new panama canal

[mailmama]

When will the new panama canal be open to let the larger ships pass through? Have any of the cruise lines mentioned or advertised this? We are hoping to do a transcanal trip but waiting on info. What do ya'll know?

[blackshirt]

When will the new panama canal be open to let the larger ships pass through? Have any of the cruise lines mentioned or advertised this? We are hoping to do a transcanal trip but waiting on info. What do ya'll know?

I'm not sure anyone knows for sure. When we went through the canal last March they said the completion date has continually been pushed back. The original completion date was supposed to be in 2014. I believe they are now saying sometime this year.

Edited March 8, 2016 by blackshirt

[BillB48]

As of now operational tests are underway with navigational tests to begin sometime in May for the new expansion locks. Current plans call for commercial operations to begin by July.

 

As far as I am aware of, none of the cruise lines have committed any of their larger Post-Panamax ships for Canal transits. I am sure they are just taking a wait and see position before taking the plunge.

 

Royal has an additional hurdle to clear with the Voyager and Freedom class ships since they are a little too tall by current Canal height clearance limits. Perhaps a waiver could be granted or modifications to the vessel that is going to use the Canal to permit passage. The Quantum class appear to be able to meet those requirements depending on the tide.

 

The height of the Oasis class at this point are too tall.

[Hoopster95]

Was told by Capt Srecko that Q cannot fit into new Panama locks due to the max beam at the life boats is to wide (even though max beam at waterline would be fine)

 

 

I cannot find anywhere what Quantum's height is with northstar in the down position. Can anyone find a link?

 

The photo below are the EXACT measurements of Q as taken directly off of the chief engineer's desk during the All Access Tour.

Note specifically the air draft = 62.5 meters

Panama max height = 57.91m

Panama max height (case by case) = 62.5m

Would RCL chance a $1billion dollar ship with zero clearance at the very best of tide conditions? I suspect still doesn't matter if the width of the ship at the lifeboats is too wide to fit anyways.

 

 

 

Edited March 8, 2016 by Hoopster95

[BillB48]

Hoopster, it looks like the air draft for the Q ships is right at the max air draft for the Bridge of Americas which is 62.5 meters (205') on the pics you provided. The max height for Panama 57.91m (190') is for unrestricted passage under the BoA. Tidal conditions are really not that restrictive, most of the month it only means limiting the passage under the BoA within a couple of hours of high tide. On most of those days you would have two 8 hour windows per day to get under the Bridge.

 

The beam at the lifeboats of 162' (49.47m) I don't believe is a problem although it appears to be in excess of the Canal's 160' limit for the new locks. As long as the area in question is more than 30' above the water, overhang would not prevent passage. Q and A's beam at the water line is 136'.

 

I guess this is all pretty academic since all the recent schedules Canal transits by Royal are rare if non existent!

[PCWalton1]

WOW, even if Royal doesn't send any ships through the canal thank you guys for that great information. It is amazing all the details that need to be work out when considering a different class of ship for the transit.

[mailmama]

You answered my questions way beyond a simple yes or no! Thanks for all the great (and interesting) information about the different class ships and the canal. Guess we will have to wait and see what comes of this. But again, thanks for all the great answers!!

[Merion_Mom]

Isn't the Bridge of the Americas still an issue?

[Hoopster95]

Isn't the Bridge of the Americas still an issue?

 

Yup...

Verazzano = 228ft at mid span

Quantum cleared by 5 m (16.5ft)

So Q clearance height approx 228 - 16.5 = 211.5 feet

 

BoA mid span height is 207... Q doesn't fit under BoA

but I guess depends on tidal conditions at certain times of the day as Bill explained.

I just can't see the benefit or value for RC risking a billion dollar investment on tides and timing, let alone the cost of paying the Panama Canal Authority to actually make the transit.

Edited March 9, 2016 by Hoopster95

[BillB48]

Yup...

Verazzano = 228ft at mid span

Quantum cleared by 5 m (16.5ft)

So Q clearance height approx 228 - 16.5 = 211.5 feet

 

BoA mid span height is 207... Q doesn't fit under BoA

but I guess depends on tidal conditions at certain times of the day as Bill explained.

I just can't see the benefit or value for RC risking a billion dollar investment on tides and timing, let alone the cost of paying the Panama Canal Authority to actually make the transit.

 

I think the pictures and data you provided from the engine control room tour is telling that Royal intends to keep the capability for a Panama Canal transit with their air draft matching the Canal's height limit.

 

When it comes to cost... we all know who pays the freight on that item! Just look at the taxes and fees portion of the cruise fare, cruises that involve a

Canal transit have extremely high taxes and fees. Taxes and fees for a 10 day partial transit cruise are over $300, while a 10 day non Canal Caribbean cruise are normally less than half of that!

 

It all makes for good discussion, but as I said earlier I'm not sure Royal is really planning on Canal transits to any great extent. I think one of the earliest indications we may see is if and when they bring one of Celebrity's Solstice class ships through the Canal. They made some modifications to one of them a little while ago to be able to pass under the Lion's Gate Bridge up in YVR.

[tncap]

Taxes and fees for a 10 day partial transit cruise are over $300, while a 10 day non Canal Caribbean cruise are normally less than half of that!

 

I'm doing a partial transit 14 day cruise next year and somehow only have $129.14 in port fees and taxes. I just did a mock booking and they are now at $309/pp.

[BillB48]

I'm doing a partial transit 14 day cruise next year and somehow only have $129.14 in port fees and taxes. I just did a mock booking and they are now at $309/pp.

 

I certainly hope the 129 stands after you reach final payment. They may have just put a place holder price for the taxes and fees when you booked. As I understand it the taxes and fees is one area they are not bound to an exact quote and can pass along changes. Perhaps when you booked the cruise the cruise line was not sure of what the tolls for the Canal would be at the time of your cruise. The tolls are rising a bit for ships using the current locks in April. That toll increase was supposed to coincide with the opening of the expansion locks this April. Since the opening is delayed a few months I really don't know if that means the increased tolls would also be delayed. Maybe that's just wishful thinking!

 

In any event it should be a great cruise!!

[chengkp75]

I certainly hope the 129 stands after you reach final payment. They may have just put a place holder price for the taxes and fees when you booked. As I understand it the taxes and fees is one area they are not bound to an exact quote and can pass along changes. Perhaps when you booked the cruise the cruise line was not sure of what the tolls for the Canal would be at the time of your cruise. The tolls are rising a bit for ships using the current locks in April. That toll increase was supposed to coincide with the opening of the expansion locks this April. Since the opening is delayed a few months I really don't know if that means the increased tolls would also be delayed. Maybe that's just wishful thinking!

 

In any event it should be a great cruise!!

 

 

The other thing that changes port taxes greatly on Canal transits is the number of passengers booked. The ship pays tariff on either the maximum or double occupancy capacity of the ship (don't remember which) whether the capacity is reached or not (empty beds still pay the same), so that is a fixed fee (unless the Authority changes the tariff), but the cruise line then divides that tariff into the number of passengers booked, so this can change from day to day.

[BillB48]

The other thing that changes port taxes greatly on Canal transits is the number of passengers booked. The ship pays tariff on either the maximum or double occupancy capacity of the ship (don't remember which) whether the capacity is reached or not (empty beds still pay the same), so that is a fixed fee (unless the Authority changes the tariff), but the cruise line then divides that tariff into the number of passengers booked, so this can change from day to day.

 

As long as there is one revenue passenger on board they will pay the higher rate for all passenger berths, right now it is $134 per. And that's absolutely correct, the Canal doesn't care if there is a head in the bed or not!! If they should have the misfortune of having no revenue passengers on board as one of the Celebrity ships had a couple of years ago on an emergency trip to the yard in Freeport, then they will receive the "in ballast" rate of $108 per... what a deal;)! However none of those empty berths buy anything at the bars or donate at the casino!

 

I have done some rough calculations on some of on the carved out portion of the fare just to get a ballpark idea of what the cruise lines are charging... and what I have come up with is the cruise lines generally allot somewhere around $160 for the Canal transit... guess that helps balance out the difference between double occupancy and full occupancy. I have also noted that some of the cruise lines list "taxes, fees and port fees" to cover more of what they separate from the fare.

 

The bad news is whenever it occurs, the transit fee for passenger berth will go up whenever they decide to implement them. The good news for ships using the present locks the toll will only rise to $138 per, maybe not that bad considering all the potential cost overruns. Passenger ships using the new locks the toll will be $148 per.

[chengkp75]

As long as there is one revenue passenger on board they will pay the higher rate for all passenger berths, right now it is $134 per. And that's absolutely correct, the Canal doesn't care if there is a head in the bed or not!! If they should have the misfortune of having no revenue passengers on board as one of the Celebrity ships had a couple of years ago on an emergency trip to the yard in Freeport, then they will receive the "in ballast" rate of $108 per... what a deal;)! However none of those empty berths buy anything at the bars or donate at the casino!

 

I have done some rough calculations on some of on the carved out portion of the fare just to get a ballpark idea of what the cruise lines are charging... and what I have come up with is the cruise lines generally allot somewhere around $160 for the Canal transit... guess that helps balance out the difference between double occupancy and full occupancy. I have also noted that some of the cruise lines list "taxes, fees and port fees" to cover more of what they separate from the fare.

 

The bad news is whenever it occurs, the transit fee for passenger berth will go up whenever they decide to implement them. The good news for ships using the present locks the toll will only rise to $138 per, maybe not that bad considering all the potential cost overruns. Passenger ships using the new locks the toll will be $148 per.

 

Yes, when we took the Pride of Aloha to Freeport to re-flag back to the Norwegian Sky, we were without pax, and paid the in-ballast tariff.

[tncap]

I certainly hope the 129 stands after you reach final payment. They may have just put a place holder price for the taxes and fees when you booked.

 

I recently found out why it is so low. When originally scheduled, the cruise was not scheduled for a partial transit. When the schedule changed they raised the port fees but honored the lower fees for those already booked.

[BillB48]

That's great! Thanks for the update.

[SeahawkSiren]

We are doing the full transit in October. I just looked at my NCL invoice and the government taxes/port fees is listed at $338.75 per person.