Carnival Liberty Evacuation

[Retired_to_Cruise]

It appears Carnival is getting better at dealing with this disasters, but they are still falling short on the communication factor.

 

When cruise passengers have to read from social media, the flight schedule....something's not right.

 

I know there are lessons to be learned from each disaster, I would hope the next big lesson is to beef up the communication team.

 

24 hour communication/representatives made available thru Twitter, FB and any other media outlet (no it's not manned 24 hours right now)

 

 

Of what value would the JH posted flight schedule have been to the ship's passengers. It has no names on it. They would have gained no valuable information from the list of the types of planes and the number of seats on each plane. It would be useless. Sending individual letters to those on those flights with the instructions about how the process will work is the proper way to do it. Leave the process of solving this situation to the people in positions to make the proper decisions and communicate the proper instructions.

Edited September 9, 2015 by Retired_to_Cruise

[mcatmcat]

Because the cruise started in San Juan not Florida.

 

 

Oh thanks, it makes sense now

[jordanaire]

Jordannaire

 

Was this 1999? W had our cruise cancelled on the paradise for an issue. We were scheduled to go in August. We got a refund and a large discount on our next cruise.

 

It was on July 16, 2000

[Carol_Hill]

As someone else said, the only flights on Flight Aware that look like they would be taking cruise passengers to SJU would be an Eastern (!!) flight at 5:40 PM, which is a 737, and National Cargo at 6:15 PM, which is a 757. There was also a regularly scheduled Jet Blue to SJU at 4:35, but figure that one would have been fairly full already. Otherwise, don't see where there are any other flights scheduled from STT to SJU today, other than Cape Air, which is a dinky plane. Kind of doesn't make sense for them to take anyone to SJU today, unless it is people who live there, or unless they have been able to book them on another flight from there tonight. Why would they do that and have to pay for lodging for them in SJU tonight? Makes no sense to do that, versus leaving them on the ship.

Edited September 9, 2015 by Carol_Hill

[PortSideCruzan]

I am going to actually get off the ship and explore St Thomas. We did not do anything the day of the fire and yesterday we stayed on the ship to find out if we were going to continue the cruise as scheduled. As I leave the ship, I am going to try to speak to passengers leaving today to find out if they are being flown to San Juan and being put in hotels until their normally scheduled flight happens, or if Carnival is scheduling flights to their home towns from San Juan today.

Hi Pauleydm :)

 

So happy to hear you're going ashore to explore St Thomas.

 

Thanks again for all of the valuable updates you have been providing & effort.

 

Enjoy your time in St Thomas!!

 

:)

 

[Retired_to_Cruise]

The cruise ships are getting bigger with an increasing number of passengers. Much higher passenger density. In addition, the number of crew/passenger ratio is getting smaller. Increasingly, the ships are relying more on automation. This may work well when everything is functioning as planned, but when a system breaks down, there seems to be an absence of the human factor (enough well trained crew) to handle this. Whether it is Norovirus contamination, generators breaking down, or fires, are the cruise lines relaxing their safety standards.

 

I do remember that once, when on Carnival, during the life-boat drill, the crew at times appeared to be puzzled as to which passengers or section would go to which life-boat. I would have hated to see that happen during a real emergency.

 

From my "limited" experience, it is the CD who is on the bridge making the announcement during the

muster drill relating to which lifeboats and rafts will be used by which muster station. So what did you see that made you say "during the life-boat drill, the crew at times appeared to be puzzled as to which passengers or sections would go to which life-boat"?

Edited September 9, 2015 by Retired_to_Cruise

[Sweet Dutch Girl]

I would hate to be the one at Carnival in charge of logistics during this.

 

My individual and totally IMHO perspective.

 

Who, besides those ON THE SHIP needs to be COMMUNICATED to: the world at random, CC or facebook readers, casual collectors of random information, even future cruisers don't need to know what is being done with those on the ship, they only need to be told if their future cruise is cancelled and, as of now, that is a NO.

 

Doesn't St. Thomas have telephone service? Those on the ship aren't expected home until Sunday or later. If they need to ensure loved ones they can call or email...weren't they given $150 onboard credit to help in enabling them to do this.

 

Even the OP hasn't spoken to those departing today....they probably have direct information on what is happening to them once they disembark the ship. Carnival won't be abandoning them in San Juan, I would think, without additional information.

 

It's probably taken an army of administrative personnel to work through travel issues...it isn't like Carnival has a mass of people sitting around just in case an emergency like this happens. I bet lots of peeps at headquarters have been putting in some serious overtime. And regardless of Carnivals good intentions they are at the mercy of chartered airlines being able to round up flight crews and air hostesses at such short notice. That takes time and coordination, too.

 

Carnival is also coordination food supplies while at St. Thomas...no matter how much they left with on Sunday replenishment is always done at ports of call and now this has to be done at a port where they were only scheduled for a single day.

 

As the OP has stated he hasn't received his travel plans, yet. So far, with today's bunch and those who were transported to Barbados less than a third of the passengers have been airlifted off of the Island. I am sure that coordination for the other 2500 passengers is still "in the works".

 

No matter how well anyone or any organization plans for potential emergencies the resolution isn't something that can be done in a matter of minutes or hours, though some posters seem to think that Carnival should be superman, wonder woman, etc.

[bouhunter]

I would hate to be the one at Carnival in charge of logistics during this.

 

My individual and totally IMHO perspective.

 

Who, besides those ON THE SHIP needs to be COMMUNICATED to: the world at random, CC or facebook readers, casual collectors of random information, even future cruisers don't need to know what is being done with those on the ship, they only need to be told if their future cruise is cancelled and, as of now, that is a NO.

 

Doesn't St. Thomas have telephone service? Those on the ship aren't expected home until Sunday or later. If they need to ensure loved ones they can call or email...weren't they given $150 onboard credit to help in enabling them to do this.

 

Even the OP hasn't spoken to those departing today....they probably have direct information on what is happening to them once they disembark the ship. Carnival won't be abandoning them in San Juan, I would think, without additional information.

 

It's probably taken an army of administrative personnel to work through travel issues...it isn't like Carnival has a mass of people sitting around just in case an emergency like this happens. I bet lots of peeps at headquarters have been putting in some serious overtime. And regardless of Carnivals good intentions they are at the mercy of chartered airlines being able to round up flight crews and air hostesses at such short notice. That takes time and coordination, too.

 

Carnival is also coordination food supplies while at St. Thomas...no matter how much they left with on Sunday replenishment is always done at ports of call and now this has to be done at a port where they were only scheduled for a single day.

 

As the OP has stated he hasn't received his travel plans, yet. So far, with today's bunch and those who were transported to Barbados less than a third of the passengers have been airlifted off of the Island. I am sure that coordination for the other 2500 passengers is still "in the works".

 

No matter how well anyone or any organization plans for potential emergencies the resolution isn't something that can be done in a matter of minutes or hours, though some posters seem to think that Carnival should be superman, wonder woman, etc.

 

Very well thought out and written! I wouldn't want to be in charge of this at Carnival either. Has to be a stressful and thankless position to be in:(

[DrAKA]

Was on the Liberty the end of July-August on a Chartered Cruise. It would have been a mess if this happened. I am sorry the cruise was interrupted. Good job in reporting Pauleydm. Hope you get home safely.

The Liberty has another charter scheduled to leave out of San Juan on October 24th. I am too ready for this cruise and hope all is well by then.

[Retired_to_Cruise]

As someone else said, the only flights on Flight Aware that look like they would be taking cruise passengers to SJU would be an Eastern (!!) flight at 5:40 PM, which is a 737, and National Cargo at 6:15 PM, which is a 757. There was also a regularly scheduled Jet Blue to SJU at 4:35, but figure that one would have been fairly full already. Otherwise, don't see where there are any other flights scheduled from STT to SJU today, other than Cape Air, which is a dinky plane. Kind of doesn't make sense for them to take anyone to SJU today, unless it is people who live there, or unless they have been able to book them on another flight from there tonight. Why would they do that and have to pay for lodging for them in SJU tonight? Makes no sense to do that, versus leaving them on the ship.

 

Maybe because these people asked to go today on the questionnaires they had to fill out for the Carnival logistics people that were described by the OP. And it is probably also due to the need to stretch the departures over a few days because of the lack of availability of the number of needed seats on the planes that are available each day for this airlift. Which is why the first plan was to try to get the Coast Guard approval to sail back to San Juan with the passengers on it. There are many possible reasons that you would not even think to look into. That's why they did not call you to execute these plans.

Edited September 9, 2015 by Retired_to_Cruise

[tafische]

That's why they did not call you to execute these plans.

 

Best answer of the day.

 

I like you John! We might just have to cruise together one day.

[rlkubi]

I think Carnival has gone above and beyond. The logistics of getting everyone home etc. takes time! I've booked fights for 50 - I can't imagine booking for 3,000! The people are still on St. Thomas which is a beautiful island. I would make the best of it. This wasn't Carnival's fault.

[poz222]

There is a definite "protocol" at HQ, similar to the command centers during hurricanes and natural disasters which are manned 24 hours since it happened. Working overtime is an understatement. There are so many variables and representatives from the Technical department, safety, PR, sales, travel,and logistics, purchasing etc all are trying to coordinate as there are so many moving parts to these things. Having some personal insight to what happens I can assure you there are a LOT of stressed people and one of the biggest concerns is getting the "correct" information to the people who have the greatest need to know. Misinformation is a root cause for chaos so there is a fine line in any emergency situation between timely info and accurate info. It is tough to put toothpaste back in the tube so better to have all the brushes lines up before you squeeze.

[realjd]

I stand corrected. There's an Eastern Airlines (not THAT Eastern Airlines, but a new Miami-based charter airline founded this year) 737-800 flight scheduled to depart STT for SJU at 5:40 PM. I wonder if that's one of our birds?

 

I also see a charter on National Cargo to depart STT for SJU at 6:25 PM, on a 757-200. I wonder if that's really a cargo flight or if that's one of our birds too?

 

EDIT: National Cargo also operates passenger charters.

 

Those are probably the flights. FlightAware isn't showing any history for those flight numbers which usually means they're special charters. NCR701's flight plan is SFB-STT-SJU which also points heavily toward it being one of Carnival's flights.

[gtalum]

Those are probably the flights. FlightAware isn't showing any history for those flight numbers which usually means they're special charters. NCR701's flight plan is SFB-STT-SJU which also points heavily toward it being one of Carnival's flights.

 

Agreed. I saw that the National flight was coming from Sanford.

 

What's puzzling is that John Heald mentioned 6 flights, and so far only two are scheduled in the system.

[gone_cruisin]

Agreed. I saw that the National flight was coming from Sanford.

 

 

 

What's puzzling is that John Heald mentioned 6 flights, and so far only two are scheduled in the system.

 

Editing to add more info: The flights show up on flight aware once the flight plans are filed with Air Traffic Control. Obviously the company has not filed the other legs yet (most likely the later departures)

Edited September 9, 2015 by gone_cruisin

[Sweet Dutch Girl]

Editing to add more info: The flights show up on flight aware once the flight plans are filed with Air Traffic Control. Obviously the company has not filed the other legs yet (most likely the later departures)

 

These are 40 minute flights one way. I, too, presume they will turn around once their passengers are offloaded.

[gone_cruisin]

These are 40 minute flights one way. I, too, presume they will turn around once their passengers are offloaded.

 

 

That's about right. 10 minutes to taxi out, 20 minutes flight time, 10 minutes to taxi in.

[PTAngel]

I have been reading this thread every chance I get. I am not scheduled to cruise on this ship but I am cruising in March on the Carnival Pride. This is not affecting my confidence in cruising.

 

My questions are:

Once all the passengers are off the ship, what happens to the staff in say housekeeping & dining rooms?

Are they evacuated also & will they lose their pay?

How can Carnival refund pre-paid gratuities while passengers are still using those services?

What are their duties when the passengers are gone?

 

I can see that the passengers are well taken care of but what about the employees?

[Sweet Dutch Girl]

I have been reading this thread every chance I get. I am not scheduled to cruise on this ship but I am cruising in March on the Carnival Pride. This is not affecting my confidence in cruising.

 

My questions are:

Once all the passengers are off the ship, what happens to the staff in say housekeeping & dining rooms?

Are they evacuated also & will they lose their pay?

How can Carnival refund pre-paid gratuities while passengers are still using those services?

What are their duties when the passengers are gone?

 

I can see that the passengers are well taken care of but what about the employees?

 

Many of us have the understanding, but no insider information, that insurance kicked in as soon as the cruise was interrupted. From what we are led to believe this insurance "pays" the staff and crew. If not, my personal belief is that Carnival kicks in to make sure the staff does not suffer from an issue that was out of their control.

 

If the ship sails back empty the crew still has their assigned responsibilities. Just like a flight crew flying an empty plane. The staff will use the time, I am sure, to spiff up the ship. Maybe they will get a nice party onboard on Saturday, use of the pools, etc.

[glentally]

Let me see if I understand all of this via the posts from our original OP:

 

Those who embarked in Barbados, 100 souls or so, have been flown to Barbados and are disembarking on schedule. The flight paid for by Carnival.

 

Those who boarded in San Juan are being flown either to San Juan to continue their vacation and using their own scheduled flight out or they can chose to fly "home" on Carnival's dime sometime Wednesday, Thursday or Friday.

 

Prior to their flight all passengers are invited to stay on their floating hotel in St. Thomas and have the use of $150 (each) for onboard expenses.

 

All gratuities paid are being returned to passengers (if pre-paid) and no gratuities for their time on the ship will be charged. All pre-paid excursions will be reimbursed. Passengers who had private excursions will have to work directly with those excursions for any reimbursements just like they would have to do if the ship "missed ports" in the normal course of any cruise. (Every "private" excursion I have ever booked has a clause that if the cruise ship doesn't "show-up" they reimburse their customer).

 

All passengers will have the cost of this particular cruise reimbursed and will receive 50% off of any future cruise.

 

So for the cost of transportation to and from San Juan a passenger is getting from 3 to 5 days free on a floating hotel (and St. Thomas isn't a bad port). They are being reimbursed for the cruise and this money can be used at their discretion.

 

No one missed work, no additional expenses have been incurred, no one went hungry. I'd trade places with the OP anyday.

 

All good points!!! But Aunt Zelda will still not be happy!

Edited September 9, 2015 by glentally

[jpm1973]

All good points!!!

 

But what about Aunt Zelda??

...

Edited September 9, 2015 by jpm1973

[caribill]

Many of us have the understanding, but no insider information, that insurance kicked in as soon as the cruise was interrupted. From what we are led to believe this insurance "pays" the staff and crew. If not, my personal belief is that Carnival kicks in to make sure the staff does not suffer from an issue that was out of their control.

 

 

In the scheme of things, the pay for the crew (including tips) for a week or so on a single ship is a minor expense compared to the overall cost of an interrupted cruise like this one.

 

I would suspect that CCL self-insures for small expenses such as this one and commercial insurance would be relatively costly. Or if they do have commercial insurance, there is probably a multi-million $$ deductible and this pay would likely be less than the deductible.

[wanderingjew]

We are in St Thomas on the Carnival Liberty. All passengers were evacuated off the ship at 11:45 am. We do not know what is going on.

How much damage was done?

[pauleydm]

I am back from the port $400.00 lighter...lol. I spoke to a Carnival Care Specialist. The guests who disembarked today were primarily guests from San Juan, international guests and guests who expressed the desire to leave as soon as possible. I was not able to confirm if those who do not live in San Juan are being provided hotel accommodations in San Juan and then returning home on their previously scheduled flights.