Question:Does Cunard own the name White Star Line?

[Cruise Liner Fan]

I know that this New York Times article is from 17 years ago but the man in this article James Korn claims that he owns the names White Star Line and Titanic in the USA. He owns a uniform store in Midtown Manhattan on West 42nd Street across from the Port Authority Bus Terminal and in this store he also sells Titanic t-shirts and sweat shirts and I think White Star Line t-shirts and sweat shirts. In the late 1990s he took 20th Century Fox which was the movie studio that made the feature film Titanic and RMS Titanic Inc. which is the company that owns the rights to go to the Titanic wreck site in the North Atlantic to dive to the wreck and bring up artifacts from inside and around the Titanic to put on display at shows around the world. Anyway as I said Mr. Korn in the late 1990s took 20th Century Fox and RMS Titanic Inc. to court claiming that both companies owed him royalties because both Fox and RMS Titanic Inc. sold t-shirts with the name Titanic on them and he owns the trademark on the names Titanic and White Star Line. Fox claimed that the t-shirts they were selling were relative to their movie and RMS Titanic Inc. claimed that they believe that no one should own the name Titanic. Mr. Korn's case was thrown out of court. In the article it says that Cunard owned the White Star Line but that is wrong because Cunard did not own the White Star Line at the time of the Titanic's one and only tragic voyage and Cunard and the White Star Line merger happened in 1934, 22 years after the Titanic tragedy. Any opinions? And I have seen Cunard use the White Star Line name and logo which is the red pennant with the White Star on it on some brochures. Here is the link to the NY Times article http://www.nytimes.com/1999/02/11/nyregion/ship-movie-trademark-case-producer-titanic-buff-dispute-commercial-use-famed.html Regards,Jerry

Edited September 8, 2016 by Cruise Liner Fan

[MarkBearSF]

I think the fact that his claim was denied by the courts says it all. Yes Cunard does own the rights to White Star Line.

[BlueRiband]

The intricacies of US trademark law are best left to those with professional expertise in this area. But his lawsuit probably gained him far more publicity than he could ever afford to buy.

[MarkBearSF]

The intricacies of US trademark law are best left to those with professional expertise in this area. But his lawsuit probably gained him far more publicity than he could ever afford to buy.

 

Well said!

 

Mark

[john watson]

My understanding of the situation is that the sinking of the Titanic led to the White Star Lines demise. At some point after their decline Cunard purchased the company which would include all the assets of the pre-existing company. Presumably these included reserved names and other items associated with running a shipping line which White Star owned the rights.

 

 

In the general business world people register trademarks and names, not always world-wide. Sometimes regional and world-wide names will give rise to disputes as does trying to register a word from the English language as exclusive for your companies use only and then for example saying nobody can use the word titanic. Sometime businesses try to exclude the use in a particular context for example, a vessels name. The International Olympic Committee have objected to the name of the "Marathon" chocolate bar and had it changed. The new name "Snickers" I believe is the name of one of the manager's pet horse and not used anywhere else, therefore one could register international exclusive use of this term without dispute easily.

 

Regards John

[Cruise Liner Fan]

Another question I have to ask is since the Cunard Line owns the trademark on the name White Star Line, Doesn't Mr. Korn owe royalties to Cunard since he is selling t-shirts with the name White Star Line printed on them? Regards,Jerry

[BlueRiband]

Another question I have to ask is since the Cunard Line owns the trademark on the name White Star Line, Doesn't Mr. Korn owe royalties to Cunard since he is selling t-shirts with the name White Star Line printed on them? Regards,Jerry

 

He probably does. But trademark owners have to decide if pursuing infringement is worth their trouble. If a small street vendor is doing it, they might ignore it or not even be aware it's being done. (Popup hat and t-shirt vendors appear near Yankee Stadium on game days with counterfeit Yankees trademark merchandise.) But if the counterfeit merchandise grows into a business that undercuts the genuine articles then it gets the owner's attention. (As in the huge businesses selling counterfeit versions of high end handbags.)

[Host Hattie]

My understanding of the situation is that the sinking of the Titanic led to the White Star Lines demise. At some point after their decline Cunard purchased the company which would include all the assets of the pre-existing company. Presumably these included reserved names and other items associated with running a shipping line which White Star owned the rights.

 

 

 

The White Star Line survived until 1934 and merged with Cunard when they were both in financial difficulties during the depression.

[Bigmike911]

And for some period of time after the merger, the Company was known as Cunard White Star Line. The White Star name was discontinued in 1958 according to the all knowing wikipedia.

[keithm]

The intricacies of US trademark law are best left to those with professional expertise in this area. But his lawsuit probably gained him far more publicity than he could ever afford to buy.

The goof ball's last name is "Korn" I guess that says it all.

[3rdGenCunarder]

And for some period of time after the merger, the Company was known as Cunard White Star Line. The White Star name was discontinued in 1958 according to the all knowing wikipedia.

 

And isn't it funny how they suddenly started making references to White Star after the "Titanic" movie came out? White Star luggage service, "You're a Star" cards, etc. :rolleyes:

[Cruise Liner Fan]

And isn't it funny how they suddenly started making references to White Star after the "Titanic" movie came out? White Star luggage service, "You're a Star" cards, etc. :rolleyes:

 

But it was due to the popularity of that movie that I do believe that Carnival Corp. bought the Cunard Line to build the Queen Mary 2 and then the Queen Victoria and Queen Elizabeth and there were newspaper articles claiming that there were surges in people booking transatlantic crossings aboard the then in service QE2 in 1998 and surges for cruise bookings aboard other Cruise Ships again after that movie was released. So even though that movie does have historical flaws in it, I do believe it helped the Cunard Line and other Cruise Ship companies financially speaking :) Regards,Jerry

[canoncruiser]

According to Mickey Arison, there was a sharp uptick in interest in TA travel on QE2 after “Titanic” came out. After Carnival bought Cunard he called in Stephen Payne and tasked him with sorting out whether continuing a TA service with a ship built for that service was economically possible.

The White Star Line was successful because its ships were innovative in style, comfort and service; for much of the late 19th and early 20th centuries it was beating Cunard about the head and ears as were the German lines, esp. HAPAG.

The Olympic class was designed to seal its superiority-Aquitania was a direct response to the Olympic threat-much more luxurious than Mauritania and Lusitania, though slower.

Real trouble for White Star came when Lord Kylsant got his hands on White Star and ultimately was found to have destroyed the finances of his shipping combine by fraudulent manipulation.

Remember White Star laid down a 1000ft. ship in 1928 at Harland & Wolf.

The Depression and fraud did in both Cunard and White Star and they were forced to merge as a condition of government support. Hence Cunard White Star.

[canoncruiser]

Nearly forget, In Liverpool the old White Star office building is now a very pricey hotel called 30 James Street(its address) and the White Star burgee flies outside. The rooms recall White Star ships etc.

So the White Star name is used by Cunard to distinguish its style and service; I don not know whether it is Trademarked.

My grandparents had friends who would always choose White Star.

[Cruise Liner Fan]

According to Mickey Arison, there was a sharp uptick in interest in TA travel on QE2 after “Titanic” came out. After Carnival bought Cunard he called in Stephen Payne and tasked him with sorting out whether continuing a TA service with a ship built for that service was economically possible.

The White Star Line was successful because its ships were innovative in style, comfort and service; for much of the late 19th and early 20th centuries it was beating Cunard about the head and ears as were the German lines, esp. HAPAG.

The Olympic class was designed to seal its superiority-Aquitania was a direct response to the Olympic threat-much more luxurious than Mauritania and Lusitania, though slower.

Real trouble for White Star came when Lord Kylsant got his hands on White Star and ultimately was found to have destroyed the finances of his shipping combine by fraudulent manipulation.

Remember White Star laid down a 1000ft. ship in 1928 at Harland & Wolf.

The Depression and fraud did in both Cunard and White Star and they were forced to merge as a condition of government support. Hence Cunard White Star.

 

Yes I do remember reading that in the late 1920s at the Harland & Wolff Shipyard in Belfast,Northern Ireland that the keel for the first White Star Line Ship to be over 1,000 feet long and named Oceanic was laid down. But then due to the depression the Oceanic could not be finished and the Oceanic's keel was used in the construction of the last 2 White Star Line Ships built the Britannic and Georgic. Both Ships would be smaller than the Oceanic would have been had she have been built and then in 1934 came the Cunard-White Star Line merger. Regards,Jerry