Problem with Dynamic Dining

[TM38Rob]

[quote name='ryano']Who has attacked anyone?

Just as Im sure all the pro Dynamic Dining people are tired of all the pro traditional dining people whining about something that hasnt been rolled out yet. Dont tell someone they should be against it before even trying it unless you are willing to pay for their cruise.


See how that works?[/quote]
The OP expressed frustration is not being able to book reservations on Quantum. The first reply (post 2) starts with "When you've experience Dynamic Dining, come back and tell us then. Don't shoot something until you've tried it." I call that an attack. They didn't pay for the OP's cruise, so who are they to tell them that. Furthermore, the OP explained their experience with DD so far (with the reservation problems) and prefers Traditional Dining.

Also Traditional Dining people are not "whining" about Dynamic Dining. We have legitimate concerns about how Dynamic Dining will affect us.

[caribbean sailor]

[quote name='SherriZ366']Pro-DD folks should state their opinion but should do it WITHOUT ATTACKING me and others who like traditional dining.[/quote]

Well said we agree.:)

[time4u2go]

[quote name='Spurschick']Actually was booked on oasis in RS which was chartered out so we got moved to allure even though they didn't have same cabin available By the time we sail neither the original cabin we had booked will exist nor will td as I am sure allure will be dynamic by the time we get on.And if we had still been on oasis we would have had cabin change and dd imposed on us after booking. So yes I am in that boat:eek:

[B]BUT 4 full service restaurants complimentary (5 if we include coastal kitchen for suite)[/B] is more than sufficient for 7 days. Not tried dynamic and yes we like traditional but for people to say no options defies belief. Given you can turn up when you want where you want is not a negative. All the restaurants cater for special menu requests.

I am not flaming you, I am talking in general that I don't comprehend how more is less. Trust me I am not either pro or anti td or dd. But I am looking forward to variety. I am looking forward to the fact that if I don't feel inspired by a particular menu one night in MDR I have complimentary options. If I don't feel service is good in a restaurant I can choose somewhere else the next day. Vacations are to relax and enjoy, not be planned to the minute and regulated with repetitiveness all the time.[/quote]
According to the future deck plans for Oasis, there will only be 3 complementary full service restaurants (plus Coastal Kitchen). Chic will not be present. I would presume Allure will be the same way. Edited October 9, 2014 by time4u2go

[RocketMan275]

[quote name='SherriZ366']Pro-DD folks should state their opinion but should do it WITHOUT ATTACKING me and others who like traditional dining.[/QUOTE]

I've not seen anything I would characterize as a personal attack on this thread. I have seen vigorous debate with many people stating their opinions. I do not consider disagreement to be a personal attack.

[RocketMan275]

[quote name='cooncat']Sheri and Rocketman, I agree with both of what you are saying. But there are those of us, who prefer the traditional dining, getting to know your tablemates and wait staff. If this indeed goes fleetwide, I as a solo cruiser may have to switch to Princess. I love the quality and quantity of entertainment on the RCI ships. I love the innovations of the RCI ships and I sure would hate to switch when I go back to cruising. I just hope it doesn't go industry wide.[/QUOTE]

Cooncat,

I find the arguments of the solo cruiser to be the most compelling of those presented on this thread. However, I doubt Royal will drop DD to accommodate the single cruiser or any others who prefer traditional dining. Traditional dining and Dynamic Dining just do not coexist.

Royal has done their research and have determined that traditional (including MTD) does not match the preferences of the new cruising public. The traditional cruising public who prefer traditional dining are slowly losing out on market share. (See the posts on participation in the traditional dining rooms.) The new cruising demographic that Royal is trying to attract is just not that into the very features of traditional dining that the traditional dining enthusiast prefer.

Perhaps Royal could offer some additional services in dining reservations to aid the solo cruiser but I think it doubtful this could come close to recreating the traditional dining experience.

I doubt that going to another cruise line would be a long term solution. If DD is successful, it will be adopted by the other cruise lines in the same competitive area. Which is not to say that Princess is a not a great option. We usually split about 50/50 between Princess and RCI.

I do have compassion for those who are affected by Dynamic Dining but I do believe it is future of cruising.

[boscobeans]

I would love to know how RCCL made their decision concerning Dynamic Dining.

Research of what sort?
From what type of group?

I could imagine a mixed group made up of experienced cruisers along with folks who have never stepped foot on a ship being asked to complete a survey.

Questions on survey dealing with dining preferences:

1. Do you want to have to choose only one of two dining times for your entire cruise?
2. Do you want to eat in the same restaurant every night during your entire cruise?
3. Do you want to have the choice of eating at any one of (10-12-13-14...18) different restaurants during your cruise?
4. Do you want to have the choice of dining at different times each night during your cruise?
4. Do you want to eat at restaurants with menus designed by highly rated popular chefs?

There are many, many things that the above questions do not address or explain fully.

Surveys, focus groups and think tanks can and are often wrong depending on many things and can easily be steered in almost any direction.

The decision to market the New Coke (some groups got samples containing as little as two ounces)was well researched and yet failed.

I think many major corporate decisions are made well before the research is done based on many things other than true umbiased research.

After 30 plus years of working for large corporations I have seen this over and over again.

As to any decision about DD versus Traditional, the choice is up to the individual and since RCCL has decided to go with it it's not worth arguing over.

This thread and all the others dealing with the topic are great for opinions both pro and con as well as being very informative for those who may need help choosing one over the other.

Only time will tell.


Whatever your choice I hope all goes well and you enjoy every aspect of your cruise no matter how you choose.

OMO

bosco

[mickev99]

[quote name='Spurschick']When we wanted the same requirements on a recent cruise as we were sailing with family, it was easily sorted with an advance email to concierge, who took care of it before we arrived with the restaurant manager. I did this as I called C&A and they said that this was the easiest way to organize. A couple of nights they asked us to come in 10 mins earlier which was fine. Same table, same staff every night give or take a few minutes difference in seating times.

If you have not previously done this way I recommend as was not complicated at all. Enjoy your cruises[/quote]

Not sure how it worked out for us, but I had MTD and I booked 9 of us at 5:45 & 7:15 dinner times (depending on excursions) in the cruise planner before we sailed, then one family under a different reservation number went straight to guest services when they got on board and added their 3 members to our reservation (the system wouldn't let me reserve for more than 10 people). We had the same table and same waitstaff every single night and didn't even ask for it. Now, for the 7:15 reservation, we did end up cancelling that one because of other reasons, so maybe that would have been different. We never asked for the same table or waitstaff, either. Never had to do anything special. Not sure how it worked out for us and everyone else is saying it's so difficult to do. Maybe just a fluke?

[cruisingram1]

[I][INDENT]According to the future deck plans for Oasis, there will only be 3 complementary full service restaurants (plus Coastal Kitchen). Chic will not be present. I would presume Allure will be the same way.[/INDENT][/I]

And The Grande is formal. I can see this being an issue and The Grande being the lesser used of the three full service restaurants. You can barely get people to dress for formal night now, let alone require it on all nights of the cruise. Perhaps there could be a compromise and make it formal for only two of the seven nights like formal nights on a typical 7 night cruise.

If people show up in less than full formal wear, will The Grande turn them away? Clearly the definition of "formal" has changed over the years.

[RocketMan275]

[quote name='boscobeans']I would love to know how RCCL made their decision concerning Dynamic Dining.

Research of what sort?
From what type of group?

I could imagine a mixed group made up of experienced cruisers along with folks who have never stepped foot on a ship being asked to complete a survey.

Questions on survey dealing with dining preferences:

1. Do you want to have to choose only one of two dining times for your entire cruise?
2. Do you want to eat in the same restaurant every night during your entire cruise?
3. Do you want to have the choice of eating at any one of (10-12-13-14...18) different restaurants during your cruise?
4. Do you want to have the choice of dining at different times each night during your cruise?
4. Do you want to eat at restaurants with menus designed by highly rated popular chefs?

There are many, many things that the above questions do not address or explain fully.

Surveys, focus groups and think tanks can and are often wrong depending on many things and can easily be steered in almost any direction.

The decision to market the New Coke (some groups got samples containing as little as two ounces)was well researched and yet failed.

I think many major corporate decisions are made well before the research is done based on many things other than true umbiased research.

After 30 plus years of working for large corporations I have seen this over and over again.

As to any decision about DD versus Traditional, the choice is up to the individual and since RCCL has decided to go with it it's not worth arguing over.

This thread and all the others dealing with the topic are great for opinions both pro and con as well as being very informative for those who may need help choosing one over the other.

Only time will tell.


Whatever your choice I hope all goes well and you enjoy every aspect of your cruise no matter how you choose.

OMO

bosco[/QUOTE]

You make some very good points. Major studies can be 'steered' to a pre-ordained result and I've seen the consequences. I also admit that I"m biased towards dynamic dining since traditional dining does not appeal to me.

I agree completely with your statement: "As to any decision about DD versus Traditional, the choice is up to the individual and since RCCL has decided to go with it it's not worth arguing over." We will see, won't we?

[Kruzer Zuker]

Anyone successfully booked dining options for Oasis? Edited October 9, 2014 by sbzcruises

[time4u2go]

[quote name='cruisingram1'][I]
[INDENT]According to the future deck plans for Oasis, there will only be 3 complementary full service restaurants (plus Coastal Kitchen). Chic will not be present. I would presume Allure will be the same way.
[/INDENT][/I]

And The Grande is formal. I can see this being an issue and The Grande being the lesser used of the three full service restaurants. You can barely get people to dress for formal night now, let alone require it on all nights of the cruise. Perhaps there could be a compromise and make it formal for only two of the seven nights like formal nights on a typical 7 night cruise.

If people show up in less than full formal wear, will The Grande turn them away? Clearly the definition of "formal" has changed over the years.[/quote]
Very true. So on Allure and Oasis, there will only be 2 complementary full-service options for non-suite guests that do not wish to dress formally. Edited October 9, 2014 by time4u2go

[3dog]

[quote name='time4u2go']Very true. So on Allure and Oasis, there will only be 2 complementary full-service options for non-suite guests that do not wish to dress formally.[/QUOTE]

Certainly seems this way. My guess (lots of guessing, as there isn't a lot of official information) is that they will accept Smart Casual as well.

[cooncat]

I realize that RCI isn't going to abandon DD for the solo cruiser. They just don't care about them anymore. Perhaps there are solo cruisers who don't mind eating alone. If you have to make reservations for DD, there is no space for solos to join others at tables. Yes, I enjoy being put with others at breakfast in the dining room, but you don't get the same closeness or any closeness as you would by eating at the same table with the same people. It will be hard on the wait staff because they won't be serving the people every night. I guess this is the fact of life with RCI. As somebody stated, there are only going be a couple of inclusive dining options for those non-suite cruisers. It seems like the cruise line is catering more towards the suite passengers now. It sounds like the old days when the cruise companies really cater to the first class passengers. I know that Cunard has a separate dining room for those people. Starting to sound really snobbish to me. In the old days of RCI everybody sat together and it was great.

I just hope and pray that this doesn't spread industry wide. Us solo cruisers love to cruise and sure would hate to find another form of vacation.

[Maraprince]

Most cruise lines with set dining times usually group singles together at the same table giving them a chance to bond on their own.

I'm not sure which is worse, going alone and having to eat alone or being the only odd person at a table with an entire family.

I also see an issue with tables for 2. These are usually very limited. If people do not get the accommodations they desire or cannot reserve before boarding, I see lots of lines and dissatisfied customers.

The Grande would not even get as many reservations if the other venues were not full. Plus, I believe the really formal dress code has been slightly relaxed. I would also think that the 24-buffet will be overused by passengers who do not get their desired dining times, etc.

How long did it take NCL to get Free Style right? RCCL jumping in with both feet and a hand is just crazy. Plus, sending a new ship after 6 months over to the Asian market with new staff and new menus is just insane.

MARAPRINCE

[cruiserhal]

[quote name='bh9885']After being told for several months that reservations could not be made until 90 days before departure on the Quantum of the Seas on March 1st, my travel agent and I were told at least 3 times, my agent contacted RC again and found this to be wrong information. Now, it seems that all the preferred booking times are taken. Royal Caribbean really shot themselves in the foot with dynamic dining. When we go on a cruise we don't want to spend the day trying to figure out what time and which restaurant to dine in. This cruise will bring us to the Diamond level so we are not new to cruising Royal Caribbean. Bring back traditional dining or we're cruising with another cruise line.[/QUOTE]

Hi Philly. We are on the same cruise so I was wondering - did you receive the email yesterday telling us we can now book the entertainment? If so, did you try it? It will not work for me. The message is about me trying too soon or too late. Less than 24 hours after receiving the email is too late???

Hal from near Reading

[TM38Rob]

[quote name='boscobeans']I would love to know how RCCL made their decision concerning Dynamic Dining.

Research of what sort?
From what type of group?

I could imagine a mixed group made up of experienced cruisers along with folks who have never stepped foot on a ship being asked to complete a survey.

Questions on survey dealing with dining preferences:

1. Do you want to have to choose only one of two dining times for your entire cruise?
2. Do you want to eat in the same restaurant every night during your entire cruise?
3. Do you want to have the choice of eating at any one of (10-12-13-14...18) different restaurants during your cruise?
4. Do you want to have the choice of dining at different times each night during your cruise?
4. Do you want to eat at restaurants with menus designed by highly rated popular chefs?

There are many, many things that the above questions do not address or explain fully.

Surveys, focus groups and think tanks can and are often wrong depending on many things and can easily be steered in almost any direction.

The decision to market the New Coke (some groups got samples containing as little as two ounces)was well researched and yet failed.

I think many major corporate decisions are made well before the research is done based on many things other than true umbiased research.

After 30 plus years of working for large corporations I have seen this over and over again.

As to any decision about DD versus Traditional, the choice is up to the individual and since RCCL has decided to go with it it's not worth arguing over.

This thread and all the others dealing with the topic are great for opinions both pro and con as well as being very informative for those who may need help choosing one over the other.

Only time will tell.


Whatever your choice I hope all goes well and you enjoy every aspect of your cruise no matter how you choose.

OMO

bosco[/quote]
I'm sure it's a combination of surveys to focus groups and feedback from some people requesting more specialty restaurants (and complimentary ones). This could explain why some people in favor of DD try to silence those in favor of Traditional Dining instead of explaining what they are looking forward to in DD. Maybe they're afraid they'll have one less "restaurant" to choose from if they keep a dining room (or dining space) for Traditional Dining.

If the survey as described above was given to groups of people who have never sailed before, their responses may be different if you survey them again after sailing. I remember when I was researching what Royal Caribbean, Norwegian, and Carnival had to offer in terms of dining. Norwegian's menus looked better then Royal Caribbean's for specialty dining, and they boasted more restaurants onboard. (The price wasn't as high as it was today). At the time, I could only find a sample menu if I found one at all for the MDR, so I was unaware of a different menu each night. Norwegian might have won for my first cruise, however, it came down to Norwegian Sky vs Majesty of the Seas. Neither ship had the number of restaurants the newer ships had, or the specialty restaurants I was looking forward to (on Norwegian). Johnny Rockets had been added to Majesty, and improvements to CocoCay were enough for Royal Caribbean to win.

I'll admit I was a little uneasy about dining with "strangers" at dinner. The first night I ate at Johnny Rockets due to a stormy sailaway and not enough time to get ready for dinner. The 2nd night was formal night and I was under the impression you had to wear a suit or tux to dinner. My Stateroom Attendant informed me that they get the room ready for the night while we're at dinner, and a nice shirt and pants would be acceptable. The third night was my birthday, I had run out of excuses and was time to try the MDR. I had great tablemates and wished I had met them sooner.

Point is: my survey answers pre-cruising would have been in favor toward Freestyle/Dynamic Dining (I was in my late-20's at that time) and having sailed a Tradition Dining ship, my answers would have changed to be in favor of the latter. This shows survey results are useless.

Shake Shack changed their fries about a year ago to hand cut ones instead of crinkle cut ones bases on feedback from "certain passionate fans". However, "We didn’t fully appreciate the simple, tactile pleasure and the emotional attachment our fans have to the crispiness, the ridges and pure joy that these fries bring to guests of all ages. Even fans that genuinely appreciated what we were trying to do continued to remind us that they just wanted the crinkle cuts back." Now the Crinkles Are Coming Back in November [URL]https://www.shakeshack.com/2014/08/08/crinkles-are-coming-back-this-fall/[/URL]

Although we were told DD would be tested fully on Quantum ships before expanding to other ships in the fleet, we learned this is not true as it is going to Oasis (and rumors about Freedom, Allure, Liberty, etc.) My guess is the "testing" of DD was on Voyager during the cruises from China. I remember reading somewhere that the MDRs were changed to have food Chinese people would like, each MDR had a different menu, and it was all MTD. It wouldn't surprise me if we start seeing groups of passengers from China sailing on ships with DD from the U.S. as there is a "complimentary" restaurant (Silk) dedicated to Asian cuisine. After all, the Chinese have funded in the Baha Mar resort in Nassau, Bahamas. At Mohegan Sun casino, there's an area dedicated for Chinese visited with signs in Chinese and a dedicated Momentum rewards booth for them.
This is just my theory and only time will tell. We can agree to disagree if you don't agree. I don't feel that Royal Caribbean is just trying to attract a younger audience, they are trying to attract those with more money to spend.

[TM38Rob]

[quote name='Maraprince']Most cruise lines with set dining times usually group singles together at the same table giving them a chance to bond on their own.

I'm not sure which is worse, going alone and having to eat alone or being the only odd person at a table with an entire family.
MARAPRINCE[/quote]
There was only one cruise out of ten where I was seated at a table of 6 where all 6 of us were each sailing solo.

I have been at a table with only one couple and only with one family on a couple cruises. At first it feels awkward to be an outsider sitting with a family, however, they quickly welcome me and they get a chance to tell stories to a new audience. My last cruise I was at a table with a family of 3. One night I was at dinner alone as we were in port overnight and they were still ashore. That was the worst night, being alone at dinner, than any other night in the MDR on Royal Caribbean in eleven cruises, and the lasagne was the best out of the past 3 cruises it's been offered.

[bh9885]

[quote name='Spurschick']Popular times book early even MTD. Usually they hold some tables back for walk-ins. However if traditional dining is more what you want I have to wonder why you chose this ship and not a different one in the fleet that offers what you do want:confused:[/QUOTE]

When we booked the cruise they never told us about dynamic dining. I don't think the RC booking agent on the cruise ship we were on when we booked knew anything about it either because when we asked for an early dinner seating she said it was full and she would place us on the My Time dining list and we could check later to see if there were any openings.

[bh9885]

[quote name='cruiserhal']Hi Philly. We are on the same cruise so I was wondering - did you receive the email yesterday telling us we can now book the entertainment? If so, did you try it? It will not work for me. The message is about me trying too soon or too late. Less than 24 hours after receiving the email is too late???

Hal from near Reading[/QUOTE]

Sorry Hal but we aren't on the same cruise. We're cancelling our cruise due to all the misinformation by Royal Caribbean. And by the way, we never received any emails about booking entertainment. I guess with 18 restaurants they can't have just two show in the theater anymore. Another post said that he/she thinks that DD is going to spread to other RC ships. If that's the case, it's time for us to cruise with another cruise line.

[Spurschick]

[quote name='time4u2go']The link you posted was just a generic description of DD, in particular on Quantum class ships. The updated deck plans for Oasis do not show Chic. So it looks like there will only be 3 complementary full-service restaurants for non-suite guests: The Grande, Silk, and American Icon Grill.[/QUOTE]


Actually the article was titled along the lines of dd being rolled out on oasis which is why at the time I thought it to be accurate. If it is only 3 so be it. However the point I was trying to get across is there are more complimentary options and hence more variety in menu than there previously was with one MDR. As such I was trying to understand how some felt that was limiting their options as opposed to giving them more.

[Spurschick]

When we booked the cruise they never told us about dynamic dining. I don't think the RC booking agent on the cruise ship we were on when we booked knew anything about it either because when we asked for an early dinner seating she said it was full and she would place us on the My Time dining list and we could check later to see if there were any openings.

 

In your original post you stated you booked using a TA. A good TA would have been the person responsible to tell you that info. RC would assume the TAs has made sure the cruise you book meets your needs. Any research on the quantum would have shown they were building it without a MDR.

 

Sorry this wasn't conveyed to you.

[Spurschick]

Not sure how it worked out for us, but I had MTD and I booked 9 of us at 5:45 & 7:15 dinner times (depending on excursions) in the cruise planner before we sailed, then one family under a different reservation number went straight to guest services when they got on board and added their 3 members to our reservation (the system wouldn't let me reserve for more than 10 people). We had the same table and same waitstaff every single night and didn't even ask for it. Now, for the 7:15 reservation, we did end up cancelling that one because of other reasons, so maybe that would have been different. We never asked for the same table or waitstaff, either. Never had to do anything special. Not sure how it worked out for us and everyone else is saying it's so difficult to do. Maybe just a fluke?

 

Glad it worked out for you too. Maybe we just didn't over complicate it;):D . I have done by both phone and online and by email before. All since MTD was introduced. Never had an issue if planned out before starting the process and having a certain degree of flexibility.

Edited October 10, 2014 by Spurschick

[SherriZ366]

When we wanted the same requirements on a recent cruise as we were sailing with family, it was easily sorted with an advance email to concierge, who took care of it before we arrived with the restaurant manager. I did this as I called C&A and they said that this was the easiest way to organize. A couple of nights they asked us to come in 10 mins earlier which was fine. Same table, same staff every night give or take a few minutes difference in seating times.

 

If you have not previously done this way I recommend as was not complicated at all. Enjoy your cruises

When we did this on FR last January, we had a party of 7 who wanted to dine at 7 PM -- same table, same staff. We had our Concierge involved for two weeks and he finally got it resolved (7:30 PM for a great table). He -- Rahul -- was the hero but it still took a lot of work. I think the size of our party and a restaurant manager, who was a big sticky, made it a harder task.

 

If DD is implemented on FR, I will contact Rahul or Bertie and make sure that our wishes are carried out -- one restaurant, same time, same wait staff (have to accommodate 2 husbands that like the "Always Available" menu and the other wife who has a special diet (we will need to go to Special Needs for this). Instructions to the other couple's TA etc. I have a strategy worked out now.

[SherriZ366]

The OP expressed frustration is not being able to book reservations on Quantum. The first reply (post 2) starts with "When you've experience Dynamic Dining, come back and tell us then. Don't shoot something until you've tried it." I call that an attack. They didn't pay for the OP's cruise, so who are they to tell them that. Furthermore, the OP explained their experience with DD so far (with the reservation problems) and prefers Traditional Dining.

 

Also Traditional Dining people are not "whining" about Dynamic Dining. We have legitimate concerns about how Dynamic Dining will affect us.

Totally agree -- the OP is having problems because of the IT department.

 

Thanks for reiterating that folks like us who like Traditional Dining have legitimate concerns and are not whining!!

[SherriZ366]

I've not seen anything I would characterize as a personal attack on this thread. I have seen vigorous debate with many people stating their opinions. I do not consider disagreement to be a personal attack.

Pro-Traditional dining folks' opinions have been characterized as "whining" -- pretty personal to me.