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Grand injured

PonyPair

By PonyPair,
in Princess Cruises

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chengkp75

chengkp75

Posted
Posted

Okay, it seems that they carry over the "boot top" color from the outside of the hull to the tender platform, and while the Emerald's cylinders are white, it appears the Grands' were the aqua color. There is about 2 feet from the inner surface of the platform to the inner bulkhead when stowed, it appears, and the ram is 8-10" in diameter. It wouldn't be fun doing work in there, especially when you've leaked hydraulic oil around disconnecting things. If someone had been in there when the door fell, they most would not have stayed with the ship!

 

As for the ram end, as I said, the smaller diameter section is typically threaded, and the eye that hinges to the platform threads on this, and also usually has a set screw or cross pin to hold it once threaded on. This is the white piece seen at the end of the ram in the Emerald photo, and you can see the silver hinge pin between the ram end and the platform. If the ram cylinder were to fail, it would fail at the change in cross sectional area, where the smaller threaded part becomes the larger smooth cylinder surface. Neither ram shows this failure.

 

Can't comment about the strange color of the one ram.

 

Hydraulic lines and fittings on ships are usually stainless steel, and since stainless does not require the protection of paint, and does not accept paint easily, they are commonly left bare.

 

If the closing cylinders were not attached, which it appears to me at least that they weren't, as witnessed by the bare ends of the rams, then the door could have fallen. I'm also not sure why the rams were extended, since they would be retracted in the closed position. If they were being connected, and needed to be retracted, they could have powered up the hydraulics, and instead of retracting the close cylinders they retracted the lock cylinders, opening them. The handles are usually next to each other, and if the operator was watching the cylinders to see when they were in the right position, and watching the worker's hands near the cylinders, they may have used the wrong lever.

 

And as I said, it appears that at least one of the three hinges has partially failed, you can see the pin twisted slightly out of parallel with the hull.

 

I just don't see a "failure" happening like this. I don't see a lot of failure evident on the equipment. If this was caused during maintenance and repair, then its a systemic problem. This kind of job needs to have had serious "toolbox" safety meetings before work was started, job hazard analysis done prior to the toolbox meeting to identify risks and things that could go wrong, and proper "lockout/tagout" procedures to prevent any unforeseen actions happening. This could have been done by contractors brought on before shipyard, but it is still the ship's responsibility to ensure that 3rd party workers follow the above safety measures, if that is the company's policy, which it should be under ISM.

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chengkp75

chengkp75

Posted
Posted

Root cause analysis of this incident will most likely reveal a classic "swiss cheese" causality. Every piece of Swiss cheese (maintenance project) has holes (errors or failures) in it. So long as the holes don't all line up, you are okay. It is the purpose of job safety analysis to try to keep all the holes from lining up, since if just one is out of alignment, you can't poke the skewer all the way through the cheese.

 

It will be interesting to read the USCG incident report on this. I'll keep my eye on the site and report back when it pops up (could be months).

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qtipiskewl

qtipiskewl

Posted
Posted

Can anyone let me know how much the per person taxes/port fees paid on this trip was?

 

I just got my refund of half my cruise fare and it only turned out to be less than 20% of the total price I paid. I booked through a travel agent and apparently, they coded 60% of my total price as taxes and fees in the original invoice. I didn't think it was cause for concern at payment but I guess it matters now...

 

Thank you in advance!

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Colo Cruiser

Colo Cruiser

Posted
Posted (edited)
Can anyone let me know how much the per person taxes/port fees paid on this trip was?

 

I just got my refund of half my cruise fare and it only turned out to be less than 20% of the total price I paid. I booked through a travel agent and apparently, they coded 60% of my total price as taxes and fees in the original invoice. I didn't think it was cause for concern at payment but I guess it matters now...

 

Thank you in advance!

 

 

But didn't you stop at all the ports?

Edited by Colo Cruiser
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lstone19

lstone19

Posted
Posted
Can anyone let me know how much the per person taxes/port fees paid on this trip was?

 

 

 

I just got my refund of half my cruise fare and it only turned out to be less than 20% of the total price I paid. I booked through a travel agent and apparently, they coded 60% of my total price as taxes and fees in the original invoice. I didn't think it was cause for concern at payment but I guess it matters now...

 

 

 

Thank you in advance!

 

 

Unless you bought a very cheap last minute fare, I cannot imagine any scenario where 60% of what you paid was taxes and fees. But it appears some TAs list what Princess calls the non-commissionable fare as taxes and fees. So if a cruise is advertised by Princess as $2000 plus $200 in taxes and fees but $500 of the $2000 is non-commissionable, some TAs will list that as $1500 plus $700 taxes/fees. But I would have expected the refund to be on the $2000, not $1500.

 

How did you pay for your cruise? Assuming a credit card, was the charge on your statement by Princess or by the TA. From what I've read, you generally want all money going directly to the cruise line and not passing through the TA.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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BEAV

BEAV

Posted
Posted
Ensenada is an operational stop to satisfy the US gov't and only for a few hours.

Not sure about port tax there.

 

I think the question was asking for a breakdown of what part of the total fare was comprised of port charges, taxes and fees. As you know, that amount has to be deducted from the equation when calculating the 50% refund.

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BEAV

BEAV

Posted
Posted (edited)
. So if a cruise is advertised by Princess as $2000 plus $200 in taxes and fees but $500 of the $2000 is non-commissionable, some TAs will list that as $1500 plus $700 taxes/fees. But I would have expected the refund to be on the $2000, not $1500

 

Using your figures, if the total price of the cruise is $2200 and $700 of that amount represents port charges, taxes and fees, the refund is going to be 50% of $1500.

 

Someone who sailed in an inside stateroom is going to receive a smaller percentage of the total fare refunded than someone who cruised in the top suite because the $700 in taxes/fees is the same regardless of category sailed.

Edited by BEAV
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lstone19

lstone19

Posted
Posted
Using your figures, if the total price of the cruise is $2200 and $700 of that amount represents port charges, taxes and fees, the refund is going to be 50% of $1500.

 

Someone who sailed in an inside stateroom is going to receive a smaller percentage of the total fare refunded than someone who cruised in the top suite because the $700 in taxes/fees is the same regardless of category sailed.

 

 

In which case, Princess should have said 50% after deducting the non-commissionable fare (NCF). The commissionable / non-commissionable division is largely hidden from consumers and for good reason if you research the history behind it. Unless your TA splits it out on an invoice (mine does not), you have no idea what the NCF is.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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BEAV

BEAV

Posted
Posted
The commissionable / non-commissionable division is largely hidden from consumers and for good reason if you research the history behind it. Unless your TA splits it out on an invoice (mine does not), you have no idea what the NCF is.

 

That's correct. When you book directly with the cruise line - or a lot of TA's - the port charges are bundled into the cruise fare and therefore opaque to the buyer. It just so happens the TA I use for Princess does separate out all port charges and taxes/fees from the TRUE cruise fare on their invoices. Depending on the itinerary and category booked, the actual cruise fare can seem like a small percentage of the total cost paid once all the port charges, taxes and fees are deducted.

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chengkp75

chengkp75

Posted
Posted
That's correct. When you book directly with the cruise line - or a lot of TA's - the port charges are bundled into the cruise fare and therefore opaque to the buyer. It just so happens the TA I use for Princess does separate out all port charges and taxes/fees from the TRUE cruise fare on their invoices. Depending on the itinerary and category booked, the actual cruise fare can seem like a small percentage of the total cost paid once all the port charges, taxes and fees are deducted.

 

What the TA's use is "port charges" as a disguise for NCF. The cruise line itself does not have "port charges" or NCF, since they are not paying a commission to anyone. "Port taxes and fees" cannot be bundled into the fare, and must be listed separately (in US).

 

What I believe happened is that Princess refunded the 50% to the TA, who then reduced the refund to only the portion considered "commissionable". I think this is wrong and probably illegal, and the PP should contact the TA about this. The TA does not "code" anything to Princess as "port charges", so there is some duplicity going on here.

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BEAV

BEAV

Posted
Posted

 

What I believe happened is that Princess refunded the 50% to the TA, who then reduced the refund to only the portion considered "commissionable". I think this is wrong and probably illegal, and the PP should contact the TA about this. The TA does not "code" anything to Princess as "port charges", so there is some duplicity going on here.

 

If qtipiskewl's refund was to his/her credit card and it came directly from Princess, does that mean there was no involvement, or "hanky panky" by the TA?

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lstone19

lstone19

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The cruise line itself does not have "port charges" or NCF, since they are not paying a commission to anyone.

 

Of course they pay commissions. Every cruise I've booked has me pay the full amount to Princess. Princess then pays the TA their commission.

 

What I believe happened is that Princess refunded the 50% to the TA, who then reduced the refund to only the portion considered "commissionable". I think this is wrong and probably illegal, and the PP should contact the TA about this. The TA does not "code" anything to Princess as "port charges", so there is some duplicity going on here.

 

 

I was thinking along the same lines but until the poster replies with how they paid, it's hard to tell. But still, I'm having a hard time figuring out how only 40% of the total could be commissionable. Would be nice if the poster could provide some numbers. Also, I'd like to see some comments from others who were on the cruise about what they are receiving.

 

 

 

 

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Colo Cruiser

Colo Cruiser

Posted
Posted
Forgive me for what may seem like a silly question... but where exactly will the Grand drydock in Portland? Will it travel down the Willamette to drydock, or is the drydock location closer to the sea?

 

Just curious!

 

 

Vigor industrial dry dock at Portland Oregon ship yard swan island.

http://vigor.net/vigorous

 

 

 

 

There are several posts a few pages back that talk about the dry dock.

Above is one.

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DougH

DougH

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I guess I'm being a bit naive but if I was told I was getting a 50% credit of my cruise fare I would assume that was 50% of my total cost to sail on the ship. If my invoice was $2000 I would assume a $1000 refund. Taking out for taxes, port charges etc before calculating the credit seems unfair.

 

I had a somewhat similar experience as I was on the Star Princess "Earthquake" cruise back in 2010 sailing from Santiago around the Cape all the way back to Ft Lauderdale. I missed the first 10 days and boarded in Buenos Aires. Princess issued a pro rated refund for the missed days (total invoice cost was divided by 32 days of full cruise and then multiplied by 10 for a per day refund) I was also then given a credit but forget how it was figured out. I know ultimately I was very satisfied with the result.

 

Following this story as I'm sailing on the Dec 20 cruise so hope the repairs go fast.

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BEAV

BEAV

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Posted (edited)
What the TA's use is "port charges" as a disguise for NCF. The cruise line itself does not have "port charges" or NCF, since they are not paying a commission to anyone. "Port taxes and fees" cannot be bundled into the fare, and must be listed separately (in US).

 

 

Thanks for your insight on this. I looked up my most recent TA invoice where a charge labeled as port taxes was listed separately from the gov't taxes/fees amount in the fare breakdown. I Googled "non-commissionable cruise fare" and came across this enlightening article.

 

When you receive a quote or purchase a ticket for a cruise, there normally up to 5 components to the price:

 

1) Room or Voyage fare (the cost or fare for the stateroom/cabin)

2) Non-commissionable fees (NCF)

3) Governmental taxes and fees

4) Gratuities (optional, but depends on the cruise line)

5) Travel insurance (optional)

 

The most confusing component is “non-commissionable fees.” What does “non-comm,” “non-commissionable,” or “NCF” fees mean? They are called “non-commissionable fees” (NFC) because the travel agent is not paid a commission on those fees. Several years ago, the Federal Trade Commission required cruise lines to list all “non-commissionable fees” in the price they advertise – in other words, they are supposed to tell you the entire price for the cruise (room/voyage fare + non-commissionable fees + governmental taxes and fees). The purpose of the FTC order was to make sure the customers understood the true cost of their cruise.

 

Unfortunately, “non-commissionable fees” is not a very consumer friendly term, and has been used by cruise lines to merely bump up their profits. These fees typically include port fees, but can include any other fee the cruise line wants to include, such as administrative fees, or fees related to services provided while in ports (piloting fees, stevedores, waste disposal, immigration fees, etc.). You won’t normally see the “non-commissionable fees” broken down or listed, and there are not any requirements or limitations on what a cruise line can or cannot include in the fee. In all honesty, NCFs can be whatever the cruise line wants. The only requirement is that it must be disclosed to the customer or included in the final price.

 

Some travel agencies merely list NCFs as “port fees,” but this is not correct, and it can lead to confusion and frustration. For instance, if your NCFs were labeled as “port fees” of $150 for your cruise, but unfortunately a hurricane prevented you from visiting any port, you would expect to get your $150 “port fees” back. Bad news, you won’t. NCFs are not “port fees” but may include port fees.

So make sure you read the fine print. Make sure you know what you are buying.

 

http://outdestinations.com/news.php?controller=pjLoad&action=pjActionView&id=56

 

Edited by BEAV
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diane.in.ny

diane.in.ny

Posted
Posted
Thanks for your insight on this. I looked up my most recent TA invoice where a charge labeled as port taxes was listed separately from the gov't taxes/fees amount in the fare breakdown. I Googled "non-commissionable cruise fare" and came across this enlightening article.

 

My TA forwards me a copy of the booking form she receives from Princess. It shows the cabin fare and then "Taxes, Fees & Port Expenses." On my copy it shows $260 which is not unreasonable for a port intensive 21-day cruise.

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