What will Island Princess look like after May 2015?

[likeadisguise]

Here's an interesting experiment -- go to the Princess website, and search for cruises on Island after the refit for 2 passengers. Then change the search to 3 passengers, and suddenly the entire Mediterranean season is sold out.

[Colo Cruiser]

That happens to most popular cruises for the 3rd and 4th passenger on any ship. The cruises are capacity controlled and there are not a ton of 3rd and 4th berths anyway.

[Astro Flyer]

After reading the recent posts I have a few comments.

 

• Articles I've read since the ship size limits were rescinded said that CLIA affiliated cruise lines including Princess would voluntarily follow those limits until a new approach could be built. Thus they'll use the Island for Venice & I'm doubtful if the changes would be modified so close to the drydock.
  

• The Island is 15% larger than Sun-class ships yet both carry the same number of passengers. If the Island's passenger capacity increases by 220 that's an 11% increase in passengers & about the same as Sun-class ships which I have not sailed since 2000.
  

 

These are a few things that are facts however they could have increased capacity without removing or making all of the things already mentioned worse. The Sun-class & Island both have 2 restaurants however I don't recall how crowded it was on the Dawn 15 years ago (before AT dining). I do have recent experience with AT dining on the Island & Coral and it was the only time we had to wait 45 minutes with a pager to get seated at any size of table.

 

I doubt if Princess would make these changes without increasing capacity by 220 passengers. Based on what I've read the capacity is based on lower berths & they may have enough extra lifeboat capacity or will add life rafts.

 

An indication to me that Princess now realizes that these are very unpopular changes is that I could no longer find anything on the Princess site promoting these changes. However none of the new points being discussed have changed my mind that the changes were poorly done & nothing is being done to improve the Island except for those who will enjoy the new cabins at the expense of a less enjoyable cruise for the other passengers who do things like go to shows, go to the gym or eat in the dining rooms.

 

As I previously posted I've been on the Island and Coral many times and do not need to experience the changes being made to the Island to know that I will not like them and that the Island will now be at the bottom of the barrel when it comes to a Princess cruise. I've been fortunate to have already experienced sailing in and out of Venice (Crown & Royal) and if we want to do it again it'll be on another cruise line and not on the Island Princess.

 

It's merely my opinion & each of us will draw our own conclusions but it appears that others have similar opinions...awful! :eek: They've taken a beautiful ship & given it an ugly facelift! :rolleyes:

Edited January 31, 2015 by Astro Flyer

[caribill]

After reading the recent posts I have a few comments.

 

• Articles I've read since the ship size limits were rescinded said that CLIA affiliated cruise lines including Princess would voluntarily follow those limits until a new approach could be built. Thus they'll use the Island for Venice & I'm doubtful if the changes would be modified so close to the drydock.
  

 

The Island could have sailed into and out of Venice without any of these changes, so Venice should not be bused as an excuse to make them.

[dmwnc1959]

The Island could have sailed into and out of Venice without any of these changes, so Venice should not be bused as an excuse to make them.

 

 

No one is questioning that the Island Princess could have sailed in and out of Venice without making these significant changes. However, when Princess Cruises pulled Regal Princess from the Mediterranean and put her in Northern Europe they replaced her with a ship that has a much smaller passenger capacity. Are the changes being made to increase berth capacity to make up for lost revenue?

 

Now, with this new line of thought that all of these changes won't really increase that passenger load that much (we aren't 100% sure yet what the increase will be based on possible reductions in 3rd/4th passengers), why bother making these changes at all? They are still taking away large public areas, reducing the size of some, and restricting access to exterior public spaces, all to add 110+ brand new staterooms and suites.

 

:D

Edited February 1, 2015 by dmwnc1959

[dmwnc1959]

Since they don't appear to be adding any more lifeboats, they can't be increasing the passenger capacity that much.

 

 

All of the ships that I've seen undergo major refits, including some of those that were cut and stretched, didn't always add lifeboats, but added life saving equipment like inflatable rafts or a Marine Evacuation System similar to what the Royal-class has, which takes up very little deck space yet can accommodate up to 430 people. So not adding actual lifeboats isn't an indicator of not increasing the passenger capacity of the Island Princess.

 

:D

Edited February 1, 2015 by dmwnc1959

[IECalCruiser]

No one is questioning that the Island Princess could have sailed in and out of Venice without making these significant changes. However, when Princess Cruises pulled Regal Princess from the Mediterranean and put her in Northern Europe they replaced her with a ship that has a much smaller passenger capacity. Are the changes being made to increase berth capacity to make up for lost revenue?

 

Now, with this new line of thought that all of these changes won't really increase that passenger load that much (we aren't 100% sure yet what the increase will be based on possible reductions in 3rd/4th passengers), why bother making these changes at all? They are still taking away large public areas, reducing the size of some, and restricting access to exterior public spaces, all to add 110+ brand new staterooms and suites.

 

:D

The 3rd/4th passengers typically pay 50%/60% of the first two passengers. Even if those cabins only offset the 3rd/4th passengers, income from those passengers would be increased by 80%/100%. They're are also adding eleven suites which are typically double the cost of mini-suites. I am assuming there with be some net addition of passengers but even if that wasn't the case, those 110+ cabins will generate significantly more revenue. When Skywalker's was eliminated on the Grand it was replaced with the One5. Not as nice as Skywalker's but at least the venue wasn't lost entirely. There should be some sore of offsetting venue added to the Island.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Forums mobile app

[dmwnc1959]

The 3rd/4th passengers typically pay 50%/60% of the first two passengers. Even if those cabins only offset the 3rd/4th passengers, income from those passengers would be increased by 80%/100%. They're are also adding eleven suites which are typically double the cost of mini-suites. I am assuming there with be some net addition of passengers but even if that wasn't the case, those 110+ cabins will generate significantly more revenue. When Skywalker's was eliminated on the Grand it was replaced with the One5. Not as nice as Skywalker's but at least the venue wasn't lost entirely. There should be some sore of offsetting venue added to the Island.

 

 

Hi Brian,

 

I had thought of that also; the increase in revenue generated from a lot more of the Passenger 1 and 2 rates, versus that being paid by Passenger 3 and 4 rates. But does this all boil down to 'increasing revue' for revue's sake? Would they have done these drastic changes, and added over 110 staterooms and suites, had Island Princess not been redeployed from her West Coast and Panama Canal duties to the Mediterranean to replace Regal Princess?

 

:confused:

[caribill]

Hi Brian,

 

I had thought of that also; the increase in revenue generated from a lot more of the Passenger 1 and 2 rates, versus that being paid by Passenger 3 and 4 rates.

 

 

It has only been speculation on this thread that some of the 3rd and 4th berths would be eliminated. I do not think that will occur.

 

If there are 110+ cabins being added, then there will be 220+ additional lower berths to add to the existing lower berth capacity of 1974. And the maximum capacity of the ship will be that plus the existing 3rd and 4th berths.

[Thumper69]

\

 

OMG Can you say DRACONIAN CHANGES one more time????

 

I for one am excited about my 2016 cruise on the Island as I was able to book one of the new Aft corner Lido Suites!!! The size and shape look spectacular and cant wait to sail through the canal on her in my comfy big suite.

 

I booked because of the new aft suites as well. L721 in fact with my mother-in-law next door in the vista suite. Might be the same cruise. Maybe we can meet up for a martini on our draconian wrap around balconies.

 

Brisbane41. How many times have you sailed on the Island? Just curious.

[LabGuy64]

When it comes down to it, does it matter why the changes were implimented?.....Revenue for revenue's sake is why all corporations exist. The ONLY real reason.

The services and or goods they produce are for revenue...or more specifically profit.

Perhaps, since the changes are GOING to happen, and in the way Princess has determined ....right or wrongly....that is best for the line...you might use your energies thinking about possible actual improvements that might come from the refit rather than bemoaning the "butchering" of the poor Island....I can't believe the ONLY "upgrade" are the revenue grubbing additional cabins. Surely there must be something that the future cruisers would appreciate aesthetically and functionally on the new version of the Island.

 

Hi Brian,

 

I had thought of that also; the increase in revenue generated from a lot more of the Passenger 1 and 2 rates, versus that being paid by Passenger 3 and 4 rates. But does this all boil down to 'increasing revue' for revue's sake? Would they have done these drastic changes, and added over 110 staterooms and suites, had Island Princess not been redeployed from her West Coast and Panama Canal duties to the Mediterranean to replace Regal Princess?

 

:confused:

[dmwnc1959]

Perhaps, since the changes are GOING to happen, and in the way Princess has determined ....right or wrongly....that is best for the line...you might use your energies thinking about possible actual improvements that might come from the refit rather than bemoaning the "butchering" of the poor Island....I can't believe the ONLY "upgrade" are the revenue grubbing additional cabins. Surely there must be something that the future cruisers would appreciate aesthetically and functionally on the new version of the Island.

 

 

So, I've studied and scanned both the pre- and post-refit deck plans....

 

Let's see: improvements? Hmmmmm....

 

1) - A slightly expanded and redesigned Horizon Court

2) - Looks like an International Cafe will replace La Patisserie

3) - Expanded Sanctuary

4) - And that's it

 

Literally EVERYTHING ELSE is a 'non-improvement':

 

1) - The compete removal of a major entertainment venue (the Universe Lounge)

2) - Reduction in size of a major onboard revenue generator (casino)

3) - The loss of all aft public viewing access on Promenade, Dolphin, Caribe, and Baja Decks

4) - An exercise and aerobics venue with NO windows to the outside

5) - No additional dining or entertainment venues

6) - No public spaces getting larger

7) - 110+ added staterooms and suites.

 

Now it's your turn. YOU compare both deck plans, and tell me if I missed anything. I'll be right here, waiting.

 

:cool:

 

 

P.S. Here's the post by Crystalspin on her Roll Call from November, but it appears her then observations on Crooners and the Churchill Lounge are not correct. I challenge you to find any real 'improvements'.

 

It has come to my attention that our cruise will be nine months after a DRASTIC dry-dock on the Island Princess. I went here:

 

http://www.princess.com/deckPlans.do?shipCode=IP

 

and brought up both plans and went through them segment by segment. These are the changes that will be in effect by our cruise:

 

CHANGES ON THE ISLAND PRINCESS DURING APRIL/MAY 2015 DRYDOCK, AS SEEN IN “pre-released” DECK PLANS.

 

Sky -- no real change.

 

Sun – Sanctuary area at aft is a bit bigger – extends farther back over the new extensions below?

 

Lido -- loses fitness center, gym, aerobics and the Sanctuary. Gets small "teen center" with no windows, plus 19 balconies and 5 suites.

 

Aloha -- Youth center being extremely cut down! it will be in the center with no windows/deck at all. Getting 13 more balconies and 4 suites.

 

Baja -- being extended in the stern --losing 2 aft-facing OVs; getting 2 aft-corner suites, 4 aft-facing balconies, 2 additional standard balconies and 2 additional "sideways?" insides.

 

Caribe -- getting 2 suites near-but-not-facing the aft (and other cabins being rearranged somewhat)

 

Dolphin -- getting 2 sideways obstructed-view OVs right at the aft.

 

Emerald -- no change in cabins. The card room will be to starboard and smaller, current card room will be “shore excursions” and “future cruise sales”.

 

NO ADDITIONAL LIFE BOATS.

 

Promenade -- losing Universe Lounge (upper level) -- getting 2 large aft suites, 2 aft-facing OVs, 16 balconies, 8 insides. Crooners bar will reach across deck to the area currently labelled “Churchill Lounge”; Churchill Lounge moves to port and forward a little, looks a little bigger. Wheelhouse Bar and the theater unchanged in dimensions.

 

NOTE: the Promenade (deck) will no longer have a promenade (full circle) because all the new balconies take the place of the aft boardwalk.:confused:

 

Fiesta -- casino is shrinking on the port side to allow addition of 13 OVs. Also the photo gallery will be moving INTO the already smaller casino! Losing lower level of Universe Lounge, getting 22 side-facing and 4 aft-facing OVs, with the new Fitness Center and Aerobics room in the center area.

 

Plaza – Where currently labelled Shore Excursions/Future Cruises/Circle desk, in the new plan are labelled (nothing)/Captains Circle/(nothing) respectively. Passenger Services and Patisserie are labelled the same. And the central atrium area is still labelled Princess Plaza.

 

Gala -- no change.

 

The rumored INTERNATIONAL CAFÉ is not identified. Will it be the "new" Patisserie?

 

There are by my count, 120 additional staterooms and suites.

 

:D

Edited February 1, 2015 by dmwnc1959

[pablo222]

Literally EVERYTHING ELSE is a 'non-improvement'

 

This will have to have a huge, negative impact on anytime dining.

[dmwnc1959]

This will have to have a huge, negative impact on anytime dining.

 

 

It's like I hinted at in a previous post: they could have repurposed the space occupied by Universe Lounge to just about anything. The Celebrity Solstice-class ships have this wonderful trio of specialty restaurants on Deck 5 aft. Princess Cruises could have done the same, but relocated Sabatini's (and expanded it) as well as done the same for the steak house, plus added another dining venue (like RCI's 150 Central Park on the Oasis-class) or maybe even a pre-dinner lounge similar to Adagio found on the Grand-class. The refit was designed by someone with no imagination other than to cram in as many additional cabins as they could.

 

:cool:

[LabGuy64]

Even if ALL you say is true.....and the designs work out as you fear they will?.....I don't really see the point....maybe Princess is ruining the Island....that it will never be as good as it is now. But all the hair pulling and hand wringing will accomplish nothing.

Either accept what she will be....and try to enjoy cruising on her.....or don't and show princess their error in the only real way you can...by booking elsewhere....It won't help the Island......that ship has sailed ..so to speak but, it may influence future refit decisions

 

 

 

So, I've studied and scanned both the pre- and post-refit deck plans....

 

Let's see: improvements? Hmmmmm....

 

1) - A slightly expanded and redesigned Horizon Court

2) - Looks like an International Cafe will replace La Patisserie

3) - Expanded Sanctuary

4) - And that's it

 

Literally EVERYTHING ELSE is a 'non-improvement':

 

1) - The compete removal of a major entertainment venue (the Universe Lounge)

2) - Reduction in size of a major onboard revenue generator (casino)

3) - The loss of all aft public viewing access on Promenade, Dolphin, Caribe, and Baja Decks

4) - An exercise and aerobics venue with NO windows to the outside

5) - No additional dining or entertainment venues

6) - No public spaces getting larger

7) - 110+ added staterooms and suites.

 

Now it's your turn. YOU compare both deck plans, and tell me if I missed anything. I'll be right here, waiting.

 

:cool:

 

 

P.S. Here's the post by Crystalspin on her Roll Call from November, but it appears her then observations on Crooners and the Churchill Lounge are not correct. I challenge you to find any real 'improvements'.

 

 

 

:D

[LabGuy64]

You may have hit it exactly....and Princess may have just mandated that the designed maximize cabins........I have mentioned onother threads that Princess SEEMS to be moving farther and farther from a luxury cruise experiance....I realize they are not a "luxury" line but they do seem to be stripping out what was there......removing the Grand Suites in the later Grand class ships.....look at the decor in the Owners, Penthouse and Vista suites.......VERY bland...run of the mill...NOTHING special...Where are the BIG flatscreens that the othr lines have in their upper end suites......look at the suite perks in the upper end suites.....other lines like Celebrity are expanding them....look at the packages in the Penthouse and Royal suite....they are..forgive me...sweet....and the other levels of suites get a bit too.....it is MUCH better than what pricess s giving......they seem to be moving to be the econolodge of cruise lines

 

 

It's like I hinted at in a previous post: they could have repurposed the space occupied by Universe Lounge to just about anything. The Celebrity Solstice-class ships have this wonderful trio of specialty restaurants on Deck 5 aft. Princess Cruises could have done the same, but relocated Sabatini's (and expanded it) as well as done the same for the steak house, plus added another dining venue (like RCI's 150 Central Park on the Oasis-class) or maybe even a pre-dinner lounge similar to Adagio found on the Grand-class. The refit was designed by someone with no imagination other than to cram in as many additional cabins as they could.

 

:cool:

[dmwnc1959]

Even if ALL you say is true.....and the designs work out as you fear they will?.....I don't really see the point....maybe Princess is ruining the Island....that it will never be as good as it is now. But all the hair pulling and hand wringing will accomplish nothing.

Either accept what she will be....and try to enjoy cruising on her.....or don't and show princess their error in the only real way you can...by booking elsewhere....It won't help the Island......that ship has sailed ..so to speak but, it may influence future refit decisions

 

 

Well, I can tell you one thing for sure, there's definitely NO hair pulling and hand wringing on this end. lol ;)

 

But facts are facts, and people are using their 'wallet votes' and walking away. I had actually been looking at a Panama Canal cruise on Island Princess (see Post #4) but will not be choosing Princess Cruises because of the changes being made.

 

However, others will not cancel, others will make new bookings, and despite the reduction of public space, increase in passenger load, and lack of additional services to the passengers occupying the new 110+ cabins, they'll still 'enjoy' their cruise. Good for them.

 

:D

[dmwnc1959]

You may have hit it exactly....

 

I've never been overly impressed with the pictures I've seen of the suites on Princess Cruises ships when compared to those of Celebrity Cruises, Holland-America, and even NCL. Those lines seem to keep moving up - both in their suite accommodations and suite benefits - and Princess seems to have just stagnated, moved more into a generic mass-market appeal of playing it safe. Maybe that works for some people?

 

:D

[LabGuy64]

SHRUG....some poeple like econolodge....go figure

 

 

Well, I can tell you one thing for sure, there's definitely NO hair pulling and hand wringing on this end. lol ;)

 

But facts are facts, and people are using their 'wallet votes' and walking away. I had actually been looking at a Panama Canal cruise on Island Princess (see Post #4) but will not be choosing Princess Cruises because of the changes being made.

 

However, others will not cancel, others will make new bookings, and despite the reduction of public space, increase in passenger load, and lack of additional services to the passengers occupying the new 110+ cabins, they'll still 'enjoy' their cruise. Good for them.

 

:D

[Astro Flyer]

I've already posted my thoughts in detail & have enjoyed sailing the Island & Coral several times. I do not need to sail the modified Island to know that I will not like the changes & thus have no plans to sail this once great ship. That's merely my opinion however others apparently feel similarly; the only positive posts I've read are from those who will benefit from the aft suites.

 

As previously posted, I understand the need to increase income however they could have done a better job than to make a few passengers happy while 90% of the other passengers have a less desirable ship. Princess doesn't care if I will no longer sail on the Island however if bookings significantly drop resulting in lower prices then they'll understand the adverse effects of these changes. Although some of that loss of income may be offset by more demand & higher prices for the Coral. ;)

[IECalCruiser]

So, I've studied and scanned both the pre- and post-refit deck plans....

 

Let's see: improvements? Hmmmmm....

 

1) - A slightly expanded and redesigned Horizon Court

2) - Looks like an International Cafe will replace La Patisserie

3) - Expanded Sanctuary

4) - And that's it

 

Literally EVERYTHING ELSE is a 'non-improvement':

 

1) - The compete removal of a major entertainment venue (the Universe Lounge)

2) - Reduction in size of a major onboard revenue generator (casino)

3) - The loss of all aft public viewing access on Promenade, Dolphin, Caribe, and Baja Decks

4) - An exercise and aerobics venue with NO windows to the outside

5) - No additional dining or entertainment venues

6) - No public spaces getting larger

7) - 110+ added staterooms and suites.

 

Now it's your turn. YOU compare both deck plans, and tell me if I missed anything. I'll be right here, waiting.

 

:cool:

 

 

P.S. Here's the post by Crystalspin on her Roll Call from November, but it appears her then observations on Crooners and the Churchill Lounge are not correct. I challenge you to find any real 'improvements'.

 

:D

Good summary. It does appear that the only reason for the changes is to increase revenue on one of the two largest Princess ships that per the voluntary CLIA agreement can currently sail up the Giudecca Canal to the Venice Cruise Port. They will eventually dredge a new channel from the West to allow larger ships but Princess must believe that will be many years away. The opening of the new Panama Canal locks in 2015, 2016 or whatever the best guess is will happen well before that. Most if not all of the Grand class ships will be able to transit the canal and one or both of the two Panamax twins (Coral and Island) will be available for other deployments.

 

I just wish we at least got a new public space out of the deal. I have enjoyed the unique shows designed for the three rotating stages in the Universe Lounge. Well maybe not the Adrian Zmed show that much! However many of the sight lines in the UL are pretty poor, especially in the upper level. I will not mourn the loss of the UL that much but as I posted before I wish there was a new venue in return.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Cruise Critic Forums mobile app

[caribill]

So, I've studied and scanned both the pre- and post-refit deck plans....

 

Let's see: improvements? Hmmmmm....

 

1) - A slightly expanded and redesigned Horizon Court

2) - Looks like an International Cafe will replace La Patisserie

3) - Expanded Sanctuary

4) - And that's it

 

 

Since the new deck plans do not show an IC, I assume it will not be there.

[IECalCruiser]

Since the new deck plans do not show an IC, I assume it will not be there.

Major drydocks don't always occur as planned. A few years ago the Cruise Atlas showed the Sapphire after the planned drydock but a number of the changes shown the the Cruise Atlas were not actually made during the drydock. The difference here is that they are showing new cabins that are available for booking. We still mainly book for the itinerary rather than the ship and would not hesitate to book the post drydock Island, warts and all, for the right itinerary.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Forums mobile app

[Brisbane41]

When it comes down to it, does it matter why the changes were implimented?.....Revenue for revenue's sake is why all corporations exist. The ONLY real reason.

The services and or goods they produce are for revenue...or more specifically profit.

Perhaps, since the changes are GOING to happen, and in the way Princess has determined ....right or wrongly....that is best for the line...you might use your energies thinking about possible actual improvements that might come from the refit rather than bemoaning the "butchering" of the poor Island....I can't believe the ONLY "upgrade" are the revenue grubbing additional cabins. Surely there must be something that the future cruisers would appreciate aesthetically and functionally on the new version of the Island.

 

No there is nothing positive that can be found. No matter what spin you put on it the changes are draconian, bad for cruising, detracts from the cruise experience and insults the passengers and treats them like garbage. It is a disrespectful act to loyal passengers to do this.

 

If Princess does not care about what passengers think why should we care about promoting them or putting a positive spin on poor choices.

 

There is no way in hell I am ever going to blow sunshine up their way and make everything appear great when it is the contrary.

[Brisbane41]

SHRUG....some poeple like econolodge....go figure

 

I think its a case of well seasoned travellers will not tolerate mediocrity, poor decisions and things being taken away. Please don't insult our intelligence or suggest we should be elated at what little we poor miserable undeserving human beings get. In fact we are just their customers, we don't even deserve a cabin, hell we don't even deserve to cruise. Lets just throw them our money, go back to work and not bother going on holidays. I guess that's how we ungrateful undeserving passengers should be. we are nothing but dirt that should be jumping for joy at the idea of having a simple basic cabin. besides we are just the simple fools that have made them rich. Let them take our money, let them kick us up the pants and thank them for it and beg for more.

Edited February 2, 2015 by Brisbane41