Why I may just have to permanently switch from Royal to X

[nednrom]

I for one, think that the increase is justified -- the habit of undertipping is universal on land and on cruise ships. I've seen people spend $200 on meal and leave $5 as tip simply because they equate servers as having to do their jobs without taking into consideration that their wages are minimal and dependent on tips. They work long hours and and put up with a lot from passengers who are negative and can not be pleased. If you are able to take a cruise (and most of us here are able to take more than one a year), you should be considerate enough to give the servers their due on the ship. I tip 20% on land, more if there service is extraordinary. Why is it any different on a ship? Is the 18% tip going to break me? NO! I'm betting it won't break anyone cruising either!

 

Actually the underlying issue in all of this is the shameful minimum wage paid which forces the servers to rely mostly on tips.

[donaldsc]

Ok.... I just have to vent a little.... There is a thread on the Royal forum cursing the increase of tips for servers from 15% to 18%. I get people don't like increases. No one does. But I pointed out how hard the servers work, hours and hours a day, 7 days a week, with a smile. And how they are often from poorer countries and a few cents a drink may not mean much to me, but might mean a lot to them....

 

I don't mind if people disagree... Reasonable minds can. But the posts on that thread! Folks saying "these people" (referring to the servers) are not our problem and that "these people" should be happy to have jobs given where they are from. I don't know why this is bothering me so..... I am fine with complaints of other passengers, or cabins, or costs or less amenities. But this is really getting to me.... I just think the crew works so hard and would love to be able to be as fortunate as we, who can vacation. it makes me sad and frustrated and I guess it could happen on any cruise line forum but, it is on the Royal thread....ok, I am done now.

 

I disagree with you with regard to the mandatory tipping at the bars. First of all, let me make it clear that while I do not like the $12.50 per day cabin steward fee and would prefer that the cost for the cruise be increased, I would never ever reduce or remove that fee. In fact, I usually tiup above the $12.50.

 

However, my feelings with regard to the mandatory bar tip are completely different. Most of the drinks that I get on a ship are a beer, soda, or a simple well drink. A 15% tip to someone who basically only has to do no more than pour something into my glass or hand me a can is absurd. If I order a complicated drink, maybe 15% is OK. But not for just pouring me a drink.

 

DON

[wallie5446]

 

Actually the underlying issue in all of this is the shameful minimum wage paid which forces the servers to rely mostly on tips.

 

Good waiters an waitress will not work for $15-20 or even $25 an hour. Do the math.

My wife an DD are both waitress, the DD at a high end steak house, the wife at Hyatt. The DD works 28-32 hrs a week and makes $800-1000 on a bad week, that's over $25 hr. You nor I would ever eat there if the menu prices reflected what it took to pay those wages. Same on a cruise ship.

 

Our waiter on the Equinox last Nov just completed his 28 th year with Celebrity. There is a reason many Stewards and wait staff have been there a very long time, MONEY. The same reason we all stay at our jobs for years n years.

[emcee207]

I for one, think that the increase is justified -- the habit of undertipping is universal on land and on cruise ships. I've seen people spend $200 on meal and leave $5 as tip simply because they equate servers as having to do their jobs without taking into consideration that their wages are minimal and dependent on tips. They work long hours and and put up with a lot from passengers who are negative and can not be pleased. If you are able to take a cruise (and most of us here are able to take more than one a year), you should be considerate enough to give the servers their due on the ship. I tip 20% on land, more if there service is extraordinary. Why is it any different on a ship? Is the 18% tip going to break me? NO! I'm betting it won't break anyone cruising either!

 

Actually the underlying issue in all of this is the shameful minimum wage paid which forces the servers to rely mostly on tips.

 

My wife worked for 25 years in fine dining restaurants in Boston; she has seen everything. The major problem here, as it was in Boston due to the number of visitors from overseas due to the hospitals, research facilities and financial companies, is the cultural differences from those not from the US who don't realize the servers make less than the minimal wage and rely on tips. In Cambridge MA many Doctors, and high paid executives from the UK would not leave a dime!!! LIke it or not, this is our culture and Celebrity is a US orientated/owned company and this is their policy.

Open your wallets you cheapies, if it was your daughter or son they'd be tipped well, wouldn't they? Or you would whine.

[Adidas4fun]

You nor I would ever eat there if the menu prices reflected what it took to pay those wages.

So people will happily pay those "high" prices as a tip but not up front? Sounds like a false economy to me.

[wallie5446]

So people will happily pay those "high" prices as a tip but not up front? Sounds like a false economy to me.

 

Then why slum down to the level of a line like Celebrity? I don't get it?

Edited February 26, 2015 by wallie5446

[LabGuy64]

So...you are saying that because some people undertip...(and onboard I think it is a SMALL minority) that the people that Do tip normally have to pay more to make up for it?....and no obviously it will not break me to pay the 3% more...but as I stated it is not just one person....it is many people expecting 18%....and

I remember when it was accepted to give 10% ....where does it end? by the time the rate creeps up to unmanagable levels it is too late....and actualy it already is in the US. Tipping is ingrained it the cultural mentality.....much faulty logic going on here. IT IS NOT MY PLACE TO PAY THE WAGES OF SERVERS. Talk to the employers about the wages they pay. Many people make less than they probably deserve however, that does not mean I should have to pay them. I work HARD for my money and want it to benefit me and my family.

Just because I have some disposable income does not mean others should start redistributing it without my consent....I will choose the charities I support on my own. Please keep your hand out of my pockets

 

I for one, think that the increase is justified -- the habit of undertipping is universal on land and on cruise ships. I've seen people spend $200 on meal and leave $5 as tip simply because they equate servers as having to do their jobs without taking into consideration that their wages are minimal and dependent on tips. They work long hours and and put up with a lot from passengers who are negative and can not be pleased. If you are able to take a cruise (and most of us here are able to take more than one a year), you should be considerate enough to give the servers their due on the ship. I tip 20% on land, more if there service is extraordinary. Why is it any different on a ship? Is the 18% tip going to break me? NO! I'm betting it won't break anyone cruising either!

 

Actually the underlying issue in all of this is the shameful minimum wage paid which forces the servers to rely mostly on tips.

Edited February 26, 2015 by LabGuy64

[LabGuy64]

If honest your wife will admit that she could pull down pretty good money in a "fine dining" restaurant....15% of a 200.00 check is pretty good considering that she would be also working other tables at the same time...and REALLY good if she worked a big table. and after tipping out the bartender and busboys she would still do well...especially as most of the earnings are not declared and taxed....and remember....no offense to your wife but this is at best semi-skilled labor...

 

 

My wife worked for 25 years in fine dining restaurants in Boston; she has seen everything. The major problem here, as it was in Boston due to the number of visitors from overseas due to the hospitals, research facilities and financial companies, is the cultural differences from those not from the US who don't realize the servers make less than the minimal wage and rely on tips. In Cambridge MA many Doctors, and high paid executives from the UK would not leave a dime!!! LIke it or not, this is our culture and Celebrity is a US orientated/owned company and this is their policy.

Open your wallets you cheapies, if it was your daughter or son they'd be tipped well, wouldn't they? Or you would whine.

[LabGuy64]

you are saying we should up the auto gratuites AND pay an additional 15%?.....if so what exactly are the autoGRATUITIES payment for?

 

 

Not only that but buying a $10 bottle of duty free booze to save a dollar or trying to sneak one on board. Or the person that clips 25 cent coupons all year and then throws away dollars playing the slots. :confused: But then again it is by being frugal or cheap in some areas is what gives them the money to spend or throw away on something else. ;)

 

In reality it is more than 3% because the prices of drinks have also increased. Maybe people would be happier if they increased the auto gratuities $5/day pp and kept the 15% on everything else. :D

 

happy cruising

[DirtyDawg]

Good waiters an waitress will not work for $15-20 or even $25 an hour. Do the math.

My wife an DD are both waitress, the DD at a high end steak house, the wife at Hyatt. The DD works 28-32 hrs a week and makes $800-1000 on a bad week, that's over $25 hr. You nor I would ever eat there if the menu prices reflected what it took to pay those wages. Same on a cruise ship.

 

Our waiter on the Equinox last Nov just completed his 28 th year with Celebrity. There is a reason many Stewards and wait staff have been there a very long time, MONEY. The same reason we all stay at our jobs for years n years.

 

I'll have to stop tipping so well at my favorite steakhouse.:eek: $25 and hour is not too shabby for a non-professional job, in fact it equates to the median income in the U.S. I.E. half the people make more and half of Americans make less!

 

One of my DS's makes $15 an hour life-guarding and saving lives. Screw that, I'm sending him out to waiter or bartender! My other DS just graduated with an Engineering degree and his starting salary equates to about $25 per hour. Do you know what I spent to get him that degree!!! (OK he did some work too:o).

 

If the folks on cruise ships are making that type of scratch, I'd be removing my auto tips in a nano second. ;)

[LabGuy64]

Plus thee is a lot more to working a cruise ship...first I assume that food is free...and their rooms....(I know they are small by western standards)...but free..yes? Anyone know if they get free medical care onboard?...I bet they do...and many are young...and want to see a bit of the world....

But last, if they are saving money or sending it home, compared to the local wage standard they might be doing VERY well. Things are relative....And I know they work hard but they are not doing brain surgery and with all things considered I feel they do ok. if they didn't they would not take the jobs

 

I'll have to stop tipping so well at my favorite steakhouse.:eek: $25 and hour is not too shabby for a non-professional job, in fact it equates to the median income in the U.S. I.E. half the people make more and half of Americans make less!

 

One of my DS's makes $15 an hour life-guarding and saving lives. Screw that, I'm sending him out to waiter or bartender! My other DS just graduated with an Engineering degree and his starting salary equates to about $25 per hour. Do you know what I spent to get him that degree!!! (OK he did some work too:o).

 

If the folks on cruise ships are making that type of scratch, I'd be removing my auto tips in a nano second. ;)

[lawgirl]

I think this problem should be solved as follows: those who think that servers (aka these people) have it so good, that their wages are high for their countries and they have great room and board should trade places with the crew. In that case, you have all convinced me that you (the new servers) are lucky to even have a job and I agree that tips should be optional and I therefore won't tip any of you. After all, you too have convinced me that all you are doing is pouring a drink which, according to you, any fool can do that. Since you, the new servers, have no skills (again your words) you will deserve no tip.

 

Have fun in your new job,..... As I said, some people just prove my point .... and truthfully, no one would actually trade places with the crew. You seriously think the crew is doing VERY well??? Save your few cents if it means that much to you.

 

As they say, there but for the grace of God go I.... Rather than spending my time justifying why it is so very important to save a few cents and complain about a tiny increase (the first that I know of in years and years) I will happily pay the extra tip. And stop reading this board....which I foolishly started.

[Stateroom_Sailor]

I think this problem should be solved as follows: those who think that servers (aka these people) have it so good, that their wages are high for their countries and they have great room and board should trade places with the crew. In that case, you have all convinced me that you (the new servers) are lucky to even have a job and I agree that tips should be optional and I therefore won't tip any of you. After all, you too have convinced me that all you are doing is pouring a drink which, according to you, any fool can do that. Since you, the new servers, have no skills (again your words) you will deserve no tip.

 

Have fun in your new job,..... As I said, some people just prove my point .... and truthfully, no one would actually trade places with the crew. You seriously think the crew is doing VERY well??? Save your few cents if it means that much to you.

 

As they say, there but for the grace of God go I.... Rather than spending my time justifying why it is so very important to save a few cents and complain about a tiny increase (the first that I know of in years and years) I will happily pay the extra tip. And stop reading this board....which I foolishly started.

 

You know what? You're just as whiny as the original thread on RCL, you two are more similar than you think. I'm voting on a Freedom Class boxing ring to sort out your passions! :)

 

Had you raised your tips to 18% before the change yourself? Why isn't 17% not the magic number, or 19%? Coming from poorer countries means that your money is worth more at home, not less. I've got a niece and nephew working bar and they seem to be of the opinion that it's quite lucrative.

 

People have every right to boycott such a change, grumble and accept it, or embellish it. Supply and Demand will sort all this out, not emotion. ;)

Edited February 26, 2015 by Stateroom_Sailor

[LabGuy64]

Hey,

 

no offense but, if I wanted a job like that I would be going it...(and I might have when I was a kid seeing the world and getting paid a bit to do it) But, it's not "there but for the grace of god go I" It's years of College and years of hard work that let me take these vacations so don't belittle those of us that work hard for what we have by saying it was a "gift form god"

I appreciate the work that the staff does and think that they deserve a good wage for what they do. It actually appears that you seem to respect them less, by needing to defend them and acting as if mothering them protecting them...you SEEM to think they are not responsable adults, making their decisions as to job preference and benefits and liabilities of the decisions. They are people, not children that need to be coddled, pampered or protected.

They make their own way in this world...as do we all. I respect totally,each and every person that take a job and does it to the best of their abilities.....and might want to tip those whose abilities provide exceptional service.

 

 

I think this problem should be solved as follows: those who think that servers (aka these people) have it so good, that their wages are high for their countries and they have great room and board should trade places with the crew. In that case, you have all convinced me that you (the new servers) are lucky to even have a job and I agree that tips should be optional and I therefore won't tip any of you. After all, you too have convinced me that all you are doing is pouring a drink which, according to you, any fool can do that. Since you, the new servers, have no skills (again your words) you will deserve no tip.

 

Have fun in your new job,..... As I said, some people just prove my point .... and truthfully, no one would actually trade places with the crew. You seriously think the crew is doing VERY well??? Save your few cents if it means that much to you.

 

As they say, there but for the grace of God go I.... Rather than spending my time justifying why it is so very important to save a few cents and complain about a tiny increase (the first that I know of in years and years) I will happily pay the extra tip. And stop reading this board....which I foolishly started.

Edited February 26, 2015 by LabGuy64

[hulamoon]

I can only think of this as a service charge rather than a tip. Although I am curious how it works out, if higher charges change the cash tips and income.

A percentage of charge goes up as prices increase, and they have gone up. So the increase happens with every price increase and now it is happening with a service charge increase. I am unaware of even how it is distributed. Is there some special math that gives it to only bartenders and servers that serve us? How does it work for a purchased package that is rarely used? A gifted one? One that is used well?

 

In a short period of time, I am down the rabbit hole of thinking of something I have no control over, and is possibly none of my business. So I simply see it as a service charge.

 

Although it was a few decades ago, I made twice what I made waitressing through college than I did with my degree in the "free world" for many years after. I am glad I have a degree, but being a good waiter or bartender is an awesome income skill.

 

I have no special insider knowledge of what becomes of staff when they leave the ship, but I sure love hearing their stories of businesses they plan to begin when they do.

[wallie5446]

I have no special insider knowledge of what becomes of staff when they leave the ship, but I sure love hearing their stories of businesses they plan to begin when they do.

 

Next time you make it to Gr Cayman go to the Lighthouse Restaurant. It is owned and operated by a bunch of former Cruise ship Dining Room Captains and Servers.

[Kleasie]

Ok.... I just have to vent a little.... There is a thread on the Royal forum cursing the increase of tips for servers from 15% to 18%. I get people don't like increases. No one does. But I pointed out how hard the servers work, hours and hours a day, 7 days a week, with a smile. And how they are often from poorer countries and a few cents a drink may not mean much to me, but might mean a lot to them....

 

I don't mind if people disagree... Reasonable minds can. But the posts on that thread! Folks saying "these people" (referring to the servers) are not our problem and that "these people" should be happy to have jobs given where they are from. I don't know why this is bothering me so..... I am fine with complaints of other passengers, or cabins, or costs or less amenities. But this is really getting to me.... I just think the crew works so hard and would love to be able to be as fortunate as we, who can vacation. it makes me sad and frustrated and I guess it could happen on any cruise line forum but, it is on the Royal thread....ok, I am done now.

 

Firstly, you sound like a lovely person but what did you really want to achieve by posting this? Letting everyone know that you are a nice person and that other people on the royal forum are royal as#$holes?

 

If you are going to change cruise lines because you don't like what your fellow passengers are saying in a forum, just do it. But realise that celebrity passengers have their own thread about the tipping and you would probably be just as horrified, if not rocking in the foetal position at what is being said there. Maybe celebrity isn't the cruise line for you either? Good luck in any event with your decision.

[Stateroom_Sailor]

Firstly, you sound like a lovely person but what did you really want to achieve by posting this? Letting everyone know that you are a nice person and that other people on the royal forum are royal as#$holes?

 

If you are going to change cruise lines because you don't like what your fellow passengers are saying in a forum, just do it. But realise that celebrity passengers have their own thread about the tipping and you would probably be just as horrified, if not rocking in the foetal position at what is being said there. Maybe celebrity isn't the cruise line for you either? Good luck in any event with your decision.

 

Well let's see, one righteous amongst Royal as#$holes, check. Celebrity is now out. Now might be a good time to snitch to Princess or Holland America. :D

[LabGuy64]

actually she might do better on Carnival...lol

 

Well let's see, one righteous amongst Royal as#$holes, check. Celebrity is now out. Now might be a good time to snitch to Princess or Holland America. :D

[avalon007]

I am Australian & in our culture it is not normal to tip at restaurants, bars etc etc in the same way as in the US.

 

Our wages are a lot higher here (example -juniors stacking shelves in supermarkets getting a minimum of about $16AUD per hour) that's why Sydney is so expensive for tourists, but we get great service wether we tip or not. We do however leave a little extra by rounding up the bill for example if the service was extra good, but it's not a set percentage or anything like that. If you don't tip, the staff still say a friendly goodbye to you, no tantrums or cold shoulders.

 

So consider all you US cruisers that we Aussies have to remember to tip in the first place when overseas to start, then we need to work out how much to tip! I always feel very embarrassed & awkward if we forget to tip overseas. The whole tipping thing can be quite stressful!! :D

 

But on cruises we always tip our cabin steward at the end of the cruise because that is what is expected on American cruise lines. We don't drink much so the bar tips are less of an issue for us.

 

Another difficulty is we don't have any paper notes under $5, we have coins for $1 & $2 which staff don't like, so it makes it hard on Australian based cruises to have a ready supply of notes to suit - you can't tip $5 for a drink & ask for change!! :eek:

 

Personally I would just prefer a higher cruise fare so the whole tipping thing is a non issue. The whole 18% thing though is no big deal to me, everything in life goes up & cruise gratuities are no different.:)

[LabGuy64]

I see your point on most things....the last statement was TOTALLY wrong though.....as the cost of things goes up the amount you give as a tip can go up...cost of living increase influencing the amount as if effects prices ..not the percentage you give....

 

 

I am Australian & in our culture it is not normal to tip at restaurants, bars etc etc in the same way as in the US.

 

Our wages are a lot higher here (example -juniors stacking shelves in supermarkets getting a minimum of about $16AUD per hour) that's why Sydney is so expensive for tourists, but we get great service wether we tip or not. We do however leave a little extra by rounding up the bill for example if the service was extra good, but it's not a set percentage or anything like that. If you don't tip, the staff still say a friendly goodbye to you, no tantrums or cold shoulders.

 

So consider all you US cruisers that we Aussies have to remember to tip in the first place when overseas to start, then we need to work out how much to tip! I always feel very embarrassed & awkward if we forget to tip overseas. The whole tipping thing can be quite stressful!! :D

 

But on cruises we always tip our cabin steward at the end of the cruise because that is what is expected on American cruise lines. We don't drink much so the bar tips are less of an issue for us.

 

Another difficulty is we don't have any paper notes under $5, we have coins for $1 & $2 which staff don't like, so it makes it hard on Australian based cruises to have a ready supply of notes to suit - you can't tip $5 for a drink & ask for change!! :eek:

 

Personally I would just prefer a higher cruise fare so the whole tipping thing is a non issue. The whole 18% thing though is no big deal to me, everything in life goes up & cruise gratuities are no different.:)

[avalon007]

I see your point on most things....the last statement was TOTALLY wrong though.....as the cost of things goes up the amount you give as a tip can go up...cost of living increase influencing the amount as if effects prices ..not the percentage you give....

 

 

Fair enough. I did say I was from a non tipping culture, so I'm no expert on how tip percentages change or not. :)

 

Although we do see taxes & surcharges change in the percentage they are charged at over here so I assumed tips were much the same.