"Loyalty" in general is a thing of the past

[A2Mich]

My inlaws were loyalists who sailed twice a month for the pack n go rate in an inside cabin. They spent zero/nada/zippo while on board. They didn't drink, gamble, do ship excursions, buy du-dahs, and I'll bet my life (during the days of envelopes) that they were pretty darn scimpy on tips, too since they were on a military fixed retirement. And considering they traveled with all the other retirees from MacDill I am sure the cruise line didn't make a fortune on any of these platinum/diamond cruisers.

 

I am sure cruise lines love the newbies and their pocket books...I don't think loosing a few tightwads will hurt their feelings.

 

You have a good point - however, not all repeat cruisers are those tightwads. Carnival also can't afford to assume that every repeat cruiser is in that group. i see an awful lot of posts here on CC from people that state "I will only sail in a balcony or better," or, "I will only book suites," and "I think XYZ's premium drink package is a great deal," etc. These people are most likely spending considerable amounts of money onboard. The cruise lines attempting to alienate them would be foolish. If the cruise lines REALLY wanted to get crazy, they most likely could go back through every customer's history and determine exactly what kind of spender they are. The manpower needed to do so would probably be insane, but is probably possible. I can tell you that the cruiselines do determine a per passenger spending amount for every cruise, though I don't know if they go to the trouble to figure out exactly what every individual spends. I would guess that they do track the "big spenders", whatever that threshold may be.

[mintsugarcube]

why couldn't they have modeled it after royal caribbean/celebrity? They could offer a handful of free drinks or even a handful of half off drinks, without time and usage restrictions, or as mentioned elsewhere, a token obc $25 or so, future cruise discounts(even $50-$100), discounted laundry service, maybe a separate "priority" check in (yet not the same as suite/upper tier loyalty) - sort of like a mid grade check in option, discounts at the steakhouse, etc. None of them written in stone, but all simply suggestions. Any of them would have a perceived value for the passenger, yet cost the cruise line very little in real dollars. I agree that they may have needed to do something because the parties were too crowded, but as i've said before, this was 10000% carnival's fault. If their beancounters didn't do enough research and cost analysis assessments to realize what their real costs would be, they either should not have implemented a loyalty program, or scaled back the perks before they were ever announced. Changing the rules mid-game because they are losing the game says a lot about integrity and morals - specifically that they have none. My feeling is that there is more than one way to make money, yet some people don't agree with that. Most people seem to be of the mindset of spend as little as possible while charging as much as possible. A truly savvy consumer also realizes that greater profits can be made on lower margins at higher volumes. For example, take the same product at two different price points - lets say that you really like this product and seller a is selling it for $1.00. Mind you, this is a product that you really like and would really like to have. Seller b is offering the same product for $3.00. This product cost both vendors 25 cents. If i buy this product from vendor a, i can get three of them and the seller earned $2.25. Seller b has a potential profit of $2.75 on each sale of one unit. However, at that inflated price, i won't buy because i feel it's overpriced. Seller b now has a minimum of 25 cents invested in the product (and now likely more because there are carrying costs for non-moving inventory). Because i feel the price is too high, they have lost the $2.75 in potential profit because of their greed. Who is making more money so far? Seller a - they're making a lower margin, yet selling in larger volume, and therefore has higher revenue and profits. A smaller margin is better than no margin. Bottom line, is that sometimes you have to spend money to make money.

 

Honestly, giving away a few drinks at a true cost of about $5-$10 total may have a perceived value of $50-$100 to the consumer and may actually encourage more onboard spending and also make the consumer feel as if they are worth something other than a dollar figure. They could even raise everyone's fare $20-$50 to more than cover their true costs and likely very few people would notice that difference - they would still be earning more in profits by simply doing something that simple. But no, why accept a lower margin when corporate greed dictates otherwise?

 

bingo!!

[Out to sea!]

You don't think companies spend your money on advertising or other expenses? If carnival did in fact do that, you wouldn't know they did it if they didn't tell you. Who do you think pays for the current past guest party, who pays for priority embarkation, who pays for any and all perks and niceties that they may give away? The consumers do in one way or another. Even when a company is "giving away" something, that cost comes from somewhere--and that somewhere is the consumer.

 

Yep, companies pay for marketing. What is not smart is to spend money directed towards a small audience....spend money towards a large audience is what works.

 

But the simple thing is Carnival has me because they are cheap. I like other lines as well but don;t normally sail them because they cost more. If Carnival kicks up their price to the level of the other lines I will more likely sail the other lines because Carnival is no longer cheap.

Edited May 10, 2015 by Out to sea!

[A2Mich]

But according to reports here and based on what JH said, gold members were numbering well over 1000 pax per sailing? That's not exactly a small audience though

[elliair]

My inlaws were loyalists who sailed twice a month for the pack n go rate in an inside cabin. They spent zero/nada/zippo while on board. They didn't drink, gamble, do ship excursions, buy du-dahs, and I'll bet my life (during the days of envelopes) that they were pretty darn scimpy on tips, too since they were on a military fixed retirement. And considering they traveled with all the other retirees from MacDill I am sure the cruise line didn't make a fortune on any of these platinum/diamond cruisers.

 

I am sure cruise lines love the newbies and their pocket books...I don't think loosing a few tightwads will hurt their feelings.

 

Exactly. On 95% of our cruises, we have booked a balcony. We don't buy pictures, we don't buy trinkets, perfume, jewelry, booze to take home, art, and drinks on a whim. Newbies not being experienced will whip out the S&S card and when they see their final print out they go into shock. Hardly will they be a repeat customer any time soon as they will be working a very long time to pay off the debt. We are not Carnival's or Princesses best customers as we do not buy into all their marketing hype.

[A2Mich]

Exactly. On 95% of our cruises, we have booked a balcony. We don't buy pictures, we don't buy trinkets, perfume, jewelry, booze to take home, art, and drinks on a whim. Newbies not being experienced will whip out the S&S card and when they see their final print out they go into shock. Hardly will they be a repeat customer any time soon as they will be working a very long time to pay off the debt. We are not Carnival's or Princesses best customers as we do not buy into all their marketing hype.

 

 

We don't buy a lot of it either. We did but soda cards for all of us (yes, we were honest and bought it for all 4), a tote bag, ship model (as I collect them), a few little things for the kids, 2 formal night photos, 2 alcoholic drinks, and a $100 deposit on a future cruise. Total bill was $360 for a family of 5 (one is under 2 years old-so didn't get soda card for her) for 7 days. We did pre-pay gratuities, and booked independent shore excursions in St Thomas (do not use Godfrey's) and St Maarten (highly recommend Bernard's), and pre-paid for the soda cards on RCI's website. Overall I don't think we spent a lot onboard since we prepaid what we could. We were probably not their idea of a big spender either, though our promenade cabin was nearly $2800 for 5 of us.

[ohioblue52]

I'm just glad Carnival is making these changes now, before we are too vested. Been platinum with Princess for some time, but it seems they are leaving only a token presence in the Caribbean, so we've tried Carnival a couple times. Carnival is fine but after 4 cruises we see no reason to spend anymore of our vacation dollars with them in an effort to move up the loyalty ladder. We plan on giving NCL, RC, and HAL a try, to see where our loyalty will be next. As shareholders of CCL, HAL may be our next bet.

 

With no reason to climb the loyalty ladder with Carnival, it is easier to shop around.

[ASchaff]

I have sailed Carnival up to this point because they offered me a cruise, at a price I was happy with, and showed appreciation for their loyal customers. They seem to show less appreciation, and their prices are becoming less competitive as the time goes on. I likely won't book Carnival for my next cruise, because they are no longer meeting my customer service expectations, and I can find just as good of a deal, on a nicer ship, with royal carribean. I'm not swearing off cruising, I'm simply choosing to explore other options, with a company, I feel already appreciates me more than Carnival does.

Edited May 12, 2015 by ASchaff

[eponym]

I'm just glad Carnival is making these changes now, before we are too vested. Been platinum with Princess for some time, but it seems they are leaving only a token presence in the Caribbean, so we've tried Carnival a couple times. Carnival is fine but after 4 cruises we see no reason to spend anymore of our vacation dollars with them in an effort to move up the loyalty ladder. We plan on giving NCL, RC, and HAL a try, to see where our loyalty will be next. As shareholders of CCL, HAL may be our next bet.

 

With no reason to climb the loyalty ladder with Carnival, it is easier to shop around.

 

I appreciate the perspective. Are you saying that your really only interested in cruising the Caribbean?

 

I understood everything else in your post.

 

Other than discounted cruise fares, to us, it is not relevent whether a perk/benefit is categorized under any specific heading (loyalty or rewards, etc...). Some on the boards think it makes some kind of difference wehther it's labeled as loyalty or reward, but we do not. And, we too look at total offers not just base rates.

Edited May 12, 2015 by eponym

[eponym]

We don't buy a lot of it either. We did but soda cards for all of us (yes, we were honest and bought it for all 4), a tote bag, ship model (as I collect them), a few little things for the kids, 2 formal night photos, 2 alcoholic drinks, and a $100 deposit on a future cruise. Total bill was $360 for a family of 5 (one is under 2 years old-so didn't get soda card for her) for 7 days. We did pre-pay gratuities, and booked independent shore excursions in St Thomas (do not use Godfrey's) and St Maarten (highly recommend Bernard's), and pre-paid for the soda cards on RCI's website. Overall I don't think we spent a lot onboard since we prepaid what we could. We were probably not their idea of a big spender either, though our promenade cabin was nearly $2800 for 5 of us.

 

That sounds like a very reasonable deal for 5 passengers. Loyalty or rewards aside, the total vacation costs your describing are very attractive to sail RCI.

Edited May 12, 2015 by eponym

[A2Mich]

That sounds like a very reasonable deal for 5 passengers. Loyalty or rewards aside, the total vacation costs your describing are very attractive to sail RCI.

 

 

Which is exactly why we did it. We were all set to pull the trigger on a Carnival cruise and actually booked RCI at a slightly higher price than Carnival. Thanks to a sale and promotion after already booking, the price on the Royal cruise dropped about $800 (700 actual price drop and addition of 100 OBC), while the Carnival cruise kept going up in price. At final payment time, the Carnival cruise was well over $1000 higher than RCI.

[portocaller]

A loyalty program is the last thing a business can do to get what little bit of loyalty I do have. For a cruise line, I want a solid, consistent product. I like Carnival because I have a good time and a soft spot for the tacky decor. There is nothing a loyalty program could offer me that would keep my business if the product becomes subpar.

[eponym]

Which is exactly why we did it. We were all set to pull the trigger on a Carnival cruise and actually booked RCI at a slightly higher price than Carnival. Thanks to a sale and promotion after already booking, the price on the Royal cruise dropped about $800 (700 actual price drop and addition of 100 OBC), while the Carnival cruise kept going up in price. At final payment time, the Carnival cruise was well over $1000 higher than RCI.

 

You have a keen eye, and are maximizing and leveraging your costs and experiences. Please private message me when you happend across something similar again!

 

The mass market brands do wildy swing base prices based on fill, etc.. It's the catch me if you can style of marketing and sales.

 

Loyalty and rewards programs are not going away in the world, so I don't agree with the title of the thread. I think of them as one and the same. Consumers have to be keen on what is of real value, and most important to their holiday/vacation/experience decisions. If it's soley a low budget decision, than their choices are narrowed.

 

We often, happily, pay up to +25% premiums on cruise rates for other brand experiences, for some of the most modern and/or more elegant ships available. Then the Perks/Loyalty/Rewards offered are total gravy added in that can reduce our overall costs and undeniably make it that more enjoyable vacation. But, branded ship pins, bottles, bags, shirts or other such trinkets don't carry any influence on us. In the same vein I never could relate to anyone paying for a transportation company's branded item like a shirt or other item. Give it away is one thing. Calling those things a perk or benefit, or charging separately for them, is not something I relate to and certainly does nothing for loyalty from us or make us feel rewarded.

 

An additional consideration. Other than routes in and out of Ensenada and the ports along Mexico's lined coast, we like 95+% of all ports accessible regardless of brand so that consideration is a total wash for us.

 

One last note, we recently started watching the John Heald's (Carnival Brand) facebook page. Very interesting observations over time where he posts questions and you can sense the demographics in the replies. Carnival's appeal is not for everyone, and their loyalty/rewards program as the 800 pound gorilla seem to fit their demographics.

Edited May 12, 2015 by eponym

[dadroy]

I'm sorry, I HAVE LOYALTY TO ONLY MYSELF!

 

If Carnival offers a cruise at a price I like, with an itinerary I want, on the days I want, and on a decent ship, I will book Carnival.

 

But if RCI, or any other line, offers the same cruise, $500 less pp than Carnival, same approximate ship, sorry I take the other line. I would hope all of you would do the same!

 

Of course if you tell me you would pay the same to sail one of the 20 year old carnival ships rather than the newest NCL or RCI ship on the same itinerary, dates and departure port, then I question your IQ. Above or below a tomato!

 

I would never cruise simply for the loyalty of sailing only a particular line.

[eponym]

I'm sorry, I HAVE LOYALTY TO ONLY MYSELF!...

 

Of course if you tell me you would pay the same to sail one of the 20 year old carnival ships rather than the newest NCL or RCI ship on the same itinerary, dates and departure port, then I question your IQ. Above or below a tomato!

 

Hey Dadroy. Thought I would mention that Red is one of the primary colors of the brand. For a mere $20-$80 less in base fare, lot's of people become blind loyalists on 20 year old ships. But, the gap narrows between brands as onboard expenses within the mass industry lines migrate to ala carte in onboard F&B, activities, food service offerings and comps, and people peek out at newer ships and technologies.

 

Loyalty and rewards, like beauty, is in the eye of the beholder.

Edited May 12, 2015 by eponym

[wallybone]

I am a Gold, i have on the last 3 cruises had 10 new blue card and 4 more red card cruisers with me. The diamond and platinum member don't bring those blue/red cruisers anymore because they have already done that. Now I will look at other lines, not because of the party but the way Carnival has handled this mess. If the cost is close on two different line, I will be going somewhere else so Carnival not only will lose my business but the new cruiser i will be bringing. The next cruise will be next in February in which i will be bringing 12 new blue card cruisers and 5 red card cruisers and 3 gold card cruisers. A few more people like me leave it will make a difference.

[jimbo5544]

I am a Gold, i have on the last 3 cruises had 10 new blue card and 4 more red card cruisers with me. The diamond and platinum member don't bring those blue/red cruisers anymore because they have already done that. Now I will look at other lines, not because of the party but the way Carnival has handled this mess. If the cost is close on two different line, I will be going somewhere else so Carnival not only will lose my business but the new cruiser i will be bringing. The next cruise will be next in February in which i will be bringing 12 new blue card cruisers and 5 red card cruisers and 3 gold card cruisers. A few more people like me leave it will make a difference.

 

You are, of course free to take your cruising dollars elsewhere. I love how everyone says it is the principal of it, or they could have handled it better (which btw, is true for everything, any change at any time). Just so I am sure if I understand, you are leaving, unless Carnival is the cheapest, or somebody is close to as cheap or ??

 

Just for the record, I am diamond and I do bring those red and blue (and gold and platinum and white) cards with me as well. They are fine with the way this was handled and recognize it for what it is, a business decision. All that being said, happy cruising, whereever you cruise....

[wallybone]

You are, of course free to take your cruising dollars elsewhere. I love how everyone says it is the principal of it, or they could have handled it better (which btw, is true for everything, any change at any time). Just so I am sure if I understand, you are leaving, unless Carnival is the cheapest, or somebody is close to as cheap or ??

 

Just for the record, I am diamond and I do bring those red and blue (and gold and platinum and white) cards with me as well. They are fine with the way this was handled and recognize it for what it is, a business decision. All that being said, happy cruising, whereever you cruise....

 

Looking at our next cruise now Royal is $35.00 higher for a balcony than Carnival so we are going Royal. If that was $200.00 then we would stay with Carnival. For the record most diamonds and platinum dont bring new crusier with them because they have allready done that. At least the ones i talked to have said they very seldom bring new people because most of their friends have already sailed with them.

[missygirl]

The OP is spot on...and those pins from Carnival I leave in the cabin when we leave because what could I possibly do with all that I have been given...so for me that could be some money that Carnival can save along with all the other perks they have removed.

[lido deck larry]

Loyalty programs throughout the travel industry have been pared back, including cruise lines. Since the Internet made it easy to shop for the cheapest prices, travel became more of a commodity than it already was. I could care less about perks. It's an antiquated concept. The only benefit is collecting points while traveling on my employer's dime so I can get free travel on my vacation. But I could care less about cutbacks on the little "extras"

 

It seems there is a lot of embitterment about the loyalty program changes on this board, but I doubt it represents the majority of Carnivals' customers.

[jimbo5544]

Looking at our next cruise now Royal is $35.00 higher for a balcony than Carnival so we are going Royal. If that was $200.00 then we would stay with Carnival. For the record most diamonds and platinum dont bring new crusier with them because they have allready done that. At least the ones i talked to have said they very seldom bring new people because most of their friends have already sailed with them.

I get your point (on new cruisers), my point was that perception is only one view. I am diamond and on our last group cruise we had 14 new cruisers (out of 105). I would have to know the ships to comment on your "deal" with Royal in comparison to Carnival.

 

Enjoy your crusie.

[Havingfun2010]

Yet they continue to fill there ships. Price and experience is a lot more important than that loyalty bs and I guarantee you I represent the majority of cruisers when I say black and white are the most important colors to me. It's the color off the boarding pass I print out when I'm paid in full. It's all I need.

 

Price - you can find deals on any cruise line. However, unknown to many at Carnival, price is also based on class of ship. Yes, certain ships with say RCCL will get a premium price. However, the same size ships, you can find similar prices for rooms if you take the time to shop. You can even find deals on Cunard in Europe.

 

Carnival started in 1972. RCCL started in 1969. Cunard been sailing for 175 years. NCL in 1966. Exactly what experience are you referring to?

[Warm Breezes]

Price - you can find deals on any cruise line. However, unknown to many at Carnival, price is also based on class of ship. Yes, certain ships with say RCCL will get a premium price. However, the same size ships, you can find similar prices for rooms if you take the time to shop. You can even find deals on Cunard in Europe.

 

Carnival started in 1972. RCCL started in 1969. Cunard been sailing for 175 years. NCL in 1966. Exactly what experience are you referring to?

 

I take the time to shop and am more than willing to try other lines. I just rarely find a better deal than Carnival for the time and place we want to travel. The times we do sail on other lines are almost always at a higher cost, but the ship I am picking would be better suited to our wants for that vacation so we have been willing to pay a premium to sail it.

[bigeagle12]

When a cruise line offers one free cruise for every ten purchased .. then I may be loyal to a single cruise line.

[poison7fl]

I spend thousands of dollars a year at WalMart and get no loyalty rewards... am I missing something?