Quantum of the seas nickel and dime-ing going too far?

[bob brown]

So that was it? No intended gold card priority?...

Perhaps they should go "low-tech", and replace the RFI receiver's with the universal "Fire Service" keys that shoreside elevators employ for emergency responders?...:confused:

[bob brown]

Prior to this experience, the only use of a room card on a shipboard elevator that I have seen, was to allow holder's of certain suites access to their floors on certain elevator's on the Queen Mary 2, and also some Haven suites on NCL, but this did not give them any priority over the operation itself...

Edited December 21, 2014 by bob brown

[mcatmcat]

I think all the ship will follow the same idea, you just have to be smart and don't get caught with the system.

I really like when my final bill at the door it has somewhere between 2-4 transactions only.

Prepaid gratuities from TA, don't drink alcohol at all, don't buy any gifts at sea.

 

 

Sent using the Cruise Critic forums app

[loubetti]

My good people,

 

Cruising is changing. Bigger ships, more options, and fare prices that are less than they were 20+ years ago.

 

Now, the cruise lines are building billion$+ ships, and offering more on board amenities, some free some not. They use economies of scale to keep the fares low, but you are on a moving resort that costs a lot of money to operate. They have to make money someowhere to keep the shareholders happy! Economies of scale alone won't do it.

 

I just thought I'd do a little comparison. Land vacation vs cruise.

 

I selected a hotel I am familiar with over several visits, the Caribe Hilton in San Juan, PR. It is a resort hotel, with big pool, private beach, several restaurants and bars, spa/gym, and is the second largest hotel in Puerto Rico.

 

I priced a king bed room with balcony from 1/17-1/13 2015 (7 nights). Total cost with taxes and resort fees was about $2941 for two, without ANYTHING for free, and their restaurants and drinks are not cheap. I figure another $1,000 minimum for that, however I can sneak liquor in, but who wants to drink solely in their room?

 

Next, I priced the same dates on OASIS in a Boardwalk balcony cabin (OV balcony was sold out) and the all-in price was 2362.50, and I get free food if I so desire.

 

I could get more detailed but, seriously, cruising is still a great value. The ship is expensive to operate, takes you to different ports, etc. The hotel stays where it is.

 

In 1985 I took my first cruise on Costa Riviera with a friend in a small, obstructed view outside cabin. The ship was some 30,000 tons, and the price for two was around $2200. Oh sure, all the food was free (one MDR was it, plus buffet and pizza place) but we still paid for drinks.

 

Hmmm... am I making any sense here? Me thinks so!

[Ocean Boy]

In 1985 I took my first cruise on Costa Riviera with a friend in a small, obstructed view outside cabin. The ship was some 30,000 tons, and the price for two was around $2200. Oh sure, all the food was free (one MDR was it, plus buffet and pizza place) but we still paid for drinks.

 

Hmmm... am I making any sense here? Me thinks so!

 

What do you think you'd be paying for a cruise now if the capacity was the same as when you cruised in 1985? You are only paying less because supply and demand has set the prices where they are.

[ocav]

The room key frequencies being close to the medical responders is a myth. Room keys and wow bands will all operate on the same frequency, it's the data stored on them that is different, good excuse from RCI as to why they gave gold cards a priority though

[Julesben]

It seems to be a trend that has been discussed on these boards for years. When we took our first cruise in 1993, we have a tiny, dark inside cabin that was not much more than a closet and we paid 999 per person for that cruise. Everything other than shore excursions, spa treatments and alcohol was included. There were no fees for room service, no fee restaurants or fee food. If it was food, it was included. There were no fee areas of the ship and no places, restaurants or lounges that were only for certain passengers. We didn't mind paying 999 per person for our "closet" and loved every minute of the cruise.

 

I just booked a balcony cabin on the Anthem for about that same fare just last week. Considering inflation over the last 20+ years, I am paying much less for my cabin now(a better one) but there are certain restaurants, food, apparently room service that I will have to pay for now, if I want to partake.

 

Sure, I would rather not have to pay for the extras, who wouldn't? I do think the industry is doing a good job of keeping fares affordable while maintaining lots of choices that are included in the fare but making up for it with some "ala carte" pricing for certain things. I think they are striking a good balance between charging a fare then having everything "ala carte" (like a hotel) and charging high fares and including everything. I think there are lines that live at various points along that spectrum.

 

The cruise lines exist to make a profit. I am not going to get mad at them for wanting to profitable, though they do need to please their passengers as a whole.

 

Appreciate your thoughts here, we do have to travel with thousands of others now as opposed to hundreds.

Our quantum cruise sailed with 3500 passengers as oppose the 4900 full occupancy on 1st December, why not full for a new ship with all the publicity?

[boulders]

My good people,

 

Cruising is changing. Bigger ships, more options, and fare prices that are less than they were 20+ years ago.

 

Now, the cruise lines are building billion$+ ships, and offering more on board amenities, some free some not. They use economies of scale to keep the fares low, but you are on a moving resort that costs a lot of money to operate. They have to make money someowhere to keep the shareholders happy! Economies of scale alone won't do it.

 

I just thought I'd do a little comparison. Land vacation vs cruise.

 

I selected a hotel I am familiar with over several visits, the Caribe Hilton in San Juan, PR. It is a resort hotel, with big pool, private beach, several restaurants and bars, spa/gym, and is the second largest hotel in Puerto Rico.

 

I priced a king bed room with balcony from 1/17-1/13 2015 (7 nights). Total cost with taxes and resort fees was about $2941 for two, without ANYTHING for free, and their restaurants and drinks are not cheap. I figure another $1,000 minimum for that, however I can sneak liquor in, but who wants to drink solely in their room?

 

Next, I priced the same dates on OASIS in a Boardwalk balcony cabin (OV balcony was sold out) and the all-in price was 2362.50, and I get free food if I so desire.

 

I could get more detailed but, seriously, cruising is still a great value. The ship is expensive to operate, takes you to different ports, etc. The hotel stays where it is.

 

In 1985 I took my first cruise on Costa Riviera with a friend in a small, obstructed view outside cabin. The ship was some 30,000 tons, and the price for two was around $2200. Oh sure, all the food was free (one MDR was it, plus buffet and pizza place) but we still paid for drinks.

 

Hmmm... am I making any sense here? Me thinks so!

 

That hotel room is twice the size of the boardwalk balcony. A better comparison might be a junior suite or grand suite. Those generally go for $5-7K. You also get wifi included with the hotel. You are free to go out of the hotel and purchase your drinks/snacks/meals at any other location. You are a captive audience on a cruise ship. If you want to eat - you have to eat what is available on the ship. There's no shopping around. Hotels also operate at lower occupancy rates than cruise ships do, so your hotel nightly rate is taking into account that 20-50% of the rooms are unoccupied at any one time.

[loubetti]

What do you think you'd be paying for a cruise now if the capacity was the same as when you cruised in 1985? You are only paying less because supply and demand has set the prices where they are.

 

Uh...duh! :D

 

I said, economy of scale with larger ships, and obviously increased demand. They need the larger ships. Not so sure how many know what economy of scale means.

 

Quick lesson: One captain and other executive officers for 1200 pax, or the same for 5,000. Of course, they also cut back on staff, and probably on free food quality.

[loubetti]

That hotel room is twice the size of the boardwalk balcony. A better comparison might be a junior suite or grand suite. Those generally go for $5-7K. You also get wifi included with the hotel. You are free to go out of the hotel and purchase your drinks/snacks/meals at any other location. You are a captive audience on a cruise ship. If you want to eat - you have to eat what is available on the ship. There's no shopping around. Hotels also operate at lower occupancy rates than cruise ships do, so your hotel nightly rate is taking into account that 20-50% of the rooms are unoccupied at any one time.

 

Do not agree at all. Does the hotel take you to different destinations? Does the hotel offer some free food (yeah, some chains offer breakfast, but I'm speaking about a different class of hotel)? Can you not purchase food when on shore with the ship?

 

I can assure you that any hotel prices like the cruise lines do. It is called yield management. They want to be full just like the cruise lines and airlines do, and adjust nightly rates accordingly. 20-50% empty? The general manager would not have their job for long!

Edited December 21, 2014 by loubetti

[Julesben]

I'm sorry to hear this. We were on the 11/23 and 12/1 cruises and never had a problem with our dining times.

 

Hi Patti,

 

You are very privileged if you didn't have any issues with the dining experience.

 

Let me tell you a little bit about our situation on Quantum recently and then you can tell me if I'm barking on about nothing, it goes like this;

 

American Icon (for breakfast)

My wife's eggs benedict was cold.

On another occasion my breakfast didn't turn up at all.

The last time we used this venue it tool 1 hour for breakfast to arrive.

 

Grande restaurant was like the main dining room and we enjoyed that on two occasions.

 

Chops Grille

For the first time ever in my life I found my self having to leave our table in a restaurant, we both ordered mushroom Soup, crab cake and fillet Mignon.

The put way too much salt in it, even to the point my wife who likes salt couldn't have it either, the crab cake came and at best was Luke warm.we sat down at 9pm, the waiter came over at 10:10 to tell us the were behind on the tickets and it would be another 15mins for our main course, normally never an issue but seeing as things weren't going to good from the start we decided enough was enough. Bear in mind the restaurant was about 1/3 full at this time.

We tried bringing it to the managers (Catherine) attention but she couldn't concentrate on what I was saying trying to oversea other things happening behind us. We were saying before the cruise that Chops never fails.

 

We used Jamie's restaurant 3 times near the end of cruise as we couldn't get in the complimentary restaurants.

 

Chic was nice and worth a visit,

 

Silk on the occasion we were there was a bit of a let down with greasy foods and slow service.

 

We think Rccl have come up with something that is going to cause people great concerns when booking dining venues.

 

Be interesting to see which way this one goes.

[LetsGetWet!]

Something like that was tried, and failed a few years ago...anybody remember "Easycruise"? :)

Of course, back then it was a radical concept, but perhaps the current trend will indeed lead up to that....

As I said - you couldn't do it suddenly, all at once. You'd alienate too many customers & lose too much business. But if you ease into it with lots of little steps over several years, the customers become accustomed to and accept it. It's the proven "how to successfully boil a live frog" strategy.

[Julesben]

If this continues we will end this year more in agreement than not:cool:

 

My long term thoughts too, unles numbers fall, it's the only way you will stop that ruthless lot in Miami.

 

I'll never pay for a cruise and then be forced to pay every night in a restaurant.

[Debde]

As I said - you couldn't do it suddenly, all at once. You'd alienate too many customers & lose too much business. But if you ease into it with lots of little steps over several years, the customers become accustomed to and accept it. It's the proven "how to successfully boil a live frog" strategy.

 

Ahhh- just rip that band aid right off and fast!!!:p;)

[LetsGetWet!]

And much of the reason why I don't really care how high I get up the C&A ladder is that I am fairly sure that in a few years cruising is not going to appeal to me any longer... and least not the RCI model. I certainly would not spend more money on a suite just to get extra points and move up faster as some people have posted they do.

Agreed. I'm not the kind to waste much time wringing my hands & whining about it, but like you, the directions I see the cruise lines like RCI taking things will most likely make them less & less attractive to us over time.

[LMaxwell]

As I said - you couldn't do it suddenly, all at once. You'd alienate too many customers & lose too much business. But if you ease into it with lots of little steps over several years, the customers become accustomed to and accept it. It's the proven "how to successfully boil a live frog" strategy.

What says you? 20 years? Seems about the gestation period to me, a bit more than halfway there now. Think back to 2000, the much better included food, midnight buffets, free Johnny Rockets, etc. Think where we are now. The future seems clear. Maybe 25 years? Need to get rid of older tonnage that can never accommodate DD.

 

Death by 1000 cuts. Can never identify the mortal one...

[Ann262]

Appreciate your thoughts here, we do have to travel with thousands of others now as opposed to hundreds.

Our quantum cruise sailed with 3500 passengers as oppose the 4900 full occupancy on 1st December, why not full for a new ship with all the publicity?

 

There could be many reasons for that. Consider that marketers try a lot of things. Some things work well, some not so well so they get scrapped. In the case of the sailing you were on, many cruisers avoid ships so near to their inaugural cruise because there are bound to be many kinks to work out. I am one of those. Give it at least 6 months, then let me board. Another reason might be the time of year. That is a notable low week. There are lots of reasons your ship might not have been full that had nothing to do with fee restaurants or fees for room service. Don't you think?

[Julesben]

You make martinis with Jack Daniels?

 

BTW, read of a blind taste test of 21 vodkas conducted by the New York Times in 2005 (you can google it). The winner was, "hands down", Smirnoff. Grey Goose did not make the top 10. So, if you're concerned about saving money on a cruise and like vodka, go cheap.

 

Agree.

[LetsGetWet!]

What says you? 20 years? Seems about the gestation period to me, a bit more than halfway there now. Think back to 2000, the much better included food, midnight buffets, free Johnny Rockets, etc. Think where we are now. The future seems clear. Maybe 25 years? Need to get rid of older tonnage that can never accommodate DD.

 

Death by 1000 cuts. Can never identify the mortal one...

Yep. I've predicted earlier this year that it will likely be more than 5 but less than 10 years away. So somewhere between 2019 & 2024. Agree we're probably more than half way there, and 20-25 years total to accomplish it jibes well with the time frame I predict, given your suggestion that it started inching that direction around 2000.

[Julesben]

I was on the 12 December cruise...we had around 4,260 passenger's, and did not experience any difficulty, although we did dine very early (5:30 PM)...

 

One more thing...even with the Dynamic Dining, we had a virtual "traditional" dining experience....we sat at table number 135 at the Grande all eight nights of our cruise and were treated very nicely by our regular waitress.:)

 

We're very happy it worked out for you Bob, not everyone can say the same on here though.

[Raxter54]

Appreciate your thoughts here, we do have to travel with thousands of others now as opposed to hundreds.

Our quantum cruise sailed with 3500 passengers as oppose the 4900 full occupancy on 1st December, why not full for a new ship with all the publicity?

 

The 2 weeks following Thanksgiving are the slowest and least booked times of the year. That's why RCI was advertising interior rooms of $179 for the Dec 6 Caribbean 7 day cruise of the Serenade out of NOLA....

[LetsGetWet!]

What says you? 20 years? Seems about the gestation period to me, a bit more than halfway there now. Think back to 2000, the much better included food, midnight buffets, free Johnny Rockets, etc. Think where we are now. The future seems clear. Maybe 25 years? Need to get rid of older tonnage that can never accommodate DD.

 

Death by 1000 cuts. Can never identify the mortal one...

Further thoughts... I predict the very last "no up charge" venue will be the buffet. It easily has lower labor costs than any restaurant offering table service. Look for a couple incremental name changes over time - I'd not be surprised to see a subtle change from "Windjammer" to "Windjammer Dining Room" at some point, then at a later date replace the "Windjammer" portion of the name with something different that wasn't previously associated with it. That gives them another small step to take - the "Dining Room" (buffet) is still free while the rest of the venues become up-charge, ala carte.

[LMaxwell]

Further thoughts... I predict the very last "no up charge" venue will be the buffet. It easily has lower labor costs than any restaurant offering table service. Look for a couple incremental name changes over time - I'd not be surprised to see a subtle change from "Windjammer" to "Windjammer Dining Room" at some point, then at a later date replace the "Windjammer" portion of the name with something different that wasn't previously associated with it. That gives them another small step to take - the "Dining Room" (buffet) is still free while the rest of the venues become up-charge, ala carte.

 

Would not surprise me. Many of my non-cruising friends think the buffet already IS the only free place. On my Allure cruise I met someone on day 3 who did not know the dining room was included (can't blame Royal for that one) and only thought the buffet and other quick serve places were free.

[Julesben]

The 2 weeks following Thanksgiving are the slowest and least booked times of the year. That's why RCI was advertising interior rooms of $179 for the Dec 6 Caribbean 7 day cruise of the Serenade out of NOLA....

 

I've misled you a bit here, the point I'm trying to make is the ship wasn't full but we had lots of queuing every evening along with problems of booking restaurants too.

It would be interesting to hear how things are going on this weeks sailing.

[Fifermo.]

I loved the Two70 venue and Starwater. They were practicing for another new show all week.

Edited December 21, 2014 by Fifermo.