Is NCL their own worst enemy?

[sparks1093]

Sparks1093

 

Just curious does your CCL cruise include any drinks/specialty dinners? I budget 125.00 a day for drinks, and even as we get older and don't drink nearly as much, we do come pretty close. And with the cost of beverage packages for cruiselines that would make the 800.00 difference a wash!

 

Nope, but we don't use those things anyway. I am not going to pay for a bunch of "free" stuff that I wouldn't have purchased. Yes, NCL does still offer a great product and they do offer value to many but I fear that we are straying from the topic of the thread which is that NCL has repeatedly shot themselves in the foot with their various roll outs. They will have to get a handle on that and some other things if they want to go to the next level.

[EyeSeaEwe]

LOL dude you are on a boat - leave the WiFi at home.

 

You don't need to be connected on a boat or on a plane 24/7.

 

 

I love NCL freestyle cruising, as well as the UBP.

 

 

Actually you are on a ship! :D

[jakesnana]

For me, and I'm sure there are more like me, NCL is not doing me any favors :( My DH can't drink, therefore I drink very little, so the UBP is useless to us. While we enjoy the SDP, I also REALLY enjoy freestyle, so if I have to make my dinner reservations 3 months prior to sailing to get a time slot that takes away the freestyle element for me. Taking these things into consideration, NCL is batting 0 for us.

 

When you throw in the fact that we like to have room service late at night or after a long day in port and NOW have to pay $7.95 for the pleasure, that's just another strike for NCL. We haven't stopped cruising, just branched out to other cruiselines that better fit our needs.

[sjbdtz]

LOL dude you are on a boat - leave the WiFi at home.

 

You don't need to be connected on a boat or on a plane 24/7.

 

 

I love NCL freestyle cruising, as well as the UBP.

 

It's a ship.

 

And what do you know about my requirements for connectivity?

 

I always buy the unlimited internet, because that's the extent of connectivity I require.

 

Your mileage may vary.

 

 

Stephen

 

 

.

[Trumpster]

Would like to do Escape but with so many really negative reviews and now seeing all the changes NCL just kind of rolled out over the last year, we are quite skeptical.

 

Our previous NCL cruises (not counting the Norway) were good but not great. The Norway was great because the ship was really cool for that era. The Pearl was a very good cruise.

 

Other lines have also been only good and not great so I don't think we will not sail NCL again but the inconsistency of the company and the direction it seems to be going is disconcerting. Also the fares have moved up in general across the board for NCL into other lines range, so that may impact our thinking.

 

Probably will wait to see if it straightens out.

 

Have the Pearl booked as well as a Carnival Cruise for next year so the Escape might have to wait anyhow.

[perkydebrajean]

For me, and I'm sure there are more like me, NCL is not doing me any favors :( My DH can't drink, therefore I drink very little, so the UBP is useless to us. While we enjoy the SDP, I also REALLY enjoy freestyle, so if I have to make my dinner reservations 3 months prior to sailing to get a time slot that takes away the freestyle element for me. Taking these things into consideration, NCL is batting 0 for us.

 

When you throw in the fact that we like to have room service late at night or after a long day in port and NOW have to pay $7.95 for the pleasure, that's just another strike for NCL. We haven't stopped cruising, just branched out to other cruiselines that better fit our needs.

 

You sound just like us. Husband doesn't drink and I'm boozing it up if I drink more than one a day. And we enjoyed eating at specialties when we were hungry, not at a certain time that was booked days or months in advance. We enjoy planning our dining around our day, not the other way around.

 

Our last cruise was booked before they started throwing in the promos. In order to get those "freebies", we would have had to cancel and rebooked at a rate that was almost $1000 more per person. I didn't consider them to be freebies at that rate.

 

I'm one point from platinum but we're currently looking at other cruise lines.

[Cruzn Bills Fan]

I've been a fly on the wall up to this point with this thread. I love NCL at least I used to. What drew me/us to NCL was FREE STYLE and this is no longer free style. My wife says let's make dinner reservations when we get on the ship next week. I warned her that there may not be any because nearly everyone is getting the UDP or whatever it's called now. I have next week's cruise and then a cruise on Gem out of San Juan in November. After that it's time to take a break from NCL. Flame away...

[Trumpster]

I've been a fly on the wall up to this point with this thread. I love NCL at least I used to. What drew me/us to NCL was FREE STYLE and this is no longer free style. My wife says let's make dinner reservations when we get on the ship next week. I warned her that there may not be any because nearly everyone is getting the UDP or whatever it's called now. I have next week's cruise and then a cruise on Gem out of San Juan in November. After that it's time to take a break from NCL. Flame away...

 

Have they simply gotten themselves in a pickle because of too many " freebies"

 

Will bookings dive if they just simply got rid of them all?

 

To us the cruise fare is the important # and if NCL's fares continue to increase as they seem to be doing, without corresponding value, will people be willing to book? Or re-book considering all the negative reviews, especially of Escape?

[Loonbeam]

Unfortunately this relies on the misconception that NCL sets specific prices for rooms. They don't.

 

All lines use a yield management system that takes into account literally thousands of factors in deciding room prices and can change them minute by minute. NCL CAN set a floor for a given class, but usually won't as it limits flexibility. If a cat is selling well, price will go up. If one is not selling well, price will drop. If a higher cat is selling poorly and the system thinks a lower cat can garner better pricing, then it will upgrade people. It's entirely possible for two cabins on the same sailing, next to each other, to have wildly different prices (as en example, the same cabin we paid $540pp for on our next trip is currently listing at $1,260 and selling, because other lines cancelled similar cruises.)

 

In summary, if NCL puts out a cabin at $2,000 pp (regardless of promotions), and no one books it, the price will start to drop down. So what controls the pricing in effect is the buyer.

 

Where the promotions (fairly or not) affect pricing is perceived value, wherein people are inclined to pay higher fares because they think they are getting more (airlines are masters of this with economy plus seating - hey, you can pay more to get the same space you got 10 years ago!). So if a cabin is listed for $800 but you get two promos 'worth' $500 the purchaser thinks they are only paying $300 in effect. Otherwise they might wait for the price to drop.

 

However, and this is the key difference, if the perceived value of the packages drops due to delivery or limitations or competition, that net bump will not happen. The way the system is set up, they cannot just say, add $300 to the price of each cabin to cover the perks.

 

BTW, if you want to do a price comparison over time, the best cat to use is the most common category on the ship or line, usually standard balcony. Classes like suite and haven are limited in capacity meaning a minor change in demand can cause huge price variances and don't make good examples.

 

 

You think these perks come at no additional cost? A 7 day Alaska cruise in a forward penthouse is several thousand dollars more than our 9 day was in May 2015. I think I can buy a couple drink packages and dining packages for less than $3000.

 

NCL used to give us a choice if we wanted beverage and or dining packages. Now they bake them into the price and we no longer have that choice.

 

I would ask you to take off your rose colored glasses but if you choose to be blinded from reality it is probably just as well since there is no control over this unless everyone stopped cruising NCL. That is not going to happen and their awful marketing scam is not a deal breaker for us at this time. Once it is, we will take our business elsewhere.

[jetter2]

It's a ship.

 

And what do you know about my requirements for connectivity?

 

I always buy the unlimited internet, because that's the extent of connectivity I require.

 

Your mileage may vary.

 

 

Stephen

 

 

.

 

I have no idea how people got by 10 years ago.

 

 

 

I live in ATL, so I love NCL because they sail out of ports I can drive to(except Miami and FLL).

 

We are in our late 20s and heavy drinkers on vacations. This is one of the main deciding factors of why I went to AIs so much in the past. I like the idea of waking up somewhere new everyday, and having a casino to play in every night.

 

Sailing out of Florida, combined with a drink package are huge selling points for me. The problem with Carnival is they will outright cut you off after 15 drinks in 24hrs. Celebrity offers it sometimes but I haven't found a itinerary from them that I like.

 

For me I am looking for value. I will start cruising more often in about another year when she gets out of grad school - as for now we are limited to Xmas and off-semester times to cruise.

 

That being said, Xmas cruises are already pricey - we stayed in an Oceanview last month, we are getting an aft Balcony next year.

 

So if you get a good deal, on a newer megaship(which neither of us have ever been on), with free booze - deal me in!

 

I wouldn't go on a cruise unless I could get UBP. I cruise with my company every spring and they give us unlimited drink cards on CCL(some special group thing). I am on vacation, if I have to worry about any alcohol or food bills - I'll just go to a AI :)

[Blizzard54]

I really wish NCL would eliminate the SDP or UDP as a freebee. It's totally changed the way you cruise, and taken away the Freestyle aspect of NCL. Part of the beauty of the set up was that you could decide what you feel like eating that day and what time you feel like eating and do that. If you slept until 11:00 on a sea day and had lunch at 2:00, your 6:00 dinner reservation is pretty much a waste.

 

Judging by how often there are lots of empty tables in the restaurants, I wonder how many groups with the SDP/UDP book several options for each night and refine it as the week goes along, locking up tables until the 24 hour cancellation period. I know one group who did this and when I asked why they would do that, they said "we know how to play the game". I clearly don't know how to play the game, but perhaps many others do.

 

When you board in the first group, and go to the Concierge to book a restaurant for that night and are told you that you can only have 5:30 or 9:00 for the entire week's meals, I think there's a problem with that, especially when same Concierge, same ship two months earlier, we either walked into wherever we wanted to go, or called them up a couple of hours ahead.

 

New people who don't come here and don't know to book the day that the reservations are available online are annoyed onboard when their package is all but useless, but if you are a seasoned NCL cruiser who hasn't cruised in the last year, you also don't know that the situation has totally changed.

 

We have not been on NCL for a few years but The last couple time the situation we ran into was that they would not allow us to make reservations in the MDR for 2 people after 6 or before 8:30. A party of 4 could do it but not 2. It sounds like they have moved the problem to the specialty restaurants now. Dining when you want does have it's complications.

[Moby0215]

We have not been on NCL for a few years but The last couple time the situation we ran into was that they would not allow us to make reservations in the MDR for 2 people after 6 or before 8:30. A party of 4 could do it but not 2. It sounds like they have moved the problem to the specialty restaurants now. Dining when you want does have it's complications.

 

 

I'm confused. After 6 or before 8:30?

 

 

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[sfaaa]

6pm - 8:30pm is peak dinner hour. When there are over 2k passengers on the ship with only a limited number of tables available at any given time, first come, first served is a fair and logical solution.

[Blizzard54]

I'm confused. After 6 or before 8:30?

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

sorry should have been before 6 or after 8:30

[anonmom]

Have they simply gotten themselves in a pickle because of too many " freebies"

 

Will bookings dive if they just simply got rid of them all?

 

To us the cruise fare is the important # and if NCL's fares continue to increase as they seem to be doing, without corresponding value, will people be willing to book? Or re-book considering all the negative reviews, especially of Escape?

 

I think the first question to answer is, "Has NCL gotten themselves into a pickle, period?" Various people on this board seem to think so, but their stock price and financials look fine.

 

So, regardless of whether any individual póster on this board, or even a majority of posters on this board, choose to sail on Norwegian in the future, NCL really doesn't seem to be in trouble at this time.

 

(To be clear, this is not me saying NCL is the best cruiseline, or the best investment, or the best vacation value. This is not me saying that FDR is great or awful or brilliant or stupid. This is just me saying that NCL is a company that isn't in obvious trouble, and probably doesn't need the help of this board to determine if they are "their own worst enemy.")

[rose102798]

NCL's worst enemy are the people with completely unreasonable expectations who then get home and complain incessantly about their "bad cruise."

 

There should be a sticky topic on all cruise line boards that says, "Please remember that your cruise line does not control the weather, the tides, the political situation in any ports or your travel agent's ability to get you a cabin worth sixteen times the one you actually paid for as a free upgrade. The cruise line also does not control the whining of other passengers or the inability of people to follow well-documented procedures for booking, payment or complaint resolution."

 

I do not understand the constant whining about the WiFi. I've used WiFi on every cruise I've taken (11 so far, all NCL) and it has always been acceptable for my needs. It's not like my cable Internet at home, but I don't expect it to be. I don't try to watch YouTube, I'm not trying to Skype with family back home, I'm just checking email and texts. We had one Transatlantic where the WiFi was down for a couple of days, so I didn't use the Internet. Problem solved.

 

We couldn't get reservations at the times we prefer in advance for our next cruise because we're a party of three (Mom's going along) instead of two, so we will see what we can do onboard. If we have to wait, we will wait. We were told on our last cruise that not all seats are available for reservations, so we will try walk-up. If it's not available, we can wait or go to another restaurant. It is not going to ruin my vacation.

 

People do not come to Cruise Critic to applaud great service. They come here to complain.

 

If I were a first-time cruiser, many of the reports here would give me pause, until I realized that the most negative comments were from three or four people, and they were the same comments over and over.

 

 

Amen!

[scottann92]

Never did I or that I can see, did any one say it was hurting NCL in the stock market. It was a simple observation and a question if the promos were doing more harm than good. Just wanted to get opinions on this. Thanks for all your input. I like how all of us see the the question in different ways and different perspectives.

[Moby0215]

Never did I or that I can see, did any one say it was hurting NCL in the stock market. It was a simple observation and a question if the promos were doing more harm than good. Just wanted to get opinions on this. Thanks for all your input. I like how all of us see the the question in different ways and different perspectives.

 

 

My opinion would be they are doing very well since they continue to offer the promos.

 

 

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[SuiteCruiser]

My opinion would be they are doing very well since they continue to offer the promos.

 

 

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Right, and as is the way these days, what's good for the cruiseline is not good for the cruiser, at least IMO.

 

I don't understand people who know that they'll want to eat Italian on Day 2 at 7:30. I don't live my life that way. Every night is "what do we feel like? and then my husband, who is the chef, prepares it. When he's away, the kids and I do the same thing and I make it, or order it (more likely).

 

That said, I know people who have chicken on Tuesdays, pasta Wed, beef Thursday, fish Friday and so on, and that would drive me crazy.

 

I'm much more spontaneous, and that drew me to NCL as I was free to do what I wanted, eat what and where I wanted and enjoy myself. Now everything is either planned to the nth degree, or you eat in the MDR or O'Sheehan's.

[fshagan]

We have never, ever, ever waited more than five minutes for a table for two in the MDR on any of our NCL cruises. The reason they don't take reservations for a table for two is you don't need it. Walk up, and they seat you.

 

The internal inconsistency I see here on CC is that people say with the freebie UDP the specialty restaurants require reservations because everyone is crowding into them, but then they are worried that they can't make a reservation for two in the MDR? If everyone is in a specialty, the MDR would be empty.

[Moby0215]

Right, and as is the way these days, what's good for the cruiseline is not good for the cruiser, at least IMO.

 

 

 

I don't understand people who know that they'll want to eat Italian on Day 2 at 7:30. I don't live my life that way. Every night is "what do we feel like? and then my husband, who is the chef, prepares it. When he's away, the kids and I do the same thing and I make it, or order it (more likely).

 

 

 

That said, I know people who have chicken on Tuesdays, pasta Wed, beef Thursday, fish Friday and so on, and that would drive me crazy.

 

 

 

I'm much more spontaneous, and that drew me to NCL as I was free to do what I wanted, eat what and where I wanted and enjoy myself. Now everything is either planned to the nth degree, or you eat in the MDR or O'Sheehan's.

 

 

I certainly am not a planner either. I very rarely make reservations before my cruise, but I also have never had an issue getting a reservation once onboard.

 

 

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[SuiteCruiser]

I certainly am not a planner either. I very rarely make reservations before my cruise, but I also have never had an issue getting a reservation once onboard.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

I have, which made me gun shy. As I said in my earlier post, we (my 4 staff and I) arrived onboard and would be doing different things before dinner and decided to make dinner plans for that night, and went to the Concierge who looked it up and could only get us 5:30 or 6:00 or 8:30 or 9:00 all week for various restaurants. Before that I never made a reservation before I boarded and only occasionally called the Concierge to ask if 7:30 would be an issue at Le Bistro that night.

 

I miss those days.

 

If they went back to an SDP plan that you could buy and then just have people paying for their night out, it would be back the way it was. Now everyone and their dog is in the specialties, often because they feel they have to, as part of their plan, and as seen earlier in the thread, many are making multiple bookings per night.

 

I can't tell you how often I've heard and seen on here that people prefer the SDP promo so they don't feel they have to be in a specialty every night. Makes zero sense to me, but it does to many.

[ExpatBride]

So true !!!

You go on vacation to get away from all the stress and committment you have back home.

Same goes for "being availalbe 24/7"

 

That doesn't work if you're a business owner.

[papcx]

Personally, I think the cruise line industry is its own worst enemy.

 

In an attempt to get new cruisers all lines are, periodically, doing deals for drinks or OBC etc. As a result, us seasoned cruisers expect them all the time now, even if that means moving lines.

 

Personally, when on holiday (I'm from the UK and don't know what a vacation is) we are heavy drinkers. Out of the last 4 cruises I've booked, only 1 DOESN'T have a drinks package, and that's only because it's a short cruise on a brand new ship. I know I've paid more for those cruises, but less that base fare plus drinks package, so IMO I've got a bargain.

 

We're fortunate enough to be able to book a long way out so from now on, we'll choose the cruise we want and then wait for the drinks package promotion. If that means changing cruise line, we will.

 

In the long term, this will mean we don't climb the loyalty schemes very fast, but most lines are reducing benefits now so that means less and less as time goes on.

[sparks1093]

anonmom said "I think the first question to answer is, "Has NCL gotten themselves into a pickle, period?" Various people on this board seem to think so, but their stock price and financials look fine.

 

So, regardless of whether any individual póster on this board, or even a majority of posters on this board, choose to sail on Norwegian in the future, NCL really doesn't seem to be in trouble at this time.

 

(To be clear, this is not me saying NCL is the best cruiseline, or the best investment, or the best vacation value. This is not me saying that FDR is great or awful or brilliant or stupid. This is just me saying that NCL is a company that isn't in obvious trouble, and probably doesn't need the help of this board to determine if they are "their own worst enemy.")"

 

Yes, it appears that they are doing well short term but they are writing a lot of IOU's both to the customers (we are going to charge a little more now with a promise for better service later) and to the banks (borrowing millions to put all of the ships through drydock before 2017 for major make overs). That coupled with the huge debt load taken on during the merger gives one pause for concern. If Del Rio pulls it off, great, NCL is now a premium line instead of a mainstream line. But if he doesn't pull it off then it very well could mean the end of NCL. Even if I never end up sailing with NCL again I would hate to see the end of the company. It will be a couple of years before we know which way it's going to go.