"What if" Questions about Missing Ship & Insurance

[StanandJim]

I believe that what has changed is the cruise line's willingness to pass the fine on to the passenger. In the example you are debating, yes, there was carriage between US ports as proscribed by the PVSA, it does not have to be direct from one US port to the other.

 

The cruise line, even 15 years ago, would have been fined by CBP for the violation. This is the important part; the company is liable for the fine, not the passenger. It is only by agreeing to the ticket contract that you give the cruise line the ability to pass the fine to you. In the past, the lines were more lenient in not passing the fine on, and even today, if there is some reason outside the cruise line's control, they can apply for an exemption. An example is a California coastal cruise that only has one foregin port call in Mexico. If the ship cannot make the port call due to weather, they can get an exemption for the thousands of passengers they would be fined for. Even missed port calls due to mechanical issues can be exempted. If a winter cruise has lots of people who have flights cancelled and have to join late, the cruise line will be fined, but will generally not pass the fine along.

 

May I remind you of the precedent of the Furness Bermuda and Home Lines each of which operated for multiple decades, during the term of the PVSA, from the Northeastern United States, solely to what would now be considered "non-far-distant" ports?

Obviously, something has gone awry with the interpretation of the Act, since then.

Edited June 29, 2016 by StanandJim

[chengkp75]

May I remind you of the precedent of the Furness Bermuda and Home Lines each of which operated for multiple decades, during the term of the PVSA, from the Northeastern United States, solely to what would now be considered "non-far-distant" ports?

Obviously, something has gone awry with the interpretation of the Act, since then.

 

I am not familiar with either line, but a quick check of Furness Burmuda gives me the impression that they were operating "closed loop" cruises originating and ending in the same US port, in this case NYC, which is allowed by PVSA with only a call at any foreign port, in this case Bermuda. Was Home Lines operating "open jaw" cruises? I can see no evidence of them doing other than "closed loop" cruises.

 

The "far distant port" requirement applies only to "open jaw" cruises that begin and end in different US ports. "Closed loop" cruises need only call at any foreign port. Closed loop cruises are not considered to be "transportation between US ports", since you are returning to your original port.

 

And in your post #22, you misunderstand the PVSA. There was indeed carriage of a passenger "between US ports", since the passenger was transported between Key West and Miami. The carriage does not need to be direct.

 

And in fact, the act has been modified in 1988, roughly, to allow the wording of "permanent disembarkation" to be added. This allows foreign cruise ships to call at multiple US ports, since a narrow interpretation of the Act would preclude anyone boarding in Miami to get off the ship at any other US port, as you would have been "transported" to this port. This change recognizes the existence of "port calls" where passengers have no intention of leaving the ship permanently.

Edited June 29, 2016 by chengkp75

[GeezerCouple]

May I remind you of the precedent of the Furness Bermuda and Home Lines each of which operated for multiple decades, during the term of the PVSA, from the Northeastern United States, solely to what would now be considered "non-far-distant" ports?

Obviously, something has gone awry with the interpretation of the Act, since then.

 

From which two *different* USA ports did either of these cruiselines have passengers embarking/disembarking?

 

If the cruises were always NYC-Bermuda-NYC (or BOS-Bermuda-BOS), then these are no different from the current sailings to/from the same "Northeastern United States" ports and Bermuda currently offered on more than one non-USA-flagged cruiseline.

Edited June 29, 2016 by GeezerCouple
added word "ports" after "Northeaster United States"

[PSULion]

I have arrived early and have flown in the same "day". If I fly in the same day (usually because of work restrictions), I usually try to take the earliest red eye (flying west coast to Miami usually) flight and arrive early in the morning. Usually there is a later red eye flight leaving, so if there is a cancellation of the earlier red eye, then I can buy a ticket on the later flight. So far it has worked well. If I have to take a red eye, I will only schedule a direct flight to Miami and will not fly through a cold weather climate in the winter time (i.e. Chicago or Denver, etc.).

 

 

John

[Wendy The Wanderer]

This discussion seems to have degenerated into a pedantic argument about the intricacies of the PVSA. Boring.

 

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It annoys me a bit that O doesn't offer a day early flight as part of their regular arrangements since I know they do have to deal with some who are delayed.

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Me too. This goes for Regent as well, and presumably other lines. It's just a cash cow for them, why should they change it?

 

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I believe Viking Oceans allows you to pay a deviation fee to go out a day early to the embarkation port. However, for the few cruises that include air in the cruise price, I don't believe they give a credit if you want to decline the air and make your own arrangements. Everyone's different, I guess.

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Both Oceania and Regent do. Give you a credit for unused air. And yes, they all "allow you" to pay a deviation fee, a fee that has climbed and climbed over the years.