Interesting article about the Haven

[kathybelcher2433]

OP - Thank you for the article. I will have my butler review it and then provide me a summary after my spa.

 

 

I'm going to have my butler call your butler to set up a meeting to discuss this!

[cmdchiefthom]

I began booking suites long ago aboard Holland America's ships because they had bigger balconies. I carried that over to NCL, and Princess for that matter. Face it, now the suite level rooms are at the Haven level. So if I want a suite on the newest ships, most are located in the Haven, or include access to that part of the ship. Sorry about that.:eek:

[xriva]

The point the article missed is that Norwegian and other vendors will take money from anyone. If you're riff-raff with enough money, you're in the Haven. It's not a class system because you only need to rich enough to pay for the cruise.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Forums mobile app

[emmak8]

The article is far far from the truth.

[zackarykeef]

The article fails to mention that most of the Haven suites have been designed with families in mind, and that at times, it is cheaper or more convinient for a family of four to book a Haven suite than to book two separate balcony cabins.

 

First of all, please, please, please let me know when it is cheaper to book a Haven suite than two balconies (so I can get in on that). I think I'm a pretty good researcher/deal finder, but I have NEVER seen that. The Haven is always AT LEAST twice as much per person as a balcony (or even a mini), but usually three or four times as much. You're already paying way more for two people in the Haven than you would for four people split in two separate balcony rooms.

 

I agree that the article is BS. I totally agree that you get what you pay for, and if people want to pay extra money for exclusivity and perks, then that is exactly what they should get. I have never sailed in a suite or the Haven, and although I know I'd enjoy it, I've never had the desire to do so. For me, I've always viewed cruises as a more cost-effective vacation that we usually plan last minute. I don't go on cruises looking for luxury...I'm fine with a standard room. When I've wanted a more opulent vacation, we spent more money on going to more exotic locales.

 

I'm not affluent by any means, but I don't think the Haven screams "rich"...it simply shows who has what priorities and wanted to pay more at the time, and that's perfectly acceptable. The super-fancy aren't sailing in the Haven...they're off on private yachts or cruising on Crystal or Azamara, let's be honest ;)

[DawgDad93]

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2016/04/24/business/economy/velvet-rope-economy.html?partner=rss&emc=rss&smid=tw-nytimes&smtyp=cur&_r=1&referer=

 

Our family of four is booked in a Haven suite on the Epic next March. I didn't realize how exclusive it was given that all I had to do to book it was a provide a credit card number. Now I can't wait to rub elbows with Mark Zuckerberg, Jay-Z, Princess Kate, and untold Senators and hedge fund billionaires out by the miniature pool!

[pieshops]

First of all, please, please, please let me know when it is cheaper to book a Haven suite than two balconies (so I can get in on that). I think I'm a pretty good researcher/deal finder, but I have NEVER seen that. The Haven is always AT LEAST twice as much per person as a balcony (or even a mini), but usually three or four times as much. You're already paying way more for two people in the Haven than you would for four people split in two separate balcony rooms.

 

I agree that the article is BS. I totally agree that you get what you pay for, and if people want to pay extra money for exclusivity and perks, then that is exactly what they should get. I have never sailed in a suite or the Haven, and although I know I'd enjoy it, I've never had the desire to do so. For me, I've always viewed cruises as a more cost-effective vacation that we usually plan last minute. I don't go on cruises looking for luxury...I'm fine with a standard room. When I've wanted a more opulent vacation, we spent more money on going to more exotic locales.

 

I'm not affluent by any means, but I don't think the Haven screams "rich"...it simply shows who has what priorities and wanted to pay more at the time, and that's perfectly acceptable. The super-fancy aren't sailing in the Haven...they're off on private yachts or cruising on Crystal or Azamara, let's be honest ;)

 

When we booked out December Asia cruise on the Star the week after pricing came out we looked at 2 inside cabins with 2 in each cabin, the price was 3500 per cabin for a 14 day cruise. We then looked at a family suite, now there is no haven on the star but we still get everything else. The price for the one family suite came out to 6200. additionally we got all 4 amenities, not just the one we would have gotten with the inside.

 

This is the first time we have found it to be cheaper, usually it is about 1000 more for our haven then booking 2 balconies, but with getting all 4 promos recently on the haven it has been worth it

[Two Wheels Only]

First of all, please, please, please let me know when it is cheaper to book a Haven suite than two balconies (so I can get in on that). I think I'm a pretty good researcher/deal finder, but I have NEVER seen that. The Haven is always AT LEAST twice as much per person as a balcony (or even a mini), but usually three or four times as much. r two people in the Haven than you would for four people split in two separate balcony rooms.

 

I can state for a fact that 1 Haven room doesn't always cost double a balcony. That's not even taking perks into account.

 

Prices fluctuate. Sure, it can be more than double but I've done it for less than double.

Edited April 24, 2016 by Two Wheels Only

[txagfan]

The Haven is nice and I enjoyed our trip in it. That being said I really do not think a rich person would give it or NCL a second glance. These days I think it's geared for upper middle class.

 

Just because I'm curious...what would the income thresholds be for rich and upper middle class in your opinion?

[cruisin07family]

I decided to post the article because I felt that it was an over exaggeration about the attitude and expectations of Haven's guests as well as to the level of wealth of Haven guests. We are not rich but chose to pay a little bit more for the Haven and the non-haven suites to enjoy a quiet place and a bigger room. The article fails to mention that most of the Haven suites have been designed with families in mind, and that at times, it is cheaper or more convinient for a family of four to book a Haven suite than to book two separate balcony cabins.

 

I was also taken back by the quote from RCI Chairman regarding segregation. "Mr. Bayley and Royal Caribbean’s chairman, Richard Fain, say they ultimately decided against the ship-within-a-ship concept after studying the Haven. “That’s not the mojo or the culture of Royal Caribbean,” Mr. Bayley said. “The idea of segregating people into a class system is un-American. But if you live on Central Park, you are going to pay more. That’s how the system works.” However, isn't RCI now segregating passengers by class by offering a suite-only dinning venue?

 

 

No idea when you are or have cruised but absolutely NONE of the cruises we've taken have been "a little bit more" for the Haven or any suite. In fact, they've all been nearly double the cost of our balconies. I think the suites are ridiculously priced and not worth the small benefits on NCL, not sure about other lines. To each their own, of course.

[DMH15]

No idea when you are or have cruised but absolutely NONE of the cruises we've taken have been "a little bit more" for the Haven or any suite. In fact, they've all been nearly double the cost of our balconies. I think the suites are ridiculously priced and not worth the small benefits on NCL, not sure about other lines. To each their own, of course.

 

 

Since you think they are ridiculously priced and I do not, isn't it great that there are options for all of us? That is the beauty of it.

 

Funny, every now and then there are posts, much more than yours, who poke a little fun at those of us in suites. I have heard, "I don't need to be coddled", i don't need a butler to unpack for me", (neither do I actually), etc. I don't recall people in suites chastising someone who prefers an inside. I am not pointing at you, just remarking on the direction threads go sometimes. I perceived the original point of how out of touch the article is with reality.

[pokerpro5]

Ugh. What an obnoxious article.

 

Basically it's written to get the average reader angry at those awful rich people who get better things.

 

I have no problem with the Haven's existence.

 

It's also not for me, even though I could easily afford it.

 

I actually don't like when people wait on me hand and foot. I like doing things for myself. I like carrying my own bags (though I let NCL take some because I have too many to carry), parking my own car, driving myself on my own tours, and making my own plans.

 

I don't need a butler or concierge.

 

I also don't feel inferior to The Haven customers. I'm not bothered that they get a few extra perks. They paid a lot more than me, so why shouldn't they?

 

All I really need is a good balcony room where I can relax and enjoy the view, reservations at a specialty restaurant every night (because I hate crappy food), and an itinerary of ports I find interesting (where I will book my own tours or drive myself around).

[samiam0403]

First of all, please, please, please let me know when it is cheaper to book a Haven suite than two balconies (so I can get in on that). I think I'm a pretty good researcher/deal finder, but I have NEVER seen that. The Haven is always AT LEAST twice as much per person as a balcony (or even a mini), but usually three or four times as much. You're already paying way more for two people in the Haven than you would for four people split in two separate balcony rooms.

 

I agree that the article is BS. I totally agree that you get what you pay for, and if people want to pay extra money for exclusivity and perks, then that is exactly what they should get. I have never sailed in a suite or the Haven, and although I know I'd enjoy it, I've never had the desire to do so. For me, I've always viewed cruises as a more cost-effective vacation that we usually plan last minute. I don't go on cruises looking for luxury...I'm fine with a standard room. When I've wanted a more opulent vacation, we spent more money on going to more exotic locales.

 

I'm not affluent by any means, but I don't think the Haven screams "rich"...it simply shows who has what priorities and wanted to pay more at the time, and that's perfectly acceptable. The super-fancy aren't sailing in the Haven...they're off on private yachts or cruising on Crystal or Azamara, let's be honest ;)

 

Haven was cheaper than 2 balconies on our Getaway cruise this January. The aft balconies were approx $1300 pp and we had 3 ladies sailing. Putting the 3 of us in those balconies was about $5200, and then there would have been the additional 18% on our UBP. The Haven added up to $4500 for the 3 of us in a forward facing penthouse and included the UBP, UDP, and $550 OBC. And no 18% service fee.

 

And I agree 100% with your comments - the Haven doesn't scream rich at all. The truly wealthy aren't sailing in the Haven - those who prioritize what they want in a vacation and make room for it in their budgets sail in the Haven. :)

[esp13]

I was surprised and a little thrilled to read the article and find out I'm rich and part of the upper class. Since it takes me a couple of years to save up the money to sail in the Haven, I figured I was just a middle class person who liked a little extra pampering on my vacations. Who knew?

 

As others have said, that's where the article truly misses the boat (pun intended). It's not that what it says doesn't apply to anyone sailing in suites and the Haven, it's that it clearly doesn't apply to everyone. Everybody has a different reason for choosing the Haven (or not choosing it) and making judgments about the economic status or lifestyle attitudes of people based on those choices is just stupid. My boss makes way more money that I do and he never cruises in suites because it doesn't fit what he and his family are looking for. Due to work realities, I have to plan my vacations pretty far in advance and the calm and relaxing feel of the Haven works best for me. It's really that simple.

 

And I'm not sure why the cruising industry is singled out. Hotels, airplanes, and other travel related industries have always offered better perks or accomodations for those willing to pay more money. Heck, based on a difference in fares, I'd bet first class on most flights is "more exclusive" than the Haven.

[renata102]

What you say is very true. In my case, I set a travel budget for myself. I personally prefer to take multiple vacations versus one with a fancier cabin and more services. That doesn't make anyone else's choices wrong, it's just mine. I do aspire to try the Haven if I can get an upsell at the right price, but I'm afraid once I try it I won't want to go back, lol.:rolleyes:

 

I am like you. We have multiple vacations a year. We just did the 10 day last month. This summer me , my husband and 2 school age kids will spend about 3 weeks in Poland and Italy (my 10 year old son chose Italy this year). And of course we will be staying at Airbnb places and family hostels and use public transportation and usually eat where the locals eat and i will also prepare local inspired food when I will shop in local markets.

 

We will also do a few "long weekend " trips and usually a week in Florida and or Peru.

 

Maybe I can stay in the haven. We can afford it. But the we can't take our other vacations.

[renata102]

Just because I'm curious...what would the income thresholds be for rich and upper middle class in your opinion?

 

I am not the one that posted.

 

I won't divulge my income but I though it was middle class , but my accountant told us we are considered "upper middle class". I also live in northern NJ where cost of living is high, so to me I feel middle class. We have two school age kids

 

 

Below $20,000 = in poverty

Below $30,000 = working poor

$30,000 - $50,000 = working class

$50,000 - $75,000 = lower middle class

$75,000 - $100,000 = middle class

$100,000 - $250,000 = upper middle class

$250,000 and above = wealthy

 

In NJ

Below $30,000 = in poverty

Below $40,000 = Working poor

$40,000 - $55,000 = working class

$55,000 - $85,000 = lower middle class

$85,000 - $125,000 = middle class

$125,000 - $300,000 = upper middle class

$300,000 and above = wealthy

 

 

When we first started cruising we were in the lower middle class some 15 years ago.

[Homosassa]

When all is said and done, those who go for the Haven or other exclusive areas on other mass market lines are still just getting a penthouse on top of the ghetto low income housing.

 

Good for those who need that validation that they are "special," but laughable to those with self esteem.

 

For those who want to travel with others of their upper socio-economic background, there are other cruise lines where they can find that and have an entire ship to roam around in and not just a special "enclave" behind locked doors.

 

All in all, however, this is a slick marketing gimmick. These special areas are usually on the highest decks and all the forward or aft. These are the sections of the ships that for years were either open decks or had other public areas on them for the simple reason they were the area where the most movement would be felt on the ship and, therefore, unsuitable for passenger accommodations.

 

While the use of stabilizers can somewhat control roll but does nothing for pitch or yawl, many feel that ship movement is a thing of the past. That naivete plus the lure of "special" treatment has the gullible paying more for the worst cabin locations on a ship. Their mistake is realized when the top heavy cruise ship hits rough weather.

 

The passengers in the low and amidships cabins are enjoying the cruise while those in the upper cabins are barfing into the toilet.

Edited April 24, 2016 by Homosassa

[cruisemainiac]

The article and writer has no concept of a free enterprise system. The cruise industry exists because it supplies a product people want and are willing to pay for. It's growing because people perceive that the money they spend and the product they receive in return is of equal value or greater value, so they continue to purchase cruises.

 

The cruise lines in order to keep customer returning and attract new customers need to provide new variations and innovations of the product or cruises. This has driven the cruise lines over the edge in my opinion. It looks nothing like it did 10 or 15 years ago. Who would have ever though that you would be able to go to a floating Six Flags or Disney Land with 6000+ of you "closest" friends. If there is just a hiccup in the economy and cruising drops by say 15%. How long will it take before we start seeing these corporations filing chapter 11.

 

Any way, I say all that to say this. The Haven exists because the demand is there. Prices have increased because there is more demand than supply.

Say you have a garage sale and someone shows up and finds a lamp you're selling for $15. They share they've been looking for a lamp just like this all weekend. Are you going to haggle on the price? No, as a matter of fact I bet you're thinking that you should have asked $20. That is free enterprise. It has nothing to do with a class system, it's providing something a customer wants and feels the value of the product is such that they're willing to open their wallet.

 

For me I shop hard to get the most I can for my $$$. Our best deal, $1350/pp, 2 bedroom Haven suite on the Epic, with $250 credit back on Amex. Supply was definitely higher than demand.:)

[kathybelcher2433]

When all is said and done, those who go for the Haven or other exclusive areas on other mass market lines are still just getting a penthouse on top of the ghetto low income housing.

 

Good for those who need that validation that they are "special," but laughable to those with self esteem.

 

For those who want to travel with others of their upper socio-economic background, there are other cruise lines where they can find that and have an entire ship to roam around in and not just a special "enclave" behind locked doors.

 

All in all, however, this is a slick marketing gimmick. These special areas are usually on the highest decks and all the forward or aft. These are the sections of the ships that for years were either open decks or had other public areas on them for the simple reason they were the area where the most movement would be felt on the ship and, therefore, unsuitable for passenger accommodations.

 

While the use of stabilizers can somewhat control roll but does nothing for pitch or yawl, many feel that ship movement is a thing of the past. That naivete plus the lure of "special" treatment has the gullible paying more for the worst cabin locations on a ship. Their mistake is realized when the top heavy cruise ship hits rough weather.

 

The passengers in the low and amidships cabins are enjoying the cruise while those in the upper cabins are barfing into the toilet.

 

 

You sound like a barrel of laughs at cocktail parties.

[murfette]

When all is said and done, those who go for the Haven or other exclusive areas on other mass market lines are still just getting a penthouse on top of the ghetto low income housing.

 

Good for those who need that validation that they are "special," but laughable to those with self esteem.

 

For those who want to travel with others of their upper socio-economic background, there are other cruise lines where they can find that and have an entire ship to roam around in and not just a special "enclave" behind locked doors.

 

All in all, however, this is a slick marketing gimmick. These special areas are usually on the highest decks and all the forward or aft. These are the sections of the ships that for years were either open decks or had other public areas on them for the simple reason they were the area where the most movement would be felt on the ship and, therefore, unsuitable for passenger accommodations.

 

While the use of stabilizers can somewhat control roll but does nothing for pitch or yawl, many feel that ship movement is a thing of the past. That naivete plus the lure of "special" treatment has the gullible paying more for the worst cabin locations on a ship. Their mistake is realized when the top heavy cruise ship hits rough weather.

 

The passengers in the low and amidships cabins are enjoying the cruise while those in the upper cabins are barfing into the toilet.

 

WOW just WOW. You are so delusional it is not even funny. :confused::confused::confused::confused::confused:

I need no validation!

I never have been sea sick and been in some very rough waters! Love the aft best and love the movement of the ship.

I have plenty of self esteem!

 

Reasons we do haven have nothing to do with butler or concierge. Really dont use either much but private dining and priority check in and disembarkation is a huge plus in my book. Less crowded spaces another plus!

The reason we dont do other lines is I like the casual dress and more informal atmosphere.

[txagfan]

I am not the one that posted.

 

 

 

I won't divulge my income but I though it was middle class , but my accountant told us we are considered "upper middle class". I also live in northern NJ where cost of living is high, so to me I feel middle class. We have two school age kids

 

 

 

 

 

Below $20,000 = in poverty

 

Below $30,000 = working poor

 

$30,000 - $50,000 = working class

 

$50,000 - $75,000 = lower middle class

 

$75,000 - $100,000 = middle class

 

$100,000 - $250,000 = upper middle class

 

$250,000 and above = wealthy

 

 

 

In NJ

 

Below $30,000 = in poverty

 

Below $40,000 = Working poor

 

$40,000 - $55,000 = working class

 

$55,000 - $85,000 = lower middle class

 

$85,000 - $125,000 = middle class

 

$125,000 - $300,000 = upper middle class

 

$300,000 and above = wealthy

 

 

 

 

 

When we first started cruising we were in the lower middle class some 15 years ago.

 

 

 

I know you're not the one who I replied to, but this proves my point. People who are upper middle class and wealthy have a skewed view on where they really fall. Hell, even your income isn't indicative of where you cruise. For example, I could afford the Haven the same way I could afford a bigger house, newer car, etc, but something else would have to give. Lots of folks out there living high on the hog who can't rub two nickels together.

Edited April 24, 2016 by txagfan

[pieshops]

Guarantee the haters are voting for Bernie lol

[murfette]

guarantee the haters are voting for bernie lol

:d:d:d:d:d

[SuiteCruiser]

I think we'll all view the article differently than others who do not cruise or cruise once very infrequently. To a person working 3 jobs to keep their family afloat, a week in the Haven would be the royal treatment as written in the article. There are many (far too many) people out there who cannot afford to go on vacation at all, let alone a cruise.

 

If you're on CC, you cruise frequently enough to want to keep up with cruise news and chat about it, you're rich enough to travel once every couple of years or more, so we're viewing it with those eyes.

 

I call a lot of it BS in the article, but I can see how it would look from the outside.

 

I also remember my first Carnival cruise in Grade 12, and we were able to have quick look into a suite as it was being cleaned and thought you'd have to be a millionaire to be able to afford that! We were 4 to an inside and thought it was the best vacation ever.

Edited April 24, 2016 by SuiteCruiser

[sjbdtz]

Ugh. What an obnoxious article.

 

Basically it's written to get the average reader angry at those awful rich people who get better things.

 

I have no problem with the Haven's existence.

 

It's also not for me, even though I could easily afford it.

 

I actually don't like when people wait on me hand and foot. I like doing things for myself. I like carrying my own bags (though I let NCL take some because I have too many to carry), parking my own car, driving myself on my own tours, and making my own plans.

 

I don't need a butler or concierge.

 

I also don't feel inferior to The Haven customers. I'm not bothered that they get a few extra perks. They paid a lot more than me, so why shouldn't they?

 

All I really need is a good balcony room where I can relax and enjoy the view, reservations at a specialty restaurant every night (because I hate crappy food), and an itinerary of ports I find interesting (where I will book my own tours or drive myself around).

 

 

You make some valid points.

 

I also am not usually the type who wants catering-to. I try to do self-carry luggage, and am always rushing to get out of my taxi at hotels, to prevent the bellhop from loading my luggage on their cart - I prefer to carry it myself.

 

I look for self-park, because I find it aggravating to have to call a valet & wait for my car, when I could otherwise know where the car is, and just go get it myself.

 

But on vacation, I hate the idea of spending my time lining up. Priority lanes, bypasses, and reserved seating all help me "relax hard" as the antidote to my regular "work hard". For this reason, the butler & concierge are helpful.

 

I'm flexible enough that if I can't get into Le Bistro with my 2 friends, at the time we desire, I can simply request the same food delivered to our cabin - and the bottleneck disappears.

 

I don't have to worry about pre-reserving (actually - most people don't NEED to worry about this either, though some choose to) dining, or shows, etc. The concierge can work miracles.

 

And though I've had very enjoyable cruises in balcony cabins, mini-suites, and inside cabins, I do enjoy the extra space that the penthouse provides.

 

 

 

NOTE: nothing in my list of PRO attributes for a suite/Haven has anything at all to do with validation, self-worth, showing-off, etc. If we have a nice view, or cabin location, we enjoy sharing it with friends.

 

 

Stephen

 

.