Informal night was misunderstood by most.

[gonnago]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> The formal nights are self explanatory. The 'informal night' should perhaps be renamed as 'semi formal' since it is 'jacket or sports coat' for men.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

On the Ryndam in late May, DH and I and our traveling companions were way overdressed on informal night with him in a suit coat w/o tie and me in a dressy pant suit and heels. I was floored that so many people thought informal meant casual. Some were in jeans, and they were certain that they had interpreted HAL's dress code correctly.

 

On the daily program, IMHO, Hal should spell out what informal means or rename it semi-formal. Too many people don't know this, especially first-time cruisers. I only knew because of reading this board....for which I am very thankful

 

"Thanks to all for your help & advice. Our May 28th cruise was much better for it!"

[WindyCity]

Guess most people don't read the "Know Before You Go" booklet. The dress code is spelled out there.

 

Westerdam Eastern Caribbean 12/12/04

 

[ekerr19]

WindyCity-

 

That's exacly what I was thinking when I read this post! I can't say I've seen jeans on informal night on any of our cruises, but I've not done Alaska yet.

 

gonnago-

 

IMO, you can never be overdressed. Think of everyone else as underdressed!

 

Noordam 1984

Veendam 1999

Amsterdam 2000

Noordam 2001

Statendam 2001

Noordam 2002

Zuiderdam 2003

Maasdam 2004.

Noordam 2004

[bryanwal]

Well I went to the Bon Marche yesterday to buy a nice navy blazer to wear on informal night, so at least I'll be dressed right even if I don't fit in.

 

- Bryan W

Oct 2000 Disney Magic - Eastern Caribbean

Jun 2002 Disney Magic - Western Caribbean

Jul 2004 HAL Oosterdam - Alaska

Feb 2005 Celebrity Mercury - Mexican Riviera

 

Protect your PC!

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[thefer]

Hi

 

I went on the Volendam in early May. On the daily schedule that we received the day before said "No jeans or shorts allowed" for the informal, casual and formal nights.

 

jennifer

[F5Loar]

Informal on HAL and other ships that use that term are becoming a joke. Many think the word means "not"formal. Semi-formal to some means more but some think that means nice shirt and tie and no jacket! It's really funny to sit back and watch the door at what shows up on informal nights. It's down to less than half the men wearing any type of jacket at all and many of those take it off as soon as they sit down. They really should just drop the informal night and put in casual so we can pack one less bulky coat that is only used on one night that nobody including the HAL staff care if you wear it or not. I like to follow the codes but when you get there and find you are out numbered you have to give in and say if you can't lick them join them. Until HAL enforces the dress codes they write it's not going to get any better as the years go on.

And HAL is not alone on this issue. Other lines like Carnival,Princess, NCL, Celebrity,Costa,Disney are just as guilty of not enforcing what they preach. I hope to live long enough to see cruise lines enforce their rules in all areas from dress to smoking.

 

Till we sail on the Zuiderdam

 

Til we sail on the Mariner of The Seas RCL

until we sail on the Disney Wonder

til we sail the ms Maasdam

[camachinist]

IMO, it's never inappropriate to be dressed nicely when entering a dining room. I always dress up (dress pants, collared shirt, sometimes sport jacket) even when entertaining at home. I don't expect everybody to feel that way and enjoy them for what life experience they bring to the table, not the clothes they're wearing. For me, it's the same on a cruise. I can't ever remember going to a dining room not being dressed up. The buffet is another matter, however

 

Having said that, some of my best dining conversations have been with folks dressed in shorts and casual shirts. I only noticed later, when saying goodnight.

 

Good company, good food...what more can a person want?

 

Pat

[c-cruise]

The informal nights are ridiculous, I wish they would get rid of them. Why not just have the two formal nights, have the rest be casual and be done with it. I am not going to drag another sports coat/jacket accross the country just so I can hang it off the back of my chair on informal nights. I will be sticking with my polo shirts and kakis for both casual and informal nights. On 15 cruises I have never yet seen anyone be denied access to the dining room because of what they were wearing. It is just not really that big of a deal.

 

Future Cruises:

- 6/27/04 Sapphire Princess

- 12/12/04 Oosterdam

[Aussie Gal]

We have only cruised on European itineraries and obviously from what I am reading informal nights on European cruises are completely different. We have found that everyone dresses up with a jacket and usually tie for the men and the ladies in very smart outfits, not much different from formal nights. Perhaps on the European itineraries a different type of person cruises.

 

Jennie.

 

The next cruise is always the best!

 

3RD OCTOBER, 2004 PRINSENDAM

[barriedavis]

Just returned from Westerdam from Venice to England. The comment about European cruising appears not to be correct. I decided not to take a separate jacket other than my tux because of plane weight restrictions intending to use the Lido on the three informal nights instead of the dining room. I looked in on one of those nights and there were many without ties, ie polo shirts, some with jeans. It seems that anything goes. Incidentally, there was a rule that if you were not at your table by 15 minutes after your seating time, you would be locked out. Thsi also sems not to apply as people who had been on trips which returned late were coming in up to an hour after their time without protest from the staff. It seems that rules are now suggestions, regardless of what this may do to others, ie. other diners or later sittings, which may be disrupted as a result.

 

Bazzer

[ron46936]

The problem with some people's interpretation of what HAL means by "informal" is that some merely rely upon the English language instead of looking up HAL's special instructions. In the dictionary informal is defined as "casual".

 

I do agree that informal nights should be eliminated. A sport coat is appropriate for casual night if you are so inclined.

[Jacqueline]

Thanks fpr the feedback on the Westerdam... I also am trying to figure out how to pack for a 2 week trip on a ship with no laundry facilites and three children.

I think I will have dh bring his tux and his blazer....My son is another story... A blazer for sure. Last summer he wore it every night from casual to formal on the tahitian princess and it was no problem. Keeping the DR cool keeps the men in dress code.

 

Jacqueline

Constellation 3/20/04

HAL Westerdam 7/30/04

Tahitian Princess August 2003

Grand Princess Western Caribbean 2003

Brilliance of the Seas Baltic 2002

Ocean Princess- Alaska 2001

Celebrity Zenith- Bermuda 2001

Grand Princess Med 2000

[Krazy Kruizers]

In-formal

 

We agree that informal nights should be done away with on 7 day cruises. Now don't get us wrong, we love to dress up and do so whenever we go out for dinner at home.

 

Husband will still take a sports jacket in addition to his tuxedo on short cruises because we do like to eat in the Pinnacle Grill a couple of times and don't always go there on a formal night.

 

On longer cruises, like 21 day cruises, we have found that more people dress up than they do on the shorter cruises.

 

For quite some time we have noticed that HAL has not been addressing the dress code. AND HAL has not been enforcing the "15" minute rule for the dining room.

 

On our last 13 day cruise we watched nearly every evening the same people arrive at 6:40 for their 6:15 dinner time in the lower level. And they always came in the upper level and paraded down the stairs for everyone nearby to see.

 

[RevNeal]

I tend to agree that HAL should adjust their terminology to reflect colloquial usage. In other words, they should rename "Informal" night "Semi-Formal."

 

I know what HAL means by "Informal" because I've read (about a thousand times) the Know-Before-You-Go Booklet, where it outlines proper dress for "Informal Nights."

 

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Comfortable, relaxed clothing is fine for evenings designated as casual; however, T-shirts, jeans, swimsuits, tank tops and shorts are not allowed in the dining room, Lido restaurant, or public areas during the evening hours. During informal nights, dresses or pantsuits for women and jackets (tie optional) for men are standard.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

 

On Informal Nights I wear a suit and tie (or clerics), or I'll wear a pair of dress-slacks, a jacket, and tie (or clerics). I know that the tie is optional, but if I'm not wearing a clerical shirt I much prefer to wear a tie than have the neck open. But ... that's just me.

 

To ease the packing issue (which is a real issue when one's clothing is as big as mine), I'll usually wear a pair of dress slacks and jacket in transit to the ship from home; that way, I'll have informal-night garb and won't have taken up space by packing it.

 

Greg+

Maasdam: Western Caribbean Cruise Pictures

Volendam: Wayfarer Cruise Pictures and Video

Statendam: Hawaii Cruise Pictures and Video

Volendam: Alaska Inside Passage Cruise Pictures

 

 

Until Departure on the MS Zaandam, Panama Canal

<center>

<a href="http://www.escati.com/counter98/free_time_codes.htm">

</center>

[RevNeal]

I noticed last year during my Inside-Passage Alaska Cruise that clothing standards were significantly relaxed compared to the longer cruises I'm used to taking. Allow me to quote from my own review of that cruise relative to Dress Codes:

 

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Dress Code Violations:

 

The Holland America Line has a well defined Dress Code for Formal, Informal, and Casual nights which can be found in the "Know Before You Go" booklet; additionally, the Dress Code for each evening is published in the Daily Program. Despite this, many of the passengers on this particular cruise either ignored the code altogether, or they only poorly observed it. For example, on Formal Nights the number of men dressed in Tuxedos was far lower than I have ever seen on a HAL cruise; a larger number of the men were dressed in dark suits and ties -- which is perfectly fine, and these men looked smart -- but the apparent choice-of-clothing for a great many men on both Formal Nights appeared to be slacks and a blazer ... often with a tie, but sometimes without. Even still, it was not uncommon to see men without jackets, without ties, and even in jeans and t-shirts. Interestingly, the Informal Night Dress Code was more faithfully observed by a larger percentage of men than the Formal Night Code, but Casual nights were a couture nightmare: jeans and t-shirts were out in-force, with shorts and sweat suits being worn even in the Rotterdam Dining Room. Far from "dressy" or "country club casual," this was more a form of "sloppy casual." The women were sometimes better-dressed than the men, but only marginally.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

 

Greg+

Maasdam: Western Caribbean Cruise Pictures

Volendam: Wayfarer Cruise Pictures and Video

Statendam: Hawaii Cruise Pictures and Video

Volendam: Alaska Inside Passage Cruise Pictures

 

 

Until Departure on the MS Zaandam, Panama Canal

<center>

<a href="http://www.escati.com/counter98/free_time_codes.htm">

</center>

[ASM]

I don't think changing the designation from informal to semiformal would cause less confusion. I live in a part of the country where semiformal still means dark suit and cocktail dress ( what many pax consider formal!), informal means jacket w/ or w/out tie and dinner dress or pants suit, and casual is resort casual--what you wear for everything else (except exercise, housework, yard work & sometimes a dash to the grocery store!).

[AlinaMaria]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> IMO, you can never be overdressed. Think of everyone else as underdressed!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

 

I agree! It seems that this happens a lot with cruises in the Caribbean, did not see much of this on the Rotterdam last February. But I've seen it in Princess and much worse in RCI. RCI calls it "smart casual" which is definitely very misleading, I guess a lot of people don't get the "smart" part of it. The only cruise line that I have seen succeed in describing it is Celebrity that calls it "semiformal". Some might look a bit "overdressed" but I rather see my fellow passengers overdressed than underdressed, at least it makes the dinning experience much more enjoyable. I do believe that a nice restaurant, with a nice gourmet menu deserves adequate dress codes. I truly hope that dress codes do not go the same way our business environment is going, so many companies are going with this new "business casual" which is a joke in most companies. I work at a health insurance company and some of the coworkers are so casual all week long it is sometimes embarrasing, they may not have jean or sneakers but some of the clothes are ready to be recycled or disposed of, if you know what I mean. The sad part: some of those wearing these clothes are supposed to be "management". I have yet to see our CEO with a suit! And the so called "casual Friday" have turned into "take me to the ballpark outfit day or I'm ready to clean house outfit day". . .

 

Sorry, but this topic gets the best of me. Yes, I like to dress nice for dinner, definitely for church, and I loooove formal nights. I guess I was born to late, I should have lived in the 40s and 50s, I just love how people used to take pride in their well groomed looks back then. I suffered as a teenager during the "hippie era" and now this "grunge" drives me crazy. I am lucky that I had parents that taught me right, taught me manners, and how to properly dress according to the situation.

 

Thank you for "listening". I pray and hope that HAL and Celebrity don't change their codes, it's just about the only cruise lines I can afford in a nursing salary where elegance still matters.

 

AlinaMaria

 

11/04 HAL/Zuiderdam

02/04 HAL/Rotterdam

09/03 RCI/Majesty of the Seas

04/03 RCI/Navigator of the Seas

06/02 Princess/Grand Princess

05/98 Celebrity/Mercury

07/97 Celebrity/Century

06/96 Celebrity/Century

05/95 Celebrity/Zenith

06/82 Premier/Dolphin

[jhannah]

I agree that changing the designation won't change anything. As Greg points out, HAL is very clear in its expectations for the three evening attire levels. I believe there is minimal misunderstanding. We're back to the old "it's my vacation and I'll dress as I darn well please" mantra.

 

'Vegas Jim

 

[barriedavis]

Its worth noting that, on the Dawn Princess in January, those people who wanted to take part in the on stage activities (Newlywed Game etc) were chosen only if they were wearing suggested and appropriate attire for the evening in question. On Westerdam last week, one of the guys on stage, on formal night, was wearing a baseball cap, tee shirt, shorts and flip flops. If HAL wanted to enforce the suggested code, here is a way they could easily do it and make the non observers take a back seat to those who followed the code. I have to say that he looked out of place rather than anyone else in the room.

 

Bazzer

[darnapar]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>I don't think changing the designation from informal to semiformal would cause less confusion.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think changing the wording makes a big difference.

Informal to me has always meant business casual. Semi formal means a suit or sports jacket. What else would informal mean when the cruiseline lists:

2 formal nights

1 semi formal night

4 informal nights.

[gonnago]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Guess most people don't read the "Know Before You Go" booklet. The dress code is spelled out there.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

 

I was with a tour group and several of those had not read all HAL's information. But those were by no means the only ones dressed casually or less. Jeans were worn by some guests that night and no one with HAL said a word.

 

HAL is making the situation worse by not enforcing their rules and/or suggestions about dress.

 

Alaska's cruise shouldn't be any different than in the Caribbean with regard to dress codes. Both are relaxed parts of the world IMHO

 

"Thanks to all for your help & advice. Our May 28th cruise was much better for it!"

[lddam]

A rose by any other name ...

 

My wife and I just returned from a 14-day on the Noordam, and the dress code for the evening is stated on each daily "On Board" together with a definition of what is expected. Casual is defined as "Comfortable attire, but no shorts, T-shirts or jeans please." Informal reads "Dress or blouses and slacks suggested for ladies. Jackets required for men." Formal is described as "Cocktail dresses or gowns for the ladies. Tuxedos or business suits suggested for men (jacket and tie required)."

 

That seems plain enough for me, and IMO, changing labels to Formal, Semi-formal, Informal will have little impact on what we see happening in the dining rooms. Those who have a sense of deportment will read and follow the dress codes, and those who don't will read and ignore the dress codes. If what I saw on the Noordam is typical of HAL, then the vast majority of PAX are adhering to the dress code and dining room staff are turning a blind eye to what PAX are wearing as they enter the dining room. Any and all were admitted regardless of their garb, and little attention was paid either by staff or fellow passengers to the fact that some had not followed the code for the evening. Life just went on as before;that is, good food and drink were served, conversations flowed, and believe it or not, everyone STILL seemed to have a good time.

 

The bottom line is that Marcia and I observe the dress code because we enjoy it and for us, it adds to allure of cruising. If someone chooses not to, so be it. We don't let that affect our level of enjoyment one iota.

 

Dave & Marcia

R.E.D.I.S.

(Retired, Every Day Is Saturday)

[GAndie]

Egads! I was reared observing semi-formal at our dining table EVERY day of the week for dinner in my own home! I never would have even thought about wearing shorts or t-shirts to dinner at my house. Mother would have me sent to my room with NOTHING to eat if I couldn't get dressed and be downstairs before the appetizer was served!

[c-cruise]

I just don't get why people care what other people wear to dinner. Does it really diminish your cruise experience that much if someone doesn't wear a jacket on informal night? Now I am not suggesting that it is ok to wear jeans on formal night, but the culture has changed and more casual clothes are widely accepted.

 

It must be a regional difference. I live in Seattle which is an extremely casual area (I often wear jeans to work). I can see why people who live in more formal areas would have a differing opinion on dress codes.

 

Future Cruises:

- 6/27/04 Sapphire Princess

- 12/12/04 Oosterdam

[Spender Nui]

When we started cruising there were two kinds of dress for dinner. Tux for formal nights and jacket and tie for all others.

 

That being said, I enjoyed Renaissance where jackets or ties were never necessary (some wore them) but everyone was dressed neat, no shorts, jeans or shirts without collars.

 

Whatever the dress code requires, even if I don't like it, I follow and feel others should too, out of respect for their fellow passengers if nothing else.