Early Del Rio Legacy vs the Sheehan Legacy

[newmexicoNita]

I have meet and spoke to Frank on the Rivera. So what, at this point I am paying more to go on NCL in ways I do not like. I think this room service charge and a la cart pricing is really low class for a cruise line. Ticket prices have gone up. I have read all the comments about how Frank feels about NCL passangers and how he plans to get more money out of them, low class and out of place. My goal is not to pay the least I can for a cruise, it's to have a great experence. If NCL delivers this in October that's great, if not it's the last. I am not part of the NCL, Oceania, Regent, FDR cult.

 

 

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We all have our own opinions and obviously yours and mine do not agree: I can understand being upset about the charge for room service and to some degree a la carte pricing but how in the world would you think that is low class or classless? Have you stayed at hotels like the Waldorf? They change a fortune for room service and how about the top restaurants, both in our country and abroad: they do a la carte all the time. I see the addistion anything but low class. Let me add, even if many of us do not agree on this, that doesn't mean we are part of the FDR fan club or cult as you put it.

 

Enjoy your cruise and try and go with an open mind, though I am sure it will be hard, as you have already made your feelings known.

[Travelcat2]

1. On Radisson/Regent FDR removed staff (from housekeeping to restaurants) IMO On Regent its very much a game of find the one competent person in each venue and stick with them. There of course were also rumors that the better Regent staff were sent off to Oceania while the lesser Oceania staff were shipped off to Regent, which makes no sense unless you're trying to prop up your pet line perhaps.

 

2. On Radisson/Regent FDR closed the room service galley thus negatively impacting those ordering room service and those wanting to have a toasted english muffin delivered in Compass Rose (MDR) in under ~40-45 minutes, further the per diem for customer food was lowered so much the Exec chef came out and said that he couldn't make the type of food that should be served at those prices with the pittance he was given. They also had a neat trick of making sure all the tours came back after the Compass Rose had stopped serving lunch.

 

3. I'll stay out of this part as I rarely go to shows.

 

The overall picture is FDR seems to have raised prices while cutting service quality and efficiency. Further food quality has gone downhill as well. His MO might be good in the short term for the company/shareholders but long term all it takes is for any competitor to either not jack up rates or not slash quality/service (or both) and there go all or a good chunk of his customers.

 

Then theres a wee issue of corporate integrity - if the head of your company makes a promise (all Titanium members are free on the first new ship) and you later fire that head - the corporation should still honor the promise. Those were loyal top tier passengers.

 

I respect your right to your opinion and you certainly have the right to post on the NCL board - whether you have sailed on NCL or not. However, our experience on Regent is quite different than yours.

 

The main reason I am responding to your post is your allegation that Titanium members were suppose to be "free on the first new ship". While I am not Titanium yet, I have close friends that are. All that was promised to Titanium members regarding the new ship was having the opportunity to book first. They were granted what was promised. If my information is incorrect, kindly provide information that substantiates your claim. Thanks.

 

NCL posters, there are ways of disagreeing without being rude. No one has to be rude! It is interesting to read different sides of an issue - as long as it isn't bullying anyone.

[abe3]

Also I am not the only one saying cruise prices didn't go up either. Have read many posts that said they got a great deal with NCL and had received more promotional items than in the past for a lower price than previous years.

Edited August 12, 2015 by abe3

[sfaaa]

NCLH lack of dividend may be the most relevant thing to this discussion, as it implies less "free cash flow" than the others

 

Or restriction imposed by creditors to retire debt first before paying dividend.

[hypercafe]

We all have our own opinions and obviously yours and mine do not agree: I can understand being upset about the charge for room service and to some degree a la carte pricing but how in the world would you think that is low class or classless? Have you stayed at hotels like the Waldorf? They change a fortune for room service and how about the top restaurants, both in our country and abroad: they do a la carte all the time. I see the addistion anything but low class. Let me add, even if many of us do not agree on this, that doesn't mean we are part of the FDR fan club or cult as you put it.

 

Enjoy your cruise and try and go with an open mind, though I am sure it will be hard, as you have already made your feelings known.

 

Yes, I have stayed in the Waldorf and in no way compare that to a cruise on any line, espically not NCL. Yes, I have eaten in many of NYC top restaurants and yes most are a la cart, again no way would I compare them to a cruise. IMO these changes take away from the whole aspect of a cruise line that has the edge on most with the freestyle concept. When you have to look at a menu and make choices based on price per item or sit in you room at 1 am thinking do I want to spend 7 dollars to get a snack it takes the fun out of it. To say you want to squeeze a extra 5 bucks out of each passanger and come up with these ideas is low class IMO. As you can see I have spent over 80 days on NCL and yes I will have fun however my feelings are known. Frank, you got your money, now SHOW ME THE BEEF.

 

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[sjbdtz]

NCLH lack of dividend may be the most relevant thing to this discussion, as it implies less "free cash flow" than the others

 

 

Lack of dividend more likely implies that they have a debt covenant which requires debt:equity to be below a certain threshold before the can pay dividends. It means they're investing in new infrastructure at a higher rate.

 

Lack of dividend also translates into re-investing in the business, or managing currency overseas, or saving for a rainy day, etc.

 

 

Look at Apple.... (say, 2 weeks ago before they had their little melt-down)... they had $203 billion in cash on hand. they have 5.7B shares outstanding, so they could issue a $35 dividend.

 

I guess the reason they don't, is that they don't have enough "free cash flow"?

 

 

What I'd like to see is Total Debt: Total Assets rather than debt:equity. NCL's debt is directly related to asset acquisition, rather than cash burn / run rate.

 

Stephen

 

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[janpo]

Yes, I have stayed in the Waldorf and in no way compare that to a cruise on any line, espically not NCL. Yes, I have eaten in many of NYC top restaurants and yes most are a la cart, again no way would I compare them to a cruise. IMO these changes take away from the whole aspect of a cruise line that has the edge on most with the freestyle concept. When you have to look at a menu and make choices based on price per item or sit in you room at 1 am thinking do I want to spend 7 dollars to get a snack it takes the fun out of it. To say you want to squeeze a extra 5 bucks out of each passanger and come up with these ideas is low class IMO. As you can see I have spent over 80 days on NCL and yes I will have fun however my feelings are known. Frank, you got your money, now SHOW ME THE BEEF.

 

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.

 

 

It's way past $5 per passenger now. $5 would be nothing compared to what he's done.

[sparks1093]

Hey, you guys were complaining about Sheenan so badly last year, I almost canceled my trip. Glad i didn't because I got to see for myself, that some on CC NCL forum just like to whine and moan (saw that last year), no matter who's in charge (seeing the 'difference' this year :rolleyes:). If anything, makes me anticipate my trips even more - so continue complaining over here, I going to enjoy my NCL vacations! :p

 

I don't recall complaining about Sheehan at all. I hope that you do enjoy your NCL vacations:).

Edited August 13, 2015 by sparks1093

[sparks1093]

Nothing Del Rio has done has taken away from my experience with NCL.

 

That's good for you, I can't say the same thing and won't.

[abe3]

That's good for you, I can't say the same thing and won't.

 

 

You don't have to. You are entitled to your own opinion as am I.

[fshagan]

My goodness !!!! If I believed that, I would invest heavily in NCLH !!!!

 

I don't, so I won't. I think I will wait until the value exceeds the debt before I place any faith in their future.

 

Oh !! By the way --- CCL stock pays quarterly dividends while NCLH doesn't return a nickel or dime !!!!

 

The market puts a heavy emphasis on trends and the direction the analysts think the company is going, so CCL, with a more favorable P/E ratio, lower debt/equity ratio, etc. isn't favored because they don't think it can do better in the future. It's already there. But others in the same industry are not there yet, so the emphasis is on what can happen, not what has happened.

 

But they are incredibly fickle with that advice. If profits dip and the debt/equity ratio creeps up rather than down, then they will see the "trend" going negative, and will do to NCLH what they did to CCL: tell people not to buy it.

 

We're no different here, when you think about it. Relatively few of us have sailed and had any of the changes impact us, but we anticipate that they will.

[fshagan]

You don't mention which analysts you follow. My results are different:

CCL is rated equally to NCLH by Schwab, Morningstar, Credit Suisse, Reuters, and MarketEdge -- and CCL is also rated well by Argus and S&P (who don't follow NCLH) plus it pays a 1.91% dividend

RCL is also rated equally by all except Schwab, is followed more widely than NCLH, pays a 1.32% dividend and has run up dramatically since I bought it and CCL

NCLH lack of dividend may be the most relevant thing to this discussion, as it implies less "free cash flow" than the others

 

I did in a prior post ... here are the links to Yahoo finance's grid on analyst opinions over the last few months (I didn't pick out the analysts I can only see in my Fidelity account because others can't see them):

 

http://finance.yahoo.com/q/ao?s=NCLH+Analyst+Opinion

http://finance.yahoo.com/q/ao?s=RCL+Analyst+Opinion

http://finance.yahoo.com/q/ao?s=CCL+Analyst+Opinion

 

You see both NCLH and RCL favored over CCL. I think that's because CCL has very good numbers right now in P/E and other measures, and analysts think in terms of the future, not the present. So "Hold" CCL but "Buy" or "Stong Buy" the other two because they have so much room for improvement.

 

BTW - I'm not trying to get into a pissing match over who knows the most about stocks. It's just that among the noise here was one poster's dire warnings about the debt ratio that he figured out after, paraphrasing here, "reading dozens of SEC documents" ... which is ridiculous because the debt/equity ratio is right there on Yahoo, with comparison to other companies in the same market segment. It's a red herring and the kind of statement no one with a Series 6, Series 7, or Series 65 license would ethically be able to make. It's more akin to the type of thing someone tells you who has a "hot tip" that only they know.

[swedish weave]

I did in a prior post ... here are the links to Yahoo finance's grid on analyst opinions over the last few months (I didn't pick out the analysts I can only see in my Fidelity account because others can't see them):

 

http://finance.yahoo.com/q/ao?s=NCLH+Analyst+Opinion

http://finance.yahoo.com/q/ao?s=RCL+Analyst+Opinion

http://finance.yahoo.com/q/ao?s=CCL+Analyst+Opinion

 

You see both NCLH and RCL favored over CCL. I think that's because CCL has very good numbers right now in P/E and other measures, and analysts think in terms of the future, not the present. So "Hold" CCL but "Buy" or "Stong Buy" the other two because they have so much room for improvement.

 

BTW - I'm not trying to get into a pissing match over who knows the most about stocks. It's just that among the noise here was one poster's dire warnings about the debt ratio that he figured out after, paraphrasing here, "reading dozens of SEC documents" ... which is ridiculous because the debt/equity ratio is right there on Yahoo, with comparison to other companies in the same market segment. It's a red herring and the kind of statement no one with a Series 6, Series 7, or Series 65 license would ethically be able to make. It's more akin to the type of thing someone tells you who has a "hot tip" that only they know.

 

The SEC filings tell a lot more than the Debt/Equity ratio if you bother to read them.

[newmexicoNita]

Yes, I have stayed in the Waldorf and in no way compare that to a cruise on any line, espically not NCL. Yes, I have eaten in many of NYC top restaurants and yes most are a la cart, again no way would I compare them to a cruise. IMO these changes take away from the whole aspect of a cruise line that has the edge on most with the freestyle concept. When you have to look at a menu and make choices based on price per item or sit in you room at 1 am thinking do I want to spend 7 dollars to get a snack it takes the fun out of it. To say you want to squeeze a extra 5 bucks out of each passanger and come up with these ideas is low class IMO. As you can see I have spent over 80 days on NCL and yes I will have fun however my feelings are known. Frank, you got your money, now SHOW ME THE BEEF.

 

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.

 

Of course one can't totally compare a cruise line with a hotel, but those were examples I gave to explain how it isn't low class what he is doing. To publically say: I want to squeeze X number of $$s out of a passenger could have been worded very differently, but still not low class as you put it. It reminds me more of some of the things, Donald Trump has said lately: maybe not all wrong, but could have chosen better words.

 

I still hope you do enjoy your cruise: BTW, I am glad you have spent so many days on NCL, It does show you enjoy the product. We will be sailing again in Oct. I don't know how many days we have spent on NCL: probably close to 200. I too, hope we are not disappointed.The room service doesn't enter the picture for us. There is no reason we even order it except one time when hubby was sick, but I know, for whatever reason many do.

[maywell]

The SEC filings tell a lot more than the Debt/Equity ratio if you bother to read them.

 

Oh goodness gracious!!! The Debt/ Equity doesn't tell the whole story - looking at the profits / revenue; costs, any situations that improve or decrease their margin line like a promos or drowning - helps explains the situation. The Debt from the ship buying / building & Prestige purchase is getting paid off AND they still made profits while doing that instead of being in the total red for 2 quarters (Prestige massive debt take on was literally in the 4th quarter).

 

Need to look at whole big picture and not just one part, because if they were totally in red - do you think so many customers would be booking them with right now seeing a massive profit lost? I believe everyone knows the answer to that...:rolleyes:

[newmexicoNita]

Thank you for sharing..I always tell my grandson I am proud of him for making it this far he worries we will be disappointed if he does not "make it" ..I hope your son has had a wonderful life for the last 30 years...

Jancruz1

 

again, I know we are well off subject, but I have always feared our athletic kids think we love them more for their ability than what else they are. Yes, he is fine, but yes, I think he may be sorry he didn't go the college route first. And amazingly none of his kids are really totally into sports except his youngest son does love to golf like his dad.

 

I will add, regardless of our son's success or failures, we do have one problem: he dosn't like cruising, how sad is that? lol

Edited August 13, 2015 by newmexicoNita

[Jane Don]

Of course one can't totally compare a cruise line with a hotel, but those were examples I gave to explain how it isn't low class what he is doing. To publically say: I want to squeeze X number of $$s out of a passenger could have been worded very differently, but still not low class as you put it. It reminds me more of some of the things, Donald Trump has said lately: maybe not all wrong, but could have chosen better words.

 

I still hope you do enjoy your cruise: BTW, I am glad you have spent so many days on NCL, It does show you enjoy the product. We will be sailing again in Oct. I don't know how many days we have spent on NCL: probably close to 200. I too, hope we are not disappointed.The room service doesn't enter the picture for us. There is no reason we even order it except one time when hubby was sick, but I know, for whatever reason many do.

 

You know what is low class? Selling cruises at a great deal for weeks when you have no intention of sailing those ships. In any other industry it is illegal. NCL knew for weeks, probably months about the specifics of the redeployment yet still accepted reservations and deposit money. It IS low class. It IS very Donald Trump like. It is not wrong to redeploy your fleet. It IS wrong to deceive your customers.

[maywell]

Just because I post in the NCL forum doesn't mean that I am still sailing with NCL:rolleyes:. For our cruise next year I did choose CCL.

And I sure Carnival is not having their issues as well.[emoji57]

 

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[sparks1093]

And I sure Carnival is not having their issues as well.[emoji57]

 

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Yes, they are having their issues, too. If the goal is to sail with a cruise line that doesn't have issues we'd all be landlocked.

[swedish weave]

Oh goodness gracious!!! The Debt/ Equity doesn't tell the whole story - looking at the profits / revenue; costs, any situations that improve or decrease their margin line like a promos or drowning - helps explains the situation. The Debt from the ship buying / building & Prestige purchase is getting paid off AND they still made profits while doing that instead of being in the total red for 2 quarters (Prestige massive debt take on was literally in the 4th quarter).

 

Need to look at whole big picture and not just one part, because if they were totally in red - do you think so many customers would be booking them with right now seeing a massive profit lost? I believe everyone knows the answer to that...:rolleyes:

 

The reason the ships are sailing full is because of the massive giveaways that Del Rio instituted to boost the revenue numbers and booking numbers.

 

I can see that you haven't bothered to read the SEC filings. If you did that, your opinions and arguments might be altered a little.

 

You are furnishing a lot of rhetoric, but no facts or numbers to support your statements. If you want to dispute what I have posted, please have the courtesy to furnish FACTS to support your disputes.

[abe3]

Bunch of kids arguing. Got to love it.

[motleyfan]

That's good for you, I can't say the same thing and won't.

 

The changes have not been that major. Plus there have been some positive changes, bringing the epic back to Florida is a huge plus.

[maywell]

The reason the ships are sailing full is because of the massive giveaways that Del Rio instituted to boost the revenue numbers and booking numbers.

 

I can see that you haven't bothered to read the SEC filings. If you did that, your opinions and arguments might be altered a little.

 

You are furnishing a lot of rhetoric, but no facts or numbers to support your statements. If you want to dispute what I have posted, please have the courtesy to furnish FACTS to support your disputes.

Would you like me to post links to Bloomberg, Yahoo Finance, Nasdaq, Business week, Motley's fool and other business news websites to give you flavor behind the debt you swear is more important than the actual decision-making and market conditions? Because all of them go right back to SEC filings anyway and give more financial background than what debt shows, which a miniscule part of the story.

 

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Edited August 13, 2015 by maywell

[swedish weave]

Would you like me post links to Bloomberg, Yahoo Finance, Nasdaq, Business week, Motley's fool and other business news websites to give you flavor behind the debt you swear is more important than the actual decision-making and market conditions?

 

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I didn't ask for links !!!!

[footballbabe3]

I can't believe I'm saying this, but my cruise for 2017 is booked thru Carnival.

We left Carnival because we felt that NCL was more concerned about a quality cruise for a decent price. Now I feel that NCL could care less about its cruisers. We are not tightwads and I don't expect to get everything for nothing. We always book either Havens, or suites. We just felt that NCL

was giving the customer more bang for the buck. We are on our 3rd NCL cruise and would still be loyal if things had not changed.