Anyone else suffering from cancellation of Sapphire Princess Cruise in October?

[RDC1]

You have already given away your rights to sue. Read the cruise contract, particularly section 15 where you agreed to settle claims like this through arbitration. All issues (other than injury) to be arbitrated in Los Angeles, CA. You can contact a lawyer but you're wasting your money.

 

 

 

Maybe maybe not. It really depends upon how German courts and how they interprete German contract law. After all the agreement is not with Princess, but instead with a German tour operator. There are differences and I cannot find if an individual contract can override German Civil code. German civil code allows cancellation by the tour operator that is generally interpreted to be related to external forces. Though may German tour companies do include language giving the operator the right to cancel.

 

Inter-Connect, Consulting und Representations Services GmbH, represented by its Managing Director Bernhard Peter Franz, based in 80636 Munich, Arnulfstr.31, registered with the local court of Munich under HRB 90362 (German Trade Register) and referred to as ICO in the following. ICO acts as tour operator in terms of §651a BGB (the civil code of Germany) and may also act as agent in individual cases which requires a clear and unambiguous regulation.

 

 

The terms and conditions I found from Princess.de do not include arbitration terms and have the resolution to take place in Munich. It may also depend if the TA booked directly with Princess in the US or if they went through the German agent.

 

15. Final Provisions

15.1 Initially, the individually negotiated contract conditions will apply. These conditions will be complemented by the General Terms and Conditions. If neither the contract nor the general terms and conditions provide regulation for a particular case, the statutory regulations, notably the travel laws, will apply, taking into account BGB-InfoV § 4 ff.

 

15.2 The contractual relationship between ICO and the traveler and the resulting rights and obligations are governed by German law. If claims against ICO are made abroad and non-German law applies regarding the liability of ICO, the legal consequences, particularly with regard to the nature, extent and amount of the claims made by the traveler, will be dealt with under German law nonetheless.

 

15.3 The place of jurisdiction for all legal disputes – insofar as permitted by the laws – shall be Munich.

 

15.4 If any regulation contained in the General Terms and Conditions should be invalid, the other regulations shall remain in effect. In this case, an ineffective regulation shall be replaced by a new one permitted by law that best corresponds to the intended regulation in consideration of the economic purpose.

 

15.5 The General Terms and Conditions as amended from time to time become part of the travel contract.

Edited February 23, 2015 by RDC1

[RocketMan275]

Maybe maybe not. It really depends upon how German courts and how they interprete German contract law. After all the agreement is not with Princess, but instead with a German tour operator. There are differences and I cannot find if an individual contract can override German Civil code. German civil code allows cancellation by the tour operator that is generally interpreted to be related to external forces. Though may German tour companies do include language giving the operator the right to cancel.

 

 

Unlike my wife who is fluent, I cannot read German, so I was using a US based source. It's possible you may have a case.

 

I really do wish you well with this.

 

I too was bitten by the charter bug and I think was more egregious than yours. I had booked a cruise on Holland (a part of Carnival as is Princess). Several weeks later I found that an organization was selling cabins on the same cruise as a 100% Jazz charter. IOW, HAL was selling the same cruise at the same time the other organization was selling the same cruise. I cancelled and booked a Princess cruise. I should have kept the cruise until I saw what HAL would offer but, well, live and learn.

 

A month later, HAL was still selling the cruise and so was the charter group. Ultimately, HAL announced a charter and removed the cruise from it's website. I really do believe that this was deceptive at best.

 

I found out that this is common practice. Cruise lines allow a 'contingent' charter where the operator can offer the charter until he achieves enough reservations to book the charter. Meanwhile the cruise line continues to sell the cruise in case the operator does not follow through on the charter.

[jagsfan]

Wow! Talk about caveat emptor!

[CantanaLobo]

... there also seem to be a lot of people who obviously don't care if the cruise companies honour their contracts or not...

 

It's not that we don't care, it's that the deck is stacked against us. We'd need to find a lawyer willing to argue the matter in court, and that would take money. The odds of winning given the contract language seems low. Note that these contracts require any proceedings to take place in Miami or LA, or some other place we probably don't live (at least the USA contracts do). It's not worth it to try and get some money out of the cruise line for our costs when they cancel a cruise.

 

To paraphrase RocketMan275: "We are screwed". We have to be thankful when the cruise line gives us something as a customer service gesture. Other than that, all we can really do is have insurance and/or make sure we book refundable.

 

I know the EU has protections for air travel (i.e. EU 261) that overrides limitations the airlines may put in their contracts of carriage. I hope there's something that covers you on your side of the pond for the cruise that you can use. But you'll need to talk to a lawyer and decide if its worthwhile. Good luck. I mean that. I wish the cruise lines would suffer our financial pain when they cancel a cruise. Maybe they'd do it less often. Although knowing the cruise lines, they'd simply make the charter groups indemnify the cruise lines for the cancellation costs.

[WYB!]

I think it's more important to focus on getting a refund from the Travel Agent or agency and not Princess. While Princess cancelled the cruise it's the travel agent that got the payment. You should also try to follow up with your credit card company if you paid by credit card if following up with your travel agency should not go well.

 

PS, Yes OP it is who you think it is...

 

- CWipes

[Chedgie]

We were also on one of the cruises cancelled by Princess because Saphire Princess has been chartered. Princess offered to recompense any expenses incurred by us which were not refundable. These included airfares, hotel expenses and even car rental. We received this information by Email. We booked our cruise whilst on board so Princess here in Australia is the "agent" in this case. We hadn't booked our flights and our hotel booking is refundable. We have rebooked on a later cruise. All in all very happy with Princess, although disappointed having to cruise 2 weeks later. Really no big deal. We even got the same cabin we had previously booked. We got the on board credits as mentioned in previous posts. Just an extra note we were told the refunds would take a few weeks after we had provided all the required documentation confirming our non refundable expenses

[GandM-nq]

aprilsfool11 obviously booked through Princess Germany.

http://www.princesscruises.de/

Contract here - http://www.princesscruises.de/de/agb

 

The passage contract for bookings made through Princess Germany is obviously different to that of the passage contract applicable if the booking was made in the USA. In particular, the Princess Germany contract provides jurisdiction of the passage contract within Germany. And further acknowledges that the contract is governed under provisions of the German Civil Code.

 

aprilsfool11, first thing I should point out is clause 8.4 and 12.4 of the passage contract. Next time, soon as you pay out monies for an international holiday, get insurance.

 

Having said that, does section 10 of the contract [ Gewährleistung (Abhilfe, Minderung und Kündigung) und Verjährung ] have anything in it that might provide an avenue to claim some form of recompense? (I don't know german and google translate is somewhat goofy with the English translation.)

 

And also check the Civil Code, Subtitle 2 - Travel Contract - 651 c to 651 f inclusive. I assume these subsections of 651 apply to this contract (especially since the contract itself has listed them.)

[lcpagejr]

Isn't everyone over analyzing this??? It appears OP can get all their money back thru Princess as long as hotel and airfare are non-refundable. The link provided in a earlier post seemed to show what information OP needed to provide. IF OP is struggling with getting supporting information from Airline and Hotel booking agency...not Princess fault...Just send them the information!

 

On a related note.... who would charter a cruise for 17 days?? Unless its a Global/Regional company and they will be moving people on/off cruise at specific ports???

[caribill]

 

On a related note.... who would charter a cruise for 17 days?? Unless its a Global/Regional company and they will be moving people on/off cruise at specific ports???

 

It could be multiple cruises over that 17 days likely set up by a single travel agency.

[lcpagejr]

Didn't take that into consideration...I guess they could change the itinerary... Under this scenario I could see why Princess would jump at charter....more cruises + more passengers = more $$$$ Thanks

Edited March 22, 2015 by lcpagejr

[paddingtonbear]

It is the contract that princess can cancel the cruise or ports at anytime. Covering the cost of flights etc is the responsibility of individuals and is easily done with comprehensive travel insurance.

 

 

 

 

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[RDC1]

Isn't everyone over analyzing this??? It appears OP can get all their money back thru Princess as long as hotel and airfare are non-refundable. The link provided in a earlier post seemed to show what information OP needed to provide. IF OP is struggling with getting supporting information from Airline and Hotel booking agency...not Princess fault...Just send them the information!

 

On a related note.... who would charter a cruise for 17 days?? Unless its a Global/Regional company and they will be moving people on/off cruise at specific ports???

 

When it comes to air fare, even if Princess was willing to cover non-refundable portions, that does not mean that they would immediately pay you what you paid. That is because even non-refundable tickets have value. They can often be used for alternative dates and/or locations. That means that cruise lines will generally only refund the amount of the change fee, or other costs in them being repurposed, not the full value of the ticket. If the airline allows you to use some of the value for another flight do not count on the cruise line refunding that portion.

[caribill]

When it comes to air fare, even if Princess was willing to cover non-refundable portions, that does not mean that they would immediately pay you what you paid. That is because even non-refundable tickets have value. They can often be used for alternative dates and/or locations. That means that cruise lines will generally only refund the amount of the change fee, or other costs in them being repurposed, not the full value of the ticket. If the airline allows you to use some of the value for another flight do not count on the cruise line refunding that portion.

 

That really does not help in many cases.

 

First of all, the remaining value must be used within a year of original purchase. In practice, that could mean only a couple of months left before the year expires. (Although that would not be the case with this cruise which is still six months away.)

 

Second of all, the airline with the tickets may not be flying where you need to for your replacement vacation. If you were flying United Air Lines to Asia and that cruise was cancelled, there is a good chance United may be flying to your next vacation location, be it Alaska, South America, Hawaii, Europe, etc. But if your tickets to Asia had been on Japan Air Lines, it is unlikely they could be used if your next opportunity to travel is Alaska, South America, Hawaii, Europe, etc.

 

So, will Princess cover that remaining value if it goes unused and then expires?

[Oriental_cruiser]

6 of us were booked on the cancelled grand Asia cruise for this October and we were only offered $100 each compensation. We feel we should have been offered more compensation or an upgrade at the least. Anyone else got a better deal? Princess PR is terrible, and they just don't care about their loyal customers.

[greenie082756]

OP, sorry your plans were cancelled. That can be so frustrating!

 

From what I understand, I believe you used a Travel Agent. So, your agreement is with them and their contract with Princess is their issue.

So, I think you need to find what your TA is going to do to as a representative (seller) of Princess cruises to reimburse you.

 

This is one reason I do not use a TA. I do not want an "agent" acting in between myself and the other company.:)