bad typing !

[Colo Cruiser]

People that live far away can form their own opinions with the same facts that that residents have.

 

 

Please tell me what the misconceptions are?

[bluesea321]

Sorry but Ike hit in September 2008 not 2009. I know as I was on the Caribbean Princess when it hit here and we were on a Canada New England Cruise...had a hard time getting home to Houston when airport was closed for days.

 

You are correct. I meant to say 2008 for both the completion of the Bayport Terminal and Hurricane Ike. I tried to correct my original post but the 20 minute time has elapsed. I was in Houston for Ike and while it was not a major hurricane it was hell nonetheless, lots of people without power for 2 weeks or more.

[Loonbeam]

BlueSea, since you know the lay of the land as it were.

 

---First question retracted as I realized the Texas City Dike would block my idea-- Second question still stands.

 

Also, I am hearing that the current incident zone is a 5 mile radius from the collision site, which would cover the edge of the Galveston channel, have they said anything locally?

Edited March 23, 2014 by Loonbeam

[spyro1952]

Geeze, Spyro - why do you feel the need to keep dogging this port?!

 

I hope Princess stays in Texas. There are many passengers that will sail from here.

 

Sue

 

Really?? You think I'm dogging the port with one post?? Not hardly....

[Pam in CA]

I hope Princess stays in Texas. There are many passengers that will sail from here.

Follow the money. Decisions to stay or leave a port have everything to do with profits, regardless of how many passengers are in the region. Princess, and other lines, sail where they can command the highest prices and make the most profit. I would love it if more cruises sailed out of LA since there is obviously a huge market here not to mention it's relatively easy to fly to from anywhere in the US. But that isn't enough for Princess to home port more than one or two ships here in the winter. They make more money elsewhere.

[slc22]

Spyro, I have to apologize.

 

I'm so sorry, but I mixed you up with a poster in the past that has bad things to say about sailing from Texas. Totally my fault - please accept my apology ?

 

Thx,

Sue

[caribill]

Regardless of which port they use, all ships have to pass through the channel connecting the Gulf to Galveston bay. Until very recently, that channel has been closed, presumably to minimize wake disruption to the oil spill. Based on the map linked earlier, the incident occurred in the middle of this pathway less than a few miles from the turn into Galveston port. Also, based on a tidal map, there is a real danger that oil could be drawn into the Galveston channel if it spreads that far. Map relinked below, originally posted by DrSch.

 

 

The arrow points to where the collision is. Cruise ships going into Galveston pass south of this point, south of the Texas City dike which is what sticks out from the land on the left to almost where the collision is.

 

Thus, the cruise ships going into Galveston pass near, but not through the actual area of the collision. The CB has to pass through that area of the collision to reach the sea.

[spyro1952]

Spyro, I have to apologize.

 

I'm so sorry, but I mixed you up with a poster in the past that has bad things to say about sailing from Texas. Totally my fault - please accept my apology ?

 

Thx,

Sue

 

Sure, Sue. No problem.

[greenie082756]

I was looking into taking a cruise out of Texas however what I have read on CC has left me with the impression that it is challenging to say the least. I wanted a place close so I wouldn't have to pay so much in air fare. Heck our cruise coming up in Port Everglades (7 nights) is just 20% more than our plane tickets and hotel room for one night. That's why I was looking @ Texas as a possibility. Embarking out of LA was nice and air fare was reasonable.

I do hope that the passengers are able to get on with the cruise and have a great time. Wishing them the best... :)

[Vexorg]

I have to think this is going to end up being a nail-in-the-coffin for Bayport as a feasible cruise terminal. I suspect that between all the weather delays and this every line that sails out of there is probably taking overall losses on their sailings there.

Edited March 24, 2014 by Vexorg

[bluesea321]

While any oil spill is bad, this one is turning out to be a major disaster for this area. Here is a link to the Houston Chronicle regarding the latest, 7:23 pm CDT. The pictures look really sad. The oil sheen seems to be much larger than originally anticipated.

 

http://www.chron.com/news/houston-texas/houston/article/Texas-City-dike-closed-after-barge-and-ship-5341213.php?cmpid=htx#photo-6062680

 

Also for those interested here is a link to a USCG publication called "Navigating the Houston Ship Channel, a reference for commercial users" which shares lots of info on the channel.

 

http://www.uscg.mil/vtshouston/docs/Houston_Ship_Channel_Brochure.pdf

 

bluesea321

[RickSue]

I would never sail out of Houston again. We came in a day early due to fog - could have been a lot worse (like today!). However, it's too iffy - way too chancy and I hope Princess realizes what a mistake they made with this port.

[matj2000]

I cannot believe the ship is still there.

Have they said what they are going to do?

[Pam in CA]

Except for the barge/ship collision, these are the same issues that people were complaining about years ago when Princess was sailing from Galveston: fog and ship delays. Many were thrilled when Princess decided to sail from Galveston again but it's the same old, same old. :(

[chris2597]

I was looking into taking a cruise out of Texas however what I have read on CC has left me with the impression that it is challenging to say the least. I wanted a place close so I wouldn't have to pay so much in air fare. Heck our cruise coming up in Port Everglades (7 nights) is just 20% more than our plane tickets and hotel room for one night. That's why I was looking @ Texas as a possibility. Embarking out of LA was nice and air fare was reasonable.

I do hope that the passengers are able to get on with the cruise and have a great time. Wishing them the best... :)

 

 

Don't rule out Texas. We have sailed several times out of Galveton with no problems. This spill thankfully is very unusual. There doesn't seem to be the issues going out of Galveston. Bayport is a well organized terminal with very helpful employees, but weather and now this is discouraging. It is a shame that this may hurt the success of this port.

[Colo Cruiser]

[chipmaster]

Latest news 72 delay and hundred% refund and cruise credit of 25 % on next cruise.

 

Princess way to go!

[Cruise Junky]

Latest news 72 delay and hundred% refund and cruise credit of 25 % on next cruise.

 

Princess way to go!

 

Nice way to handle it. Well done Princess