Prices rocketing in the U.K.

[steamboats]

So, is it other countries customs not to tip? Just curious about customs?

 

Australians and Brits are not used to tip like you Americans. Same for us Germans. Let´s say for a drink or two we might tip 1 Euro or 2 but no 18% per drink! And we´re used that the price quoted does include everything especially the VAT. Over here a price tag tells you what you really have to pay.

 

steamboats

[troykahack]

Australians and Brits are not used to tip like you Americans. Same for us Germans. Let´s say for a drink or two we might tip 1 Euro or 2 but no 18% per drink! And we´re used that the price quoted does include everything especially the VAT. Over here a price tag tells you what you really have to pay.

 

steamboats

 

Thank you for that info.

 

We (me) generally tip at least 20% for a meal, a bit less for substandard service, sometimes more for exceptional service.

 

For a $4-8 beer, probably a $1.

 

Employers typically pay those in service like waiters and bartenders less than rate as they consider tips to be part of their compensation.

 

Does employers in countries that seem not to tip or tip less, pay the employees more? Do employees for Royal that work in a position to receive a tip, in areas of the world that tips less, have a different salary base??

 

Here is the reason I ask. I play in the Casino a lot and often many European's work the Casino. On last two cruises, we had a good handful of British chaps working. They seemed to be very happy to be on a US based ship. They mentioned it was like a bonus to work on a US based ship and a prized job for Europeans in the cruise services industry.

 

Thank you for your candor.

[Tin can]

Thank you for that info.

 

We (me) generally tip at least 20% for a meal, a bit less for substandard service, sometimes more for exceptional service.

 

For a $4-8 beer, probably a $1.

 

Employers typically pay those in service like waiters and bartenders less than rate as they consider tips to be part of their compensation.

 

Does employers in countries that seem not to tip or tip less, pay the employees more? Do employees for Royal that work in a position to receive a tip, in areas of the world that tips less, have a different salary base??

 

Here is the reason I ask. I play in the Casino a lot and often many European's work the Casino. On last two cruises, we had a good handful of British chaps working. They seemed to be very happy to be on a US based ship. They mentioned it was like a bonus to work on a US based ship and a prized job for Europeans in the cruise services industry.

 

Thank you for your candor.

 

To answer one of your questions from a UK perspective

 

Service workers in the UK are guaranteed a minimum rate per hour under our 'National Minimum Rate' which by law employees have to pay. It isn't much, I think £7.20 per hour so at todays exchange rate roughly $9 an hour.

 

Tipping here (UK) in restaurants is fairly common but in bars quite rare.

[troykahack]

To answer one of your questions from a UK perspective

 

Service workers in the UK are guaranteed a minimum rate per hour under our 'National Minimum Rate' which by law employees have to pay. It isn't much, I think £7.20 per hour so at todays exchange rate roughly $9 an hour.

 

Tipping here (UK) in restaurants is fairly common but in bars quite rare.

 

Thank you.

 

US Federal Minimum Wage is $7.25 but only $2.13 for those in the service industry (those that receive tips). Many State laws supersede this rate and employees are paid more. $7.25 an hour is like $14,500 a year.

 

My SO as well as her family are from European Countries. She gave me a perspective of how/why tipping or giving something extra was done, and how customs are different. She once had recipients of her service provide Chickens, Cheese, Fruits, Goat Milk, for services rendered. It was explained to me that transfers of cash were often considered "bribes". Bribes were the way people got things, got in front of the lines, first in line for food, clothing, and so on. So, tipping with cash, is often frowned upon. Doesn't know if this is now true but was the way in many Eastern Euporean Countries up to 1989. Mostly Eastern Block Countries.

 

Honestly, she often tells me I am TOO generous with my tipping. Not saying her analogy is right or perfect, but does it make any sense?

 

Still would like to know if Royal workers in Service Area (those that receive tips) are compensated more for working in those Ports that seem to tip less??

 

Is service less in countries that tip less or the same??

[steamboats]

Here in Germany waiters have to get the minimum wage of 8.50 Euro too. In the meantime we tend to tip at least 10 % in a restaurant. But usually you only round it up like the bill is 43.50 you give 45 Euro. Most people give less than 10%.

 

On the cruise ships waiters, cabin stewards do get a very low minimum - the main part of their income are the gratuities (that´s why I never change the suggested automated gratuity). That basic wage can be as low as 50$ per month.

 

The bar tenders are getting a little more but also participate in the pool of the 18 % automatic service charge. Same for the Spa staff.

 

Everyone else - who´s not typically tipped - does get an appropriate salary.

 

Many German cruisers who did not read the fine print or who did not inform themselves prior to the cruise are surpriesed when a daily automated gratuity is showing up on their onboard account. Cruise lines focusing on the German market like TUI Cruises, AIDA and some smaller ones do not have that automated gratuity system but include all tips. By the end of the cruise there are big boxes at the reception desk where you can leave some extra tip (or give it directly to your cabin steward, waiter...).

 

steamboats

[ColoradoGurl]

Nobody ever gives me any cookies [emoji22]

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Forums

[pspercy]

what is the 18% service charge? We pay gratuities of 18% on all drink orders but it is a tip for us, not a service charge???

 

10% VAT.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Value-added_tax

Edited November 5, 2016 by pspercy

[troykahack]

10% VAT.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Value-added_tax

 

I think VAT is some TAX paid in certain European Ports. I assume this is dictated by some form of Government. Where does the TAX go? Does it go to those in the Service Industry???

 

Do you feel one gets better service in areas that don't tip???

 

We are cruising the Med next year and are curious about the Service level. Do the Service workers know we are from the US before we board?? Are we more likely to get better service because it is customary for us to Tip??

 

If you felt you might get better service if you Tip, would you tip if you don't normally???

Edited November 5, 2016 by troykahack

[troykahack]

I just noticed that the Bahamas charge a VAT but those on cruises are excluded. Not sure if it is US only or ships based in US Ports. It shows up on our receipt but is removed before final charging. Is everyone required to pay VAT in European ports??

Edited November 5, 2016 by troykahack

[steamboats]

VAT is value added tax and it goes to the state. You pay VAT on all goods and services. It´s no specialty for European ports. You pay VAT on land also. But as we do have the VAT included in the tagged price you don´t realize it. It´s just the cruise lines which add it up to the "price tag". Onboard you have to pay it on everything - drinks, spa services, specialty restaurants fees, all purchases in shop.

 

There´s a regular VAT which is 21% in Spain (in UK it´s 25%, in Germany 19%). And there´s a reduced VAT of 10% in Spain (in Germany it´s 7%). The reduced VAT basically applies to daily needs especially all food and drinks.

 

As an example: When you buy a drink onboard or book a specialty restaurant you have to pay the reduced VAT of 10%. When you buy a T-shirt in the onboard shops you pay 21% VAT.

 

As for cruises: The VAT applies to all cruises starting in an EU port which don´t have a non-EU port on the itinerary. On those cruises you pay the VAT throughout the whole cruise whether in port or at sea. The Western Med itinerary out of Barcelona (Palma de Mallorca, Marseilles, La Spezia, Civitavecchia, Naples) does not have a non-EU port. So you pay throughout the whole cruise. The VAT rate depends on the country of the starting point of the cruise. In my example it´s Barcelona and therefore the Spanish VAT rate. The Harmony had two cruises out of Southampton which had no non-EU port - British VAT applied to these cruises. Then there was the Southampton - Barcelona cruise - also British VAT (although I think they charged the Spanish VAT rate but that was wrong). Short trip from Hamburg to Southampton on the QM2 - German VAT rate.

 

It´s a European law. There´s one specialty of Spain: They want the VAT charged for all Spain port visits too. So if your cruise has one Spanish port you pay the VAT as soon as you enter the 3 mile zone until you leave the 3 mile zone of this port. Example: Oasis TA 2014 - starting port was Fort Lauderdale (definitely non-EU ;-)). Only port of call was Malaga in Spain. We had to pay the Spanish VAT as soon as we entered the 3 mile zone of Malaga (usually about 1 hour til docking/1 hour after leaving port). Then there was another day at sea - no VAT. The cruise ended in Barcelona - VAT starting an hour prior to docking.

 

In the Eastern Med (cruises starting basically in Italy or Greece) you usually don´t pay any VAT as the itineraries do have a Turkish port which is non-EU.

 

Other non-EU ports (regarding VAT) are Guernsey, Gibraltar, Canary Islands.

 

steamboats

[sky0000547]

Tipping here (UK) in restaurants is fairly common but in bars quite rare.

 

 

And even when we do tip, it is nowhere near 18-20%.

[kernow]

We are cruising the Med next year and are curious about the Service level. Do the Service workers know we are from the US before we board?? Are we more likely to get better service because it is customary for us to Tip??

 

If you felt you might get better service if you Tip, would you tip if you don't normally???

 

Are you talking about the standard gratuities or extra tips on top of this?

 

We always pre pay the gratuities and I think most Europeans either do the same or leave them added to the daily account. Most European cruise lines also have these (MSC, Costa, P and O) although they may call them a service charge and they are not removeable.

 

I don't think you'll find any difference in service levels on ships in Europe versus ships in the US, most regular cruisers know the system and take the 'when in Rome' attitude.

 

If you are talking about extra cash tips, we often give them when we get great service. I think the only difference maybe is that we would never tip upfront, as some Americans seem to do, but at the end of the cruise when the service has been received.

 

Julie

[Missus Makkem]

VAT or value added tax is up to 20% in UK

Starts at zero on things like Children's clothes [so if you fit into small sizes buy them as they are 20% cheaper,I buy kids socks.]

Then there is another % on fuel and 20% on some foodstuffs, washing powder and meals eaten in house restaurants

If you look at our Bakeries for example that have a cafe attached there is one price to eat in and another to take away.

But as has been said for a meal the VAT is in the price it should show on your receipt as it will on goods bought at a Supermarket.

[Dr.A]

And even when we do tip, it is nowhere near 18-20%.

 

Exactly. I usually tip 10% max for exceptional service (in the U.K.) Zero tip for normal service, I.e. Having my order taken, food delivered and drinks brought to the table.

I've never met anyone who tips in bars here. Or hairdressers, housekeeping at hotels or anywhere else. I might round up the taxi fare to £10 if the meter says £9.80.

[troykahack]

VAT is value added tax and it goes to the state. You pay VAT on all goods and services. It´s no specialty for European ports. You pay VAT on land also. But as we do have the VAT included in the tagged price you don´t realize it. It´s just the cruise lines which add it up to the "price tag". Onboard you have to pay it on everything - drinks, spa services, specialty restaurants fees, all purchases in shop.

 

There´s a regular VAT which is 21% in Spain (in UK it´s 25%, in Germany 19%). And there´s a reduced VAT of 10% in Spain (in Germany it´s 7%). The reduced VAT basically applies to daily needs especially all food and drinks.

 

As an example: When you buy a drink onboard or book a specialty restaurant you have to pay the reduced VAT of 10%. When you buy a T-shirt in the onboard shops you pay 21% VAT.

 

As for cruises: The VAT applies to all cruises starting in an EU port which don´t have a non-EU port on the itinerary. On those cruises you pay the VAT throughout the whole cruise whether in port or at sea. The Western Med itinerary out of Barcelona (Palma de Mallorca, Marseilles, La Spezia, Civitavecchia, Naples) does not have a non-EU port. So you pay throughout the whole cruise. The VAT rate depends on the country of the starting point of the cruise. In my example it´s Barcelona and therefore the Spanish VAT rate. The Harmony had two cruises out of Southampton which had no non-EU port - British VAT applied to these cruises. Then there was the Southampton - Barcelona cruise - also British VAT (although I think they charged the Spanish VAT rate but that was wrong). Short trip from Hamburg to Southampton on the QM2 - German VAT rate.

 

It´s a European law. There´s one specialty of Spain: They want the VAT charged for all Spain port visits too. So if your cruise has one Spanish port you pay the VAT as soon as you enter the 3 mile zone until you leave the 3 mile zone of this port. Example: Oasis TA 2014 - starting port was Fort Lauderdale (definitely non-EU ;-)). Only port of call was Malaga in Spain. We had to pay the Spanish VAT as soon as we entered the 3 mile zone of Malaga (usually about 1 hour til docking/1 hour after leaving port). Then there was another day at sea - no VAT. The cruise ended in Barcelona - VAT starting an hour prior to docking.

 

In the Eastern Med (cruises starting basically in Italy or Greece) you usually don´t pay any VAT as the itineraries do have a Turkish port which is non-EU.

 

Other non-EU ports (regarding VAT) are Guernsey, Gibraltar, Canary Islands.

 

steamboats

 

Great explanation. Thank you

 

Looks like our Med cruise out of Spain is going to cost more.

[troykahack]

Are you talking about the standard gratuities or extra tips on top of this?

 

We always pre pay the gratuities and I think most Europeans either do the same or leave them added to the daily account. Most European cruise lines also have these (MSC, Costa, P and O) although they may call them a service charge and they are not removeable.

 

I don't think you'll find any difference in service levels on ships in Europe versus ships in the US, most regular cruisers know the system and take the 'when in Rome' attitude.

 

If you are talking about extra cash tips, we often give them when we get great service. I think the only difference maybe is that we would never tip upfront, as some Americans seem to do, but at the end of the cruise when the service has been received.

 

Julie

 

Thank you.

 

We don't pre tip above the prepaid gratuities but after great service is rendered. I typically tip some above the built in for specialty restaurants and often a $1 in cash over for a drink that has built in gratuity. I find the bartenders remember my drink and I generally get the feeling better service over the course of the cruise. We tip our cabin steward the last evening.

 

We have on occasion tipped a service provider a little during the cruise for exceptional service. We often eats dinner in our cabin on formal nights and almost always tip our server.

[ColoradoGurl]

Thank you!! That was a really good explanation and completely helped me understand the whole VAT thing!

 

 

VAT is value added tax and it goes to the state. You pay VAT on all goods and services. It´s no specialty for European ports. You pay VAT on land also. But as we do have the VAT included in the tagged price you don´t realize it. It´s just the cruise lines which add it up to the "price tag". Onboard you have to pay it on everything - drinks, spa services, specialty restaurants fees, all purchases in shop.

 

There´s a regular VAT which is 21% in Spain (in UK it´s 25%, in Germany 19%). And there´s a reduced VAT of 10% in Spain (in Germany it´s 7%). The reduced VAT basically applies to daily needs especially all food and drinks.

 

As an example: When you buy a drink onboard or book a specialty restaurant you have to pay the reduced VAT of 10%. When you buy a T-shirt in the onboard shops you pay 21% VAT.

 

As for cruises: The VAT applies to all cruises starting in an EU port which don´t have a non-EU port on the itinerary. On those cruises you pay the VAT throughout the whole cruise whether in port or at sea. The Western Med itinerary out of Barcelona (Palma de Mallorca, Marseilles, La Spezia, Civitavecchia, Naples) does not have a non-EU port. So you pay throughout the whole cruise. The VAT rate depends on the country of the starting point of the cruise. In my example it´s Barcelona and therefore the Spanish VAT rate. The Harmony had two cruises out of Southampton which had no non-EU port - British VAT applied to these cruises. Then there was the Southampton - Barcelona cruise - also British VAT (although I think they charged the Spanish VAT rate but that was wrong). Short trip from Hamburg to Southampton on the QM2 - German VAT rate.

 

It´s a European law. There´s one specialty of Spain: They want the VAT charged for all Spain port visits too. So if your cruise has one Spanish port you pay the VAT as soon as you enter the 3 mile zone until you leave the 3 mile zone of this port. Example: Oasis TA 2014 - starting port was Fort Lauderdale (definitely non-EU ;-)). Only port of call was Malaga in Spain. We had to pay the Spanish VAT as soon as we entered the 3 mile zone of Malaga (usually about 1 hour til docking/1 hour after leaving port). Then there was another day at sea - no VAT. The cruise ended in Barcelona - VAT starting an hour prior to docking.

 

In the Eastern Med (cruises starting basically in Italy or Greece) you usually don´t pay any VAT as the itineraries do have a Turkish port which is non-EU.

 

Other non-EU ports (regarding VAT) are Guernsey, Gibraltar, Canary Islands.

 

steamboats

 

 

 

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Forums

[crosby99]

I'll complex this even more....the standard rate of VAT in the U.k. is 20% not 25%. However various products carry lower amounts called reduced rate 5% and zero rate plus various products are exempt from VAT.

Most but not all food in the U.K. do not carry VAT but having a meal in a restaurant does. However food is complex e.g. cereal is zero rated but cereal bar is standard rate & chocolate is standard rate but a cake(including a jaffa cake) is zero rated.

Transport is zero rated and to my understanding this includes a cruise or air travel. However the are various duties. Plus also zero rates only exist in some EU countries.

The products bought on a ship are subject to VAT if only travelling to a E.U. port but the actual cost of your cruise contains no VAT if bought in the u.k to my understanding.

[besberry]

Are you talking about the standard gratuities or extra tips on top of this?

 

We always pre pay the gratuities and I think most Europeans either do the same or leave them added to the daily account. Most European cruise lines also have these (MSC, Costa, P and O) although they may call them a service charge and they are not removeable.

 

I don't think you'll find any difference in service levels on ships in Europe versus ships in the US, most regular cruisers know the system and take the 'when in Rome' attitude.

 

If you are talking about extra cash tips, we often give them when we get great service. I think the only difference maybe is that we would never tip upfront, as some Americans seem to do, but at the end of the cruise when the service has been received.

 

Julie

You can certainly ask guest services on board P&O to remove auto tips. I don't, but people do. What's more the drink prices on P&O are reasonable (think London pub prices) and NO 'service charge' added either.

[kernow]

You can certainly ask guest services on board P&O to remove auto tips. I don't, but people do. What's more the drink prices on P&O are reasonable (think London pub prices) and NO 'service charge' added either.

 

Yes, you are correct, you can remove them on P and O, but definitely not on MSC. I haven't been on Costa for a while but I think they are mandatory there too.

 

I agree drinks are much cheaper on P and O but I think measures are often smaller. My 'cruise' drink is a Cosmo, I think it cost £4.95 on P and O last year but was served in a smaller glass and was weaker than those that cost around $9 on RCL.

 

I think you will always find people on both sides of the Atlantic that remove the auto tips when they can, but I like to think that the majority do not.

 

Julie

[steamboats]

Sorry about the UK VAT. I thought it was 25% but you definitely know it better. I remember it was a bit more complicated regarding reduced rates than in Germany.

 

steamboats

[troykahack]

Ok I am confused??? We are US traveling to Spain for Western 7 day Freedom Sep 2017, Presidents Cruise. We buy drink packages with built in 18% gratuity. Will there be additional VAT taxes added to our account??? If so, may we refuse to pay them? Where does VAT tax go, what or who is it used for. Bahamas has a VAT tax but not charged to passengers from US based ships. How does this differ??

[miketingle]

Exactly. I usually tip 10% max for exceptional service (in the U.K.) Zero tip for normal service, I.e. Having my order taken, food delivered and drinks brought to the table.

I've never met anyone who tips in bars here. Or hairdressers, housekeeping at hotels or anywhere else. I might round up the taxi fare to £10 if the meter says £9.80.

 

Agree a 100%, what I cant understand about the whole tipping/service charge question is why when a poor service is received by someone the standard tip or service charge is still given.

How will the service provider learn that something is wrong?

[miketingle]

Ok I am confused??? We are US traveling to Spain for Western 7 day Freedom Sep 2017, Presidents Cruise. We buy drink packages with built in 18% gratuity. Will there be additional VAT taxes added to our account??? If so, may we refuse to pay them? Where does VAT tax go, what or who is it used for. Bahamas has a VAT tax but not charged to passengers from US based ships. How does this differ??

 

The V.A.T goes to the Spanish government.

[kernow]

Ok I am confused??? We are US traveling to Spain for Western 7 day Freedom Sep 2017, Presidents Cruise. We buy drink packages with built in 18% gratuity. Will there be additional VAT taxes added to our account??? If so, may we refuse to pay them? Where does VAT tax go, what or who is it used for. Bahamas has a VAT tax but not charged to passengers from US based ships. How does this differ??

 

You cannot refuse to pay VAT, it is a sales tax similar to your state taxes and everyone who purchases something has to pay it. It goes to the government. If you purchase your drink package onboard it will be added in addition to the gratuity. If you pre purchase the price you pay will have the tax already included.

 

Nearly everything you purchase in any EU country will have VAT included in the price, the difference from the US is that all retail prices are supposed to be the final price with tax included. I've always wondered how the ships can charge a price plus tax, I don't think that is really within EU law. I have a retail business in the UK and would not be allowed to display prices plus tax.

 

 

As a non EU citizen you can reclaim VAT on purchases over a certain amount from certain shops, this explains more

 

https://www.gov.uk/tax-on-shopping/taxfree-shopping

 

Julie