Low Waters on the Elbe

[journey47]

Enjoy updates on Elbe, but all posts seem to be for Viking. Anyone go with Grand Circle?? We are booked to go in early November.

[CPT Trips]

Enjoy updates on Elbe, but all posts seem to be for Viking. Anyone go with Grand Circle?? We are booked to go in early November.

 

We are going on GCT, leave 10/28 for the Hamburg pre-trip, then to Berlin. We're reigned to tying on the boat for a couple days in Wittenburg and a hotel in Dresden as they have been doing for several trips. Seven weeks to get rain . . . Cue up C+C Music Factory - "Everybody Dance Now" and hope for rain.

[editor@cruisecritic]

Hi, thanks for the insight. But here's my question: From my admittedly not-infallible memory, the river lines have traditionally serviced the Elbe. I remember when I first started covering river and hearing that it was the most beautiful of Europe's tributaries to cruise.

 

Has something changed re water levels in the past three years or so? I remember AmaWaterways saying it would build a ship for the Elbe and then decided not to. At the same time, I remember it was also the one river that never got new ships. Until now (and until, again, next year when Croisi comes into the market).

 

Looking for your insight and perspective. Thanks.

 

Carolyn

 

 

Carolyn, every place they are going is reachable by car. Some places make sense to go to on the river. Some don't apparently the Elbe is a place you can go to sometimes. That doesn't seem to be a good place to routinely try to visit on a river boat, whether you are viking or in your personal boat. Most all rivers are navigable if you build enough infrastructure(ie locks and levies). My uncle reached it in a tank and then they started drinking vodka with the Russians...:D

 

jc

[editor@cruisecritic]

Yikes, JC! Loved the CS Lewis quote :)

 

Carolyn

 

Carolyn, every place they are going is reachable by car. Some places make sense to go to on the river. Some don't apparently the Elbe is a place you can go to sometimes. That doesn't seem to be a good place to routinely try to visit on a river boat, whether you are viking or in your personal boat. Most all rivers are navigable if you build enough infrastructure(ie locks and levies). My uncle reached it in a tank and then they started drinking vodka with the Russians...:D

 

jc

[xpcdoojk]

Yikes, JC! Loved the CS Lewis quote :)

 

Carolyn

 

Carolyn, you should not appreciate my humor... I have had to sweet talk Laura several times to remain a member in good standing over the years.:D I am one of the bad boys.:D

 

That said, thank you. I wouldn't share it if it didn't apply to the world we live in.

 

As the Elbe goes, my only experience, was from my late uncle. Who was a hot AAA up and coming baseball left-handed pitching prospect in ST. Louis when this little thing called WWII happened. He was recruited into the tank corp and was assigned to their baseball team, he and several other big league and minor league stars played all over the US and Europe. Then in December 1944, the Germans invaded the Ardennes (Battle of the Bulge) and were trying to sever the allied supply lines coming from the ports in Belgium (one of my favorite places to visit BTW). The guys who had spent the previous two years as celebrities playing baseball for the troops were suddenly forced into the roles they trained for. My uncle became a tank gunner. They were being told to prepare to attack Berlin, when the word came that the war was over, and they met up with the Russians at the Elbe and it was pretty tense, because they were in Patton's third armored and Patton thought we needed to go to Moscow because it would be better to fight them now, than later. Cooler heads prevailed, but my uncle, who pitched only in the minors and then became the head football coach for a couple of year at Toledo University, before coaching in a surburban Chicago High School, was relieved when they met the Russians they had drinks and a party and didn't start killing each other. He was a really cool guy. Retired to Colorado in the winters and taught kids to ski that were mentally challenged. (please forgive any mis rembrances of that horrible war... I was a kid hearing most of those stories)

 

Sigh.... miss him.

 

jc

[steamboats]

Carolyn,

 

No, nothing has changed on the Elbe river. This is and was always the most tricky river regarding low and high waters due to the fact that there is no lock and dam system on the German side.

 

It was always an hit or miss thing. My cruise in 2007 (BTW end of May/early June) from Dresden to Hamburg (Deilmann) started out with: We have to skip our scenic cruise upriver to the Czech border due to the low water. We can go upriver but the channel is too narrow to turn around. So we had an extra day in Dresden and we opted for the optional bus ride to Prague. Also on our way to Hamburg one landing was too shallow for us and we had to skip that port.

 

Anyway this year is a real extreme year.

 

steamboats

[notamermaid]

Hello Carolyn,

 

just to add to steamboats reply. What is happening on the Elbe with a "non-managed and non-industrialized" river is the same as you see in the Rhine gorge at very low water levels or on the Danube near Vilshofen. The Loire is even more extreme having always been known as extremely shallow and it is only available now because CroisiEurope has built the tried-and-tested paddle boat technology. On the Elbe there are still the old paddle boats in operation, for a very good reason.

 

One more thing: there is a lock on the Czech side keeping water in the Czech republic. How much, and what both countries' water authorities have agreed, I do not know.

 

To keep more water in the Elbe section where the cruise ships sail you would have to have at least one more lock further downstream. However, such a solution is not easily achieved as there is controversy as regards the impact on nature (wildlife in and near the river). The same applies to dretching out the navigation channel, i.e. even that is not wanted by many people.

 

As steamboats has pointed out, this year is extreme, also on the Rhine.

 

notamermaid

[editor@cruisecritic]

Wow! Thanks for the insights, Steamboats and notamermaid.

 

I'm preparing for a stationary cruise :)

 

Carolyn

 

Hello Carolyn,

 

just to add to steamboats reply. What is happening on the Elbe with a "non-managed and non-industrialized" river is the same as you see in the Rhine gorge at very low water levels or on the Danube near Vilshofen. The Loire is even more extreme having always been known as extremely shallow and it is only available now because CroisiEurope has built the tried-and-tested paddle boat technology. On the Elbe there are still the old paddle boats in operation, for a very good reason.

 

One more thing: there is a lock on the Czech side keeping water in the Czech republic. How much, and what both countries' water authorities have agreed, I do not know.

 

To keep more water in the Elbe section where the cruise ships sail you would have to have at least one more lock further downstream. However, such a solution is not easily achieved as there is controversy as regards the impact on nature (wildlife in and near the river). The same applies to dretching out the navigation channel, i.e. even that is not wanted by many people.

 

As steamboats has pointed out, this year is extreme, also on the Rhine.

 

notamermaid

[editor@cruisecritic]

Steamboats, if the Elbe is at 71, what does it need to get to in order at least for the newer Viking ships to be able to cruise?

 

Carolyn

[editor@cruisecritic]

Wow! What a great story. There's a book in that, jc.

 

CSB

 

 

Carolyn, you should not appreciate my humor... I have had to sweet talk Laura several times to remain a member in good standing over the years.:D I am one of the bad boys.:D

 

That said, thank you. I wouldn't share it if it didn't apply to the world we live in.

 

As the Elbe goes, my only experience, was from my late uncle. Who was a hot AAA up and coming baseball left-handed pitching prospect in ST. Louis when this little thing called WWII happened. He was recruited into the tank corp and was assigned to their baseball team, he and several other big league and minor league stars played all over the US and Europe. Then in December 1944, the Germans invaded the Ardennes (Battle of the Bulge) and were trying to sever the allied supply lines coming from the ports in Belgium (one of my favorite places to visit BTW). The guys who had spent the previous two years as celebrities playing baseball for the troops were suddenly forced into the roles they trained for. My uncle became a tank gunner. They were being told to prepare to attack Berlin, when the word came that the war was over, and they met up with the Russians at the Elbe and it was pretty tense, because they were in Patton's third armored and Patton thought we needed to go to Moscow because it would be better to fight them now, than later. Cooler heads prevailed, but my uncle, who pitched only in the minors and then became the head football coach for a couple of year at Toledo University, before coaching in a surburban Chicago High School, was relieved when they met the Russians they had drinks and a party and didn't start killing each other. He was a really cool guy. Retired to Colorado in the winters and taught kids to ski that were mentally challenged. (please forgive any mis rembrances of that horrible war... I was a kid hearing most of those stories)

 

Sigh.... miss him.

 

jc

[steamboats]

Carolyn,

 

According to the Neptun wharf both (Beyla and Astrid) are drawing 95 cm minumum (1.15 m maximum).

 

So with a channel of 71 cm deep I don´t think they are able to move.

 

steamboats

[notamermaid]

Thank you steamboats for that link. Very interesting. Of course, we know that both ships were custom-built for the Elbe. But they also used new materials for reducing the overall weight of the ship. The article calls the Elbe area "challenging". Good way of putting it. The wharf even got a grand from a German governmental body for doing the design process for the Viking Beyla, i.e. as I have understood it, for putting the innovative ideas on paper.

 

But frustatingly, this year, Viking could not use the great new design much... I feel a bit sorry for the guys. I mean all the men and women who have put great effort into making it work.

 

notamermaid

[gone2c]

We were told on board it was 90 cm. Irregardless, I don't think there's a prayer those boats are going to move in the near future.

[CPT Trips]

Carolyn,

 

According to the Neptun wharf both (Beyla and Astrid) are drawing 95 cm minumum (1.15 m maximum).

 

So with a channel of 71 cm deep I don´t think they are able to move.

 

steamboats

 

I visited that link, saw the headline and then recalled seeing this. :D ;)

 

[steamboats]

I visited that link, saw the headline and then recalled seeing this. :D ;)

 

At least we only need one word to say "river cruise ship" (Flusskreuzfahrtschiff) :p!

 

steamboats

[editor@cruisecritic]

Not in the near future, anyway; just got a letter from Viking about our Sept. 19th Prague-to-Berlin trip. We're doing a ship swap!

 

Thought the letter was solid, gave us info on travel time between ports we'd normally have sailed to, and nothing seemed daunting. Also generous: A $1,000 future cruise credit. Or you can cancel for a full refund, which is generous as well.

 

I'm still very much looking forward to the trip (and hanging in my favorite Aquavit Terrace forward rocking chair). Still, I wonder: What would you do? Would you still go or cancel if the option were presented?

 

Carolyn

 

 

We were told on board it was 90 cm. Irregardless, I don't think there's a prayer those boats are going to move in the near future.

[RDC1]

Not in the near future, anyway; just got a letter from Viking about our Sept. 19th Prague-to-Berlin trip. We're doing a ship swap!

 

Thought the letter was solid, gave us info on travel time between ports we'd normally have sailed to, and nothing seemed daunting. Also generous: A $1,000 future cruise credit. Or you can cancel for a full refund, which is generous as well.

 

I'm still very much looking forward to the trip (and hanging in my favorite Aquavit Terrace forward rocking chair). Still, I wonder: What would you do? Would you still go or cancel if the option were presented?

 

Carolyn

 

I would cancel and probably convert to an on my own hotel and train trip. The problem with a stationary river boat is the bus times can get rather long. would rather go spend a couple of days each in a few different cities.

[ural guy]

I would cancel and probably convert to an on my own hotel and train trip. The problem with a stationary river boat is the bus times can get rather long. would rather go spend a couple of days each in a few different cities.

 

 

That's great if you've booked your own flights. Several people have reported that their cruise has been canceled; they asked to keep the cruise lines air transportation, and it's been a no go.

 

I'm with you though, I'd be so excited about going, and having vacation time scheduled at work, that I'd figure out a trip on the fly. We were fortunate enough to live in Germany for a bit, so definitely do-able.

[xpcdoojk]

I would cancel and probably convert to an on my own hotel and train trip. The problem with a stationary river boat is the bus times can get rather long. would rather go spend a couple of days each in a few different cities.

 

I agree with you, assuming that Carolyn (or anyone else in that situation) is capable of doing this kind of non escorted travel.

 

jc

[CPT Trips]

DW and I were discussing this. IF we can keep the cruise air and get the rest refunded, we likely will DIY. Just do Berlin, Dresden and Prague . . .

 

If it's all or nothing, and my gut tells me that's what it will be, we'll do all.

 

We're still rain dancing!

[RDC1]

DW and I were discussing this. IF we can keep the cruise air and get the rest refunded, we likely will DIY. Just do Berlin, Dresden and Prague . . .

 

If it's all or nothing, and my gut tells me that's what it will be, we'll do all.

 

We're still rain dancing!

 

If the complete cruise and air fare was refunded then I would just accept the cancellation and move on to plan the next trip.

[steamboats]

Carolyn,

 

Even at Hamburg they do have problems. The QM2 usually docks at HafenCity. But currently there´s too much mud and silt due to the low water situation (not enough current to wash it away). So the QM2 has to dock at the new terminal Steinwerder on the other side tomorrow during the Hamburg Cruise Days.

 

steamboats

[DrivesLikeMario]

Is there any rain in the forecast for the Elbe River area? I know someone who is cruising in a few weeks. His first cruise was cancelled and now he's hoping the Oct. date will be okay. I hate to see him disappointed twice!

[steamboats]

No rain for the next few days. Actually temps are going up.

 

steamboats

[DrivesLikeMario]

No rain for the next few days. Actually temps are going up.

 

steamboats

 

Oh no!! Please keep us posted if/when you get rain. Thanks so much.