Insignia Post Fire Location and Movement

[Jancruz]

I have heard it was a very successful sea trial..

Jancruz1

[hondorner]

Just heard from GRG, who is in San Juan on Riviera (with CAG), and they actually saw Insignia on her sea trials. He said she looked great!

[dwgreenlee]

I would bet on the Suez route as well. I looked up the rates, which are based on Suez canal tonnage, which is not quite the same as gross tonnage, closer to net tonnage really. Insignia is 30k+ gross tons, so maybe 25k Suez tons which comes to about $88k (would have been $104k if carrying just one passenger). Panama Canal fee would be about $105k in "ballast", or $132k with passengers. The $88k Suez fee represents only about 150mt of fuel, so the longer Good Hope doesn't pay.

 

Do you happen to know her range? Just wondering if she could go direct from San Juan to a med port (~3500 nmi) w/o stoping for fuel.

[chengkp75]

Do you happen to know her range? Just wondering if she could go direct from San Juan to a med port (~3500 nmi) w/o stoping for fuel.

 

No idea. That mainly depends on fuel tankage. But 3500nm at 18kts is only 8-9 days. The propulsion engines would burn about 60mt of fuel/day at 18kts, add about 10mt for the generators, so 70mt/day for 8 days is 560mt. I suspect her capacity is over 1000mt. 1000mt would give a range of 6000+ nm.

[chengkp75]

I would say she should be able to make Singapore with a bunkering stop between Alexandria and Jeddah.

[Minoushka]

Is it too late to create a cruise ?it would absorb some of the costs regardless if it went thru Suez or Panama ....is this not considered ?

Im sure penty of people would hop on

[hondorner]

Is it too late to create a cruise ?it would absorb some of the costs regardless if it went thru Suez or Panama ....is this not considered ?

Im sure penty of people would hop on

I'm sure there is only a skeleton hotel crew on board. I suspect most of the hotel crew will rejoin in Singapore.

[chengkp75]

Is it too late to create a cruise ?it would absorb some of the costs regardless if it went thru Suez or Panama ....is this not considered ?

Im sure penty of people would hop on

 

As I noted in previous post, if the ship carries even one passenger, the canal fee jumps from the "ballast" to the "laden" rate. I believe they also may not have a full crew onboard since the fire probably resulted in a good portion of the hotel staff going home as completed contract.

 

You would need to generate $16k in cruise revenue just to offset the increase in canal toll.

Edited February 17, 2015 by chengkp75

[LHT28]

You would need to generate $16k in cruise revenue just to offset the increase in canal toll.

 

is 16K = to 16 thousand ??

 

if so.... no problem fill the top suites & money left over for food ;)

[dwgreenlee]

Is it too late to create a cruise ?it would absorb some of the costs regardless if it went thru Suez or Panama ....is this not considered ?

Im sure penty of people would hop on

 

Oceania would have to initiate the offer - and so far they have been silent about the repair status. Other than (1) we know she can make speed under her own power and (2) she looks good from the outside, there is no information on her material conditions.

 

There a lot of issues with carrying passengers - safety at the forefront but also food, and other passengers services. There is no indication they are ready.

[wally_bushy]

No idea. That mainly depends on fuel tankage. But 3500nm at 18kts is only 8-9 days. The propulsion engines would burn about 60mt of fuel/day at 18kts, add about 10mt for the generators, so 70mt/day for 8 days is 560mt. I suspect her capacity is over 1000mt. 1000mt would give a range of 6000+ nm.

 

I am impressed by your knowledge on this topic:)

(this is not sarcasm... it is genuine praise:))

[chengkp75]

I am impressed by your knowledge on this topic:)

(this is not sarcasm... it is genuine praise:))

 

The benefits of 40 years at sea. As we say here in the States: "Please don't tell my mother I'm a Merchant Seaman, she still thinks I play piano in a cathouse"!

[SellaVee]

I am impressed by your knowledge on this topic:)

(this is not sarcasm... it is genuine praise:))

 

+1

 

I could have worked out the 8-9 days - if I'd known the distance - but no idea on the fuel consumption other than lots and lots and lots - and I'd have forgotten about the generators! :confused:

 

Serious question (or two): Is Insignia likely to maintain 18 knots, ie is that an optimum cruising speed without a passenger load, and how much will it depend on the sea state?

[chengkp75]

+1

 

I could have worked out the 8-9 days - if I'd known the distance - but no idea on the fuel consumption other than lots and lots and lots - and I'd have forgotten about the generators! :confused:

 

Serious question (or two): Is Insignia likely to maintain 18 knots, ie is that an optimum cruising speed without a passenger load, and how much will it depend on the sea state?

 

Well, she apparently needs to be in Singapore for embarkation on 20 March, so there is about 31 days. Allowing a day for the Suez transit (12 knots if I remember right), a day for fueling, and at least a day to prepare the ship for passengers, this is about 28 days, which requires about 16 knots. I would expect them to put the pedal down in order to gain a couple of days for recrewing in Singapore, loading stores and food, etc.

 

If the fire hadn't happened, they may have cruised slower, but I'm not sure about whether there was a repo cruise scheduled. The diesels are most efficient at full load, so maximum speed, but fuel consumption also goes up with the square of the speed, so the last couple of knots takes a lot of fuel.

 

Of course, weather conditions will help or hinder the speed, but since they are so close to the deadline for starting the next cruise, they will keep the speed up.

[dwgreenlee]

Well, she apparently needs to be in Singapore for embarkation on 20 March, so there is about 31 days. Allowing a day for the Suez transit (12 knots if I remember right), a day for fueling, and at least a day to prepare the ship for passengers, this is about 28 days, which requires about 16 knots. I would expect them to put the pedal down in order to gain a couple of days for recrewing in Singapore, loading stores and food, etc.

 

If the fire hadn't happened, they may have cruised slower, but I'm not sure about whether there was a repo cruise scheduled. The diesels are most efficient at full load, so maximum speed, but fuel consumption also goes up with the square of the speed, so the last couple of knots takes a lot of fuel.

 

Of course, weather conditions will help or hinder the speed, but since they are so close to the deadline for starting the next cruise, they will keep the speed up.

 

As one more data point, a couple of the hotel crew have indicated they got instructions to report on 3/17 but if it was unclear if that was in Singapore or somewhere in route - 3/17 makes sense to give them a chance to bring the hotel systems back to life. I also quoted you the wrong embark date in Singapore - it is 3/22 - my mistake on that one. Originally, they had a 3-day stay in Singapore 3/21 - 3/23 but now they show only two - 3/22 - 3/23.

 

Insignia is docked in the same spot in San Juan. No info on a departure date or destination. Obviously, the required speed increases as time passes tied up to the pier.

[Jancruz]

Oceania would have to initiate the offer - and so far they have been silent about the repair status. Other than (1) we know she can make speed under her own power and (2) she looks good from the outside, there is no information on her material conditions.

 

She had a very successful sea trial

Jancruz1

[dwgreenlee]

[quote=Jancruz;45654495

She had a very successful sea trial

Jancruz1

 

What systems were tested against what objectives? How many objectives were accomplished and what risks remain to be retired?

[Jancruz]

What systems were tested against what objectives? How many objectives were accomplished and what risks remain to be retired?

 

Sorry, I dont question the Captain if he says it was successful I believe him..

Jancruz1

[dwgreenlee]

Sorry, I dont question the Captain if he says it was successful I believe him..

Jancruz1

 

Am I to understand that the Master of the Insignia reported to you that the sea trial was sucessful? Oceania has reported very little information on the fire and repair process so this is really useful information. More details please.

[Wol]

As one more data point, a couple of the hotel crew have indicated they got instructions to report on 3/17 but if it was unclear if that was in Singapore or somewhere in route - 3/17 makes sense to give them a chance to bring the hotel systems back to life. I also quoted you the wrong embark date in Singapore - it is 3/22 - my mistake on that one. Originally, they had a 3-day stay in Singapore 3/21 - 3/23 but now they show only two - 3/22 - 3/23.

 

Insignia is docked in the same spot in San Juan. No info on a departure date or destination. Obviously, the required speed increases as time passes tied up to the pier.

 

There are several sites that give estimates of transit times (Google Sea Distances.)

 

I have no idea whether they factor in canal transit speeds etc - I suspect they do - but entering 15Kts San Juan - Singapore gives 28 days plus. 17Kts brings it down to just over 25 days.

 

I would expect Insignia to leave San Juan at least before Saturday to be reasonably confident of passengers boarding 22/3/15, given canal transit, rebunkering and total victualling Singapore.

 

Suez is distinctly the quickest route by 2 - 3 days.

[chengkp75]

What systems were tested against what objectives? How many objectives were accomplished and what risks remain to be retired?

 

I surely don't have a direct line to the ship or company, but I'll just throw this out. Because of the fire, the classification society (I think this is GL - Germanischer Lloyd) issues a "condition of class" document which lists the defects that don't meet their requirements for safe navigation. Basically, what a class society does is certify that a ship is safe to operate until the next annual survey by inspecting all aspects of construction and maintenance (think of class societies as insurance underwriters, kind of like UL). So, with a condition of class noting a burned up diesel generator, that would be a "no sail" item. Sea trials would be to test all affected systems, even things that were only tangentially disturbed by the fire or repair, like auxiliary equipment that had electrical cabling renewed due to fire damage. Once everything is tested to the satisfaction of the class surveyor, he will remove the condition of class, and the ship is ready to sail. Generally, in a case like this, the ship wouldn't be allowed to proceed unless virtually everything has been tested satisfactorily. There may be some auxiliary equipment that has sufficient redundancy to allow the ship to sail while repairs are completed underway. This is almost considered routine maintenance, since auxiliary equipment is constantly being taken out of service for maintenance while the ship is in service.

[dwgreenlee]

I surely don't have a direct line to the ship or company, but I'll just throw this out. Because of the fire, the classification society (I think this is GL - Germanischer Lloyd) issues a "condition of class" document which lists the defects that don't meet their requirements for safe navigation. Basically, what a class society does is certify that a ship is safe to operate until the next annual survey by inspecting all aspects of construction and maintenance (think of class societies as insurance underwriters, kind of like UL). So, with a condition of class noting a burned up diesel generator, that would be a "no sail" item. Sea trials would be to test all affected systems, even things that were only tangentially disturbed by the fire or repair, like auxiliary equipment that had electrical cabling renewed due to fire damage. Once everything is tested to the satisfaction of the class surveyor, he will remove the condition of class, and the ship is ready to sail. Generally, in a case like this, the ship wouldn't be allowed to proceed unless virtually everything has been tested satisfactorily. There may be some auxiliary equipment that has sufficient redundancy to allow the ship to sail while repairs are completed underway. This is almost considered routine maintenance, since auxiliary equipment is constantly being taken out of service for maintenance while the ship is in service.

 

As usual your insight is spot on. I would expect that Insignia, given the circumstances, be closely inspected by the USCG (port state) and the flag state/Recognized Organization (Classification Society) as well as Oceania and the new owners NCL Holdings. We do not know if all those inspections were completed during the sea trials but I am extremely confident that Insignia will be one of the safest ships in the world when she embarks new passengers.

 

That said, I support Oceania's decision not to allow passengers on the San Juan to Singapore transit. I am not sure there is a business case for it and there is no evidence, from the sea trial data we have - even accepting the Captain's statement - that all the hotel systems have been fully repaired. For example, the laundry is pretty critical to a successful passenger cruise but would have no bearing on the sea trial. We could debate which systems would be included in the trials but I think I make my point. I would agree with your conclusion that repairing these systems in route would be considered routine maintenance. There may also be further cleaning and cosmetic repairs made in transit.

 

Thanks for identifying the classification society - I was wondering who it was and could not find it on the Internet.

 

The sea trials were good news. The next good news will be when she leaves for Singapore - by this weekend I think.

[chengkp75]

I had to hunt back to one of the previous "identities" of Insignia (don't remember which one) to find the GL classification. That may have changed since then, but it's not real common (costs a lot to switch). I know that NCL tends towards DNV.

[Minoushka]

I met a couple from Key West who were bound for Insignias world tour befote the fire .We met on Marina and they were staying on board until flying to Singapore to join The completion of their world cruise ...not exactly sure how ....to finish in Key west in July .....180 days on board ..wow now thats a cruise

So im sure they are anxiously waiting waiting news on its arrival in Singapore ....for them it was an anniverssary gift ..I think awesome ....wow 180 days on ship ...I cannot even imagine that !!!

So hopefully this ship will arrive on time ..nice people ..wish them well ...calm seas,blue skies good health

[hondorner]

Am I to understand that the Master of the Insignia reported to you that the sea trial was sucessful? Oceania has reported very little information on the fire and repair process so this is really useful information. More details please.

Jan and Captain Flokos (who oversaw the repairs) are good friends. I doubt he "reported" to Jan so much as reassured her the sea trials were successful. He would have no reason to go into detail or to equivocate.