Will you reduce DSC

[NLH Arizona]

I can't wait for NCL and the other lines to make these charges mandatory, and non removable so that these hilarious threads will disappear once and for all.

Amen to that.

[pokerpro5]

A) Your cruise fare consists of the amount agreed, + port charges, + taxes, + service charges. This aligns exactly with the idea of buying a product. You don't consider that the sales rep at the car dealership is providing a service? I'm pretty sure they think so.

 

I'm not talking about the fare. I have never once advocated getting any form of refund on my cruise fare because of recent policy changes by NCL.

 

 

B) If you would stop conflating 'tips' with the service charge, your mind would rest far easier. NCL is a No Tips Required cruiseline as it pertains to any services provided to all passengers. The cruise fare + the service charge satisfies all of the compensation requirements of crew-members who are not specifically:

 

- Bar Staff

- Kid's Club

- Spa

- Butler

- Concierge

- Specialty Dining Servers

 

We are told in the FAQ that tipping is not required. We are further told that there is an option available to adjust the Service Charge if the service is an issue which cannot be addressed.

 

We are told in the FAQ that the DSC is an "automatic gratuity". That's from NCL's own website. Since when is a gratuity not a tip?

 

 

 

D) Why do you have to have your Service Charge covering people whose service you do not use on a particular night? Because those people remain on standby for your convenience. Just like taxes pay for road clearing even though you might be on vacation and have no need of having your roads cleared. The service is available to be rendered at your convenience thanks to the Service Charge. The specialty servers who are not part of that Service Charge have an separate autogratuity as covered in point C.

 

Because the specialties are a REPLACEMENT for the MDR. The other items you listed above are "extras" -- services you can purchase on the cruise which are not replacing identical free services.

 

When I eat in the specialty restaurant, I am highly unlikely to eat at the MDR as well, unless I am a cow and have multiple stomachs.

 

That's why the specialties should remain part of the DSC.

 

The other items make sense. They are optional/niche EXTRA services which are not used by a large number of people onboard, and therefore are excluded from the communal tip pool, and rather are tipped directly by those utilizing them. That part makes sense.

 

But the specialties do not make sense. Eating is not optional The service given to me at the specialties REPLACES the service that I otherwise would have required at the MDR.

 

By eating at the specialties, I am forced to also tip the servers at the MDR, yet those eating at the MDR are NOT tipping the servers at the specialties, so the entire burden there is on me.

 

See the problem?

 

This is why the DSC covered specialties up until recently, and why I am asserting that this recent change breaks the entire concept.

Edited July 29, 2015 by pokerpro5

[Briitini]

Another terrible Stephen analogy.

 

When I buy a car, I am buying a product. I am not tipping anyone. Nobody is providing a service. When I purchase a vehicle, I pay them a price we agree upon for what I feel the vehicle is worth. Same way I pay the supermarket for a box of cereal. Again, I'm buying a product, and therefore require no visibility into how they spend the money I trade them for that product.

 

Tips/gratuities are an entirely different matter. They are optional. You give them in exchange for adequate/good service. If service is poor, or if you don't receive the service at all, you do not tip. For example, when I carry my own bags up to my hotel room, I don't tip the bellman. When I park my own car, I don't tip the valet.

 

NCL switched to a pooled tipping model to (supposedly) ensure that all of their background service people also get tipped, rather than just the ones you directly interact with (or traditionally tip directly). So they're trying to say that the guy keeping the hallway clean for me is just as deserving of my tips as the guy serving me food. Okay, I can go along with that.

 

But where I can't go along is where a large portion of my tips go to a large group of employees of a service I don't use. I'm referring to the MDR. There are a LOT of MDR employees, and yet I don't eat there at all. And the reason I don't eat there is because I'm utilizing another dining option they provide me -- the specialty restaurants, where I am forced to tip separately.

 

So basically, NCL is saying, "You can eat in the specialties for a fee, PLUS you need to separately tip the employees there, but you also have to tip everyone in the MDR where you DON'T eat."

 

That makes no sense.

 

When you go to a steakhouse at home, I doubt you also stop by Denny's on the way home just to tip the waitress where you DIDN'T eat.

 

Under the previous system, specialty restaurants were part of the DSC pool, so I was fine with some of my tips going to MDR employees, knowing that in turn, MDR diners were also tipping my specialty restaurant servers, so it all evened out.

 

But here I am being forced to tip a large pool of people that aren't serving me, yet the ones serving me are not being tipped on the other end by MDR diners.

 

That's my main problem. NCL broke the whole DSC concept by doing this.

 

Furthermore, I don't like how some of my tips are being used for "team building" or other nonsense. My tips should entirely end up in the hands of NCL employees.

 

As I said before, I suspect that reducing the DSC doesn't even penalize any NCL crew. I am guessing NCL handles the DSC this way:

 

1) They set a constant wage for crew members, and pay them that wage (that is, it's not variable based upon the amount of DSC received).

 

2) If NCL recoups less than that amount through the DSC, they eat the difference. (This is probably why they have raised the DSC twice -- because they were failing to recoup it all!)

 

3) If NCL recoups MORE than that amount, they spend the excess on team building BS.

 

Under the above scenario, you are taking money away from NCL when you reduce the DSC, not the hardworking crew.

 

I cannot be sure this is how it works, but I would be surprised if the truth is too far from the above.

 

Perhaps when I give a cash tip to my steward at the end of the cruise, I will engage him in conversation and see if I can squeeze out of him some more details.

 

Yes yes yes yes!!! Not everyone will agree, though :rolleyes:

[tarheelmjfan]

I can't wait for NCL and the other lines to make these charges mandatory, and non removable so that these hilarious threads will disappear once and for all.

 

I'm with you. Although, I'd also be okay with them leaving things as they are & banning people who remove/reduce tips more than once. The first time it may be poor service related. The second time I'd consider it a habit & politely ask them to vacation elsewhere. ;) Either works for me.

[sjbdtz]

Because the specialties are a REPLACEMENT for the MDR. The other items you listed above are "extras" -- services you can purchase on the cruise which are not replacing identical free services.

 

 

 

That's why the specialties should remain part of the DSC.

 

The other items make sense. They are optional/niche EXTRA services which are not used by a large number of people onboard, and therefore are excluded from the communal tip pool, and rather are tipped directly by those utilizing them. That part makes sense.

 

 

To the part highlighted in red, above.... so are specialty restaurants.

 

 

To the remainder, if I'm using the spa, I'm not using the water slides. If I'm in the casino, I'm not requiring the services of the towel exchange.

 

 

The point is, these services are on reserve for me when & if I require them. It's possible I decide to spend the entire day reading a book on my balcony. The people on standby to serve my needs (whether invoked or not) still need to be paid.

 

 

Stephen

 

 

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[Jane Don]

First-off, NCL does not add a fee to compensate employees who went above & beyond. What NCL does, is remove the employee's compensation from the base fare and make it visible, so that people who live in cultures where tipping is not customary, are not made uncomfortable by having to do it on the ship. The message is simple: the service is not part of your base fare, it's this separate daily charge. And no tipping is required at all, UNLESS you feel you want to compensate somebody over & above....then....feel free.

 

 

 

 

 

LOL! That's the funniest thing I've read on CC, perhaps ever.

 

 

 

For-profit corporations are NOT required BY LAW to maximize profits.

http://www.nytimes.com/roomfordebate/2015/04/16/what-are-corporations-obligations-to-shareholders/corporations-dont-have-to-maximize-profits

 

 

Stephen

 

 

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If I owned shares I might be a preacher like you, but I don't. The people who serve me get tipped well and appreciate it. If you were my server would you rather have my $20 or a small slice of a mandatory service charge?

 

Perhaps you should, just for a second, think of it from the service provider's POV. The irony here is that you are arguing with the choir. I am the service provider. I am the person you claim to want to improve. Yet, instead you spew corporate propaganda without a thought to people like me. The people who have to look nice, smile, put up with nonsense, tolerate everything and still make you feel special every time we interact. That is why we tip. Not to supplement payroll, but to show appreciation for the people who every day, show up with a smile and do their best to ensure we have a great experience. They make our kids laugh, they make our mothers feel proud and commiserate with us when we have a bad day at the tables. We do not tip because they show up. We tip because they earn it. Because I earn it. Why should I bust my butt to earn your respect, to anticipate your every need, only to have to cut in every warm body on the ship, including my soup who twice told me to decrease your portions?

 

Your philosophy shoots good service in the foot. We are hobbled by this nonsense to the point that the great service providers have jumped ship for land where what we earn is what we get. Consider that before some industry lackey has my post removed.

[LMaxwell]

I'm with you. Although, I'd also be okay with them leaving things as they are & banning people who remove/reduce tips more than once. The first time it may be poor service related. The second time I'd consider it a habit & politely ask them to vacation elsewhere. ;) Either works for me.

What happens if lightning strikes twice and you get bad service again?

 

Furthermore if NCL aren't keeping any of the DSC what would they care what you do? They need the cruise fare to fill the tanks and pay the banks. Claiming NCL care and would ban someone is tacit admittance that NCL are dependent on that money....

Edited July 30, 2015 by LMaxwell

[LMaxwell]

If I owned shares I might be a preacher like you, but I don't. The people who serve me get tipped well and appreciate it. If you were my server would you rather have my $20 or a small slice of a mandatory service charge?

 

Perhaps you should, just for a second, think of it from the service provider's POV. The irony here is that you are arguing with the choir. I am the service provider. I am the person you claim to want to improve. Yet, instead you spew corporate propaganda without a thought to people like me. The people who have to look nice, smile, put up with nonsense, tolerate everything and still make you feel special every time we interact. That is why we tip. Not to supplement payroll, but to show appreciation for the people who every day, show up with a smile and do their best to ensure we have a great experience. They make our kids laugh, they make our mothers feel proud and commiserate with us when we have a bad day at the tables. We do not tip because they show up. We tip because they earn it. Because I earn it. Why should I bust my butt to earn your respect, to anticipate your every need, only to have to cut in every warm body on the ship, including my soup who twice told me to decrease your portions?

 

Your philosophy shoots good service in the foot. We are hobbled by this nonsense to the point that the great service providers have jumped ship for land where what we earn is what we get. Consider that before some industry lackey has my post removed.

Spot on. Giving people pennies on the dollar they have earned for good service doesn't tend to make people provide their best service or stay around. If you are ok with "good enough" that's a different story.

[abe3]

I don't know why we have to analyze every little detail about tipping and DSC. You are going on vacation that's what your focus should be on not who gets what and how each and everyone gets paid or when and how should I reduce the DSC during the cruise. Do what you want and pay what you want and be the adult and make your own decisions. Children argue about petty things and people that keep complaining about the DSC and tips are being like children. Grow up and take responsibility for yourself and do your research before you cruise or any other vacation you go on. If you think you are being blindsided then you are the one at fault, not NCL or any other cruise line. NCL is clear what you are expected to pay and they give you choices if you want to reduce it or not. It's not your choice what they do with the DSC, it's their choice what they want to do with it. I could care less what a steward makes, a waiter makes, how much of my DSC goes to other people on the ship. That's between NCL and their employees.

 

I know we will have thousands of more topics on tipping and DSC, but people just need to research on the NCL site to know exactly what they are getting into before they get on that ship.

[jb456]

MY analogy was terrible? :rolleyes:

 

A) Your cruise fare consists of the amount agreed, + port charges, + taxes, + service charges. This aligns exactly with the idea of buying a product. You don't consider that the sales rep at the car dealership is providing a service? I'm pretty sure they think so.

 

 

B) If you would stop conflating 'tips' with the service charge, your mind would rest far easier. NCL is a No Tips Required cruiseline as it pertains to any services provided to all passengers. The cruise fare + the service charge satisfies all of the compensation requirements of crew-members who are not specifically:

 

- Bar Staff

- Kid's Club

- Spa

- Butler

- Concierge

- Specialty Dining Servers

 

 

We are told in the FAQ that tipping is not required. We are further told that there is an option available to adjust the Service Charge if the service is an issue which cannot be addressed.

 

 

D) Why do you have to have your Service Charge covering people whose service you do not use on a particular night? Because those people remain on standby for your convenience. Just like taxes pay for road clearing even though you might be on vacation and have no need of having your roads cleared. The service is available to be rendered at your convenience thanks to the Service Charge. The specialty servers who are not part of that Service Charge have an separate autogratuity as covered in point C.

 

 

 

Stephen

 

.

 

20 posts you keep saying over and over its a service charge and not a gratuity.

 

Please explain why NCLs terms and conditions say "Prepaid gratuities referred as "service charge".

Edited July 30, 2015 by jb456

[Lovecruises2014]

 

BTW - Have never taken off any auto charge on any cruiseline at all, but plenty of people on here have stated what they give out in cash.

 

How much in cash? Because only person said how much they give out in cash when they remove it. How about the rest of the 20-something posters that swear by removing it and giving it back in cash? Now, I'm curious what they give out to the staff; how much is that?

[Jane Don]

How much in cash? Because only person said how much they give out in cash when they remove it. How about the rest of the 20-something posters that swear by removing it and giving it back in cash? Now, I'm curious what they give out to the staff; how much is that?

 

Just to be clear, I'm not a twenty-something. Not even thirty-something.

[Guest phd1003]

Very true - I have asked a few times now, posted links to NCLs website and either they ignore the question, brush it off, provide an excuse, or turn it into a condescending remark along with the famous line "don't like it, then don't cruise with NCL"

 

But not one of them can answer the question directly.

 

 

WHY DOES The Terms & Conditions say PREPAID GRATUITIES referred as a SERVICE CHARGE?

 

Please don't answer with they are one in the same. A gratuity and service charge are two completely different things.

 

Maybe they are dumbing it down for the layman...Some people need extra explanations on what something means

[LMaxwell]

How much in cash? Because only person said how much they give out in cash when they remove it. How about the rest of the 20-something posters that swear by removing it and giving it back in cash? Now, I'm curious what they give out to the staff; how much is that?

I guess it varies as to the services they receive?

 

All I can do is take people on their word here. If some say they take it off and tip in cash, then they take it off and tip in cash.

 

Someone will always give less than me, someone will always give more than me but there's really no way for me to tell. But for 5 decades, if not longer, it was the norm in the industry to tip with cash. Cash is still king and that's not going to change anytime soon no matter how badly the companies all want to get their fingers in the pie first before doling out some amount of it.

 

The invention of auto-charging is fairly new and the cruise line gives people the option to handle it how they want. No sense bashing people for it.

 

In fact, I think many of the people that do the bashing simply fail to make any reasonable case for many of their absurd statements and many of the disgusting comments read more like a child having a tantrum than anything resembling an adult thought. It's really sad that this forum has been hijacked by people who all sound like they are about to have an aneurysm burst while they are typing out some schoolyard epithet. You can't ask a question here or make a comment without just being harassed and beaten down. What happened to discussion and considering opposing points of view, or at least dealing with a dose of reality. I don't understand why people get so emotionally involved in what strangers do or don't do, or what they think strangers do or don't do and have no proof about it anyways.

Edited July 30, 2015 by LMaxwell

[fshagan]

Please bare with me but what is DSC ?

 

"Daily Screaming and Crying"

[cathyoo]

No I won't. I don't have a problem paying the additional $2.95 on the DSC and will choose what increased fee items I will use. Why would I penalize the crew, even if I disagreed with any of these changes. Better to just not partake in room service, drinks or specialty restaurants if you disagree.

 

Like

[Lovecruises2014]

Maybe they are dumbing it down for the layman...Some people need extra explanations on what something means

 

How more layman can NCL explain it by literally go gratuities = service charges, services charges are gratuities, gratuities are referred as service charges, service charges equals gratuities. Referred means equals, =, connected and related; how more simplify should that explanation from NCL be?!?!

[sjbdtz]

Spot on. Giving people pennies on the dollar they have earned for good service doesn't tend to make people provide their best service or stay around. If you are ok with "good enough" that's a different story.

 

 

You & Jane Don both miss the point: If the DSC is left alone, then the crew make a good income. It's exactly like in Europe. They do not have a tipping culture, because everybody is paid a living wage. It's an American thing to NOT pay people a living wage and instead rely on HOPING that somebody offers a tip. Really the tipping culture is no different than people living on the street, HOPING somebody will drop some coins into their cup. It's disgusting and belittling to the worker, and the DSC is designed to give them some dignity. But that doesn't seem to matter to you.

 

 

 

This is last time I respond to you unless you do me the courtesy of using words. You expect others to listen to someone too lazy to type out a couple of extra letters? Remember courtesy?

 

And since you asked, $70 room Steward, $70 child care worker and $70 -100 divided based on performance to servers and anyone else who impresses me. All subject to change based on my perspective of performance. I don't care what others pay, I don't care what people like you think. I get better service because I show my appreciation to the person providing it. And the steward would choose the cash tipper. It ain't quantum physics.

 

 

The $70 for the Child Care Worker is SUPPOSED to be ON TOP of the $181 DSC. So you're still short-changing them, by your own admitted amounts.

 

 

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[sjbdtz]

20 posts you keep saying over and over its a service charge and not a gratuity.

 

Please explain why NCLs terms and conditions say "Prepaid gratuities referred as "service charge".

 

Iswn't it interesting that those who are most vocal in their posts will not give you a direct answer to your question ???

 

I wonder why ???

 

 

 

To give you both a direct answer: I do not know why NCL's marketing department has conflated these things.

 

Their marketing department has also NOT conflated them in other areas. They specifically refer to the Service Charge as IN LIEU OF gratuities in most areas, and OTHERWISE KNOWN AS in one or two areas. I do not know the reasoning for the change in language.

 

 

Have you SEEN how many errors & poorly worded elements they have on their website? Chalk this up to that, too.

 

 

Stephen

 

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[sjbdtz]

Spot on. Giving people pennies on the dollar they have earned for good service doesn't tend to make people provide their best service or stay around. If you are ok with "good enough" that's a different story.

 

 

I would MUCH rather have a higher, stable income....than the weekly HOPE that somebody might take pity on me and give me a tip.

 

I'd be giving the exact same service in either situation, because I take pride in my work, and frankly I need the job - it's better than most and I don't want to lose it.

 

 

Stephen

 

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[LMaxwell]

You & Jane Don both miss the point: If the DSC is left alone, then the crew make a good income. It's exactly like in Europe. They do not have a tipping culture, because everybody is paid a living wage. It's an American thing to NOT pay people a living wage and instead rely on HOPING that somebody offers a tip. Really the tipping culture is no different than people living on the street, HOPING somebody will drop some coins into their cup. It's disgusting and belittling to the worker, and the DSC is designed to give them some dignity. But that doesn't seem to matter to you.

 

 

 

 

 

 

The $70 for the Child Care Worker is SUPPOSED to be ON TOP of the $181 DSC. So you're still short-changing them, by your own admitted amounts.

 

 

.

 

And WHY does tipping culture exist in the US? Because employers severely underpay employees to start with. I'm not sure where you get the idea that I don't care. If I didn't care I'd remove DSC and never post about it. instead, I've never removed it and I post about it to have a discussion. Maybe you are the one not getting it?

 

Child care workers are all college degree holders and are not in any tipping pool because they are paid salaries in line with their skills and education, as well as recognizing the services they provide. If someone chooses to tip them for services what is the issue here? The person you quoted said they adjusted amounts based on their perception of services. I don't see it as anybody being short changed.

 

I forgot who it was, but someone in this thread claimed to tip restaurant hostesses too. Now, let's say I actually believed that; I wanted to ask the person if they give the hostess cash directly, or do they add an amount to the credit card bill and ask the restaurant manager to choose what amount goes to the hostess. I'm willing to guess they do it with cash (even though Hostess is an hourly or salaried position and not subject to the same pay scale as servers). Why? because they wanted cash to go directly to the person providing them a service.

 

Stephen, do you want to have a conversation here or do you just want to try to insult people?

[LMaxwell]

There was a post in my email alerts but not on the thread that summed it all up perfectly; do people really think NCL has provided MULTIPLE unscheduled raises to crew in the past 4 months? That would be completely unprecedented.

[sjbdtz]

Furthermore if NCL aren't keeping any of the DSC what would they care what you do? They need the cruise fare to fill the tanks and pay the banks. Claiming NCL care and would ban someone is tacit admittance that NCL are dependent on that money....

 

 

NCL cares what you do, because the top-tier employee whom you didn't encounter (and thus didn't tip) just saw their income decrease to the point where its no longer worth it to work 7 days / week, 10 hours / day, for 9 months away from their spouses & children.

 

This has several effects on NCL:

 

- Not only do they lose a valuable employee

- they have to pay a recruiter to identify a replacement (NCL's cost)

- they have to pay for training & onboarding that replacement (NCL's cost)

- they have to fly that replacement to the ship (NCL's cost)

- they have a risk that the replacement isn't as good as the original person, and causes other people to remove the DSC....which in turn may cause another excellent staff member (maybe the one you tipped a few months earlier) to reach the same conclusion and leave. [repeat]

 

 

I'd figure conservatively that every employee NCL recruits carries $1000 + of onboarding/relocation costs. If NCL can keep their CURRENT employees happy through stable, relatively high pay levels (thanks to the DSC) then they economize on these onboarding and crew churn costs.

 

 

And, to be fair, NCL probably DOES bank the DSC income for a month so maybe there are a few cents worth of investment income flowing to the bottom line.

 

 

But it's a competitive job market if you want the best. You could have anybody, but the best are going to cost you. Judging from the crew we've encountered on our 20+ NCL cruises as compared to the Princess cruise, it's clear NCL invests in this regard.

 

I advocate for the DSC - it has no DIRECT bearing on my life - because it helps reduce the churn, ensuring the crew I've come to know over the years continue to feel adequately rewarded for their efforts.

 

 

Stephen

 

P.S. The team I manage are all paid a combination of Base + Commission (a very close comparator to Base + DSC share), the higher the base the more interesting candidates apply...even when the commission level remains equal. So consistency of income for months where sales are slack, is important to people....even though months where sales are strong are more lucrative....

 

 

.

Edited July 30, 2015 by sjbdtz

[zqvol]

I'm with you. Although, I'd also be okay with them leaving things as they are & banning people who remove/reduce tips more than once. The first time it may be poor service related. The second time I'd consider it a habit & politely ask them to vacation elsewhere. ;) Either works for me.

 

Not a bad idea as long as you are not penalized for removing it for an quantifiable reason after NCL has a chance to fix your issue. Of course wanting to provide gratuities in cash to people who serve you would nto be an acceptable reason it would have to be related to a specific service failure that could not be corrected.

[LMaxwell]

 

I advocate for the DSC - it has no DIRECT bearing on my life - because it helps reduce the churn, ensuring the crew I've come to know over the years continue to feel adequately rewarded for their efforts.

 

 

Would you advocate for NCL providing guests a breakdown like Royal Caribbean (and sister lines) and Carnival (and sister lines) do? I think that would put to rest a lot of noise.