Muster drill question... Please dont flame me!

[BeagleOne]

 

Personally, it does not matter where I am, a hotel, a movie theater, mall, ship, airplane, as soon as I enter, the first thing I do is find the ways out.

 

I do that too! On airplanes I count the number of rows between me and the nearest exits, keeping in mind that they might be behind me :), so that if visibility is impaired I can count the rows as I go by and at least have some idea of where the exit is. In hotels I plan my route and know where the stairways are. I usually take a small flashlight along, too.

 

It might not help to know where the exits are, or have my flashlight, and I might end up dying anyway, but I like to be prepared as I can be...

[dsrdsrdsr]

But, with all respect, lifeboat drill is not only about just you or me or just about only a few of us. It is about thousands of us whose life might be lost because some have no clue where they should have reported or don't follow directions they are given by those (hopefully) well trained for emergencies.

I never said I wouldn't know where to report. I'm capable of learning where my muster station is without sitting in it for half an hour or more.

 

If the emergency is such that there isn't time for people to be pointed in the right direction, then I don't want to be in a muster station inside the ship - I want to be standing by a lifeboat waiting to be told to get in. But if there is plenty of time to assemble properly at a muster station, then it doesn't matter all that much if some people have forgotten where to go or never knew in the first place.

Edited May 15, 2014 by dsrdsrdsr

[navybankerteacher]

I never said I wouldn't know where to report. I'm capable of learning where my muster station is without sitting in it for half an hour or more.

 

If the emergency is such that there isn't time for people to be pointed in the right direction, then I don't want to be in a muster station inside the ship - I want to be standing by a lifeboat waiting to be told to get in. But if there is plenty of time to assemble properly at a muster station, then it doesn't matter all that much if some people have forgotten where to go or never knew in the first place.

 

The "plenty of time" you mention can be used up by uninformed people trying to figure where to go - with the result that there is not that much time after all.

 

Sure, emergency drills do not accomplish that much, but they do accomplish something. The unfortunate aspect of many of them is that they are conducted in lounges, theaters, etc. rather than at life boat stations - largely because so many ships have insufficient deck space at the stations (HAL and Cunard are exceptions). In those cases there would have to be two stages - getting everyone to the appropriate lounges and only then getting them to life boat stations - in some sort of order, considering the lack of deck space at/near the life boat stations.

[navybankerteacher]

We used to skip the lifeboat muster years ago. Now, we arrive late and suffer through it.

 

Finally, now we know who it is who arrives late, prolonging the attendance process for a couple of thousand fellow passengers. Thanks.

[boogs]

The "plenty of time" you mention can be used up by uninformed people trying to figure where to go - with the result that there is not that much time after all.

 

Sure, emergency drills do not accomplish that much, but they do accomplish something. The unfortunate aspect of many of them is that they are conducted in lounges, theaters, etc. rather than at life boat stations - largely because so many ships have insufficient deck space at the stations (HAL and Cunard are exceptions). In those cases there would have to be two stages - getting everyone to the appropriate lounges and only then getting them to life boat stations - in some sort of order, considering the lack of deck space at/near the life boat stations.

 

Actually, the reason for meeting at an inside muster station is that an assigned lifeboat station may be unavailable due to the ship listing, a fire nearby, blocked access routes, damaged lifeboats or lowering mechanisms, etc. We saw some of these issues with the Concordia disaster. It would only add to the confusion and panic if people went straight to lifeboat stations that were not usable. By meeting at a central location, passengers can be directed to the BEST lifeboat locations for the situation at hand, or in case of a minor emergency, have a place to wait until the situation is resolved or evolves and requires evacuation.

 

During the Star Princess fire in March 2006, instead of going directly to lifeboat stations, passengers went to their muster stations in theaters, restaurants and other public ares, for about seven hours. This was fortuitous because several of the life boats were directly underneath the areas on fire. Imagine the disaster that would have unfolded if people went straight to those lifeboats and the fire spread and trapped them alive.

 

Edited May 15, 2014 by boogs

[ducklite]

I do that too! On airplanes I count the number of rows between me and the nearest exits, keeping in mind that they might be behind me :), so that if visibility is impaired I can count the rows as I go by and at least have some idea of where the exit is. In hotels I plan my route and know where the stairways are. I usually take a small flashlight along, too.

 

It might not help to know where the exits are, or have my flashlight, and I might end up dying anyway, but I like to be prepared as I can be...

 

Me three! I also do the same thing in hotels--making note of where my room is and where the stairs are in both directions. In hotels where all rooms are on one long hallway it's pretty easy--go to either end of the hall and the stairs are the last door on the "x." Where it gets more difficult is in a large hotel with multiple wings and hallways off of hallways--the LAX Hilton and Crescent Court in Dallas are two that I can think of that can get easily confusing.

[ducklite]

I never said I wouldn't know where to report. I'm capable of learning where my muster station is without sitting in it for half an hour or more.

 

If the emergency is such that there isn't time for people to be pointed in the right direction, then I don't want to be in a muster station inside the ship - I want to be standing by a lifeboat waiting to be told to get in. But if there is plenty of time to assemble properly at a muster station, then it doesn't matter all that much if some people have forgotten where to go or never knew in the first place.

 

The only time I've ever had to sit in my muster station for more than 10 minutes or so was due to people who felt they should arrive when they felt like it and held up the entire process. Ironically they were the same ones who cut in line at the shows and buffet. :rolleyes:

[chengkp75]

If the maritime industry really wants to save lives they will find a way to keep the captain onboard until everyone else is off.

 

Anyone who has read my posts over on the two Concordia threads, you will know how much contempt I have for Schettino. And while I have not followed the exact timeline of the Korean ferry incident, I feel the Captain there also failed in his responsibilities.

 

Unfortunately, until you have stared the beast in the eye, no one ever knows whether they will run towards the fire or away. Even the most realistic training does not produce this, as there is the thought in the back of your head that the instructors will not let anything serious happen. This holds true for the military, airline pilots, train engineers, police and probationary firemen, not just the maritime industry. Fortunately, emergencies at sea are not that common, and serious emergencies even more rare, but this leads to situations where many, many mariners pass their entire career without learning how they would react to crises.

 

And as a note, there is no law that says the Captain has to be the last person off the ship, just that the Captain never relinquishes his responsibility for passengers and crew. Granting a man or woman the title of Captain does not magically make them infallible, or the ultimate expert in crisis management. From what I've heard of the Concordia situation, the Staff Captain was far better prepared to deal with the emergency and probably could have saved some lives if the Captain had taken to a boat earlier.

 

While the Captain is in overall charge in an emergency, one of his primary duties, as outlined by most companies' ISM management systems, is to maintain communication between the ship, the shoreside incident commander (in conference between corporate, insurance, and Coast Guard/Navy authorities). There will be an "on-scene commander" who directs the emergency teams directly to deal with the emergency. The Hotel Director is usually charged with conducting the muster of passengers and crew, and checking cabins and public spaces. And the Staff Captain will deal with the operation of the ship and readying the boats. These three will advise the Captain, who will discuss the situation with shoreside (to give him input as to outside assets available to assist), and then make his decisions.

 

Captains can and do make mistakes, just like anyone placed in positions of responsibility for the lives of others. Training helps, experience helps, but the best experience is to plan ways to keep you from getting into an emergency situation in the first place.

[ducklite]

The "plenty of time" you mention can be used up by uninformed people trying to figure where to go - with the result that there is not that much time after all.

 

Sure, emergency drills do not accomplish that much, but they do accomplish something. The unfortunate aspect of many of them is that they are conducted in lounges, theaters, etc. rather than at life boat stations - largely because so many ships have insufficient deck space at the stations (HAL and Cunard are exceptions). In those cases there would have to be two stages - getting everyone to the appropriate lounges and only then getting them to life boat stations - in some sort of order, considering the lack of deck space at/near the life boat stations.

 

I disagree. On Windstar muster was held in the lounge, as it is the central meeting spot on the ship and where they tended to like to herd people for any number of things from shows to wine tastings to shore excursions. There is plenty of room on the deck, but it makes sense for them to do it in the lounge, as the muster captains check everyone off, but then the demonstration is done for everyone at once. With everyone comfortably seated, and a Southwest Flight Attendant type demonstration that offered a lot of humor, it kept everyone's attention and was over with in about 10 minutes.

[boogs]

The only time I've ever had to sit in my muster station for more than 10 minutes or so was due to people who felt they should arrive when they felt like it and held up the entire process.:rolleyes:

 

Do you mean people like the poster in post #48 who "arrives late and suffers through it"?

[sail7seas]

I never said I wouldn't know where to report. I'm capable of learning where my muster station is without sitting in it for half an hour or more.

 

If the emergency is such that there isn't time for people to be pointed in the right direction, then I don't want to be in a muster station inside the ship - I want to be standing by a lifeboat waiting to be told to get in. But if there is plenty of time to assemble properly at a muster station, then it doesn't matter all that much if some people have forgotten where to go or never knew in the first place.

 

 

On All HAL ships, life boat drill is always conducted out, on deck, beneath the life boats. Everyone is instructed to muster at their assigned outdoor station.

 

[ducklite]

Anyone who has read my posts over on the two Concordia threads, you will know how much contempt I have for Schettino. And while I have not followed the exact timeline of the Korean ferry incident, I feel the Captain there also failed in his responsibilities.

 

Unfortunately, until you have stared the beast in the eye, no one ever knows whether they will run towards the fire or away. Even the most realistic training does not produce this, as there is the thought in the back of your head that the instructors will not let anything serious happen. This holds true for the military, airline pilots, train engineers, police and probationary firemen, not just the maritime industry. Fortunately, emergencies at sea are not that common, and serious emergencies even more rare, but this leads to situations where many, many mariners pass their entire career without learning how they would react to crises.

 

And as a note, there is no law that says the Captain has to be the last person off the ship, just that the Captain never relinquishes his responsibility for passengers and crew. Granting a man or woman the title of Captain does not magically make them infallible, or the ultimate expert in crisis management. From what I've heard of the Concordia situation, the Staff Captain was far better prepared to deal with the emergency and probably could have saved some lives if the Captain had taken to a boat earlier.

 

While the Captain is in overall charge in an emergency, one of his primary duties, as outlined by most companies' ISM management systems, is to maintain communication between the ship, the shoreside incident commander (in conference between corporate, insurance, and Coast Guard/Navy authorities). There will be an "on-scene commander" who directs the emergency teams directly to deal with the emergency. The Hotel Director is usually charged with conducting the muster of passengers and crew, and checking cabins and public spaces. And the Staff Captain will deal with the operation of the ship and readying the boats. These three will advise the Captain, who will discuss the situation with shoreside (to give him input as to outside assets available to assist), and then make his decisions.

 

Captains can and do make mistakes, just like anyone placed in positions of responsibility for the lives of others. Training helps, experience helps, but the best experience is to plan ways to keep you from getting into an emergency situation in the first place.

 

Then perhaps they shouldn't allow anyone who hasn't proven themselves in teh face of a crisis the title of Captain.

 

PS--I have proven that I'll run into the flames (OK, it was under a barbed wire fence and waist deep into a snake and who knows what else filled swamp) to rescue someone after an accident. That said, I have no desire to command a ship. Too many passengers complaining that they have to attend muster and can't save pool chairs. :rolleyes:

[chengkp75]

Then perhaps they shouldn't allow anyone who hasn't proven themselves in teh face of a crisis the title of Captain.

 

PS--I have proven that I'll run into the flames (OK, it was under a barbed wire fence and waist deep into a snake and who knows what else filled swamp) to rescue someone after an accident. That said, I have no desire to command a ship. Too many passengers complaining that they have to attend muster and can't save pool chairs. :rolleyes:

 

The problem there is to create enough crises to train people, again, whether they are airline pilots or ship Captains.

[ksqueak]

We have done a great many b-to-b's on HAL and prior to Costa Concordia, we did not have to attend the drill for our second cruise segment and received a letter excusing us. After that terrible incident, we were instructed we had to attend every life boat drill for which we were aboard.

 

This is for cruises sailing into and out of U.S. ports as well as Canada. We did not sail Australia.

 

 

 

 

I did a back to back in Australia and had to attend the 2nd muster drill. I did a shore excursion thru the ship and we were told there was a good chance we'd be late and arrangements had been made for a separate drill for us. BTW - we made it back on time.

[LA_CA_GAL]

Face it, if there is a serious fire on a ship with that many people, there is going to be mass mayhem regardless. Anyone who thinks otherwise is playing a fools game.

 

And what if the fire is contained, (or any other situation) and people need to proceed to their muster stations?

 

I will be prepared and at least know where I need to be, meanwhile you and others can play the fools game of mass mayhem.

[ducklite]

And what if the fire is contained, (or any other situation) and people need to proceed to their muster stations?

 

I will be prepared and at least know where I need to be, meanwhile you and others can play the fools game of mass mayhem.

 

First of all, I don't sail the big ships anymore, only small ones, so no mayhem for me. Second, I go to muster and also familiarize myself with where the lifeboats are on either side of the ship and how to get to them. It seems that you are playing the fools game by sailing wth the masses.

[navybankerteacher]

Actually, the reason for meeting at an inside muster station is that an assigned lifeboat station may be unavailable due to the ship listing, a fire nearby, blocked access routes, damaged lifeboats or lowering mechanisms, etc. We saw some of these issues with the Concordia disaster. It would only add to the confusion and panic if people went straight to lifeboat stations that were not usable.

 

And why would it be less likely that an indoor muster station be unavailable?

 

And even if available, there would still be a possible necessity to relocate. No - passengers do not like having to be on deck, and would prefer to sit in a lounge for the exercise - in addition to the fact that that there is often not sufficient deck space for muster to take place on deck.

[fortinweb]

It seems that you are playing the fools game by sailing wth the masses.

 

Boy, that certainly is an elitist attitude. :eek:

 

I guess you must think you are much better than the rest of us, cruising your small, overpriced luxury ships. :rolleyes:

Edited May 15, 2014 by fortinweb

[Traveller20074]

On the cruises I have done they take attendance. Princess scans your ship card and HAL takes roll call. So I doubt you can skip it. Nor should you. It's mandatory for a reason - all our safety.

 

this.

 

 

 

I also noticed on an airplane, no one listens to the instructions. Delta did something fun...they played a video with comedy in it, and people paid attention.

 

On my first cruise on the Bahamas Celebration, they had the comic lead the drill. I can STILL remember what he said lol

 

 

THIS time, my kids and grandkids will be along. They will be paying attention very closely, if I have my way :)

Edited May 15, 2014 by Traveller20074

[leaveitallbehind]

First of all, I don't sail the big ships anymore, only small ones, so no mayhem for me. Second, I go to muster and also familiarize myself with where the lifeboats are on either side of the ship and how to get to them. It seems that you are playing the fools game by sailing wth the masses.

 

Not sure that smaller ships mean no mayhem. While there may be less passengers, there still will be those who will panic, or react incorrectly with equally less crew on hand to deal with the issue. It's all proportionate.

 

Prepared is prepared, regardless of ship size or where on board muster is held.

Edited May 15, 2014 by leaveitallbehind

[navybankerteacher]

Not sure that smaller ships mean no mayhem. While there may be less passengers, there still will be those who will panic, or react incorrectly with equally less crew on hand to deal with the issue. It's all proportionate.

 

Prepared is prepared, regardless of ship size or where on board muster is held.

 

But such mayhem as may occur will be committed but a much nicer class of passengers.

[ducklite]

Boy, that certainly is an elitist attitude. :eek:

 

I guess you must think you are much better than the rest of us, cruising your small, overpriced luxury ships. :rolleyes:

 

I guess "overpriced" is a subjective term. I don't feel that they are overpriced. For what you get for your money, I think some of the mass market ships are very overpriced.

 

I also don't see it elitist, but rather the truth.

[LA_CA_GAL]

First of all, I don't sail the big ships anymore, only small ones, so no mayhem for me.

 

How incredibly disappointing. :(

 

I guess we shall never meet.:rolleyes:

[boogs]

Not sure that smaller ships mean no mayhem. While there may be less passengers, there still will be those who will panic, or react incorrectly with equally less crew on hand to deal with the issue. It's all proportionate.

 

Prepared is prepared, regardless of ship size or where on board muster is held.

 

And less space for all that mayhem to take place in. Space on smaller ships isn't that much more generous than on the larger ships. The areas around the lifeboats are just as narrow as on larger ships.

[ducklite]

Not sure that smaller ships mean no mayhem. While there may be less passengers, there still will be those who will panic, or react incorrectly with equally less crew on hand to deal with the issue. It's all proportionate.

 

Prepared is prepared, regardless of ship size or where on board muster is held.

 

Wrong. Oasis of the Seas is 3.4 passengers to every one crew member. Windstar and Paul Gauguin are 1.5 passenger to every one crew member. More than double the number of crew to passengers on the small ships.

 

Also count the stair cases. There are as many stair cases on the small ships as there ar on the large ones. One the small ships that means 150 people total per staircase. On the large ships, that's over 2000 per people on each staircase. Just think about that for a minute before you respond.