Noro Virus and Food handlers........

[sail7seas]

Keep washing your hands and keep your hands away from your face but according to a new CDC report, it seems 70% of noro virus is spread by food handlers.

 

I posted this in another thread but think it important enough information it deserves its own thread.

 

While we know there are people who do not practice particularly good hygiene, it appears that food service oversight and food handlers are infecting salads, ready made sandwiches, cookies..... all those ready to eat foods we select on cruise ships (and elsewhere) may not have been made by the clean hands we expect.

 

http://www.cdc.gov/vitalsigns/norovirus/index.html

[wwcruisers]

LOL Sail7Seas -- reminds me of that old quote: "we have met the enemy, and he is us". ;)

 

I think I saw the same news blurb that you did, on Noro being spread by food handlers -- many of whom come to work sick, because they are afraid they will lose their jobs, if they call-in. I used to wonder whether cruise ship employees did the same. But, BruceMuzz (our cruise ship "insider" on this board) said that his line strictly quarantines employees with gastrointestinal symptoms. According to Bruce, their pay and tips are protected while they recuperate -- but, those who hide their Noro symptoms to avoid quarantine can face immediate termination. :eek:

 

So, at the top of the "Typhoid Mary"list, we now find the people we had suspected all along: those folks serving themselves in line at the buffet. You know, the ones who rush in from the bathroom without washing their hands, and then put the spoon back in the serving tray, AFTER they've licked it and/or dropped it on the floor. :rolleyes:

Edited June 4, 2014 by wwcruisers

[Mytime2014]

Keep washing your hands and keep your hands away from your face but according to a new CDC report, it seems 70% of noro virus is spread by food handlers.

 

I posted this in another thread but think it important enough information it deserves its own thread.

 

While we know there are people who do not practice particularly good hygiene, it appears that food service oversight and food handlers are infecting salads, ready made sandwiches, cookies..... all those ready to eat foods we select on cruise ships (and elsewhere) may not have been made by the clean hands we expect.

 

http://www.cdc.gov/vitalsigns/norovirus/index.html

 

 

I can see that common sense makes news yet again, must be a slow news day

crud, I was just about to go to a salad bar for lunch

[all seriousness aside, I typed salad barf or lunch]!!!

[sail7seas]

wwcruisers

LOL Sail7Seas -- reminds me of that old quote: "we have met the enemy, and he is us".

 

I think I saw the same news blurb that you did, on Noro being spread by food handlers -- many of whom come to work sick, because they are afraid they will lose their jobs, if they call-in. I used to wonder whether cruise ship employees did the same. But, BruceMuzz (our cruise ship "insider" on this board) said that his line strictly quarantines employees with gastrointestinal symptoms. According to Bruce, their pay and tips are protected while they recuperate -- but, those who hide their Noro symptoms to avoid quarantine can face immediate termination.

 

So, at the top of the "Typhoid Mary"list, we now find the people we had suspected all along: those folks serving themselves in line at the buffet. You know, the ones who rush in from the bathroom without washing their hands, and then put the spoon back in the serving tray, AFTER they've licked it and/or dropped it on the floor.

 

 

That brings us back to the concept that an infected person can shed noro virus and spread it before they even know they are ill. If food handlers have not yet suffered the symptoms but have not washed their hands well/handled the food properly, they could unknowingly be responsible for contamination. No?

 

Edited June 4, 2014 by sail7seas

[sail7seas]

LOL Sail7Seas -- reminds me of that old quote: "we have met the enemy, and he is us". ;)

 

<snip>

 

 

I just noticed that was your 5,555 post. Congratulations.

Do you have a lottery in WA? Maybe you should give the number a 'go'. :)

 

Edited June 4, 2014 by sail7seas

[Mytime2014]

so keep washing your hands because not everyone ever has symptoms...

 

from http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/rr6003a1.htm

 

Clinical Features

 

Noroviruses cause acute gastroenteritis in persons of all ages. The illness typically begins after an incubation period of 12--48 hours and is characterized by acute onset, nonbloody diarrhea, vomiting, nausea, and abdominal cramps. Some persons might experience only vomiting or diarrhea. Low-grade fever and body aches also might be associated with infection, and thus the term "stomach flu" often is used to describe the illness, although there is no biologic association with influenza. Although symptoms might be severe, they typically resolve without treatment after 1--3 days in otherwise healthy persons. ...

...up to 30% of norovirus infections are asymptomatic, and asymptomatic persons can shed virus, albeit at lower titers than symptomatic persons (26--28). The role of asymptomatic infection in transmission and outbreaks of norovirus remains unclear.

[Keith1010]

Thanks for reenforcing the need to wash hands thoroughly and often and while it won't prevent you from getting any and all viruses it is quite effective as is not touching eyes, nose and face.

 

Keith

[floridafish]

washy washy...happy happy.:)

 

I always make it a point to wash my hands after getting my food from the buffet. Handling all those serving utensils is a good way to pick something up.

 

A few years back I took a tour of the kitchen facilities on CC. You talk about a spotless environment. I can assure you that management keeps a tight eye on food service personnel.

Edited June 4, 2014 by floridafish

[sail7seas]

Before I go to the self-serve buffet, I pick up a few paper napkins.

I use those napkins to hold the tongs and serving pieces. I will not touch 'communal' utensils.

 

[BruceMuzz]

Ready to eat foods in buffets are the prime suspects in many NLV cases.

Heating foods to high temperatures and keeping them hot for serving is a great way to kill Norovirus spores.

But that idea doesn't work with things like salads, cold soups, sandwiches, cold appetizers ,and cold desserts.

Buffets are also notorious for failing to keep hot foods as hot as they should be. This encourages growth of viruses.

 

Is it the food handlers / preparers, or the consumers who are contaminating the food on buffets?

Common sense would tell us that it is probably both.

 

But let's look at what Holland America started in their buffets a few years ago. Realizing that buffets are the highest risk areas on a cruise ship, they decided to prevent possibly infected passengers - and people raised by wolves - from touching the food or serving utensils in the buffet for the first 2 days of a cruise.

The rationale was that infected passengers - even those who were not yet aware that they were infected - could not have a chance to contaminate the buffet food until most or all of them were recovered 2 days later.

 

The very same crew members still prepared and handled all the food. Many additional crewmembers were assigned to handle the utensils and serve the food to the passengers. The only other change was that it was protected from contamination by passengers for 2 days.

 

Results?? The number of reported cases of suspected NLV for passengers on HAL ships dropped significantly.

The number of reported cases of suspected NLV for crew on HAL ships remained the same - very low.

The CDC awarded HAL a special commendation for introducing what the CDC called the best NLV prevention scheme in the cruise industry.

 

What does this tell us?

 

#1 - Avoid buffets on ships if you want to avoid contracting Viruses.

#2 - Increasing the number of crew handling and serving food did not increase infections - but actually significantly decreased the numbers.

#3 - Preventing passengers from contaminating food reduces infection numbers.

[OCruisers]

People actually have Noro and can spread it in the incubation stage. They do not even know they have it until the symptoms begin.

LuLu

[sail7seas]

Ready to eat foods in buffets are the prime suspects in many NLV cases.

Heating foods to high temperatures and keeping them hot for serving is a great way to kill Norovirus spores.

But that idea doesn't work with things like salads, cold soups, sandwiches, cold appetizers ,and cold desserts.

Buffets are also notorious for failing to keep hot foods as hot as they should be. This encourages growth of viruses.

 

Is it the food handlers / preparers, or the consumers who are contaminating the food on buffets?

Common sense would tell us that it is probably both.

 

But let's look at what Holland America started in their buffets a few years ago. Realizing that buffets are the highest risk areas on a cruise ship, they decided to prevent possibly infected passengers - and people raised by wolves - from touching the food or serving utensils in the buffet for the first 2 days of a cruise.

The rationale was that infected passengers - even those who were not yet aware that they were infected - could not have a chance to contaminate the buffet food until most or all of them were recovered 2 days later.

 

The very same crew members still prepared and handled all the food. Many additional crewmembers were assigned to handle the utensils and serve the food to the passengers. The only other change was that it was protected from contamination by passengers for 2 days.

 

Results?? The number of reported cases of suspected NLV for passengers on HAL ships dropped significantly.

The number of reported cases of suspected NLV for crew on HAL ships remained the same - very low.

The CDC awarded HAL a special commendation for introducing what the CDC called the best NLV prevention scheme in the cruise industry.

 

What does this tell us?

 

#1 - Avoid buffets on ships if you want to avoid contracting Viruses.

#2 - Increasing the number of crew handling and serving food did not increase infections - but actually significantly decreased the numbers.

#3 - Preventing passengers from contaminating food reduces infection numbers.

 

 

With these facts, many of us would be willing to grant HAL may be an exception to the CDC statement that 70% of NLV is spread by food preparers/handlers. Perhaps they are the exception to the rule?

 

There is not yet any way to totally prevent the contamination and spread of NLV. But being a cruiser who has spent years of my life aboard HAL ships, I do think they do the best reasonable job possible. Yes, I have seen 'slip ups' but none of us are perfect. :)

 

Edited June 4, 2014 by sail7seas

[BruceMuzz]

With these facts, many of us would be willing to grant HAL may be an exception to the CDC statement that 70% of NLV is spread by food preparers/handlers. Perhaps they are the exception to the rule?

 

There is not yet any way to totally prevent the contamination and spread of NLV. But being a cruiser who has spent years of my life aboard HAL ships, I do think they do the best reasonable job possible. Yes, I have seen 'slip ups' but none of us are perfect. :)

 

 

Or could it be the case that in land-based operations only, 70% of NLV is spread by food handlers? They have very lax standards in land based restaurants, and there are no negative consequences for employees who are not clean.

[wwcruisers]

I just noticed that was your 5,555 post. Congratulations.

Do you have a lottery in WA? Maybe you should give the number a 'go'. :)

 

 

Thanks! Since I went over 5K posts, I haven't really paid much attention to the numbers. ;)

[Krazy Kruizers]

This has been all over our TV news stations the last few days.

It is not surprising -- have seen too many food handlers not wearing gloves -- coughing -- sneezing -- you name it.

[Traveller20074]

Before I go to the self-serve buffet, I pick up a few paper napkins.

I use those napkins to hold the tongs and serving pieces. I will not touch 'communal' utensils.

 

 

 

wish I would have thought of that!!!!

 

gooood idea!!

[txflood33]

I have worked in the food industry for 27 years and I am not scared to eat in ANY restaurant....I will avoid buffets and wash all of my produce from the grocery store like it was dropped in a cow pie, though.

 

The human body is an amazing thing....and we as humans think we are smarter and can control quite a bit of it. Some of the control is needed, antibiotics, for example. But some is not, cleaning and sanitizing our children as to never have a germ touch them. Many out there have not given their immune system a chance to develop to it's strongest ability and evolve as we grow. We, as a society, are so terrified of getting a germ on us we shower in Purel every 15 minutes.

 

It's pretty interesting to not only see how viruses have evolved over the last 30 years...since they kept getting beat by hand sanitizer....but how the human body has evolved over the same time frame....as our immune systems never got to practice fighting things off to keep us healthy.

 

I wash my hands regularly, I don't use sanitizer unless required by a health department where I'm working...or if the ship makes me.....I rarely, if ever get sick. I can probably count on 1 hand the times I got sick in the past 5 years....and one of those times was pneumonia and I was only down for 4 days.

 

Don't let the germs dictate your trip or your life. Wash your hands and let your immune system do what it was designed to do.

[John Bull]

 

But let's look at what Holland America started in their buffets a few years ago. Realizing that buffets are the highest risk areas on a cruise ship, they decided to prevent possibly infected passengers - and people raised by wolves - from touching the food or serving utensils in the buffet for the first 2 days of a cruise.

The rationale was that infected passengers - even those who were not yet aware that they were infected - could not have a chance to contaminate the buffet food until most or all of them were recovered 2 days later.

 

Results?? The number of reported cases of suspected NLV for passengers on HAL ships dropped significantly.

.

 

I've experienced exactly the same on two other cruise ships - P&O's Aurora & Thomson Spirit - but in neither case was it the norm for the cruise line, or even for the ship.

I'm guessing that it was down to an outbreak on the previous cruise or some other heightened risk.

Felt very re-assured that it was a good protocol for preventing the noro being spread, wittingly or unwittingly, by passengers joining the ship. After the incubation period and no noro reports it was back to normal.

OK, it's a bit of a chore for passengers & crew for a day or two - but I'd be happy if this were standard procedure.

 

JB :)

Edited June 5, 2014 by John Bull

[wieslaw]

Keep washing your hands and keep your hands away from your face but according to a new CDC report, it seems 70% of noro virus is spread by food handlers.

 

 

Hi,

I read the same CDC report and probably it is an acurate report ...... but out of the 20 million cases ...... how many are / were counted on the cruise ships ..... my guess is a very small procentage.

 

I do trust the food handlers on cruise ships a lot more than my fellow cruisers .... I do believe they wash their hands a lot more than most of the cruise passangers do.

 

I also believe that many, many food handlers on land do go to work even when they are sick ...... many do not make much money and if they do not show up they may / could get dismmised.

 

Wife and I got some sort of a gastro bug with all of the same symptoms as noro ( the doctor on Mariner did not call it Noro) - and we did wash hands many times per day, use the sanitizers, never used public restrooms ..... and we still got it ..... it was not fun.

[OCruisers]

Hi,

 

Wife and I got some sort of a gastro bug with all of the same symptoms as noro ( the doctor on Mariner did not call it Noro) - and we did wash hands many times per day, use the sanitizers, never used public restrooms ..... and we still got it ..... it was not fun.

 

Even the most careful of people still get Noro as the OP will tell you.

Strangely, some people who are extremely exposed don't.

DH had Noro. I was in very close contact while helping him. Fully expected I'd get it but never did.

We spoke with others who also had the same thing happen.

LuLu

[sparks1093]

Or could it be the case that in land-based operations only, 70% of NLV is spread by food handlers? They have very lax standards in land based restaurants, and there are no negative consequences for employees who are not clean.

 

This is what I was thinking.

[swedish weave]

If the virus is spread by food handlers, think of the numbers of people (both passengers and crew) who rush off the ships at every port to EAT !!!

 

That serves to negate many of the preventive measures the cruise lines take to try to control the outbreaks.

[Donray]

I hope people also read in the article that cruise ships account for 1% or less of the cases.

[njmomof2]

I hope people also read in the article that cruise ships account for 1% or less of the cases.

 

I was watching the news just the other day and they were talking about Noro and I did hear that exact same thing. That cruise ship cases are really a very tiny percentage of all cases.

 

It seems that when there is an outbreak it is massive and everyone is down. But overall, against all cases everywhere, it isn't. But when you are the one sick, it's the worst feeling ever.

 

I am of the school that believes a little dirt is a good thing. I was never one who constantly cleaned my kids and Purell'd them to death. Only 2 things got to me and that was 1) icky, runny, snotty noses and 2) filthy fingernails. Still do to this day. But generally dirty hands? Nope. Dropped stuff? I live by the 5 second rule. As a result (at least I think) my kids are really healthy. Rarely sick and when they are, it runs through quickly. Only sick enough for an abx maybe every 2-3 years.

[boogs]

Ready to eat foods in buffets are the prime suspects in many NLV cases.

Heating foods to high temperatures and keeping them hot for serving is a great way to kill Norovirus spores.

But that idea doesn't work with things like salads, cold soups, sandwiches, cold appetizers ,and cold desserts.

Buffets are also notorious for failing to keep hot foods as hot as they should be. This encourages growth of viruses.

 

Is it the food handlers / preparers, or the consumers who are contaminating the food on buffets?

Common sense would tell us that it is probably both.

 

But let's look at what Holland America started in their buffets a few years ago. Realizing that buffets are the highest risk areas on a cruise ship, they decided to prevent possibly infected passengers - and people raised by wolves - from touching the food or serving utensils in the buffet for the first 2 days of a cruise.

The rationale was that infected passengers - even those who were not yet aware that they were infected - could not have a chance to contaminate the buffet food until most or all of them were recovered 2 days later.

 

The very same crew members still prepared and handled all the food. Many additional crewmembers were assigned to handle the utensils and serve the food to the passengers. The only other change was that it was protected from contamination by passengers for 2 days.

 

Results?? The number of reported cases of suspected NLV for passengers on HAL ships dropped significantly.

The number of reported cases of suspected NLV for crew on HAL ships remained the same - very low.

The CDC awarded HAL a special commendation for introducing what the CDC called the best NLV prevention scheme in the cruise industry.

 

What does this tell us?

 

#1 - Avoid buffets on ships if you want to avoid contracting Viruses.

#2 - Increasing the number of crew handling and serving food did not increase infections - but actually significantly decreased the numbers.

#3 - Preventing passengers from contaminating food reduces infection numbers.

 

Thanks, BruceMuzz. I hope you don't mind if I quote what you wrote in one of your posts from another thread on Noro. I thought was especially significant:

 

"It's all about standards.

 

If you work at McDonalds and come to work sick, you get paid.

If you work on a ship and come to work sick, you get fired and sent home at your expense.

 

A few years ago the Amerian Hotel and Motel Association sent their food sanitation training materials to my ship.

We threw them away. The standards in the manuals were so poor that my ship would fail a USPH inspection if we followed them."

Edited June 5, 2014 by boogs