My Suggestion to HAL for the Lido Buffet Regarding Food Allergies

[debsjc]

I'm sad about the sandwiches too. But they actually do say what is in the premade ones. That's helpful.

 

That is helpful, but I am guessing most of them will have either mayo, tomato, chutney or mustard in ... none of which I can eat!

 

It was great before to just be able to get meat & cheese.

[debsjc]

I do think the OP is right, some sort of labeling should be possible. If not every ingredient, then at least the major ones.

 

Restricting people with food allergies to the main dining room seems unfair to me, but I also wouldn't want to hold up other diners whilst I ask questions about the ingredients.

[OlsSalt]

I do think the OP is right, some sort of labeling should be possible. If not every ingredient, then at least the major ones.

 

Restricting people with food allergies to the main dining room seems unfair to me, but I also wouldn't want to hold up other diners whilst I ask questions about the ingredients.

 

Since those with various food allergies often also require there be no cross-contamination during the food preparation, perhaps the unfair part is requiring all buffet items be separately prepared and segregated according to each and every stated food allergy.

 

There are so many levels to food allergies today, which it is why it is probably safest to limit specific food allergy accommodations to the MDR. Though having a menu item list sent to the cabins ahead of time would be helpful to those who do wish to still make choices from the general offerings at the buffet

 

Keep in mind there is only so much space available so when one section now is devoted to dietary allergy items, then that means one formerly available buffet item can no longer available. And one or more culinary staffers, that perhaps may have been devoted custom making sandwiches, are now managing these separate dietary items in that same buffet line space.

 

Gluten allergies require separate bread toasters. Etc, etc, etc. I honestly don't know how this all gets sorted out, which again is why requests for these specific and competing dietary demands are best left to the MDR setting for more personal control on both sides over the final outcome.

[USN59-79]

Wasn't it you that had a problem with your hand and repeatedly asked for patience with your posts? Deciphering posts never killed anyone. A food allergy c Individualss' allergies can b e handled without such dsruption to the lunch service for literally dozens and dozens of persons.,

 

Please share the thought process that makes one circumstance like the other?

 

As to patience, perhaps people have been ashore in port, , came back to the ship for lunch and have limited time until they meet up for their afternoon activivities in port. If they stand in that line and don't ge t lunch in time, that could not be well received.

 

I go back to t the premise of thinking about other people and not always just oursleves(Gee, what a concept ) :). there are safe alternative s for the allergic person to safely select what to have for luunch. They do not have to remove a steward from his duties of generally working t he restaurant and have him go on their personal mission

 

 

Anyone who is annoyed with my typing errors, has the option to not read a word of what I post and to put me on 'ignore.'. that is a great feature this forum offers.

I, for one genuinely enjoy reading your posts. For awhile it was a little difficult, but the effort was worth it. I notice that your "penmanship" has improved quite a bit, so I assume that whatever the cause was it has greatly diminished. I also enjoy your signature. Not sure why HAL seems to think that they can only go forward by ignoring their past history.

[OlsSalt]

Cruise Critic weighs in on cruising with food allergies and specific dietary demands with a list of 10 items passengers are encouraged to expect and ask for.

 

Now multiply this list of 10 demands times a few hundred to a 1000 or so passengers who may also have differing allergies and dietary demands -some health related, some religious and/or some merely personal preference. http://www.cruisecritic.com/articles.cfm?ID=1513 Logistically, this does not make sense.

 

To meet these 10 demands at the same time, passengers now expecting this level of individual care, from the already spread thin culinary staff who still has time left over to see that the other passengers get their plain old scrambled eggs hot and their orange juice cold?

 

I simply don't see how they can handle this growing number of different individual requests, each having an impact on personnel time as this list of ten encourages passengers to make.

 

This level of individual care might be far more marketing hype, than real life cruise ship experience. It seems an odd contradiction for those who choose mass market cruise lines, knowing we will not get nor expect a similar level of daily personalized dietary care three times a day with snacks.

 

Maybe Crystal who prides itself on "crystalizing" its passengers with even unanticipated and unbidden levels of personal care (for a price), but good old mass market HAL? I don't know. Something has to give.

[kazu]

That is helpful, but I am guessing most of them will have either mayo, tomato, chutney or mustard in ... none of which I can eat!

 

It was great before to just be able to get meat & cheese.

 

Reflecting on my recent Rotterdam cruise, I think they have it right. They still offered basic "made to order" sandwiches with a "specialty sandwich" with the ingredients listed as well as the pre mades.

 

The made to orders make it simple for anyone with allergies. Choices are more difficult with the pre-mades, no question, but, at least they have the ingredients listed.

 

I have not seen a hold up in the line if someone wants to look. Lidos offer a lot of the same items on a regular basis and alwaysfrantic's suggestion is a good one IMO.

[Homosassa]

That is helpful, but I am guessing most of them will have either mayo, tomato, chutney or mustard in ... none of which I can eat!

 

It was great before to just be able to get meat & cheese.

 

LOL - that includes the one sandwich that never should be within a mile of mayo - the premade Italian sub with its globs of mayo.

 

Yes, I know HAL sees it customer base as "Mid West," but this throws out all culinary standards.

[Homosassa]

I have traveled for years with my husband who has a severe reaction to mushrooms (he metabolizes them as if they were the poisonous with severe GI problems about two hours after exposure) and my daughter who has an epi-pen worthy allergy to bananas (cross linked sensitivity to avocados).

 

They both know what foods has even a slight possibility of containing their problem food and don't even taste them. The buffet hasn't caused them a problem, if in doubt, they move along.

 

The allergies are noted on their cruise reservations and all cruise lines have always accommodated them (by giving warning of the food items that contain the items so they can avoid them). There is always plenty of other food items to chose from.

[Tampa Girl]

Reflecting on my recent Rotterdam cruise, I think they have it right. They still offered basic "made to order" sandwiches with a "specialty sandwich" with the ingredients listed as well as the pre mades.

 

The made to orders make it simple for anyone with allergies. Choices are more difficult with the pre-mades, no question, but, at least they have the ingredients listed.

 

I have not seen a hold up in the line if someone wants to look. Lidos offer a lot of the same items on a regular basis and alwaysfrantic's suggestion is a good one IMO.

 

The same items may be offered on a regular basis, but that is no guarantee that the cooks have not substituted one spice for another at any given time. I agree with you as far as the pre-made and custom-made sandwiches go, however.

 

The bottom line is that people with food allergies need to take it upon themselves to be cautious. As OlsSalt has observed, if the allergies are so severe that they can't trust their own observations, it is unrealistic to require a mass marketed ship to oversee an individual passenger's diet in a venue such as a buffet line. It has gotten so bad that one poster, in past thread, complained that there was no sign on a bowl of peanuts, warning of the content!

[Tampa Girl]

Reflecting on my recent Rotterdam cruise,

 

Kazu - off topic, I'm sorry, but what was the state of the library on the Rotterdam and was a change predicted in the next drydock?

[sail7seas]

I, for one genuinely enjoy reading your posts. For awhile it was a little difficult, but the effort was worth it. I notice that your "penmanship" has improved quite a bit, so I assume that whatever the cause was it has greatly diminished. I also enjoy your signature. Not sure why HAL seems to think that they can only go forward by ignoring their past history.

Thank you, US.N, I greatly appreciate your kindness. I till struggle to lessen the errors b ut....... My doctors t old me healing woul d be slow, however, I am grateful for all healing I have experienced.

 

 

I am still trying to understand why the corporate officers of HAL thought it good use of funds to change what was a perfectly suitable logo for the company and change it. makes no sense I freely admit I have no clue how to run a cruise line, but I would venture , changing HAL's well rocognized and loved by many logo was not a great use of corporate f u nds that could have gone to so many useful things. What a waste.

[VennDiagram]

Hal is great a dinners with food allergies....they know mine and accommodate. But the Lido is a mine field for those of us with food allergies. The staff will go to the chef to ask about ingredients, but it takes a while and more important than my time waiting is what job he/she is getting behind doing for other guests while checking.

 

When I ask, I step out of line to not hold up anyone behind me, while someone behind the counter takes over service for the person who left. OR, this happens more frequently, there is someone behind the counter (not a server, some sort of supervisor I suspect) who can answer regarding ingredients, or who can check with the kitchen.

 

I like the idea of cards but as others have mentioned, there are many reasons why it isn't likely to happen.

[VennDiagram]

....

 

I suggest anyone with a claimed food allergy pay a surcharge that covers all additional staff and preparation requirements if they find a cruise line willing to provide these ever-increasing demands and accommodations..

 

That's a slippery slope. Where does the cruise line draw the line? Do children pay a surcharge because they are messy, causing more work? Do the incontinent pay more because of the possible additional work and burden on the various onboard systems? Do people in wheelchairs pay more because they create extra work and sometimes, extra wear and tear? Should people who have difficulty feeding themselves pay more, for the extra cleaning of the table linens and carpets?

 

Rather reminds me of one of our neighbours, who is happy to expound on how drinkers should pay their own health costs, but would NEVER suggest that his overweight wife should have to pay for her own knee replacements.

[VennDiagram]

As for the chorus of "people with food allergies shouldn't go to the Lido" -- if a dining venue is available to most, included with the fare, it should be available to all. I can only imagine the outrage on Cruise Critic if someone was told "oh sorry, you can't use (insert dining venue)". Actually there was a recent thread about the MDR ..... and there was plenty of outrage.

[Tennessee Titan]

The same items may be offered on a regular basis, but that is no guarantee that the cooks have not substituted one spice for another at any given time. I agree with you as far as the pre-made and custom-made sandwiches go, however.

 

The bottom line is that people with food allergies need to take it upon themselves to be cautious. As OlsSalt has observed, if the allergies are so severe that they can't trust their own observations, it is unrealistic to require a mass marketed ship to oversee an individual passenger's diet in a venue such as a buffet line. It has gotten so bad that one poster, in past thread, complained that there was no sign on a bowl of peanuts, warning of the content!

 

Hear, hear!!!

[sail7seas]

The same items may be offered on a regular basis, but that is no guarantee that the cooks have not substituted one spice for another at any given time. I agree with you as far as the pre-made and custom-made sandwiches go, however.

 

The bottom line is that people with food allergies need to take it upon themselves to be cautious. As OlsSalt has observed, if the allergies are so severe that they can't trust their own observations, it is unrealistic to require a mass marketed ship to oversee an individual passenger's diet in a venue such as a buffet line. It has gotten so bad that one poster, in past thread, complained that there was no sign on a bowl of peanuts, warning of the content!

 

I suspect CDC will not think those cute little signs in the trays of food a good idea and could cost the ship a sharp lowering of their inspection score for putting a possible contaminate, in the food trays. I hav e an image of some less than sanitary 'guest' choosing to handle that cute little sign., lifitn g it, bringing it c loser to their face to have a 'good look' and replacin g. it. O f course, their hands are not likely meticulously clean. :eek: Even better.... maybe they'll pass it down the line for lots of folks to read. :mad:

[alwaysfrantic]

Then the CDC would have shut them down long ago by your logic....there is a sign at every item telling the passenger what the dish is (or was the past two years I've been onboard). I've never seen anyone pawing them but perhaps you do(?) Even if you were to do so, it wouldn't really matter; it is plastic and not adjacent to the food anyway. Have at them!

[kazu]

Kazu - off topic, I'm sorry, but what was the state of the library on the Rotterdam and was a change predicted in the next drydock?

 

The library was just fine on the Rotterdam Tampa Girl. You no longer need to sign out for books. Just take them and return therm.

 

No librarian and while a couple of books may have been slightly out of order, it was all good IMO (and I was a librarian for 8 years while I was a student).

 

There are no plans to change the library at dry dock.

 

As I am sure you know, it is it's own separate area so has no effect on the Crow's Nest.

 

I will add that there were several new HAL cruisers who have been on other ships that were blown away by the library, the games, puzzles, etc.

 

Apologies to the OP for the thread drift.

[Florida_gal_50]

I ate dinner with a couple on my recent cruise. She was allergic to garlic and a few other things as I recall. She had an epi pen at the table. She had a special order every night but on two occasions she left after eating a bite of her food because she felt there was some alergin in her food even though it was a special order. I asked her how she managed to eat in the lido and she said it was no problem at all. I was surprised by that. I believe people do need to take responsibility for what they eat.

[OlsSalt]

That's a slippery slope. Where does the cruise line draw the line? Do children pay a surcharge because they are messy, causing more work? Do the incontinent pay more because of the possible additional work and burden on the various onboard systems? Do people in wheelchairs pay more because they create extra work and sometimes, extra wear and tear? Should people who have difficulty feeding themselves pay more, for the extra cleaning of the table linens and carpets?

 

Rather reminds me of one of our neighbours, who is happy to expound on how drinkers should pay their own health costs, but would NEVER suggest that his overweight wife should have to pay for her own knee replacements.

 

Preparing three plus meals a day and requiring special preparation space and individual staff attention for each individual food item is asking a bit more than whether a a kid messes up the dining table or someone occasionally needs wheel chair assistance. Providing adequate dietary oversight to the growing numbers of food allergy passengers - which is a serious demand, not trivial according to the claimed consequences -- is a reasonable surcharge.

 

And if I were one of these passengers who had life-threatening allergies at the merest inadvertent exposures I think I would be first in line to pay that extra surcharge for my own sense of travel security. This is a mass market line which means it offers value to mass market customers.

 

When it has to start carving out more and more uniquely individualized functions, the mass market value will be compromised. It was one thing to start offering vegetarian, then it was shellfish and peanuts, then gluten, now non-dairy products, etc, etc, etc -- get the picture. We now can't even unwittingly use basil.

[Florida_gal_50]

Then the CDC would have shut them down long ago by your logic....there is a sign at every item telling the passenger what the dish is (or was the past two years I've been onboard). I've never seen anyone pawing them but perhaps you do(?) Even if you were to do so, it wouldn't really matter; it is plastic and not adjacent to the food anyway. Have at them!

The signs I've seen say things like "salmon" or " mashed potatoes" they haven't listed ingredients that I have seen. What would a passanger get from picking something up like that?

[alwaysfrantic]

The library was just fine on the Rotterdam Tampa Girl. You no longer need to sign out for books. Just take them and return therm.

 

No librarian and while a couple of books may have been slightly out of order, it was all good IMO (and I was a librarian for 8 years while I was a student).

 

There are no plans to change the library at dry dock.

 

As I am sure you know, it is it's own separate area so has no effect on the Crow's Nest.

 

I will add that there were several new HAL cruisers who have been on other ships that were blown away by the library, the games, puzzles, etc.

 

Apologies to the OP for the thread drift.

Love all updates. Thank you!

[debsjc]

Preparing three plus meals a day and requiring special preparation space and individual staff attention for each individual food item is asking a bit more than whether a a kid messes up the dining table or someone occasionally needs wheel chair assistance. Providing adequate dietary oversight to the growing numbers of food allergy passengers - which is a serious demand, not trivial according to the claimed consequences -- is a reasonable surcharge.

 

And if I were one of these passengers who had life-threatening allergies at the merest inadvertent exposures I think I would be first in line to pay that extra surcharge for my own sense of travel security. This is a mass market line which means it offers value to mass market customers.

 

When it has to start carving out more and more uniquely individualized functions, the mass market value will be compromised. It was one thing to start offering vegetarian, then it was shellfish and peanuts, then gluten, now non-dairy products, etc, etc, etc -- get the picture. We now can't even unwittingly use basil.

 

I am quite shocked that you are seriously suggesting a surcharge for passengers with food allergies. Would you like cruise lines, and come to that airlines, to start discriminating against passengers with other medical problems too?

 

Where do you draw the line, would you like a charge for people who need a wheelchair too?

 

It's actually not much fun having a medical condition which causes daily pain, and stops you eating a lot of the foods you like. Now you would like us to pay more as well - what a selfish point of view. :o

[alwaysfrantic]

The signs I've seen say things like "salmon" or " mashed potatoes" they haven't listed ingredients that I have seen. What would a passanger get from picking something up like that?

I agree. Why would anyone pick it up and somehow contaminate the food.

 

My initial suggestion was for a sign saying:

 

Salmon

Butter, dill, salt, pepper

 

Or

Mashed Potatoes

Cream, butter, salt

 

Or

 

Fetticini Alfredo

Wheat, cream, butter, salt, nutmeg

[OlsSalt]

I am quite shocked that you are seriously suggesting a surcharge for passengers with food allergies. Would you like cruise lines, and come to that airlines, to start discriminating against passengers with other medical problems too?

 

Where do you draw the line, would you like a charge for people who need a wheelchair too?

 

It's actually not much fun having a medical condition which causes daily pain, and stops you eating a lot of the foods you like. Now you would like us to pay more as well - what a selfish point of view. :o

 

I don't think I am the one being selfish. But that is obviously an arguable and selfish point of view wanting to protect mass market cruising for the mass market. .