Paying for Zumba; no way

[hcat]

Glad it moved from the pool deck...once or twice by staff as a fun activity is ok but otherwise prefer it to be held in the gym or upstairs club... more fun to have variety like line dancing, etc.

 

Since Zumba involves certified instructors, it is probably better to have a smaller group for a fee, just like other special classes in the gym .

[attilamom1217]

Is Zumba free while on land? I always thought there was some sort of charge/royalty fee paid out to them by businesses that offer the service.

 

Depends on the gym. Both gyms that I have recently belonged to (one I stilll belong to) offer Zumba as part of their basic fee - along with other classes - at no additional charge.

[need2bespoiled]

No Zumba was offered on Millennium in Nov / Dec. Maybe they didn't have a certified instructor. Yoga was $11+ after the first one, as was Pilates. They DID offer a set price package that included all classes, sort of like ultimate dining.

 

A few side notes: United and Conntinetal didn't actually merge until late 2010, not in 2008

 

To the poster who flys 7-10 leisure round trips, I'd recommend an airline credit card that could be free and cost as much as $95 / year but comes with free bags,or fly Southwest of Jet Blue.

 

Cruise critic members, booking well ahead are not an overall large or representative sample of pricing and while individual prices may be increasing, as Curt said, there are many deals to be had. If you take Curts fare chart, and add in the added value such as 123, prices are even more flat.

 

Just like food, entertainment and drink prices, there are many perspective about the benefits or drawbacks of charging for Zumba. If you want an all inclusive vacation, Celebrity is probably not the best fit, but there are choices out there that will include all amenities. It's seems they'll cost more than (all but suites) cabins on Celebrity, but you won't pay for much, if anything. Someone I think you still paid for it.

 

Happy sailing,

Jenna

[The_Big_M]

Do they charge all the time for spin bikes?

 

I was just looking at the menu of services, and spin classes and yoga were among the "complimentary items" listed in it (Zumba was not listed as complimentary). There was a notation that some classes may be for fee, but I was led to believe the spin bikes had lots of open "free" times available.

 

I'm referring to page 32 of the menu of services

 

Yes, even before Canyon Ranch they were charged.

 

They remove the seats when not in use, so nobody gets any other ideas.

[The_Big_M]

This chart is an overall average of all celebrity cruise ships and their cabin fares over time. It's relatively flat,, had a marked increase 2012-2013, and a fall 2013-2014.

 

It shows about a 50% increase since 2010-2011, which is around when Zumba classes were introduced on Celebrity. Certainly more than inflation over that time, not as per your earlier statement.

Edited January 4, 2015 by The_Big_M

[The_Big_M]

I absilutely do believe cruise fares are generally the same they were just one year ago. I do correct in my mind for value added services like Beverages, gratuities and OBC.

...

 

That is part of the fallacy. Cruise lines are bundling them in since the extra revenue is worth more to them than the cost of the perks since, for example OBC might have say a 2:1 value to them and obviously drinks packages are priced above the average usage so they are ahead (and are already based on significant profit to the cost of the raw materials).

 

It's like the old show bag trick advertising $200 of value... except that value is based on a $10off coupon for this, a 10% off coupon for that, a cheap freebie with another purchase and so on...

 

In the end, you're paying more, and getting less (for the dollar).

 

I got an aqua class cabin for $1100 total as a solo this spring in May on Summit to Bermuda, they can go for as much as $3500 for the Bermuda cruise.

 

There are good values to be had, with flexibility and hopefulness built onto a plan. Those not willing to run the risk of losing a favorable preferred cabin and location may not be able to do so. These affect the market factors. I generally sail suites, but found a great buy on an inside this fall so grabbed it.

 

Your conclusion is based on specific sale values. There will always be bargains arising for whatever reason so a specific value may be found by the dedicated, flexible consumer. However, that doesn't prove that prices aren't trending upwards as even your graphs show.

 

However, aside from that, the graph you supplied is not 'official' and I am not certain how they calculate those. I know the site you have gotten that from and have seen mistakes at other times, including the price graphs and updates, so would not take that as 'gospel.'

 

A more accurate example of the trend can be seen in the opening prices of cruises. If you refer to that, you will see a clear upward, above inflation trend.

[Nebr.cruiser]

We cruised on the Eclipse this December. I like Zumba, and really enjoyed the free classes on Princess, although they are crowded. Some were held on the pool deck in the morning, others in the lounge.

 

The Eclipse had a couple of free classes on the pool deck. Very, very crowded, in the middle of a hot afternoon, and really not very good, at least compared to Princess. The rest of the classes were pay; if the pool deck class was any indication, I'd never pay for the 'real' class. Awfully easy and very uninspired music and choreography.

[Christine Frances]

We cruised on the Eclipse this December. I like Zumba, and really enjoyed the free classes on Princess, although they are crowded. Some were held on the pool deck in the morning, others in the lounge.

 

The Eclipse had a couple of free classes on the pool deck. Very, very crowded, in the middle of a hot afternoon, and really not very good, at least compared to Princess. The rest of the classes were pay; if the pool deck class was any indication, I'd never pay for the 'real' class. Awfully easy and very uninspired music and choreography.

 

The free ones at the pool are recreational, fun "keep fit" dance classes not Zumba.

[RDC1]

No Zumba was offered on Millennium in Nov / Dec. Maybe they didn't have a certified instructor. Yoga was $11+ after the first one, as was Pilates. They DID offer a set price package that included all classes, sort of like ultimate dining.

 

A few side notes: United and Conntinetal didn't actually merge until late 2010, not in 2008

 

To the poster who flys 7-10 leisure round trips, I'd recommend an airline credit card that could be free and cost as much as $95 / year but comes with free bags,or fly Southwest of Jet Blue.

 

Cruise critic members, booking well ahead are not an overall large or representative sample of pricing and while individual prices may be increasing, as Curt said, there are many deals to be had. If you take Curts fare chart, and add in the added value such as 123, prices are even more flat.

 

Just like food, entertainment and drink prices, there are many perspective about the benefits or drawbacks of charging for Zumba. If you want an all inclusive vacation, Celebrity is probably not the best fit, but there are choices out there that will include all amenities. It's seems they'll cost more than (all but suites) cabins on Celebrity, but you won't pay for much, if anything. Someone I think you still paid for it.

 

Happy sailing,

Jenna

 

Yes, I used the date at which they announced, agreed to, and started the merger, not the finalization date which did take a while.

 

I have also found airline credit cards to be very worthwhile and generate a better value then cash back cards (atleast how I have used them). Currently hold Alaska, American and United cards. Have flown free to several cruises using miles generated from those cards, as well as many other benefits. Value far outweighs the cost.

Edited January 4, 2015 by RDC1

[cle-guy]

A more accurate example of the trend can be seen in the opening prices of cruises. If you refer to that, you will see a clear upward, above inflation trend.

 

The only real comparison would be to get the Average Daily Rate, which now that I think if it, likely can be gleaned form the RCI annual filings - Cabin revenue divided by passenger cruise days, and look at an annual or quarterly basis. maybe later I'll look to that. However, it would fail to adjust for added value incentives which absolutely have had a bearing on the cabin fares, so I would expect to see some sort of trend up the lat 2 years since X has added 123, but also, they don't separate X from AZ or RCI or its other limited brands. I don't follow RCI sailings enough to know what sort of incentives and how often they offer them to know if they would have a material affect not he calculation.

 

However using opening cruise fare prices as a method of determining, to me is like walking into a car dealer and saying I'll take that one over there, and paying full sticker price, knowing there's always room to negotiate or wait it out to get a more realistic value.

 

Sure some will buy the car for sticker, but most will negotiate, leave and come back some other time and buy it, or one that may now be missing the sun roof since they waited.

 

There are plenty of cruises that started out high in fares, that sell slow, and end up with empty cabins and low fares at sailing, and there are those that start out high and never go down, though generally all cruises I follow have had a decline in cabin fares over time.

 

I think they know there is a certain subset of passengers interested in getting the perfect cabin in perfect location, and will jump at on sale pricing to do so, and by adding in the all-in 123 perks now, if they refare later, they will lose those perks, so the all-in is also a way to stop people from looking for lower fares along the way and using the price match guarantee.

[need2bespoiled]

Yes, I used the date at which they announced, agreed to, and started the merger, not the finalization date which did take a while.

 

 

Talks started in 08, were broken off, United then explored merging with US Air, etc, it was restarted in 2010 and then finalized, with the merger beginning pretty quickly.

 

Reference: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Continental_Holdings

 

Love those airline miles :)

 

Happy sailing,

Jenna

[RDC1]

Talks started in 08, were broken off, United then explored merging with US Air, etc, it was restarted in 2010 and then finalized, with the merger beginning pretty quickly.

 

Reference: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Continental_Holdings

 

Love those airline miles :)

 

Happy sailing,

Jenna

 

Yep, It was broken off due to regulatory resistance (expected to be stopped by the FTC). Restarted after FTC dropped their objections. Even though it was technically broken off, work continued to get FTC approval. Reason why it was able to move quickly once FTC dropped their objections.

Edited January 4, 2015 by RDC1

[Nebr.cruiser]

The free ones at the pool are recreational, fun "keep fit" dance classes not Zumba.

 

They called it 'Zumba' in the daily news sheet, but it definitely wasn't, I'll agree with that.

[TenerifeSharon]

I absilutely do believe cruise fares are generally the same they were just one year ago. I do correct in my mind for value added services like Beverages, gratuities and OBC. That is to say, for a 7 day cruise for 2 in concierge cabin or above booked today, I'd subtract

$686.00 $49.00 x 7 days x 2 people for beverage package

$102.90 Gratuities on Beverage Package

$175.00 Gratuities for 7 days x 2 people @ $12.50/day pp

$200.00 OBC

-----------

$1163.90 total value of incentives

.

 

There is a problem in assuming that these "value added services" are interesting for all cruise passengers. Since DH and I have earned Elite status, we have the evening cocktail offerings included. We are really NOT interested in paying for, nor would we use, what is asserted to be the price for the complete "free" Beverage Package + gratuities for the package. BUT, since they are included in our now "higher priced than 2 years ago" booking, we are ultimately paying more for the cruise. That free beverage package is NOT free, and the other incentives - which are valued at $375 for a 7 night cruise for 2 PAX - don't come close to making up the difference in the cruise price from then to now.

[TeaBag]

There is a problem in assuming that these "value added services" are interesting for all cruise passengers. Since DH and I have earned Elite status, we have the evening cocktail offerings included. We are really NOT interested in paying for, nor would we use, what is asserted to be the price for the complete "free" Beverage Package + gratuities for the package. BUT, since they are included in our now "higher priced than 2 years ago" booking, we are ultimately paying more for the cruise. That free beverage package is NOT free, and the other incentives - which are valued at $375 for a 7 night cruise for 2 PAX - don't come close to making up the difference in the cruise price from then to now.

Well said, Sharon.

[fleckle]

There is a problem in assuming that these "value added services" are interesting for all cruise passengers. Since DH and I have earned Elite status, we have the evening cocktail offerings included. We are really NOT interested in paying for, nor would we use, what is asserted to be the price for the complete "free" Beverage Package + gratuities for the package. BUT, since they are included in our now "higher priced than 2 years ago" booking, we are ultimately paying more for the cruise. That free beverage package is NOT free, and the other incentives - which are valued at $375 for a 7 night cruise for 2 PAX - don't come close to making up the difference in the cruise price from then to now.

We feel the same way. There is an enormous difference between what the cruise line claims their beverage package is worth and what it is actually worth to us.

 

 

One thing we found quite interesting is that they value the beverage package perk as being worth far more than the onboard credit or the prepaid gratuities.

Yet when we asked if we could just have another onboard credit instead of the beverage package as the additional perk, the answer was NO.

 

But those "free" beverage packages are quite an enticement to those who want them as they are apparently continuing to sell a lot of cruises at what, to us, are outrageous prices.

 

Just looking at Alaska cruises and South America cruises, we notice that the prices are so much higher than what we paid only a few years ago, far in excess of the supposed value of the additional perks.

 

[need2bespoiled]

We feel the same way. There is an enormous difference between what the cruise line claims their beverage package is worth and what it is actually worth to us.

 

 

One thing we found quite interesting is that they value the beverage package perk as being worth far more than the onboard credit or the prepaid gratuities.

Yet when we asked if we could just have another onboard credit instead of the beverage package as the additional perk, the answer was NO.

 

But those "free" beverage packages are quite an enticement to those who want them as they are apparently continuing to sell a lot of cruises at what, to us, are outrageous prices.

 

Just looking at Alaska cruises and South America cruises, we notice that the prices are so much higher than what we paid only a few years ago, far in excess of the supposed value of the additional perks.

 

 

I dispute, that the prices of these cruises are only up, in small part due to the cost of the beverage packages. They are up, because there is high demand, and the cabins sell quickly. Supply goes down, prices go up.

 

Whether the beverage packages increase the demand is a separate issue, but the cost of said packages is not what is directly driving the increase in the prices.

 

The value of the packages is set, at what the cruise lines sells it for. The value of what it is worth in cash, is obviously much less. It generally costs the Cruise Line MUCH less to give OBC then to discount a cruise as OBC is redeemed for all types of things that have costs that are much less. Even if you redeem it for cash at the casino, they make 5%

 

Happy sailing,

Jenna

[cle-guy]

 

One thing we found quite interesting is that they value the beverage package perk as being worth far more than the onboard credit or the prepaid gratuities.

Yet when we asked if we could just have another onboard credit instead of the beverage package as the additional perk, the answer was NO

 

 

This is easy, it's because the actual cost to fulfill a beverage package is far less than the price people are charged.

 

Can of Coke Price: $5 -- cost: 12 pack for $2.25 at a grocery store, less for the ship likely to purchase, or 19 cents per can, yes they make $4.81 gross profit on that sale, which to anyone with a beverage package, who enjoys a can of coke is in fact a value, versus paying $5 out of pocket.

 

Typically a bar drink costs the bar about 10% to 15% of its selling price only. So that $13 martini cost them only $1.30, leaving gross profit of $11.70 per drink. Again, Value to the martini drinker with a package of $13 saved from their pocket, be that paid into the cabin fare or paid out as they drink the tasty beverage as they go with no beverage plan.

 

However giving you OBC, means you can actually take the value of that cash out (less 5%) so they have no desire to do this. You could spend in a git shop, and they pay it direct to them (3rd party operator), leaving them no "money" in the table on the back end.

 

It's no secret bars and restaurants mark their items up and make profits off them.

 

Celebrity desperately wants people to take the beverages rather than the Grats or OBC which causes them true at cost out of pocket cash.

 

So I expect the beverage package they sell for $49 per day costs them more like $4 to $5 per day in reality, perhaps a bit more.

Edited January 4, 2015 by cle-guy

[fleckle]

I dispute, that the prices of these cruises are only up, in small part due to the cost of the beverage packages. They are up, because there is high demand, and the cabins sell quickly......

No dispute at all here. :)

I never claimed that the prices are only up due to the cost of the beverage packages, but rather that the beverage packages are an enticement for some passengers to book cruises at higher prices than they would otherwise be willing to pay.

 

Prices have always fluctuated with supply and demand; nothing new or different about that.

 

[need2bespoiled]

No dispute at all here. :)

I never claimed that the prices are only up due to the cost of the beverage packages, but rather that the beverage packages are an enticement for some passengers to book cruises at higher prices than they would otherwise be willing to pay.

 

Prices have always fluctuated with supply and demand; nothing new or different about that.

 

 

Then the proper response would be to congratulate Celebrity and buy stock :D

 

Oh, and don't forget not just a few years ago, the cruise industry was hurting from the combination of the economy, and a few unfavorable media events. Those days of low prices are over, and unless some event takes place, either economic or tragic, are likely here to stay, and likely increase, at least for a while as demand (with Asia and Australia driving this in part) continue to increase.

 

Sorry for veering off topic.

 

Happy sailing,

Jenna

[fleckle]

This is easy, it's because the actual cost to fulfill a beverage package is far less than the price people are charged.......

Precisely the point I was trying to make.

(I thought that was obvious, but apparently not. :D )

 

[LabGuy64]

There probably is a charge but, you know how it is....no one likes to be charged for something that they got for free in the past....human nature

 

 

Is Zumba free while on land? I always thought there was some sort of charge/royalty fee paid out to them by businesses that offer the service.

Edited January 5, 2015 by LabGuy64

[LabGuy64]

Curt....look closer.....

 

I would hardly call it flat....by your chart there has been an approximate rise of 35% in the suite rate during the period you cover....44% for Balcony, 54% for Ocean view and 45% for Interior cabins.....No not "flat" at all

 

 

This chart is an overall average of all celebrity cruise ships and their cabin fares over time. It's relatively flat,, had a marked increase 2012-2013, and a fall 2013-2014.

 

Sure some cruises are higher than others, its all so viable as to days out from cruise, what perks are included a that time, are we comparing exact itinerary and number of days to exact week last year etc. Lots of variables can let one say my cruise is so expensive versus last year, and alternately one can find bargains out there versus prior years. So looking at a fully averaged out graph of fares, they are trending up, but are about the same as 2 years past still, but for suites, obviously due to Suite perks rolling out next year.

 

As to Airlines, many operated at losses for so long, now they have some relief to make up for those long term losses is all, and why they aren't lowering airfares due to lower fuel. Also, they buy fuel far (sometimes years) in advance, so many may not yet be realizing the unplanned lower costs to the degree many may expect. Though I just booked a United flight direct from Cleveland to san juan on Jan 1 for Jan 24 departure, for just over $300. That seems like a bargain to me. CLE to Newark can often be $900 or the 45 minute flight time. Again, supply and demand at work, many variables.

 

[The_Big_M]

However using opening cruise fare prices as a method of determining, to me is like walking into a car dealer and saying I'll take that one over there, and paying full sticker price, knowing there's always room to negotiate or wait it out to get a more realistic value.

 

That isn't comparable at all. Except in very limited situations, the RRP such as on a car is the highest price that anyone will pay (ignoring extras, which is the same as onboard spending to extend that analogy). Prices don't normally go above RRP.

 

OTOH, the cruise pricing is a realistic starting point of where they are setting prices. Even as shown by your graph, there has been a significant uptrend. While it's definitely true that you can get cheaper, individually, as can be easily seen, prices also significantly go up from that base, or starting point... 50% higher is not unheard of. So the base point shows a trend of where cruise lines are setting the prices, which is what is being discerned.

 

And if you look over the time frame, you will also see an uptrend in their starting prices to reflect their expected pricing from the market.

[cle-guy]

Curt....look closer.....

 

I would hardly call it flat....by your chart there has been an approximate rise of 35% in the suite rate during the period you cover....44% for Balcony, 54% for Ocean view and 45% for Interior cabins.....No not "flat" at all

 

These fares are inclusive of the perks associated with them, for verandas and above anyway. It's also clear there was a drop in 2013. But there is no where near the doubling cabin prices some are going on about in various threads here.

 

I had noted that suites were an exception, on that new pricing includes suite perks.

 

So to recent timing, yes there's a rise, equivalent to being back to the same fares as 2 years ago (however notice the very end off the chart is again trending back down) however up until the all-in 123 was announced, it was down from the year prior. To compare apples and apples the perks value needs removed from the chart as it stands, as it amalgamates pricing from the website, which includes the perks, as we all know, fares increase with good perks, and drop when no perks and adjust up slightly for some perks.

 

I believe the perks being added in in 2013 filled higher cabin categories (asOV and Insides were exempted) sooner, and thus allowed lower categories where perks did not apply, to command higher fares as the supply of cabins was depleted sooner. Supply and demand....

 

The new 123 all in is causing Concierge and above to fill sooner, which will lily command higher veranda and below pricing to some extent.