WDW Tragedy

[3KDZ]

Sorry, but the lagoon is not infested with gators.

 

The size of gators living there was being managed, and those that could cause harm or injury, let alone death were being removed.

 

 

 

One large enough to have done this either was not noticed, or could have recently entered the lagoon.

 

 

 

Disney can do wrong.

 

So can parents. You obviously were ignorant of gators in large spaces of water in Florida when you took your kids and your grandkids there from your home in the north.

 

 

 

The best person to protect your family is yourself. No one else.

 

And you should never rely on someone else to do your job for you.

 

 

 

ex techie

 

 

 

How many gators qualify as infested. It's been reported that at least five gators were removed immediately after the boy was killed. What was reported, if accurate and not an intentionally lower number than reality, doesn't tell us how many gators were not caught and how many more they know are in the water. What you catch is a totally different number than what is actually there. There's no way the public is going to be told the actual state of affairs for fear of public perception hurting business and the possible pending litigation from the family. As for the size of the gators being "managed" to prevent harm or injury, that obviously was a huge failure now wasn't it. I find your comments to be pretty ignorant. I believe that most people are aware that gators exist and live in Florida. But, we are talking about a very expensive Disney Resort, that although exists in Florida, would be considered "different" by most people because it's a resort owned by Disney. The body of water at the resort is a man made body of water. This would lead the average person to believe that it was made by Disney, is part of the resort so it must be safe. Most people believe that Disney, being one of the most respected brands in existence, would never put their family at risk. Remember, most people that visit Disney each year DON'T live in Florida. This little boy wasn't killed in the Everglades, he was killed in inches of water at a Disney resort. Let's remember that the beach the family was on is used to promote the property. There are lounge chairs on the beach, children's play equipment just feet from the water, and events hosted by Disney right there in the sand. I don't believe any parent at THIS resort could be called ignorant for not knowing that the lake was a death risk. How could Disney, knowing that there was a risk, not have a barrier to keep kids away from the water and a barrier to keep gators away from the beach where Disney promotes that families enjoy themselves. At the very least have signs to warn people. In my opinion, Disney is 100 percent liable in this situation. Never put profit before people. And yes, we all are ultimately responsible for our own safety and the safety of our children. Just remember, there are always situations where your safety or the safety of your family is in the hands of other people. Ever fly on a plane? Ever drive in a car? We all have a responsibility, not just to ourselves, but also to others. And isn't that what was missing here?

 

 

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[Irene7]

How many gators qualify as infested. It's been reported that at least five gators were removed immediately after the boy was killed. What was reported, if accurate and not an intentionally lower number than reality, doesn't tell us how many gators were not caught and how many more they know are in the water. What you catch is a totally different number than what is actually there. There's no way the public is going to be told the actual state of affairs for fear of public perception hurting business and the possible pending litigation from the family. As for the size of the gators being "managed" to prevent harm or injury, that obviously was a huge failure now wasn't it. I find your comments to be pretty ignorant. I believe that most people are aware that gators exist and live in Florida. But, we are talking about a very expensive Disney Resort, that although exists in Florida, would be considered "different" by most people because it's a resort owned by Disney. The body of water at the resort is a man made body of water. This would lead the average person to believe that it was made by Disney, is part of the resort so it must be safe. Most people believe that Disney, being one of the most respected brands in existence, would never put their family at risk. Remember, most people that visit Disney each year DON'T live in Florida. This little boy wasn't killed in the Everglades, he was killed in inches of water at a Disney resort. Let's remember that the beach the family was on is used to promote the property. There are lounge chairs on the beach, children's play equipment just feet from the water, and events hosted by Disney right there in the sand. I don't believe any parent at THIS resort could be called ignorant for not knowing that the lake was a death risk. How could Disney, knowing that there was a risk, not have a barrier to keep kids away from the water and a barrier to keep gators away from the beach where Disney promotes that families enjoy themselves. At the very least have signs to warn people. In my opinion, Disney is 100 percent liable in this situation. Never put profit before people. And yes, we all are ultimately responsible for our own safety and the safety of our children. Just remember, there are always situations where your safety or the safety of your family is in the hands of other people. Ever fly on a plane? Ever drive in a car? We all have a responsibility, not just to ourselves, but also to others. And isn't that what was missing here?

 

 

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It doesn't matter whether it is a resort or what company owns it. In Florida there will always be gators and quite a lot of them. They end up in residents pools, crossing streets and are most likely in every lake, pond or any body of water. They are impossible to keep out and when removed they WILL come back. I do feel that proper signage and fencing off the water areas should have been done, but never in a million years would I go in any body of water in Florida because I always assume there are gators in the water. I am from the NE and know this much.

Edited June 23, 2016 by Irene7

[3KDZ]

It doesn't matter whether it is a resort or what company owns it. In Florida there will always be gators and quite a lot of them. They end up in residents pools, crossing streets and are most likely in every lake, pond or any body of water. They are impossible to keep out and when removed they WILL come back. I do feel that proper signage and fencing off the water areas should have been done, but never in a million years would I go in any body of water in Florida because I always assume there are gators in the water. I am from the NE and know this much.

 

 

You are definitely more aware of the gator conditions in Florida than the average non-resident. As I previously stated, I too feel that proper signage and fencing should have been present for all or the reasons that you stated. The fact that Disney took zero precautions to warn guests is what makes them liable in my opinion. It's just a sad shame that a little boy had to lose his life of something so easily preventable.

[Capt_BJ]

A few observations

 

- every inland body of water in Florida now needs a sign every 3 feet warning of 'gators ... and btw folks, there are croc's in Florida too so b4 the lawyers gang up on this loophole I guess the signs need to mention both .....

 

- surf side, Gulf and Atlantic we need similar signs which warn of sharks, rays, croc's (yep they swim in saltwater) ... and lion fish which can sting ... and and

 

- would one BIG sign at the state line on the highways and at the airports suffice????

 

- I see a bunch of folks who say FL is too dangerous to visit ..... darn ..... gonna miss you ....

 

- p.s these signs need to up on the beaches in Cayman ... Cozumel ... Key West .... San Diego .... San Fran ..... WARNING DANGEROUS WILDLIFE ... STAY 20 FEET FROM WATER ... and overhead plants

 

In Orlando people find bears in their back yard

 

ugh .... I'm done

Edited June 23, 2016 by Capt_BJ

[Irene7]

You are definitely more aware of the gator conditions in Florida than the average non-resident. As I previously stated, I too feel that proper signage and fencing should have been present for all or the reasons that you stated. The fact that Disney took zero precautions to warn guests is what makes them liable in my opinion. It's just a sad shame that a little boy had to lose his life of something so easily preventable.

 

I agree. Disney was well aware of the gators and for them to assume that they would not be a danger is shear stupidity and greed combined. In the meantime, anyone visiting DW or just the state of Florida must stay away from all bodies of water.

[Irene7]

A few observations

 

- every inland body of water in Florida now needs a sign every 3 feet warning of 'gators ... and btw folks, there are croc's in Florida too so b4 the lawyers gang up on this loophole I guess the signs need to mention both .....

 

- surf side, Gulf and Atlantic we need similar signs which warn of sharks, rays, croc's (yep they swim in saltwater) ... and lion fish which can sting ... and and

 

- would one BIG sign at the state line on the highways and at the airports suffice????

 

- I see a bunch of folks who say FL is too dangerous to visit ..... darn ..... gonna miss you ....

 

- p.s these signs need to up on the beaches in Cayman ... Cozumel ... Key West .... San Diego .... San Fran ..... WARNING DANGEROUS WILDLIFE ... STAY 20 FEET FROM WATER ... and overhead plants

 

In Orlando people find bears in their back yard

 

ugh .... I'm done

 

Yes, there are American Crocks in Florida and also the Caribbean so for those of us cruising or flying direct, it is good to know. Signage is very important where a lot of people gather like a resort etc. But it is mainly common sense. Research an area that you will travel including the resident wildlife and take precautions. Like I said in an early post, I would never go in any body of water in Florida because I assume there are gators. With that said, I will continue to go to Florida and DW, I just won't go in the ponds, lakes etc.

Edited June 23, 2016 by Irene7

[moki'smommy]

Disney had signs up that said "No Swimming," and that should have been sufficient. BUT they also allowed water sports in the same lagoon. That rather negates their signs.

 

Stronger signs and fencing is fine, but it wasn't lack of signs that caused the death. It was failure to follow and/or see the existing signs.

[3KDZ]

A few observations

 

- every inland body of water in Florida now needs a sign every 3 feet warning of 'gators ... and btw folks, there are croc's in Florida too so b4 the lawyers gang up on this loophole I guess the signs need to mention both .....

 

- surf side, Gulf and Atlantic we need similar signs which warn of sharks, rays, croc's (yep they swim in saltwater) ... and lion fish which can sting ... and and

 

- would one BIG sign at the state line on the highways and at the airports suffice????

 

- I see a bunch of folks who say FL is too dangerous to visit ..... darn ..... gonna miss you ....

 

- p.s these signs need to up on the beaches in Cayman ... Cozumel ... Key West .... San Diego .... San Fran ..... WARNING DANGEROUS WILDLIFE ... STAY 20 FEET FROM WATER ... and overhead plants

 

In Orlando people find bears in their back yard

 

ugh .... I'm done

 

 

 

I think it's important to stay on point and remember that this tragedy happened at a Disney Resort that promoted their beach as a SAFE, family friendly amenity that could be enjoyed safely. This was certainly not the case. This tragedy didn't occur at a public beach, or a swamp, or a random pond, or in the ocean, or anywhere other than the Disney Grand Floridian Resort. There is a certain level of safety that is expected when staying at any resort as a guest.(like not being killed by an alligator at the resort beach that you are encouraged to enjoy as a family) This man made lagoon was and is nothing more than an alligator habitat. Disney offered no warning or protection of any possible danger, period. I can't imagine that any resident or non-resident of Florida would set up their beach chairs, beach towels or umbrellas in the Everglades for a day of vacation. I can't imagine that anyone would install children's play equipment just feet from the swamp with no protection. I can't imagine attempting to watch a movie or enjoy a family activity at the Everglade's edge. Who would knowingly set up to vacation in these types of conditions? So how is this beach at the Disney Grand Floridian any different than the everglades or the swamp? I don't think it's any different now that we know what we know. My expectations have always been higher when considering anything Disney. Disney public perception (at least mine) has always been of a company that operates at a higher standard and one that offers a higher standard in experience, service, amenities and safety. I think this is reflected in Disney's prices. But again, I feel that Disney could not have failed Lane Graves and his family more than they did. I have been a supporter of Disney my entire life. From vacations, to cruises, to movies and toys for my kids. But, as a father and as a human being, I am saddened and pissed off to no end that a preventable tragedy like this had to occur. And if someone like me, or anyone else, suggesting warning signs upsets or bothers you, then you may want to check yourself because putting anything before the life of child is completely pathetic.

[Shmoo here]

I think it's important to stay on point and remember that this tragedy happened at a Disney Resort that promoted their beach as a SAFE, family friendly amenity that could be enjoyed safely. This was certainly not the case. This tragedy didn't occur at a public beach, or a swamp, or a random pond, or in the ocean, or anywhere other than the Disney Grand Floridian Resort. There is a certain level of safety that is expected when staying at any resort as a guest.(like not being killed by an alligator at the resort beach that you are encouraged to enjoy as a family) This man made lagoon was and is nothing more than an alligator habitat. Disney offered no warning or protection of any possible danger, period. I can't imagine that any resident or non-resident of Florida would set up their beach chairs, beach towels or umbrellas in the Everglades for a day of vacation. I can't imagine that anyone would install children's play equipment just feet from the swamp with no protection. I can't imagine attempting to watch a movie or enjoy a family activity at the Everglade's edge. Who would knowingly set up to vacation in these types of conditions? So how is this beach at the Disney Grand Floridian any different than the everglades or the swamp? I don't think it's any different now that we know what we know. My expectations have always been higher when considering anything Disney. Disney public perception (at least mine) has always been of a company that operates at a higher standard and one that offers a higher standard in experience, service, amenities and safety. I think this is reflected in Disney's prices. But again, I feel that Disney could not have failed Lane Graves and his family more than they did. I have been a supporter of Disney my entire life. From vacations, to cruises, to movies and toys for my kids. But, as a father and as a human being, I am saddened and pissed off to no end that a preventable tragedy like this had to occur. And if someone like me, or anyone else, suggesting warning signs upsets or bothers you, then you may want to check yourself because putting anything before the life of child is completely pathetic.

 

There were "No swimming" signs. Why do we need more specific "alligators, snakes, and whatever else present" signs? In my opinion "no swimming" means "don't go in the water" (either full immersion, or "just dabbling my toes")

 

Personal responsibility should kick in somewhere.

 

Yes, it's a bit uncomfortable when the same body of water is being used by Disney for water activities (although I believe they are all in boats, not swimming or other full bodies in water activities), as the "made for enjoyment" beach at the resorts, but there was some restriction posted, and ignored.

[Shih-tzu]

I don't think there's any way to keep alligators away from any water in Florida... For those of us more "northern" think "raccoons" - no matter what you do, they' will be somewhere in the neighbourhood. If they rounded them all up and took them away, more would move in.

 

Tragic event? Definitely - no question there. Unfortunately, alligators don't realize they're at Disney and shouldn't be there. There were alligators everywhere there before there was a Mouse - it's their habitat.

[3KDZ]

There were "No swimming" signs. Why do we need more specific "alligators, snakes, and whatever else present" signs? In my opinion "no swimming" means "don't go in the water" (either full immersion, or "just dabbling my toes")

 

 

 

Personal responsibility should kick in somewhere.

 

 

 

Yes, it's a bit uncomfortable when the same body of water is being used by Disney for water activities (although I believe they are all in boats, not swimming or other full bodies in water activities), as the "made for enjoyment" beach at the resorts, but there was some restriction posted, and ignored.

 

 

 

It's hard to believe that you are actually asking this question after what has occurred. Please, let me try to help make it simple and clear for you and for anyone else that doesn't get it. The reason you need more specific signs warning of alligators is to prevent children from being killed by the alligators. Does this help?

 

 

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[Shmoo here]

It's hard to believe that you are actually asking this question after what has occurred. Please, let me try to help make it simple and clear for you and for anyone else that doesn't get it. The reason you need more specific signs warning of alligators is to prevent children from being killed by the alligators. Does this help?

 

 

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Oh, I get it that we have spell things out these days. It's too bad that people can't figure out that "no swimming" means "stay out of the water" (regardless of what the reason is). Or that coffee is hot (without a specific disclaimer). Or that you're not supposed to eat laundry soap.

 

As I said, it mostly boils down to personal responsibility.

 

And, as the mother of 3 children, I'm asking, do you really think a child of 3 cares whether the sign says "no swimming" or specifically says "there are alligators here"? I doubt it. That would be the parents who should be watching out for the child's safety. I would hope they could read "no swimming" and take it to mean that.

[3KDZ]

I don't think there's any way to keep alligators away from any water in Florida... For those of us more "northern" think "raccoons" - no matter what you do, they' will be somewhere in the neighbourhood. If they rounded them all up and took them away, more would move in.

 

 

 

Tragic event? Definitely - no question there. Unfortunately, alligators don't realize they're at Disney and shouldn't be there. There were alligators everywhere there before there was a Mouse - it's their habitat.

 

 

 

I definitely agree with you concerning the gators in Florida and the gators in all of the bodies of water in Florida. I also agree that gators were at Disney long before there was a Disney and have no clue where property lines begin and end. But, we aren't talking about training alligators or holding gators accountable for their actions. We're talking about holding Disney accountable for their actions. We're talking about Disney providing the safest environment for their guests that they can possibly provide. We're talking about a beach and a lagoon that could have definitely been safer, but wasn't. Simple, Disney dropped the ball and a little boy is gone forever because of it.

[3KDZ]

Oh, I get it that we have spell things out these days. It's too bad that people can't figure out that "no swimming" means "stay out of the water" (regardless of what the reason is). Or that coffee is hot (without a specific disclaimer). Or that you're not supposed to eat laundry soap.

 

 

 

As I said, it mostly boils down to personal responsibility.

 

 

 

And, as the mother of 3 children, I'm asking, do you really think a child of 3 cares whether the sign says "no swimming" or specifically says "there are alligators here"? I doubt it. That would be the parents who should be watching out for the child's safety. I would hope they could read "no swimming" and take it to mean that.

 

 

 

I agree that spelling things out for people can and often times is aggravating. I deal with having to do it every day at work as does my wife who is a critical care nurse. I also agree that a two or three year old child, who can't read, will not care about a sign. But, I have to believe the gravity that a "Danger - Alligators in Water" sign carries over a "No Swimming" sign is not even close to comparable. I mean, one sign says to not swim while the other warns of danger or possible death. I have to believe that the posting of an alligator warning sign would have prevented Lane's parents from ever allowing him even close to the water's edge. I can't think of anyone that would go anywhere near the water with a gator warning sign present. I just want to know why Disney chose to not have alligator warnings on the signs that were already there. Why elect to not warn people of the possible danger? If the proper warnings are given and the proper precautions are taken, then personal responsibility kicks in for those that choose to ignore the clearly posted danger signs.

[CanadianDee]

A few observations

 

- surf side, Gulf and Atlantic we need similar signs which warn of sharks, rays, croc's (yep they swim in saltwater) ... and lion fish which can sting ... and and

 

 

Once more with feeling: This was not a naturally occurring body of water. It was a man-made body of water in a famous, high-profile resort hosting people from all over the world.

 

A warning of alligators would have just been due diligence.

 

And yes, no swimming means no swimming, but the death of a child isn't the price the family should have had to pay. I'm quite sure they wouldn't have let him near the water if there had been an alligator warning posted.

 

The potential saving of someone's life is surely worth a sign warning of alligators.

[Ex techie]

3KDZ,

 

To quote you:

 

We're talking about holding Disney accountable for their actions. We're talking about Disney providing the safest environment for their guests that they can possibly provide.

 

You are speaking a lot about holding Disney accountable for their actions.

I would say you should be speaking up about their inactions since that is how you feel.

 

Others are also right to express their opinion of lack of accountability on ANY parent taking their child out of state into what could be called a "foreign environment" by your standards.

 

I also think that you have held too much..... faith is the wrong word.

Maybe misguidedly handing over responsibility and ownership of your families safety to them as a brand, because ship does happen.

Even at WDW, DW, on DCL.

 

Do you know DCL had a fire on the Magic in 2002 and all Guests were mustered on deck or their emergency stations, and were around 30 minutes away from abandoning ship in lifeboats, had they not managed to get the fire under control at the last minute?

 

Much as in your life growing up, maybe you had younger siblings, then becoming an adult, and now as a young parent realizing something that had not caused you to think of it as a danger because it was 1 in a 30 million chance, and you were managing the risk constantly to keep it that low, taking preventative action to make sure that risk was as minimal as possible, and now you as a new parent feel that risk is unacceptable and take extra measures to remove that risk.

 

You cannot always protect against a 1 in 30 million risk as though it will happen 100% of the time.

 

ex techie

[3KDZ]

3KDZ,

 

 

 

To quote you:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You are speaking a lot about holding Disney accountable for their actions.

 

I would say you should be speaking up about their inactions since that is how you feel.

 

 

 

Others are also right to express their opinion of lack of accountability on ANY parent taking their child out of state into what could be called a "foreign environment" by your standards.

 

 

 

I also think that you have held too much..... faith is the wrong word.

 

Maybe misguidedly handing over responsibility and ownership of your families safety to them as a brand, because ship does happen.

 

Even at WDW, DW, on DCL.

 

 

 

Do you know DCL had a fire on the Magic in 2002 and all Guests were mustered on deck or their emergency stations, and were around 30 minutes away from abandoning ship in lifeboats, had they not managed to get the fire under control at the last minute?

 

 

 

Much as in your life growing up, maybe you had younger siblings, then becoming an adult, and now as a young parent realizing something that had not caused you to think of it as a danger because it was 1 in a 30 million chance, and you were managing the risk constantly to keep it that low, taking preventative action to make sure that risk was as minimal as possible, and now you as a new parent feel that risk is unacceptable and take extra measures to remove that risk.

 

 

 

You cannot always protect against a 1 in 30 million risk as though it will happen 100% of the time.

 

 

 

ex techie

 

 

 

Thanks for the response. Foreign environment is not a term that I have previously used. I don't consider a luxury resort a foreign environment. Do you? I think my points and opinions concerning Disney boil down to plain common sense. If Disney is operating a resort that includes alligators on the property, then Disney has a responsibility to warn their guests that gators are present on the property. Specifically, in the man made lagoon. You know, the lagoon that has water lapping up on the white sandy beach tourists are encouraged to sun bathe on and to enjoy. Can you just imagine it. Laying on the white sand, right near the waters edge. Eyes closed, half asleep after a few beers. And bam! There goes your foot. I mean come on. ***. Is a wooden sign warning of gators too much to ask for? Are you telling me that a $20 sign is too much to expect. You're going to actually argue that a sign is a BS request. I don't equate my expectation of common sense safety with misguidedly handing over my family's safety. I also can't find the parallel with a fire at sea on a Disney cruise ship with an alligator killing a child at a resort in a completely preventable situation. And no, I didn't have younger siblings growing up and no I'm not a young or new inexperienced parent who is way overprotective. At 47, I would better classify myself as cautiously sensible and pro common sense. I do agree that "ship" happens and that no one can control 1 in 30 million odds. But, that's not what we're talking about here now is it. Let me boil this down to the most simple terms possible for you. A "Danger-Alligators Present" sign. That's it. Would've been nice, right? We agree? Maybe would've saved a boy's life.

 

 

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[Ex techie]

Thanks for the response. Foreign environment is not a term that I have previously used. I don't consider a luxury resort a foreign environment. Do you? I think my points and opinions concerning Disney boil down to plain common sense. If Disney is operating a resort that includes alligators on the property, then Disney has a responsibility to warn their guests that gators are present on the property. Specifically, in the man made lagoon. You know, the lagoon that has water lapping up on the white sandy beach tourists are encouraged to sun bathe on and to enjoy. Can you just imagine it. Laying on the white sand, right near the waters edge. Eyes closed, half asleep after a few beers. And bam! There goes your foot. I mean come on. ***. Is a wooden sign warning of gators too much to ask for? Are you telling me that a $20 sign is too much to expect. You're going to actually argue that a sign is a BS request. I don't equate my expectation of common sense safety with misguidedly handing over my family's safety. I also can't find the parallel with a fire at sea on a Disney cruise ship with an alligator killing a child at a resort in a completely preventable situation. And no, I didn't have younger siblings growing up and no I'm not a young or new inexperienced parent who is way overprotective. At 47, I would better classify myself as cautiously sensible and pro common sense. I do agree that "ship" happens and that no one can control 1 in 30 million odds. But, that's not what we're talking about here now is it. Let me boil this down to the most simple terms possible for you. A "Danger-Alligators Present" sign. That's it. Would've been nice, right? We agree? Maybe would've saved a boy's life.

 

 

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I would consider a luxury resort anywhere away from my home a foreign environment.

How could a luxury resort in California be the same and have the same hazards as a luxury resort in Florida, New York, Alaska, Nebraska......

 

Just because they are all in country, does not mean they are not foreign environments to you.

Foreign does not mean fear. It can also mean different.

 

Signs.

Could they have helped? Probably yes.

 

Could they have prevented this tragedy? Maybe. Possibly.

 

But 3KDZ, how big should these signs be?

 

Should they be lighted at night?

 

Where should they be placed? On the back of your door in your room, in reception, outside the doors leading to the beach?

The beach only, or or pathways as well.

 

How far from the waters edge?

 

How frequently should these signs be posted?

Every 10 feet, every 30 feet, every 100 feet?

 

At 47, surely you have enough life experience to consider your own self reliance and protect your family?

 

ex techie

[alaskawdw12]

I would consider a luxury resort anywhere away from my home a foreign environment.

 

How could a luxury resort in California be the same and have the same hazards as a luxury resort in Florida, New York, Alaska, Nebraska......

 

 

 

Just because they are all in country, does not mean they are not foreign environments to you.

 

Foreign does not mean fear. It can also mean different.

 

 

 

Signs.

 

Could they have helped? Probably yes.

 

 

 

Could they have prevented this tragedy? Maybe. Possibly.

 

 

 

But 3KDZ, how big should these signs be?

 

 

 

Should they be lighted at night?

 

 

 

Where should they be placed? On the back of your door in your room, in reception, outside the doors leading to the beach?

 

The beach only, or or pathways as well.

 

 

 

How far from the waters edge?

 

 

 

How frequently should these signs be posted?

 

Every 10 feet, every 30 feet, every 100 feet?

 

 

 

At 47, surely you have enough life experience to consider your own self reliance and protect your family?

 

 

 

ex techie

 

 

I feel like you're working really hard to somehow find fault with the necessity of a simple sign warning of danger guests might not be aware of. On other properties in Orlando signs warning of gators exist. With a drawing of a gator because many of the people traveling to Orlando don't speak English. I've been to a hotel in Alaska where there were signs warning not to go near moose. Another hotel had signs warning that bears sometimes roam the property. If other resorts can do it, including resorts in Orlando, Disney can do it too. It's simple.

 

It is by no means "common sense" that a fake man made body of water in a luxury hotel - which has a fake beach with real beach chairs at the water's edge - is dangerous. Especially when Disney offers water skiing on that same body of water, in which you spend more time in the water than out of the water. This sends a message to the guests that the water is safe. And why shouldn't it be? It's fake! For all I know Disney is in complete control of that fake body of water, otherwise why would they let me be in it? Why would they let me stand at the edge of the water fishing? That same gator that grabbed the child from the water would have grabbed him had he been standing next to his dad at the very edge, that's how they work! And there was no sign saying that there is a dangerous wild animal present. Had there been a sign and the parents decide to disregard it or parents allowed their two year old to run around unsupervised then it would be the responsibility of the parent. The old sign on the beach was even worse, it didn't just say "no swimming", it gave a reason: steep drop (or something on those lines). Meaning, the sign warned that the reason you aren't allowed to swim is because the water becomes very deep extremely suddenly. So that means one can ostensibly stand at the edge of the water or dab one's feet in the water, because that is not where the danger lies.

 

The comparison to the fire on the Magic is ridiculous...fires happen, terror attacks happen, flash floods happen, car accidents happen. If anything, that fire actually gave DCL an opportunity to showcase how great their emergency protocol is, as all guests report things were handled smoothly and professionally. If you want to make an analogy to something that happened on a ship it should be to Liberty of the Seas which had legionnaires disease onboard and knowingly chose to only inform guests of it as they left the ship...this was a condition the company was well aware of and could have easily addressed by making all guests aware of the issue, that way allowing them to choose how they behave. Instead, they were greedy and played fast and loose with their guests' health. If the company running the show knows of a danger it's their responsibility to inform their guests. If the guest then chooses to put himself at risk - that's his problem.

 

To say a sign is to big a price to pay for the life of a two year old and the destruction of a family...I just don't get it.

[moki'smommy]

There were signs. The signs said "No Swimming." Perhaps the parents would have taken the signs more seriously had they said "Alligators Present," but if they didn't see the sign, would it have mattered what they said? If Disney had posted a wildlife warning on the check in packet papers, would that have helped or would that have fallen into the "stuff you don't bother to read" pile? So should it be noted in the check in packet, pointed out and circled in marker by each check in clerk?

 

The issue becomes the question of when enough warning is sufficient and when personal responsibility kicks in.

 

But Disney not only permits, but makes a profit from people being IN the water off the Contemporary resort--an area of water that connects to the lagoon by the Grand Flo. And we've already discussed that all water in FL can have gators. SO what makes wakeboarding, water skiing, etc. "safe?" I understand activities where people are in boats are different....but water skis are not boats. These people are IN the water...yeah the same water that the gators are in. Does it matter if it is Bay Lake or the 7 Seas Lagoon?

 

https://disneyworld.disney.go.com/recreation/contemporary-resort/sammy-duvall-watersports-centre/

[3KDZ]

I would consider a luxury resort anywhere away from my home a foreign environment.

 

How could a luxury resort in California be the same and have the same hazards as a luxury resort in Florida, New York, Alaska, Nebraska......

 

 

 

Just because they are all in country, does not mean they are not foreign environments to you.

 

Foreign does not mean fear. It can also mean different.

 

 

 

Signs.

 

Could they have helped? Probably yes.

 

 

 

Could they have prevented this tragedy? Maybe. Possibly.

 

 

 

But 3KDZ, how big should these signs be?

 

 

 

Should they be lighted at night?

 

 

 

Where should they be placed? On the back of your door in your room, in reception, outside the doors leading to the beach?

 

The beach only, or or pathways as well.

 

 

 

How far from the waters edge?

 

 

 

How frequently should these signs be posted?

 

Every 10 feet, every 30 feet, every 100 feet?

 

 

 

At 47, surely you have enough life experience to consider your own self reliance and protect your family?

 

 

 

ex techie

 

 

 

Again, common sense. Pretty simple.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[3KDZ]

There were signs. The signs said "No Swimming." Perhaps the parents would have taken the signs more seriously had they said "Alligators Present' date='" but if they didn't see the sign, would it have mattered what they said? If Disney had posted a wildlife warning on the check in packet papers, would that have helped or would that have fallen into the "stuff you don't bother to read" pile? So should it be noted in the check in packet, pointed out and circled in marker by each check in clerk?

 

 

 

The issue becomes the question of when enough warning is sufficient and when personal responsibility kicks in.

 

 

 

But Disney not only permits, but makes a profit from people being IN the water off the Contemporary resort--an area of water that connects to the lagoon by the Grand Flo. And we've already discussed that all water in FL can have gators. SO what makes wakeboarding, water skiing, etc. "safe?" I understand activities where people are in boats are different....but water skis are not boats. These people are IN the water...yeah the same water that the gators are in. Does it matter if it is Bay Lake or the 7 Seas Lagoon?

 

 

 

https://disneyworld.disney.go.com/recreation/contemporary-resort/sammy-duvall-watersports-centre/[/quote']

 

 

 

If you were at the Resort, near the water's edge and saw a sign that said "WARNING--ALLIGATORS" would you take the sign seriously? If your answer is yes, then I've made my point. If your answer is no, then that's on you.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[3KDZ]

I feel like you're working really hard to somehow find fault with the necessity of a simple sign warning of danger guests might not be aware of. On other properties in Orlando signs warning of gators exist. With a drawing of a gator because many of the people traveling to Orlando don't speak English. I've been to a hotel in Alaska where there were signs warning not to go near moose. Another hotel had signs warning that bears sometimes roam the property. If other resorts can do it, including resorts in Orlando, Disney can do it too. It's simple.

 

It is by no means "common sense" that a fake man made body of water in a luxury hotel - which has a fake beach with real beach chairs at the water's edge - is dangerous. Especially when Disney offers water skiing on that same body of water, in which you spend more time in the water than out of the water. This sends a message to the guests that the water is safe. And why shouldn't it be? It's fake! For all I know Disney is in complete control of that fake body of water, otherwise why would they let me be in it? Why would they let me stand at the edge of the water fishing? That same gator that grabbed the child from the water would have grabbed him had he been standing next to his dad at the very edge, that's how they work! And there was no sign saying that there is a dangerous wild animal present. Had there been a sign and the parents decide to disregard it or parents allowed their two year old to run around unsupervised then it would be the responsibility of the parent. The old sign on the beach was even worse, it didn't just say "no swimming", it gave a reason: steep drop (or something on those lines). Meaning, the sign warned that the reason you aren't allowed to swim is because the water becomes very deep extremely suddenly. So that means one can ostensibly stand at the edge of the water or dab one's feet in the water, because that is not where the danger lies.

 

The comparison to the fire on the Magic is ridiculous...fires happen, terror attacks happen, flash floods happen, car accidents happen. If anything, that fire actually gave DCL an opportunity to showcase how great their emergency protocol is, as all guests report things were handled smoothly and professionally. If you want to make an analogy to something that happened on a ship it should be to Liberty of the Seas which had legionnaires disease onboard and knowingly chose to only inform guests of it as they left the ship...this was a condition the company was well aware of and could have easily addressed by making all guests aware of the issue, that way allowing them to choose how they behave. Instead, they were greedy and played fast and loose with their guests' health. If the company running the show knows of a danger it's their responsibility to inform their guests. If the guest then chooses to put himself at risk - that's his problem.

 

To say a sign is to big a price to pay for the life of a two year old and the destruction of a family...I just don't get it.

 

 

 

Extremely well said!

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[e2011]

Moderator, time to lock this thread.

[cruzin Phillis]

It will have no effect whatsoever except for one thing, what I call DSDS (Disney Safety Derangement Syndrome).

 

Based purely on reputation, people have this perception that nothing bad can happen at Disney parks (or on cruise ships for that matter) and therefore do things they would not normally do anywhere else on the planet. Just look at what people leave on unattended strollers for example, or the 'my kid is on a ship, where could they go' attitudes I am sure people have seen.

 

This incident may prompt some people to be more diligent, but most people already knew that it probably wasn't a good idea to go near dark water marked no swimming in Florida...

 

(I do feel bad for the parents, but I reserve the right to comment upon a lack of common sense)

That is a good point!!