Louvre, Euro Museums: Popularity Pressures?

[TLCOhio]

From the New York Times yesterday, they have this headline: "European Museums Straining Under Weight of Popularity" with these highlights: "It is the height of summer, and millions of visitors are flocking to the Louvre — the busiest art museum in the world, with 9.3 million visitors last year — and to other great museums across Europe. Every year the numbers grow as new middle classes emerge, especially in Asia and Eastern Europe. Last summer the British Museum had record attendance, and for 2013 as a whole it had 6.7 million visitors, making it the second-most visited museum in the world."

 

The challenge? This story notes: "Seeing masterpieces may be a soul-nourishing cultural rite of passage, but soaring attendance has turned many museums into crowded, sauna-like spaces, forcing institutions to debate how to balance accessibility with art preservation. In recent years, museums have started doing more to manage the crowds. Most offer timed tickets. Others are extending their hours. To protect the art, some are putting in new air-conditioning systems."

 

For the opening on this story, they noted: "the line to enter the Louvre stretched around the entrance pyramid, across one long courtyard and into the next. Inside the museum, a crowd more than a dozen deep faced the 'Mona Lisa,' most taking cellphone pictures and selfies. Near the 'Winged Victory of Samothrace,' Jean-Michel Borda, visiting from Madrid, paused amid the crush. 'It’s like the Métro early in the morning,' he said."

 

Interesting story and detailed background on these famed Europe museums that we have been fortunate to have been able to have visited.

 

Full story at:

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/29/arts/design/european-museums-straining-under-weight-of-popularity.html?&hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&version=LargeMediaHeadlineSum&module=photo-spot-region&region=photo-spot&WT.nav=photo-spot&_r=0

 

THANKS! Enjoy! Terry in Ohio

 

Did a June 7-19, 2011, Celebrity Solstice cruise from Barcelona that had stops in Villefranche, ports near Pisa and Rome, Naples, Kotor, Venice and Dubrovnik. Enjoyed great weather and a wonderful trip. Dozens of nice visuals with key highlights, tips, comments, etc., on these postings. We are now at 178,793 views for this live/blog re-cap on our first sailing with Celebrity and much on wonderful Barcelona. Check these postings and added info at:

http://www.boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1426474

[Turtles06]

Terry, thanks for posting the article.

 

What an unpleasantly huge crowd in front of the Mona Lisa. I haven't been there in almost a decade, but no photography was allowed then. Obviously, that has changed. I imagine that with everyone having a cellphone, the museum could not really police such a rule any longer. (Cameras without flash should not cause harm, but when everyone has to take a selfie with Mona, it sure makes for a crowded mess.)

[KirkNC]

We went to the Louvre about four years ago and it was fairly zoo like particularly at the highlights. Prior to that I thought the Hermitage was a crowd.:eek:

[Pet Nit Noy]

Terry, thanks for posting the article.

 

What an unpleasantly huge crowd in front of the Mona Lisa. I haven't been there in almost a decade, but no photography was allowed then. Obviously, that has changed. I imagine that with everyone having a cellphone, the museum could not really police such a rule any longer. (Cameras without flash should not cause harm, but when everyone has to take a selfie with Mona, it sure makes for a crowded mess.)

 

About two decades ago, when my husband and I last bothered going to the Mona Lisa gallery, there was no photography allowed, but some decided the prohibition didn't apply to them. Every time a flash went off, the light illuminating the Mona Lisa went dark for several seconds. When the light would go back on someone might try the same photography stunt again. Then, peer pressure set in. The folks who were being forced to wait longer to see the painting because the light kept going off, started policing the behavior of the rule-breakers. Of course, this only lasted as long as the people near the painting -- the ones who could see the consequences of someone being uncooperative -- were in front. When folks who had been waiting their turn in rows farther back moved up to the front, the cycle would repeat itself.

 

TLCOhio, I know you're a superb photographer. I'd like to ask a photography question: With the thick plexiglass over the painting, do the people taking flash photographs even get a decent photograph or does the light bounce off the glass obscuring the image?

[Got2Cruise]

yes I'm guilty. Selfie in front of Mona Lisa using IPhone. That's as close as you can get you can see the railing. Plus there are huge signs no flash and beware of pick pockets. As you are trying to get your selfie. It's open season for pick pockets

[Pet Nit Noy]

[ATTACH]320604[/ATTACH] yes I'm guilty. Selfie in front of Mona Lisa using IPhone. That's as close as you can get you can see the railing. Plus there are huge signs no flash and beware of pick pockets. As you are trying to get your selfie. It's open season for pick pockets

 

Just curious: Guilty of taking a selfie or guilty of taking a flash photograph?

Edited July 29, 2014 by Pet Nit Noy

[Got2Cruise]

Just curious: Guilty of taking a selfie or guilty of taking a flash photograph?

Selfie. I don't think a flash would have mattered so far away. And BIG signs no flash, I am not a rule breaker. Went first thing in the a.m. went directly to Mona Lisa using Rick Steve's directions. If I just wanted a photo I could purchase a postcard or poster in gift shop. lol Edited July 29, 2014 by Got2Cruise

[CintiPam]

Thanks for link, Terry.

 

It is ridiculous to attempt to take photos of paintings at museums when you nowadays can get much better images easily online. The Google art project as well as the many wonderful art museums websites can do a much better job than you can. (I love the website for the Hermitage.)

 

One improvement I noticed upon my return visit last fall to the Musee D'Orsay in Paris was that photos were prohibited absolutely. This made for a much better experience than our first visit about six years prior. Also we went to the Louvre late in the afternoon on one of the evenings it is open late and the crowds simply began to disappear around 4 PM.

 

There are solutions to long lines waiting for entrance. Museum passes (in Paris) or pre-purchase of reserved tickets (Uffizi and Vatican) make waiting in line a waste of your precious tourist time.

 

I only wish our own Cincinnati Art Museum, where I serve as a docent, had such problems! :)

[whatnot]

Yes, pre booking tickets or getting Museum Passes in Paris does help avoid the lines. But a month ago at the D'Orsay, when it was very crowded, people were still taking cell phone pictures! There were so many people that there was no way they could police the picture taking. It frankly was too crowded to be enjoyable! I had been to the Louvre 20 years ago, but our friends had not. We did not go but they did. They said it was a zoo! There are sometimes advantages when you are on a tour of some sort. On a small ship cruise to St Petersburg, we went to The Hermitage on the day it was closed to the public. There were only the 50 or 60 people from our cruise there. I have pictures with no people blocking the art! We also went to Peterhof before it opened to the public. Sorry to say we had to go to Catherine's Palace with the shoving , pushing, rude masses. It too was a zoo.

 

So sorry to see it become so difficult to get into and enjoy these fabulous museums, but it is good that people want to see all these cultural gems.

[Turtles06]

 

TLCOhio, I know you're a superb photographer. I'd like to ask a photography question: With the thick plexiglass over the painting, do the people taking flash photographs even get a decent photograph or does the light bounce off the glass obscuring the image?

 

I'm not Terry, but to help answer your question: if you use flash head on in front of glass, you will reflect the light. If you are ever in a situation when you must shoot through glass, shoot at an angle.

 

Folks overuse flash indoors. With the lowlight capabilities and high ISO settings of many if not most digital cameras, there's no need to use flash in many places where people are using flash.

[Pet Nit Noy]

Selfie. I don't think a flash would have mattered so far away. And BIG signs no flash, I am not a rule breaker.

 

I underlined your words "so far away" because I find it interesting that the railing has been moved back considerably over the years. I'm guessing that has been the strategy adopted by the museum directors trying to cope with the many people who, unlike you, don't think the rules apply to them and use a flash.

 

Twenty years ago, the last time my husband and I went to visit the Mona Lisa, viewers were not kept back with a railing, although there was glass protection and the elaborate lights on/off system I described in post 4.

 

In January 1962, when the painting came to the National Gallery in Washington, DC -- leaving France for the first time -- the only ones taking photographs were members of the press at the opening ceremonies. (And looking at the newsreel -- URL below -- I can't tell whether the photographers/videographers are recording anything other than President Kennedy and the other dignitaries. They may not be turning their flash cameras on the painting. Certainly, the ordinary citizens shown later in the newsreel aren't using flash cameras.)

 

FWIW, my memory of my trip there is actually somewhat different from the scene in the news reel showing first day visitors. Somewhat into the three-week DC showing, I took off from high school and went downtown to see the painting. I remember the Marine guards shown in the newsreel, but I remember light crowds and being allowed to look for a considerable amount of time without being moved along.

 

The URL will take you to a collection of many videos about the Mona Lisa. The National Gallery video is titled "Mona Lisa Welcomed in Washington by..." Just click on that clip.

 

http://article.wn.com/view/2014/07/26/how_mona_lisa_8217s_smile_led_to_love_affairs_and_suicides/

Edited July 30, 2014 by Pet Nit Noy

[Pet Nit Noy]

The URL will take you to a collection of many videos about the Mona Lisa. The National Gallery video is titled "Mona Lisa Welcomed in Washington by..." Just click on that clip.

 

http://article.wn.com/view/2014/07/26/how_mona_lisa_8217s_smile_led_to_love_affairs_and_suicides/

 

Correction: The URL will take you to an article. Scan down to the end of the article and you'll see a horizontal list of links to video clips. "Mona Lisa Welcomed in Washington" is the one you'll want.

 

What I originally wrote is the appearance of the page after you've gone to the video link once.

[Turtles06]

. I don't think a flash would have mattered so far away.

 

Yup. People mis-use flash all the time, from distances where it simply is doing nothing. Think about a sporting event in a large arena and all those flashes popping from the upper tiers. Useless.

[Got2Cruise]

now look how close we came at D'orsay. Also with iPhone no flash.

[Pet Nit Noy]

Yup. People mis-use flash all the time, from distances where it simply is doing nothing. Think about a sporting event in a large arena and all those flashes popping from the upper tiers. Useless.

 

Of course you're right, but I interpreted Got2Cruise's comment "flash wouldn't have mattered" in a slightly different way. I assumed the meaning was the placement of the railing kept viewers were far enough away from the painting that light from a flash wouldn't hurt the painting.

 

Since I'm not an art conservator, I don't know the facts about light fall off and painting safety. However, from my days working in a museum, I do know that paintings can cope with steady light better somewhat brighter than you might think but are harmed by wide swings in light like exposure to a flash.

[NEW 2 CRUISIN]

Those museums were a crazy mess 3 years ago when we visited!

We were lucky to get an "OK glance" at everything from "The David" to "Mona" and "The Sistine" among others, but certainly could not spend any length of time in the crowded viewing areas. There was too much else to do!!

 

Any successful event is the same way - they need the crowd to survive, but the crowds can kill them! I wouldn't be surprised to see the museums go to a "timed" entry to control the crowd flow, but if nobody leaves that doesn't work either! LOL

 

Seems to work well at Sagrada Famillia and The Leaning Tower, so there's still hope!

 

Whatever possesses entire families to "squat" in front of a museum piece for hours is beyond me. I suspect they've grown anxious from not being able to hog deck chairs for the day! HAHA!

 

Still, we can't wait to get back there in a couple months!!

[Got2Cruise]

Of course you're right, but I interpreted Got2Cruise's comment "flash wouldn't have mattered" in a slightly different way. I assumed the meaning was the placement of the railing kept viewers were far enough away from the painting that light from a flash wouldn't hurt the painting.

 

Since I'm not an art conservator, I don't know the facts about light fall off and painting safety. However, from my days working in a museum, I do know that paintings can cope with steady light better somewhat brighter than you might think but are harmed by wide swings in light like exposure to a flash.

 

Yes, that is what I meant. I used an iPhone so you know I am no photography expert.:D

[Turtles06]

Yes, that is what I meant. I used an iPhone so you know I am no photography expert.:D

 

My iPhone 5s takes amazingly good photos (if you don't need zoom). I constantly have to remember that I always have a pretty decent camera with me in the form of my phone.

[Got2Cruise]

My iPhone 5s takes amazingly good photos (if you don't need zoom). I constantly have to remember that I always have a pretty decent camera with me in the form of my phone.

 

Mine is only the iPhone 4. lol. But what I find helpful is that you can download travel guides right onto the phone. I had Rick Steves, and then you can sort of blend in for a nanosecond, or at least not scream "tourist" by walking around with a regular guidebook and camera hanging from your neck.;)

[TLCOhio]

TLCOhio, I know you're a superb photographer. I'd like to ask a photography question: With the thick plexiglass over the painting, do the people taking flash photographs even get a decent photograph or does the light bounce off the glass obscuring the image?

 

Turtles06: I'm not Terry' date=' but to help answer your question: if you use flash head on in front of glass, you will reflect the light. If you are ever in a situation when you must shoot through glass, shoot at an angle. Folks overuse flash indoors. With the lowlight capabilities and high ISO settings of many if not most digital cameras, there's no need to use flash in many places where people are using flash. [/quote']

 

Appreciate so much the varied comments, info, background and the question from a smart person who calls me "a superb photographer". Not sure if that's totally true or not. I take lots of pictures and only try to show the "good ones". I avoid showing my bad or marginal pictures.

 

Yes, flash can bounce off and create glare or problems. BUT, in most cases within any such museum locations, I never use a flash. I shoot available light with a higher ISO level as wisely noted by Turtles06. Lots of other and important comments, tips from Turtles06 and others.

 

Below are some of my pictures inside the Louvre from 1998 and 2007.

 

ADDED GOOD NEWS?: There are many areas of the Louvre that are not as busy. BUT, certain well-known areas do get super busy. These were from 2007 and things have become much more popular since that time.

 

Keep up the great sharing, suggestions and insights. PLUS, any and all questions, etc.!! Don't be shy!!

 

THANKS! Enjoy! Terry in Ohio

 

For details and visuals, etc., from our July 1-16, 2010, Norway Coast/Fjords/Arctic Circle cruise experience from Copenhagen on the Silver Cloud, check out this posting. This posting is now at 151,184 views. Nice to be hitting this high of a level for viewership. Appreciate the interest and follow-up questions/comments!!

http://www.boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1227923

 

 

Here are three views from the Louvre during our April 2007 visit. You can see how crowded things were in the one main gallery where the Mona Lisa is now located. You can also tell how a large sheet of glass protect the painting. Also from this same visit, are two other areas of the museum that give a sampling for the battles of crowds in these parts of this famed location. Good news? You will not be lonely!!:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

In 1998 when this photo was taken by me, this famed painting was in a different location within the Louvre. But, there was a big piece of protective glass in front of the painting. I was shooting without a flash, BUT, this image shows how "glare" and light reflections can cause challenges.:

 

[Got2Cruise]

TLC Ohio, I have enjoyed all of your photos you have shared over the years. Your photography skills have sold many a CCr on an itinerary.:)

 

Currently I'm drooling over your Venice and Greek Islands pics; that's my next go-to.

 

I also appreciate all your advice concerning hotels and sites to visit. This is why I love Cruise Critic. Thanks for all your sharing.

[hubofhockey]

We were at the Hermitage the second week of July and it was packed, but that place is so big that you can always get great views of the art work. We travel in the summer (at this point in our lives, that's the time we can go) and are used to the crowds. Toughest one is the Anne Frank House in Amsterdam. If you don't have a pre purchased ticket (available online), lines outside can be two hour waits. They keep capacity to a maximum at all hours there and it is a powerful and impressive presentation.

[TLCOhio]

TLC Ohio, I have enjoyed all of your photos you have shared over the years. Your photography skills have sold many a CCr on an itinerary.:) Currently I'm drooling over your Venice and Greek Islands pics; that's my next go-to. I also appreciate all your advice concerning hotels and sites to visit. This is why I love Cruise Critic. Thanks for all your sharing.

 

Appreciate so much the kind comments from the above Long Island cruiser. Glad to have been helpful. If I have "sold" that many cruises, should I be checking my mail box for the commission checks from the cruise lines? Don't think that will happen, but it's fun to dream about. Assume, right, you have seen my below postings on Venice, etc. Don't be shy in asking any added questions for the Greek Isles, Venice, etc.

 

Great insights and updates were provided by hubofhockey on the Hermitage in St. Petersburg, etc. Key point made on this factual background item: "that place is so big that you can always get great views of the art work".

 

If Venice is one of your future desires or past favorites, you might look at this earlier posting that I did on the Italy board that shows many options and visual potentials for this city that is so great for "walking around", personally sampling the great history and architecture. This posting is now at 40,598 views and I appreciate those who have dropped by and tuned in.

Venice: Loving It & Why??!!

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1278226

 

THANKS! Enjoy! Terry in Ohio

 

Back from doing a 14-day Celebrity Solstice, Jan. 20-Feb. 3, 2014, Sydney to Auckland adventure on this ship and getting a big sampling for the wonders of "down under” before and after this cruise. Go to:

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1974139

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