Grand injured

[tjwa]

The door is hanging down beside the ship. It didn't off but is pointing straight down.

 

No, the door was simply hanging down from the hinges not at the bottom of the ocean. It is now secured shut for the sail back to dry dock in Portland where it will be repaired.

 

Tom

 

Thanks for that I can see how the the hinge held it.

[Posaune]

Looks like the Grand is making 21.9 knots on the way to Portland right now according to MarineTraffic.com

[triptolemus]

Looks like the Grand is making 21.9 knots

 

In other words, balls out...pedal to the metal.

[Contractor99]

Actually, I'm starting to get a very bad suspicion. The two rams are not painted white like the rest of the equipment in the space, and unlike the photos of working platforms on Princess vessels (don't know if those pictures were the Grand or not). This and the fact that the ends of the cylinders don't look like they are damaged is leaning me to the suspicion that these rams were in the process of being installed. They were not yet connected to the door, and someone activated the hydraulics to retract the rams to meet where the eyes were on the closed door, and they accidentally activated the lock cylinders instead of the closing cylinders, and the door fell out since the closing rams were never connected.

 

I know what you are saying, but why would they have then sailed 500 miles out, if it was an installation of new rams - which should have taken place while in port/tendering the day before. From reading some comments I believe the last port of call was a tender port, and I assume they used all 4 tender platforms - but that is just a guess of course.

[chengkp75]

I know what you are saying, but why would they have then sailed 500 miles out, if it was an installation of new rams - which should have taken place while in port/tendering the day before. From reading some comments I believe the last port of call was a tender port, and I assume they used all 4 tender platforms - but that is just a guess of course.

 

Since the closing rams are what support the tender platform when extended, actually the best time to renew the rams is when the platform is closed, and the lock bars and hinges are supporting the weight, not the hinges and the closing rams. These rams may have been due for overhaul based on service life, and they waited until after the tender port, but wanted to get a jump on the job before drydock, and started the job on the way back.

[BEAV]

Just curious - first flights back did Princess put everyone in economy seats or did suite pax get first class?

 

Our friends were in a full suite and were flown back to SF in economy. They were, however, given a nonstop flight from HNL to SFO on Hawaiian, and were quite satisfied with the arrangements. They were flown back on Tuesday and put up for two nights at the Mark Hopkins until this morning, which was the date the ship had been due back into SF (end of cruise). They are flying home to Florida tomorrow on their regularly scheduled flight (non-EZ Air).

[49er]

Since the closing rams are what support the tender platform when extended, actually the best time to renew the rams is when the platform is closed, and the lock bars and hinges are supporting the weight, not the hinges and the closing rams. These rams may have been due for overhaul based on service life, and they waited until after the tender port, but wanted to get a jump on the job before drydock, and started the job on the way back.

 

Your reasoning sounds the most plausible so far that I have seen here. Probably we will never know for sure but I bet you are right.

 

49er

[ar1950]

Actually, I'm starting to get a very bad suspicion. The two rams are not painted white like the rest of the equipment in the space, and unlike the photos of working platforms on Princess vessels (don't know if those pictures were the Grand or not). This and the fact that the ends of the cylinders don't look like they are damaged is leaning me to the suspicion that these rams were in the process of being installed. They were not yet connected to the door, and someone activated the hydraulics to retract the rams to meet where the eyes were on the closed door, and they accidentally activated the lock cylinders instead of the closing cylinders, and the door fell out since the closing rams were never connected.

 

Both pictures were posted by someone who was on board when the incident happened. Not sure where else they would have found pictures of an identical situation on another ship. Everything else you have posted here and in the posts following make perfect sense. If so, it would seem to be an operational/maintenance goof up. Bad news for somebody in that (or those) department(s).

Edited December 9, 2016 by ar1950

[Contractor99]

Both pictures were posted by someone who was on board when the incident happened. Not sure where else they would have found pictures of an identical situation on another ship. Everything else you have posted here and in the posts following makes perfect sense. If so, it would seem to be an operational/maintenance goof up. Bad news for somebody in that (or those) department(s).

 

Of for an outside company..

[chengkp75]

Both pictures were posted by someone who was on board when the incident happened. Not sure where else they would have found pictures of an identical situation on another ship. Everything else you have posted here and in the posts following make perfect sense. If so, it would seem to be an operational/maintenance goof up. Bad news for somebody in that (or those) department(s).

 

This is the picture I was talking about, I now see the poster identified it as being the Emerald, which is not quite identical, but the tender platforms look similar. I wasn't saying a similar incident had happened, I was saying that in this photo, the entire tender area and machinery is painted white.

 

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showpost.php?p=51686291&postcount=74

[ar1950]

This is the picture I was talking about, I now see the poster identified it as being the Emerald, which is not quite identical, but the tender platforms look similar. I wasn't saying a similar incident had happened, I was saying that in this photo, the entire tender area and machinery is painted white.

 

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showpost.php?p=51686291&postcount=74

 

Gotcha. It is strange, though, that the rams in the incident photo (and both of the ram cylinders are different colors from one another) do not match the typical color scheme of everything that is below the Plaza deck on all of just about all of the Princess ships. All the more reason that your theory is so plausible.

Edited December 9, 2016 by ar1950

[PrincessLuver]

Our friends were in a full suite and were flown back to SF in economy. They were, however, given a nonstop flight from HNL to SFO on Hawaiian, and were quite satisfied with the arrangements. They were flown back on Tuesday and put up for two nights at the Mark Hopkins until this morning, which was the date the ship had been due back into SF (end of cruise). They are flying home to Florida tomorrow on their regularly scheduled flight (non-EZ Air).

 

I hope it was a non-stop from HNL to SFO....yikes....:):)

[julie3fan]

I hope it was a non-stop from HNL to SFO....yikes....:):)

They could have been routed thru LA - but I get what you mean! 😉

[BEAV]

I hope it was a non-stop from HNL to SFO....yikes....:):)

 

Yeah, a number of other posters in this thread reported having to make connections (LAX, SEA) to get back from HNL. I don't know if they were given priority due to being in a full suite or just lucky they were assigned a nonstop.

[A&L_Ont]

Chief. I took the better picture and labelled what I think I see and want to ask you about.

 

- Is it right to say that the end of the hydraulic ram looks to be snapped/cracked off? We can't really tell with the forward one dragging in the water but would guess it looks the same.

 

- The hydraulic cylinder forward seems to be in better condition, where as the one further back almost looks as though it's been in the elements more than the closer one. To further my thoughts from my RC and Princess cruises crew are always painting to keep things protected as well as looking good. Would it be out of the normal for these two matching parts to cosmetically look so different when the a few meters away from one another? Does it seem strange that the back cylinder appears to be corroded/rusted compared to the one that is in the water and the paint appears pristine? Unless one had already been replaced like your possible theory?

 

- On the solid hydraulic lines alongside the cylinder it looks as though the paint has just peeled off on a bit on both of them. I would think that is normal wear on both? Are they tubed stainless?

 

I have no clue to why the door would have opened but from my time working with large farm equipment strong ram ends don't usually just fail. If anything they might be slightly cracked and then break under stress. In that case it is almost only one side. The farm though doesn't have pressures such as the of the force of the ocean.

 

In the case both sides have failed and the door is essentially dragging in the water. Could the tender door have opened if it was latched shut but someone applied pressure to the hydraulic lines?

 

Thank goodness the pins that held the platform on didn't partially fail. That would have put a lot of stress on the slide of the ship as it flapped under the water line.

 

However it got to this state, it seems unlikely that "it just happened" on its own. Is that a fair statement? I guess I have more questions than theories.

 

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Forums

[ar1950]

Chief. I took the better picture and labelled what I think I see and want to ask you about..........................

 

Not Chief, however if you read from post #469 forward he pretty much addresses all of your questions and comments.

 

BTW, as far as the differences in the cylinders on the rams, they may have been rebuilt and just not have been painted the same.

[FishinChris]

here is a picture I took as we were departing the ill fated tender platform in Maui. It was the next day that the incident happened. Sorry but this one is blurry.

 

Hawaii Cruise-867.jpg by Chris Ernst, on Flickr

[ar1950]

here is a picture I took as we were departing the ill fated tender platform in Maui. It was the next day that the incident happened. Sorry but this one is blurry.

 

Hawaii Cruise-867.jpg by Chris Ernst, on Flickr

 

Pretty hard to see the ram jacks other than the closest one on the left of the picture. However, it seems to be white. Definitely not the mottled brownish color cylinder with aqua blue skeleton parts that it seems to be as shown on the post-incident picture on post #467.

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showpost.php?p=51720240&postcount=467

 

FishinChris, great photo documentation. Seems to add more credence to Chief's theory. BTW, I am assuming that the ill fated tender platform is the left one??? If it is the right one, pretty hard to tell.

Edited December 9, 2016 by ar1950

[bigchid]

In the photo above, there doesn't appear to be a lot of room to work in that space with the platform stowed.

[Colo Cruiser]

In the photo above, there doesn't appear to be a lot of room to work in that space with the platform stowed.

 

There isn't, it is flush once closed.

[RDC1]

Pretty hard to see the ram jacks other than the closest one on the left of the picture. However, it seems to be white. Definitely not the mottled brownish color cylinder with aqua blue skeleton parts that it seems to be as shown on the post-incident picture on post #467.

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showpost.php?p=51720240&postcount=467

 

FishinChris, great photo documentation. Seems to add more credence to Chief's theory. BTW, I am assuming that the ill fated tender platform is the left one??? If it is the right one, pretty hard to tell.

 

The closest ram is aqua and is horizontal in the picture on the platform that does not have a tender at it. The one on the platform with the tender also appears to be aqua. The same color as the lower portion of the hull. Since when open the ram is below that line and thus is painted to match.

[ar1950]

The closest ram is aqua and is horizontal in the picture on the platform that does not have a tender at it. The one on the platform with the tender also appears to be aqua. The same color as the lower portion of the hull. Since when open the ram is below that line and thus is painted to match.

 

And then again, the closest one in the failed pictures seems to be a different color. At least the ram cylinder appears different.

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showpost.php?p=51720240&postcount=467

 

Just a modest observation. I'm sure someone will have an explanation. :)

[ar1950]

There isn't, it is flush once closed.

 

Probably. However, that doesn't mean that there are not maintenance access ports around the rams and other items that may need maintenance. Unfortunately we may need a Princess engineer insider to know for sure. Or maybe this is something that is consistent on most cruise ships? Chief??

[sloopsailor]

Here is a better photo of what these tender platforms look like. I believe this is the Emerald Princess, a sister to Grand.

 

Edited December 9, 2016 by sloopsailor

[Bill B]

BTW, as far as the differences in the cylinders on the rams, they may have been rebuilt and just not have been painted the same.

 

Yeah... that's not rust on the failed cylinder, it's camouflage paint - they got it cheap at a military surplus sale. ;)