Halal meat onboard

[Mr Piano]

There is an interesting discussion on an Azura group on Facebook. Apparently one cruiser would not eat any of the meat as he was informed, when asking the Sindu restaurant manager if the meat was Halal? he informed him it was, as was all the meat onboard (pork products excepted). This was confirmed when he wrote to customer services.

 

Many in the discussion on Facebook objected on the grounds they where Christian. In my opinion it is not a matter of religion but one of choice. We are not informed. Many would object on animal welfare grounds, rightly or wrongly. For example I would not eat foie gras or veal.

 

We should be informed on the menu. not to do so is deceitful. It should be my choice

[diane.in.ny]

I don't understand your problem. Are you saying you wouldn't eat the meat because it was halal? Is it because of the way they are slaughtered?

[tartanexile81]

It has been rumbling round the P&O Facebook pages for quite a while. Apparently a lot of P&O meat is Halal. My objection to this is at home we only buy meat which conforms to UK standards, from animals reared in the UK and as far as I'm aware slaughtered in a way to minimise any possibility of suffering. Whilst I accept that I cannot expect P&O to have the same standards, surely I can expect them to ensure that the animals I eat have been slaughtered humanely.

[Mr Piano]

I don't understand your problem. Are you saying you wouldn't eat the meat because it was halal? Is it because of the way they are slaughtered?

 

I did not say I wouldn't eat Halal, I have eaten in a halal restaurant with a Muslim colleague, but I had the choice. My point is about choice, not to inform amounts to misinformation. On my next cruise I will eat halal because I don't have the choice. Yes it is about the way it is killed, in answer to the second part of your question. If indeed it's true that the animals are not stunned before their throats are cut. I hope I am misinformed and it's not the case. I expect it's not just cruise ships that don't inform, as the law doesn't require it. But I have the feeling a lot of people would like to have an informed choice

[Thejuggler]

I've seen both methods used in a slaughterhouse and there really is no need to be concerned about Halal methods.

 

Its one small extra process which takes a micro second and the animals did not suffer differently, they were both definately dead a few seconds after entering the abbatoir. If you are concerned about how animals die vegetarianism is the best option.

 

When this discussion crops up no one ever has concerns about kosher methods of killing animals.

[tartanexile81]

My comment was made SOLELY on an animal welfare basis TheJuggler. I think your last sentence suggested some ulterior motive but I can assure you this is NOT the case. My OH and I are supporters of a number of animal welfare charities and I eat very little meat in my diet but I cannot be 100% vegetarian so I take great care with what I buy and choose to eat

[Mysticalmother]

It has been rumbling round the P&O Facebook pages for quite a while. Apparently a lot of P&O meat is Halal. My objection to this is at home we only buy meat which conforms to UK standards, from animals reared in the UK and as far as I'm aware slaughtered in a way to minimise any possibility of suffering. Whilst I accept that I cannot expect P&O to have the same standards, surely I can expect them to ensure that the animals I eat have been slaughtered humanely.

 

I agree with you TE. And I wish to be able to make an informed choice when I eat meat. If P &O are not making it clear on their menus that their meat is Halal, then they need to start doing so. A large majority of their passengers are still people who do not require halal meat for religious reasons.

 

I wonder what would happen if we all started making a dietary request for non halal meat?

[tartanexile81]

Well I'll report back to you on that one Mysticalmother as I've just asked on the official P&O page if I can do that for our cruise in two weeks

[the english lady]

More to the point is why any of it has to be Halal. Or why mostly non halal, with the halal as an option.

I would guess most cruisers on a ship would prefer non halal, so why is that not the way it is set up.

I never knew this. Sits slightly uneasy with me anyway.

As an aside I eat the fish nearly all the time on a cruise...shellfish do not like me, so I don't eat them.

[pete14]

According to the help section on the P&O website, a limited range of Halal food is available on request (as is kosher). Maybe Sindhu is halal although I somehow doubt that it is, but frankly, I don't believe that the majority of meat served on board is halal. There is absolutely no reason why it should be.

[jeanlyon]

I was just wondering that myself. Why would most of the meat be halal? Most of the staff are hindu and not muslim?

 

As for veal, we buy veal from a farm in Cornwall. It is raised just like lambs and piglets, out in the fresh air and is very good indeed. Did you know most male calves are either killed at birth or sent off to Europe in lorries. This farm decided to farm veal calves in just the same way as other animals. Not sure I have ever seen veal served on a ship, so I imagine they think people won't eat it?

 

Having said that, I think I did see veal on the menu in Sorrento when we still had Sorrento :-(

Edited January 26, 2016 by jeanlyon

[tartanexile81]

Well I'll report back to you on that one Mysticalmother as I've just asked on the official P&O page if I can do that for our cruise in two weeks

 

I phoned P&O this a.m. as I thought it was the quickest way to get an answer and apparently if you ask the waiter they will tell you which meat on the menu is not halal, so it seems that much of it is. I'm very, very surprised.

[Mr Piano]

I phoned P&O this a.m. as I thought it was the quickest way to get an answer and apparently if you ask the waiter they will tell you which meat on the menu is not halal, so it seems that much of it is. I'm very, very surprised.

 

I Think you find its the pork thanks not Halal :) the point is, the guy on Facebook send a letter to P&O director, he copied and pasted the reply from his representative which confirmed all meat other than pork of course is halal

 

I have looked a little more into this and many big chains also serve halal, such as KFC, subway, pizza express and many more. There is no difference in the meats. I have also learned since starting the thread that over 80 percent of halal meat in the UK is stunned before slaughter. I wonder if my reservations about the meat are necessary. But I do stand by my view we should be informed. I have no problem with a cleric saying a prayer for the meat, thank you very much for the blessing:)

I can see how it would be very difficult if not impossible for the kitchen staff

To distinguish and separate halal or non halal. It is not a betrayal of the Christian religion to eat halal. It is against the Muslim faith to eat normal meat. So I can See the point in all these large companies serving just halal. But we have a right to know. How anyone can see a problem with that I don't Know.

[Tura Lura]

would you care if it was all kosher?

 

FYI - both are quite similar and the point is to incur as little suffering as possible for the animal.

Edited January 26, 2016 by Tura Lura

[Mysticalmother]

would you care if it was all kosher?

 

FYI - both are quite similar and the point is to incur as little suffering as possible for the animal.

 

Yes I would. What I, and I think others want is to KNOW whether the meat is Halal, Kosher or whatever - we then have the choice as to whether or not to eat it.

[Tura Lura]

Yes I would. What I, and I think others want is to KNOW whether the meat is Halal, Kosher or whatever - we then have the choice as to whether or not to eat it.

 

that seems so odd to me. I mean, if you were kosher or halal it would matter if it wasn't, but not sure why it matters otherwise. There's nothing wrong with it. In fact it generally would be higher quality since there can't be certain by -products etc.

 

And the method of slaughter is considered more humane by some.

[Mr Piano]

would you care if it was all kosher?

 

FYI - both are quite similar and the point is to incur as little suffering as possible for the animal.

 

From a purely non religious standpoint, and rather animal welfare, I see little difference between the two, in fact my understanding is a Muslim is permitted to eat Kosher when halal is not available. However, again it is my understanding a person of the Sikh faith is not permitted to eat halal. So what about their right to be informed?

 

You asked a question so let me ask you one. What is the problem with informing people what they are being served?

 

I think I can guess why P&O don't wish to openly inform, if it is indeed true that all non pork meats are halal or kosher for that matter are served on board

[insanemagnet]

One of the issues is what is Halal. Both stunned and unstunned can be called Halal, but many of my Muslim friends would not consider unstunned Halal and would not eat it.

 

So asking "is it Halal" is not very precise.

 

Also if you try and avoid Halal meat it is quite hard. For example, I understand that virtually all lamb exported from New Zealand is stunned Halal, because it makes the supply chains easier.

 

I suspect that due to the complex supply chains virtually all meat (with the obvious exception of pork) in prepared foods and catering is stunned Halal.

 

It is unlikely to be unstunned Halal for the simple reason that such meat sells for a higher price.

[Tura Lura]

From a purely non religious standpoint, and rather animal welfare, I see little difference between the two, in fact my understanding is a Muslim is permitted to eat Kosher when halal is not available. However, again it is my understanding a person of the Sikh faith is not permitted to eat halal. So what about their right to be informed?

 

You asked a question so let me ask you one. What is the problem with informing people what they are being served?

 

I think I can guess why P&O don't wish to openly inform, if it is indeed true that all non pork meats are halal or kosher for that matter are served on board

 

it just would never cross my mind that it would matter. I would be much more interested in knowing if the animal was raised humanely - is it grass fed, farm raised, factory farmed. I mean all the meat on the ship i assume was factory farmed regardless of the last 2 mins of it's life/death.

 

I live in a neighborhood in Brooklyn where it's always labeled but that's because it's mostly orthodox Jewish or Bangladeshi Muslim, so both groups want to be sure that the meat is prepared to their beliefs. To me as a non practicing jew, i could care less. I buy kosher, halal, or neither, depending on the quality or price of what i'm looking at. So just don't see what the objection would be. It would be if the milk was non GMO and not labeling it as such, and someone saying, but what if i WANT GMO milk.

[Mr Piano]

it just would never cross my mind that it would matter. I would be much more interested in knowing if the animal was raised humanely - is it grass fed, farm raised, factory farmed. I mean all the meat on the ship i assume was factory farmed regardless of the last 2 mins of it's life/death.

 

I live in a neighborhood in Brooklyn where it's always labeled but that's because it's mostly orthodox Jewish or Bangladeshi Muslim, so both groups want to be sure that the meat is prepared to their beliefs. To me as a non practicing jew, i could care less. I buy kosher, halal, or neither, depending on the quality or price of what i'm looking at. So just don't see what the objection would be. It would be if the milk was non GMO and not labeling it as such, and someone saying, but what if i WANT GMO milk.

 

Would it not cross your mind that it mattered to Sikhs?

[Tura Lura]

Would it not cross your mind that it mattered to Sikhs?

 

Do you know any Sikhs? All that I've met are vegetarian. Based on the rules below, i would assume that they would eat veggie on the ship. I would also think they would ask, since it's important to them. Just like someone who is actually halal or kosher would always ask.

 

In Sikhism, only lacto-vegetarian food is served in the Gurdwara (Sikh temple) but Sikhs are not bound to be meat-free. The general consensus is that people who are practicing the Sikh faith should not consume meat, egg or fish as it is against the Sikh code of conduct and belief. Sikhs, once they become Amritdhari (baptised) via the Amrit Sanskar (baptism ceremony), are forbidden from eating any form of meat, egg or fish Kutha or ritually-slaughtered (Halal, Kosher) meat because it transgresses one of the four restrictions in the Sikh Code of Conduct. According to the Akal Takht (Central Body for Sikh Temporal Affairs), Sikhs are not allowed to eat any meat, egg or fish. Other dietary Sikh practices include Sarbloh Bibek, which translates literally to "all-iron lifestyle", and consists of the use of only iron utensils and strictly eating food prepared by the Khalsa (Sikh community).

Edited January 26, 2016 by Tura Lura

[Mr Piano]

Do you know any Sikhs? All that I've met are vegetarian. Based on the rules below, i would assume that they would eat veggie on the ship. I would also think they would ask, since it's important to them. Just like someone who is actually halal or kosher would always ask.

 

In Sikhism, only lacto-vegetarian food is served in the Gurdwara (Sikh temple) but Sikhs are not bound to be meat-free. The general consensus is that people who are practicing the Sikh faith should not consume meat, egg or fish as it is against the Sikh code of conduct and belief. Sikhs, once they become Amritdhari (baptised) via the Amrit Sanskar (baptism ceremony), are forbidden from eating any form of meat, egg or fish Kutha or ritually-slaughtered (Halal, Kosher) meat because it transgresses one of the four restrictions in the Sikh Code of Conduct. According to the Akal Takht (Central Body for Sikh Temporal Affairs), Sikhs are not allowed to eat any meat, egg or fish. Other dietary Sikh practices include Sarbloh Bibek, which translates literally to "all-iron lifestyle", and consists of the use of only iron utensils and strictly eating food prepared by the Khalsa (Sikh community).

 

Yes I worked with a Sikh a few years ago, but never thought to enquired into what he ate. I do know that many Sikhs do eat meat, as the first line of the article you have googled States it's not forbidden. I remember sometime ago reading about the Sikh community objecting to subway going all halal. If you google further you will find many references to meat eating Sikhs. It is a misconception that all Practicing Sikhs are vegetarians. Those that do are prohibited from eating halal or kosher

[Presto2]

To be honest, I find this worrying.

 

Like many others I do not want to judge but I just want to be informed so that I can make an informed choice. Surely that is not a problem .....

 

Then again ... silly statement. Of course it is a problem to the cruise lines! If it was an easy option then P&O and every other main retailer would put it on the menu to inform people. The fact that they don't means that it would cause them a problem.

 

Not sure if that makes sense.

[jeanlyon]

I think I'll do what I normally do and stick to the fish!

[tartanexile81]

To be honest, I find this worrying.

 

Like many others I do not want to judge but I just want to be informed so that I can make an informed choice. Surely that is not a problem .....

 

Then again ... silly statement. Of course it is a problem to the cruise lines! If it was an easy option then P&O and every other main retailer would put it on the menu to inform people. The fact that they don't means that it would cause them a problem.

 

Not sure if that makes sense.

 

Even the P&O Customer Services rep I spoke to was shocked. When I asked if it was true much of the meat was Halal and told her it had been bubbling around social media for a few months that she said she'd look into it. I waited quite a while before she came back and told me how to opt out of Halal (with difficulty) and also that I had raised something she didn't know and was very surprised. I wonder what the Daily Mail / Daily Express would make of it? You know what they're like for this sort of thing

Edited January 26, 2016 by tartanexile81