Norovirus on Azura

[dorsetlad]

I have read on another forum that P&O now use anti viral gels, not anti bacterial.

 

Brian

[dgs1956]

I'm not a medial expert and nor am I a bacteria or virus expert.

 

Everyone keeps going on about Noro-virus and that anti-bac gels don't work and that you need to wash your hands thoroughly. As far as I know, this is correct.

 

However, a considerable amount of people don't wash their hands after visiting the toilet (most of us have seen them and say nothing) and most people don't wash their hands properly in terms of thoroughness and duration. I worked in the food industry for a few years and was "taught" to wash my hands properly.

 

Secondly, this particular case, like most of the others, is described as a "suspected" case so it has not been confirmed as Noro-virus. Why could it not be e-coli, campylobacter or even cryptosporidium that is causing the problem? They basically have the same results.

[Ranchi]

It's more than a sop, Insanemagnet. Successful claims against cruise companies often hinge on how well the company have followed procedures. You are now given more frequent & regular updates on outbreaks ( cause usually not specified ['our malevolent travelling companion' in the words of one captain]) & precautions that should be followed to minimise possible spread of the cause. Similarly captains now give more detail of sea states & possible ship movement to ensure that passengers are aware that there may be rolling of the ship & to make sure passengers know there may be risks moving around the ship.

[seapals2]

I'm not a medial expert and nor am I a bacteria or virus expert.

 

 

 

Everyone keeps going on about Noro-virus and that anti-bac gels don't work and that you need to wash your hands thoroughly. As far as I know, this is correct.

 

 

 

However, a considerable amount of people don't wash their hands after visiting the toilet (most of us have seen them and say nothing) and most people don't wash their hands properly in terms of thoroughness and duration. I worked in the food industry for a few years and was "taught" to wash my hands properly.

 

 

 

Secondly, this particular case, like most of the others, is described as a "suspected" case so it has not been confirmed as Noro-virus. Why could it not be e-coli, campylobacter or even cryptosporidium that is causing the problem? They basically have the same results.

 

 

This has always been my argument. If I was taken ill at home I wouldn't think straight away ..oh I've contracted norovirus I would suspect that I had a case of food poisoning and check back over the last day and question what I had eaten. If I had eaten in a restaurant and 50% of other diners were also taken ill the following day you would suspect the food not a virus. Without lab testing and that's not done on ship there is no possible way the illness can be diagnosed or confirmed.

There are still, even in this day and age a lot of people with questionable hygiene standards and if allowed to come into contact with serving spoons in the buffet will transfer bacteria easily and you know it's also these same people who would never think that the hand washing or gels is for them. Where possible we avoid the buffet and avoid touching all surfaces like hand rails and door handles. So far we have avoided coming down with the dreaded bug but guess it's only a matter of time as ships get ever more bigger.

 

 

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[Beachmad]

Stop touching ones face would help too, we re-contaminate ourselves between hand washing all day, I have read that we touch our faces,nose mouth ears etc about 3-4 times an hour!! :eek:

 

Its a wonder really that there are not more outbreaks then there are.

[Florry]

This has always been my argument. If I was taken ill at home I wouldn't think straight away ..oh I've contracted norovirus I would suspect that I had a case of food poisoning and check back over the last day and question what I had eaten. If I had eaten in a restaurant and 50% of other diners were also taken ill the following day you would suspect the food not a virus. Without lab testing and that's not done on ship there is no possible way the illness can be diagnosed or confirmed.

There are still, even in this day and age a lot of people with questionable hygiene standards and if allowed to come into contact with serving spoons in the buffet will transfer bacteria easily and you know it's also these same people who would never think that the hand washing or gels is for them. Where possible we avoid the buffet and avoid touching all surfaces like hand rails and door handles. So far we have avoided coming down with the dreaded bug but guess it's only a matter of time as ships get ever more bigger.

 

 

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Very true. I studied food microbiology at degree level many moons ago, I will always remember one of the senior lecturers saying that most cases of sickness and diarrhoea are in fact food poisoning/consumption of pathogenic organisms via poor hygiene and cross contamination. Of course some may be viral but we don't actually know the root cause without analysis. So many people don't wash their hands, they are then touching door handles, stair rails, shared utensils etc. we then touch these same objects and bite nails, eat bread rolls etc. is it any wonder? I keep hand gel in my bag and it comes out every time I eat irrespective of when I washed my hands, whilst it may not guard against a virus it guards against the other illness-causing nasties!

[dgs1956]

Very true. I studied food microbiology at degree level many moons ago, I will always remember one of the senior lecturers saying that most cases of sickness and diarrhoea are in fact food poisoning/consumption of pathogenic organisms via poor hygiene and cross contamination. Of course some may be viral but we don't actually know the root cause without analysis. So many people don't wash their hands, they are then touching door handles, stair rails, shared utensils etc. we then touch these same objects and bite nails, eat bread rolls etc. is it any wonder? I keep hand gel in my bag and it comes out every time I eat irrespective of when I washed my hands, whilst it may not guard against a virus it guards against the other illness-causing nasties!

 

This and Seapals2 posts are the point I was making. We don't know its Noro-virus and yet people are saying that the anti-bac gel is useless. This could result in people being convinced that its pointless using it when in fact the problem is actually a bacterial infection such as e-coli and it is effective against that.

[2irisheyes]

In my cynical way I have had a suspicion that some cases could be food poisoning. As has been said cases of nv are quoted as "suspected". How often are samples tested. My guess is almost never so how can cruiselines be sure. Of course if it were food poisoning there would be many claims for compensation so it is in the cruiselines' interest to declare it is nv. Is it a coincidence that we hear very little of food poisoning nowadays but we hear a great deal about nv. Keep washing those hands ..................

[Scriv]

I do fume when I see people not washing hands after using loos and not using hand gel in buffet. I think that it should be enforced before entering restaurants.

 

I fume too and always wash my hands properly and use gel, but when I recently used the disabled toilet in the Ladies on Oceana, and washed my hands in the sink inside the cubicle, it must have looked to the queue outside that I had not washed my hands. It certainly looked so to my daughter, who told me off! I was horrified to think that some people may have thought the same of me :(

Edited November 9, 2015 by Scriv

[Jay23]

I am sure the Gel used on the ships is Anti Viral.. I always carry some. That does not negate the fact that washing hands with soap is more effective, but the Anti VIRAL Gel is better than nothing.

[insanemagnet]

I am sure the Gel used on the ships is Anti Viral.. I always carry some. That does not negate the fact that washing hands with soap is more effective, but the Anti VIRAL Gel is better than nothing.

And your evidence that it is ant-viral?

[AnnieC]

And your evidence that it is ant-viral?

 

May be a post on another forum, where a poster said that P&O uses Purell, adding the firm statement that Purell is antiviral. Purell does make make an antiviral formula, but last time I looked this was not in use on Arcadia.

 

Thus far, the original poster has not responded to my request for clarification.

[insanemagnet]

May be a post on another forum, where a poster said that P&O uses Purell, adding the firm statement that Purell is antiviral. Purell does make make an antiviral formula, but last time I looked this was not in use on Arcadia.

 

Purell is an alcohol based hand sanitiser. The gel used on P&O is an alcohol based hand sanitiser.

 

Alcohol based hand sanitisers are effective against enveloped viruses, but are not effective against a non-enveloped virus.

 

Norovirus is a non-enveloped virus.

 

I have seen no evidence that the alcohol based gel that P&O use has anything added to make it effective against non-enveloped viruses such as Norovirus.

 

What is effective against Norovirus is good handwashing. What people should do is wash their hands properly before eating, and not just rely on an ineffective gel.

Edited November 9, 2015 by insanemagnet

[dgs1956]

Purell is an alcohol based hand sanitiser. The gel used on P&O is an alcohol based hand sanitiser.

 

Alcohol based hand sanitisers are effective against enveloped viruses, but are not effective against a non-enveloped virus.

 

Norovirus is a non-enveloped virus.

 

I have seen no evidence that the alcohol based gel that P&O use has anything added to make it effective against non-enveloped viruses such as Norovirus.

 

What is effective against Norovirus is good handwashing. What people should do is wash their hands properly before eating, and not just rely on an ineffective gel.

 

The point is that you don't know if the problem is Norovirus or something else. I agree that the anti-bac gel is no use for Norovirus but there is no way that anyone can tell if that is the problem unless a test is carried out.

[AnnieC]

Purell is an alcohol based hand sanitiser. The gel used on P&O is an alcohol based hand sanitiser.

 

Alcohol based hand sanitisers are effective against enveloped viruses, but are not effective against a non-enveloped virus.

 

Norovirus is a non-enveloped virus.

 

I have seen no evidence that the alcohol based gel that P&O use has anything added to make it effective against non-enveloped viruses such as Norovirus.

 

What is effective against Norovirus is good handwashing. What people should do is wash their hands properly before eating, and not just rely on an ineffective gel.

 

Many thanks for the clarification.

[insanemagnet]

The point is that you don't know if the problem is Norovirus or something else. I agree that the anti-bac gel is no use for Norovirus but there is no way that anyone can tell if that is the problem unless a test is carried out.

 

So you can use the gel which will protect you against bacterial infection on your hands, but not norovirus.

 

or

 

You could wash your hands and protect yourself against both bacterial infection and norovirus.

 

Hmm.

[dgs1956]

So you can use the gel which will protect you against bacterial infection on your hands, but not norovirus.

 

or

 

You could wash your hands and protect yourself against both bacterial infection and norovirus.

 

Hmm.

 

The fact is that you are suggesting to everyone that an outbreak is always Norovirus and that is wrong. Surely the sensible thing is to wash your hands properly and use the gel on entry to the restaurants.

[Jay23]

Because it is what is written on the bottle. I keep a small bottle in my handbag, it is sold as anti viral and I have not reason to doubt it.

 

We have sailed with P & O for 15 years and as soon as Purell was available it was in use on all P & O's ships.

Obviously I am not a chemist so I can't be sure as to how effective it is but it is the best we have.

 

Yes, soap and water is the best protection.

PS What is a non-enveloped virus?

Edited November 10, 2015 by Jay23

[AnnieC]

Because it is what is written on the bottle. I keep a small bottle in my handbag, it is sold as anti viral and I have not reason to doubt it.

 

We have sailed with P & O for 15 years and as soon as Purell was available it was in use on all P & O's ships.

Obviously I am not a chemist so I can't be sure as to how effective it is but it is the best we have.

 

Yes, soap and water is the best protection.

PS What is a non-enveloped virus?

 

To reiterate, Purell makes more than one product; yours is obviously the antiviral one, the one in use on P&O is not (or was not in the recent past).

[AnnieC]

The fact is that you are suggesting to everyone that an outbreak is always Norovirus and that is wrong. Surely the sensible thing is to wash your hands properly and use the gel on entry to the restaurants.

 

Would you be kind enough to point me to the post where insanemagnet suggests that every outbreak is Norovirus:confused: However, nothing offers protection again a rogue prawn.

 

Is anyone suggesting doing anything other than washing hands properly and using gel?

[Jay23]

To reiterate, Purell makes more than one product; yours is obviously the antiviral one, the one in use on P&O is not (or was not in the recent past).

 

I bow to your superior knowledge.

[CCFC]

There was a debate about this on the Princess boards, below is a summary:

 

"Cruise lines use Purell's VF-481, not the standard over-the-counter product which relies on alcohol alone. This enhanced hand sanitizer has added ingredients specifically designed to be effective against Noro and other similar viruses. Hand washing is the gold standard, but VF-481 is still very effective."

 

•  Significant differences in hand sanitizer performance. Not all hand sanitizers created equal.

•  Benchmark PURELL was not effective against norovirus •  PURELL VF447 was effective at reducing Norwalk Virus on human hands but appeared not effective against SMV

•  PURELL VF481 was very effective for both NV and SMV

•  The regimen of MICRELL Antibacterial Foam Handwash followed by PURELL VF481 was significantly better than MICRELL or VF481 alone for removing NV on human hands. The combined regimens could achieve approximately >6 log reduction from virus-contaminated hands

•  Since we tested norovirus RNA titers in all studies, the actual efficacies of the hand sanitizers were probably underestimated

 

So in summary the Purell on the ships is anti-viral and effective against Norovirus.

 

Original thread is HERE

[cruisebore]

Received notification this morning: Azura Caribbean

"Please be advised that during the last cruise there was an increase in the number of cases of gastrointestinal illness on board amongst guests. We believe this was caused by Norovirus which is the second most frequently reported illness after the common cold.

 

Over the last week the level of illness on board has reduced to a low level."

 

It goes on to say don't travel if you have had an episode of vomiting or

diarrhoea within the last 24 hours DO NOT TRAVEL

 

I wonder how many will take heed or decide not to and dose up on Loperamide and them infect a good quantity of those unlucky to be flying with them.

[Jay23]

 

 

So in summary the Purell on the ships is anti-viral and effective against Norovirus.

 

Original thread is HERE

 

Thank you for that CCFC. Gives me more confidence. I was under the impression that it was anti viral gel that was used on ships.

However, unfortunately there is no guarantee that all passengers will heed the requests either to wash their hands frequently or use the gel provided.

[dgs1956]

There was a debate about this on the Princess boards, below is a summary:

 

"Cruise lines use Purell's VF-481, not the standard over-the-counter product which relies on alcohol alone. This enhanced hand sanitizer has added ingredients specifically designed to be effective against Noro and other similar viruses. Hand washing is the gold standard, but VF-481 is still very effective."

 

 

 

So in summary the Purell on the ships is anti-viral and effective against Norovirus.

 

Original thread is HERE

 

Very interesting CCFC. Thanks for that.