Empress Returning to RCCL?

[OfTheSeasCruiser]

She'd be perfect for Norfolk. She could fit into Hamilton or St.George's, which would completely wipe away the problem of not having a place to dock in Bermuda. 6 night Bahamas to Nassau and CocoCay with 2 sea days back. 8 night to San Juan, St.Thomas, and Labadee, two sea days each way. Maybe some 10 or 11 night cruises. Charleston could work too. The only issue would be A) lack of balconies and B) no covered pool (does she have a covered pool?). But a yearround deployment in Norfolk would be good for her.

 

Regarding balconies... Here's my idea:

 

All of the rooms located within the boxes are currently Ocean View rooms. They could most likely add balconies (even if they're relatively small) onto the rooms in the red boxes. Although it might not be the prettiest thing to do, it would solve the balcony problem. They already did this sort of thing to Legend and Splendour. They could possibly add balconies to the rooms in the yellow box, but the life boats might be a problem there.

 

 

P.s. I might have too much time on my hands... ;)

[cruiserhal]

My DW pointed out to me that the prices I listed earlier INCLUDED air from major cities with only a small add-on for other cities! Now that was a WOW! I had forgotten that little fact.

 

Sorry

[John&LaLa]

Regarding balconies... Here's my idea:

 

All of the rooms located within the boxes are currently Ocean View rooms. They could most likely add balconies (even if they're relatively small) onto the rooms in the red boxes. Although it might not be the prettiest thing to do, it would solve the balcony problem. They already did this sort of thing to Legend and Splendour. They could possibly add balconies to the rooms in the yellow box, but the life boats might be a problem there.

 

 

P.s. I might have too much time on my hands... ;)

 

Sensation has clip on balconies, hideous looking. No word on the other upgrades or that timeframe anyway

Edited October 24, 2015 by John&LaLa

[alfaeric]

Interesting ideas for the balconies- but the only way I see that happening is if they added them to the outside of the ship. The inside cabins seem to prevent the movement in.

 

Still- doing that is quite possible. Hard, but possible.

 

One side effect possibility- actually changing the cabin. But that seems too much.... Unless there is an idea of making some more luxurious cabins- take 4 cabins out (one per corner), and that allows balcony cabins that have more space. And that's only 12 cabins total (3 decks) and 24 passengers. Would totally change the character of those cabins.

 

There are parts that will need updated- RCI's plans for scrubbers on all engines is a pretty big thing, and maybe some updates can be done to the engines to be more efficient.

 

Again, this will be quite interesting to see what happens.

[OfTheSeasCruiser]

Sensation has clip on balconies, hideous looking. No word on the other upgrades or that timeframe anyway

 

I know, but I'd rather have balcony cabins than a pretty ship. I don't find Empress to be that nice-looking anyway.

 

Interesting ideas for the balconies- but the only way I see that happening is if they added them to the outside of the ship. The inside cabins seem to prevent the movement in.

 

Still- doing that is quite possible. Hard, but possible.

 

One side effect possibility- actually changing the cabin. But that seems too much.... Unless there is an idea of making some more luxurious cabins- take 4 cabins out (one per corner), and that allows balcony cabins that have more space. And that's only 12 cabins total (3 decks) and 24 passengers. Would totally change the character of those cabins.

 

There are parts that will need updated- RCI's plans for scrubbers on all engines is a pretty big thing, and maybe some updates can be done to the engines to be more efficient.

 

Again, this will be quite interesting to see what happens.

 

Yes, my idea was for them to add the balconies to the outside. They did it to Splendour and Legend: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9GVBRWBA0Y8

Edited October 24, 2015 by OfTheSeasCruiser

[cruisexlife]

Regarding balconies... Here's my idea:

 

All of the rooms located within the boxes are currently Ocean View rooms. They could most likely add balconies (even if they're relatively small) onto the rooms in the red boxes. Although it might not be the prettiest thing to do, it would solve the balcony problem. They already did this sort of thing to Legend and Splendour. They could possibly add balconies to the rooms in the yellow box, but the life boats might be a problem there.

 

 

P.s. I might have too much time on my hands... ;)

 

I was thinking along the same lines. She would be a good ship if she had more balconies. Thanks for taking the time to illustrate it! :D

[MADflyer]

I could not clip just that article, but if you are interested the August 2005 Cruise Travel Magazine had a feature on the then refurbished Empress of the Seas that is quite detailed.

 

If you google ' Cruise Travel Magazine August 2005 Empress page 33 ' it should come up as the first alternative, but you have to scroll back to page 31.

 

The article ends with the writer stating "I hope the line keeps the vessel for many more years"

 

Standard insides were stated to be 117 sq. ft. and standard outsides 139 sq. ft..

[Saab4444]

I was thinking along the same lines. She would be a good ship if she had more balconies. Thanks for taking the time to illustrate it! :D

 

 

She would be a very ugly ship if she had more balconies in the red marked area. She looks good the way she is and has some balconies in the middle section and aft. For me this is sufficient.

 

Deckplans and cabin information can easily be found on the (english) Pullmantur webside. Standard Cabins are indeed as small as on Sovereign class.

[OfTheSeasCruiser]

She would be a very ugly ship if she had more balconies in the red marked area. She looks good the way she is and has some balconies in the middle section and aft. For me this is sufficient.

 

Deckplans and cabin information can easily be found on the (english) Pullmantur webside. Standard Cabins are indeed as small as on Sovereign class.

 

Yeah, but all those rooms with balconies are considered Junior Suites. So unless they categorize them as balconies (they're probably the size of balconies anyway) or charge balcony prices for them, you won't see me on the Empress.

[LMaxwell]

RCI needs another ship capable of doing the nassau/coco cay run like they need a hole in their heads.

 

They need a ship capable of reaching mid/south caribbean and the more "exotic" (if you want to call it that) ports than the ones that the big ships go to every week. I agree, Frankenstein some balconies on, give her a luxury makeover, and people will book.

 

I still think they have something up their sleeve regarding Cuba and possibly mimicking what Fathom is doing.

 

I strongly doubt this would be a 3/4 day party boat. too much competition there already and all are larger and newer.

[Paulette3028]

RCI needs another ship capable of doing the nassau/coco cay run like they need a hole in their heads.

 

They need a ship capable of reaching mid/south caribbean and the more "exotic" (if you want to call it that) ports than the ones that the big ships go to every week. I agree, Frankenstein some balconies on, give her a luxury makeover, and people will book.

 

I still think they have something up their sleeve regarding Cuba and possibly mimicking what Fathom is doing.

 

I strongly doubt this would be a 3/4 day party boat. too much competition there already and all are larger and newer.

 

I am sure that Royal did not take this endeavor on without having a plan already for Empress.

 

From my own POV, with all the hubbub around Cuba they could probably put a refurbished ship on a itinerary that was heavily Cuba (I believe it has more than one port) and people would flock to it. A few specialty restaurants and some ambiance....and its own type of WOW.

[LMaxwell]

I am sure that Royal did not take this endeavor on without having a plan already for Empress.

 

Oh, I feel sure they have some type of plan; but whatever it is their next plan should be to tell the plan. If they DO anticipate the ship coming back in less than 6 months time they certainly need to start advertising it to generate bookings.

 

Boutique and Unique with higher prices.

 

Short Roundy Rounds with low prices.

 

Whatever it is, it will be interesting to watch as this develops.

[John&LaLa]

An old ship visiting a country stuck in time seems appropriate.

[cruisexlife]

Maybe Empress can replace the Enchantment on the 3/4 day routes from Miami. That route is already use to no balconies and being port-intensive, so Empress could fulfill that role. RCI could spend more effort giving her the WOW factor, rather than throwing some balconies on her and trying to make her go wherever she fits.

 

Enchantment could do the cruises from Colon in the winter. Those were very popular, and had to be taken out a while back because Enchantment took over Monarch, and Grandeur over Enchantment, leaving Colon blank. summers for Enchantment could entail 4/5 night cruises out of Fort Lauderdale, or a Vision class ship in Alaska to free a Voyager or Radiance class ship. She could head over to Europe and free up a ship. Enchantment is the best out of all of the Vision class, maybe she could even come back to Baltimore for the yearround deployment, and then send Grandeur on the above-listed routes, or over to Los Angeles.

 

Empress's arrival into the fleet may not necessarily be focused more on the Empress's itineraries, but on another ship's deployment, that Empress will begin.

[OfTheSeasCruiser]

Maybe Empress can replace the Enchantment on the 3/4 day routes from Miami. That route is already use to no balconies and being port-intensive, so Empress could fulfill that role. RCI could spend more effort giving her the WOW factor, rather than throwing some balconies on her and trying to make her go wherever she fits.

 

Enchantment could do the cruises from Colon in the winter. Those were very popular, and had to be taken out a while back because Enchantment took over Monarch, and Grandeur over Enchantment, leaving Colon blank. summers for Enchantment could entail 4/5 night cruises out of Fort Lauderdale, or a Vision class ship in Alaska to free a Voyager or Radiance class ship. She could head over to Europe and free up a ship. Enchantment is the best out of all of the Vision class, maybe she could even come back to Baltimore for the yearround deployment, and then send Grandeur on the above-listed routes, or over to Los Angeles.

 

Empress's arrival into the fleet may not necessarily be focused more on the Empress's itineraries, but on another ship's deployment, that Empress will begin.

 

Replacing Enchantment with Empress is a huge step in the wrong direction. Enchantment is considered a step up from Majesty, I don't think theta switch her out, especially this fast. Port Canaveral cruisers are already unhappy with getting Majesty instead of Rhapsody, so I don't think that'll work. Empress is simply too small to give her that much of a WOW factor.

 

Personally, I think that the only way Empress will be successful is to place her on an itinerary that is unique, and isn't visited or can't be visited by other larger ships.

[cruisexlife]

Replacing Enchantment with Empress is a huge step in the wrong direction. Enchantment is considered a step up from Majesty, I don't think theta switch her out, especially this fast. Port Canaveral cruisers are already unhappy with getting Majesty instead of Rhapsody, so I don't think that'll work. Empress is simply too small to give her that much of a WOW factor.

 

Personally, I think that the only way Empress will be successful is to place her on an itinerary that is unique, and isn't visited or can't be visited by other larger ships.

 

Short cruises from Miami may seem similar to those from Canaveral, but the dynamic is actually very different. Canaveral picks up many people from South Carolina, Georgia, and North Florida by driving to the ship. Also, it brings people who had a pre-cruise in Orlando/WDW. More drive-ins entail more families. However, shorter cruises from Miami do get their drive-in cruisers, but the drive is 3 hours longer, so many just stick to Port Canaveral. Also, many tend to fly into Miami or FLL due to the large amount of flights going in and out of both. While the dynamic may seem similar, Canaveral calls for a more family-based, and activity-filled ship, which is why Enchantment was good. Miami just calls for "a" ship. That route for many years has had a ship with smaller cabins, no balconies except for suites, and been port-intensive. So switching them was a bad move. But sticking 2000 people on the Empress of the Seas, floating in the sea off to Labadee with one single pool and the little WOW factor you suggested, seems idiotic when there's a ship in Nassau with 2200 people on the cruise, but only 1000 onboard, enjoying these amenities that make sea days great.

 

I totally agree, the way to capture a market is to start a new route, and do something with little or no competition, so then you can capture a clientele and make a name for yourself. But, would you want to arrive at a 25 year old, small, add-on-balcony ship, to go sit in the middle of the ocean with very little to do other than a pool or a rock wall, no retractable pool, just to visit somewhere distant like Guatemala, or would you still go to Guatemala, just on a ship that's bigger, with a covered pool, other amenities, balconies, and larger rooms, like Enchantment? Anyone can build a huge cruise ship and place it in the Caribbean for a reasonable price. But the way to earn money in a business is to make something people are going to want to continue to return to, because that's the best option. First time cruisers will take whatever visually appeals to them, whatever looks good on paper. Let's say they did the Empress for 7 days from Colon, and came back saying that they were bored on sea days, and that their rooms were small. Without taking another cruise, which they may not do considering the complaints they have virtually effect all cruises, they won't come back, which makes RCI lose money. There's no one out there to say "well, you cruised on a 25 year old ship that left the fleet and came back, so try again on a newer ship". Their experience with cruising would have turned out negative, and they will not return.

 

You have to use the advantages of each ship on every itinerary. Low-activity Majesty and Empress work for the port-intensive Bahamas. Small-yet-fun Vision class ships work for destination-based cruises, as well as a good first-timer option. And so on. This is the reason why you see the Allure of the Seas on FLL, Majesty in Port Canaveral, and the Vision of the Seas in Tampa.

Edited October 24, 2015 by cruisexlife

[John&LaLa]

RCI needs another ship capable of doing the nassau/coco cay run like they need a hole in their heads.

 

They need a ship capable of reaching mid/south caribbean and the more "exotic" (if you want to call it that) ports than the ones that the big ships go to every week. I agree, Frankenstein some balconies on, give her a luxury makeover, and people will book.

 

I still think they have something up their sleeve regarding Cuba and possibly mimicking what Fathom is doing.

 

I strongly doubt this would be a 3/4 day party boat. too much competition there already and all are larger and newer.

 

It might bring back your $99 thread. ;)

[MADflyer]

As Majesty will get waterslides, have WIFI included and have the DreamWorks Experience, I do not see her leaving PC anytime soon.

 

One thing I found particularly interesting about the contract RCI has with DreamWorks is that they only want to be on ships where there is at least 35% sourcing from outside the US.

 

I think RCI really saw how much a certain segment still appreciated Traditional Cruising when they tried to implement Dynamic Dining and Empress will provide a perfect facility for that type of cruising.

[MADflyer]

 

Enchantment could do the cruises from Colon in the winter. .

 

Part of this whole move is to move Monarch back to Europe for Baltic and Norwegian Fjord and Artic sailings. Monarch will be leaving Colon next season now as well. They had put Pullmantur there when they pulled out RCI.

 

I was on Vision when they pulled out of Colon last year and they seemed to suggest they had experienced a number of issues during the season.

 

I think the fact that Navigator will be doing a 5/9 day pattern from Miami from 2016-17 and most likely in 2017-18 where she will do the ABC islands is also a factor.

[OfTheSeasCruiser]

Short cruises from Miami may seem similar to those from Canaveral, but the dynamic is actually very different. Canaveral picks up many people from South Carolina, Georgia, and North Florida by driving to the ship. Also, it brings people who had a pre-cruise in Orlando/WDW. More drive-ins entail more families. However, shorter cruises from Miami do get their drive-in cruisers, but the drive is 3 hours longer, so many just stick to Port Canaveral. Also, many tend to fly into Miami or FLL due to the large amount of flights going in and out of both. While the dynamic may seem similar, Canaveral calls for a more family-based, and activity-filled ship, which is why Enchantment was good. Miami just calls for "a" ship. That route for many years has had a ship with smaller cabins, no balconies except for suites, and been port-intensive. So switching them was a bad move. But sticking 2000 people on the Empress of the Seas, floating in the sea off to Labadee with one single pool and the little WOW factor you suggested, seems idiotic when there's a ship in Nassau with 2200 people on the cruise, but only 1000 onboard, enjoying these amenities that make sea days great.

 

I totally agree, the way to capture a market is to start a new route, and do something with little or no competition, so then you can capture a clientele and make a name for yourself. But, would you want to arrive at a 25 year old, small, add-on-balcony ship, to go sit in the middle of the ocean with very little to do other than a pool or a rock wall, no retractable pool, just to visit somewhere distant like Guatemala, or would you still go to Guatemala, just on a ship that's bigger, with a covered pool, other amenities, balconies, and larger rooms, like Enchantment? Anyone can build a huge cruise ship and place it in the Caribbean for a reasonable price. But the way to earn money in a business is to make something people are going to want to continue to return to, because that's the best option. First time cruisers will take whatever visually appeals to them, whatever looks good on paper. Let's say they did the Empress for 7 days from Colon, and came back saying that they were bored on sea days, and that their rooms were small. Without taking another cruise, which they may not do considering the complaints they have virtually effect all cruises, they won't come back, which makes RCI lose money. There's no one out there to say "well, you cruised on a 25 year old ship that left the fleet and came back, so try again on a newer ship". Their experience with cruising would have turned out negative, and they will not return.

 

You have to use the advantages of each ship on every itinerary. Low-activity Majesty and Empress work for the port-intensive Bahamas. Small-yet-fun Vision class ships work for destination-based cruises, as well as a good first-timer option. And so on. This is the reason why you see the Allure of the Seas on FLL, Majesty in Port Canaveral, and the Vision of the Seas in Tampa.

 

When I say new route, I don't mean one with sea days upon sea days. I mean something like Cuba, or a 10 nighter out of San Juan, or Panama Canal, you get the point. A route that first-time cruisers would not choose.

 

Look at this from a different point of view, you arrive at a "25 year old, small, add-on-balcony ship" to go on your first cruise to the Bahamas. You booked this 3 night cruise because you weren't sure whether you would actually enjoy cruising. Although you're at a port both days, you begin to think that Royal Caribbean's ships aren't so great... Wouldn't your experience have been better if you had sailed on Enchantment? Mine would have been. Those short Bahamas cruises are introductory cruises for lots of newbies, there's no denying that. First time cruisers (from the US, at least) would not book a 7 night from Colon (your example).

 

It really depends on how you look at things. I'm not saying your POV is wrong, just different than mine. I have a feeling Empress will be used for something rather unique, and therefore, make up for the small ship.

[cruisexlife]

Part of this whole move is to move Monarch back to Europe for Baltic and Norwegian Fjord and Artic sailings. Monarch will be leaving Colon next season now as well. They had put Pullmantur there when they pulled out RCI.

 

I was on Vision when they pulled out of Colon last year and they seemed to suggest they had experienced a number of issues during the season.

 

I think the fact that Navigator will be doing a 5/9 day pattern from Miami from 2016-17 and most likely in 2017-18 where she will do the ABC islands is also a factor.

 

That's something else I was considering. I said it was an option, I'm not bent on it. I just remember that Royal used to do those cruises. I really do like Navigator's future deployment schedule, I think it'll be a good fit for the company.

[MADflyer]

 

I have a feeling Empress will be used for something rather unique, and therefore, make up for the small ship.

 

I am wondering how much 'planning' there really has been around this issue.

 

Pullmantur just appointed a new Director for Latin America on the 22nd of July and he was not even given 3 months to turn the situation around?

 

This sounds like they were just looking at fleet economics and the tax savings they could take by doing this write down at this moment during this quarter where they had record revenues otherwise.

 

I am wondering if the decision was more financial than strategic?

 

I have just been watching how RCI pulled out of NOLA when Carnival was shown some favor, how NCL moved Epic to PC after RCI announced Oasis.

 

The only event I noticed just prior to this was Carnival going back to a secondary port like Mobile and just wonder if RCI might try the same.

 

Cuba will provide great opportunity but I just would hope they would approach it very strategically and not rush in.

[cruisexlife]

When I say new route, I don't mean one with sea days upon sea days. I mean something like Cuba, or a 10 nighter out of San Juan, or Panama Canal, you get the point. A route that first-time cruisers would not choose.

 

Look at this from a different point of view, you arrive at a "25 year old, small, add-on-balcony ship" to go on your first cruise to the Bahamas. You booked this 3 night cruise because you weren't sure whether you would actually enjoy cruising. Although you're at a port both days, you begin to think that Royal Caribbean's ships aren't so great... Wouldn't your experience have been better if you had sailed on Enchantment? Mine would have been. Those short Bahamas cruises are introductory cruises for lots of newbies, there's no denying that. First time cruisers (from the US, at least) would not book a 7 night from Colon (your example).

 

It really depends on how you look at things. I'm not saying your POV is wrong, just different than mine. I have a feeling Empress will be used for something rather unique, and therefore, make up for the small ship.

 

I totally understand your point of view. You said unique, therefore I said Colon, and not Cuba, because we all know the second we get approval to cruise there, you're going to see Rock walls, whale tails, and X-smokestacks in the harbors, or anchored off the coast. Cuba is going to be a big source of competition once it's allowed, because it has been shut off for over 50 years for US tourists.

 

And yes, getting on any ship, whether it be a 2 night or 7 night cruise, that "this may not be so great" atmosphere doesn't look good for a cruise line. At the same time however, the ships that do the 3 and 4 night cruises are all old, and have the added-on balconies. Ships that do the 7 night cruises are newer, with lots of amenities. I have been in the situation many times. Being in Miami on the Carnival Glory with the Norwegian Getaway and Carnival Breeze is noticeable. You see the ropes courses. You see the long promenade decks. You see the towering waterslides. Empress of the Seas sitting in Miami with the Carnival Fantasy and Norwegian Sky blends right in.

 

Yes, I surely would have had a better first cruise on Enchantment over Empress, no matter the route. And if Royal is going to lose revenue based on the age and condition of a ship, it's better that it's on the 3 night cruises, which fill up every single weekend, no matter the case, whether it be a sale or just people trying it out, rather than an 11 night cruise from San Juan (your example) ;)

[OfTheSeasCruiser]

I totally understand your point of view. You said unique, therefore I said Colon, and not Cuba, because we all know the second we get approval to cruise there, you're going to see Rock walls, whale tails, and X-smokestacks in the harbors, or anchored off the coast. Cuba is going to be a big source of competition once it's allowed, because it has been shut off for over 50 years for US tourists.

 

And yes, getting on any ship, whether it be a 2 night or 7 night cruise, that "this may not be so great" atmosphere doesn't look good for a cruise line. At the same time however, the ships that do the 3 and 4 night cruises are all old, and have the added-on balconies. Ships that do the 7 night cruises are newer, with lots of amenities. I have been in the situation many times. Being in Miami on the Carnival Glory with the Norwegian Getaway and Carnival Breeze is noticeable. You see the ropes courses. You see the long promenade decks. You see the towering waterslides. Empress of the Seas sitting in Miami with the Carnival Fantasy and Norwegian Sky blends right in.

 

Yes, I surely would have had a better first cruise on Enchantment over Empress, no matter the route. And if Royal is going to lose revenue based on the age and condition of a ship, it's better that it's on the 3 night cruises, which fill up every single weekend, no matter the case, whether it be a sale or just people trying it out, rather than an 11 night cruise from San Juan (your example) ;)

 

Good points. I guess my thinking was more in the way of "if you find a unique itinerary, Empress will be successful either way".

 

It'll be interesting to see how this all pans out. :)

[first_state101]

I'm very excited about this. We sailed on her in May 2001 from New York to Bermuda. Back then the smaller ships could go to all three ports in Bermuda. When we were in Hamilton there was rain and a parade in honor of Queen Victoria was canceled. It will be interesting what RCCL has planned for with the Empress.