Darling, what are you wearing?

[Paulchili]

When did a baseball cap become acceptable at the table or any hat on men for that matter?

(other than for religious reasons )

 

How about speedos on 80 year old men with beer bellies? :D

[ChuckandDiPNW]

Dear MinxinWA,I

 

If your husband wears a nice sports jacket, nice slacks and a tie, be prepared to have other women "check him out". It has happened to me on "O" and I am not that good looking. Many of these other women may be thinking, "I wish my man would dress up like that for me". PS - the waitresses notice too.

 

Clean shirt, new shoes

And I don't know where I am goin' to

Silk suit, black tie,

I don't need a reason why

They come runnin' just as fast as they can

'Cause every girl crazy 'bout a sharp dressed man

 

Gold watch, diamond ring,

I ain't missin' not a single thing

Cufflinks, stick pin,

When I step out I'm gonna do you in

They come runnin' just as fast as they can

'Cause every girl crazy 'bout a sharp dressed man

 

Top coat, top hat,

And I don't worry 'cause my wallet's fat

Black shades, white gloves,

Lookin' sharp lookin' for love

They come runnin' just as fast as they can

'Cause every girl crazy 'bout a sharp dressed man...

 

ZZ Top, Sharp Dressed Man :cool:

[Mura]

LOL. Thanks for the smile.

 

Mura

[LHT28]

How about speedos on 80 year old men with beer bellies? :D

sounds like a Fun ship

[Mura]

Actually, to get back to basics... people are worrying too much about what to wear.

 

This is not Cunard which -- when we last cruised on the QE2 many years ago -- was important. Formal nights, semi-formal nights, men almost always had to have suits and ties.

 

That isn't the case with Oceania and people really are worrying too much about the dress code!

 

You can wear jeans and shorts to lunch (or the buffet any time) but not to dinner. Why is that so hard?

 

Okay, no doubt someone is going to tell me why it is ...

 

If you are neat and clean, you'll be fine.

[ITGuyMD]

I think this partly - but not entirely - can be explained by the changing demographics on Oceania. There are many first time O cruisers that come from mass market lines where this dress code is acceptable. Not all are members of CC where this topic is discussed and thus they may not be as aware of the dress code on O as those that post here.

JMO.

That may be true but the general vibe I get even from these CC threads is that many of the return cruisers prefer to keep it casual. I personally think that's the biggest problem, is that O's dress code of country club casual is very loose to begin with and enforcement is even more lax. Personally, I think if you start at a "casual" baseline you're going to get a wider range that has a floor of...jeans and hats and whatever else. Even most of the looked-down upon mass market cruises have "formal nights" where guests have the choice to dress up.

 

I remember even in some of the threads I posted in, people were somewhat surprised with even a discouraging tone when I said I planned to pack a few sports coats/blazers for dinner, and while I'm a first time cruiser on O, I don't mind being the guy that sticks out in a sea of jeans because that's not uncommon for any of the nicer restaurants we go to in our home city. :)

 

I guess the more long-time/return cruisers dress it up a bit can have a lasting impact on the overall culture on O and set the baseline for newbies. Just a thought. :)

[LHT28]

Maybe they should change the wording of the dress code to "elegant casual"

Not everyone belongs to a Country club & if they do different clubs have different dress codes

Or maybe just have a page with photos of what to wear VS what not to wear in the Blue Book ;)

JMO

[Mura]

Well ... I'm not sure where to start.

 

For real starters, no one will stare at you if you have a suit and tie, sports jacket, whatever. You seem to be emphasizing the "casual" ... I'm not sure you should. And if I am wrong, I apologize!

 

Casual is nice, that's all. Not too formal, not too informal, and if you want to dress up because it's your anniversary, I don't think anyone will criticize.

 

I remember on our first Renaissance cruise -- also "country club casual" -- we saw a group of 8 who were in formal dress, and we just thought it was charming. I liked seeing them all gussied up even if I didn't want to do so myself.

 

If you are in a restaurant at dinner, you will NOT find yourself in a "sea of jeans" ... unless you are at the buffet where that is fine.

 

If you want to wear your sport jackets, whatever, you really won't be alone.

 

I am reminded of the night some years ago when we shared a table with another couple. He was in a suit and tie. One of his first questions to us was about the dress code! So I informed him that he didn't need the suit and tie. The next night we saw him in one of the specialty restaurants and he was happily without the suit jacket and tie. (He was dressed in case you are curious!)

 

Really, don't obsess about the dress code!

 

Mura

[ITGuyMD]

Maybe they should change the wording of the dress code to "elegant casual"

Not everyone belongs to a Country club & if they do different clubs have different dress codes

Or maybe just have a page with photos of what to wear VS what not to wear in the Blue Book ;)

JMO

I think elegant casual would definitely be a good starting point. The funny part of it was I mentioned the O brochures and promo photos where most of the men were wearing jackets, and that's where people started jumping in and saying jackets aren't necessary or expected and that O should update their promo media to reflect that!

 

I guess the point is, you're going to get a wide range of dress regardless, if you start lower, you're going to get lower with folks pushing the limits.....which many have noticed hits the bottom with jeans, baseball caps, shorts, flip flops etc.

[ITGuyMD]

Well ... I'm not sure where to start.

 

For real starters, no one will stare at you if you have a suit and tie, sports jacket, whatever. You seem to be emphasizing the "casual" ... I'm not sure you should. And if I am wrong, I apologize!

 

Casual is nice, that's all. Not too formal, not too informal, and if you want to dress up because it's your anniversary, I don't think anyone will criticize.

 

I remember on our first Renaissance cruise -- also "country club casual" -- we saw a group of 8 who were in formal dress, and we just thought it was charming. I liked seeing them all gussied up even if I didn't want to do so myself.

 

If you are in a restaurant at dinner, you will NOT find yourself in a "sea of jeans" ... unless you are at the buffet where that is fine.

 

If you want to wear your sport jackets, whatever, you really won't be alone.

 

I am reminded of the night some years ago when we shared a table with another couple. He was in a suit and tie. One of his first questions to us was about the dress code! So I informed him that he didn't need the suit and tie. The next night we saw him in one of the specialty restaurants and he was happily without the suit jacket and tie. (He was dressed in case you are curious!)

 

Really, don't obsess about the dress code!

 

Mura

 

I think we are getting at the same point, when you use the word casual, people have different viewpoints of what casual is and as already mentioned, not everyone belongs to or has experience of country club dress codes. So they fall back to what they think casual is.

 

I guess that's why formal invitations/events of any kind set dress codes, because they know there's going to be variations of dress no matter what they do, and there's tons of guides that outline this and yet there's still variation.

 

Formal: you'll have anything from black tie (high), suits (midrange), sportscoats/blazers (lower mid) to slacks/button downs (low)

 

Cocktail/semi-formal: Same as above, but suits slide up to (high) and you go down from there

 

Country club/elegant casual: sportscoats become high, slacks button downs (baseline), jeans and whatever people can get away with = new low.

 

I think the slippery slope begins with jeans, I've seen people comment on it before too, they say hey I paid $200 for these designer jeans, why can't I wear them to dinner? In the end I'm not too worried about it, as I said earlier go to dinner in what you're comfortable wearing, but there's no doubt what each individual chooses to wear overall sets the tone and culture for any cruise liner. So while O may say "Country Club Casual" I think returning cruisers have just as much influence on what that actually means as O. :)

[pinotlover]

I think it's simple. I don't/wouldn't pay Oceania prices to go on Grunge Cruise Line. I don't pay the prices at Applebee's or TGYF that I do to several of our fine dining restaurants with dress codes. If Oceania lowers its dress code, there will be those that will still push its lowered limits. It's purely a marketing decision by Oceania and where they see/ want their market to evolve. Go grunge, and we'll go elsewhere. Who knows, maybe their marketing research says we'll quickly be replaced by three new couples that only want casual casual to grunge in all venues. Times are changing.

[ChuckandDiPNW]

News flash folks... As younger 'less socially mature' cruisers enter the O level cruise market, there will be changes to dress and general attire. Case in point, go make a sales call at Amazon. You will experience a virtual carnival like atmosphere of dress, social interaction and yes, even workers or 'associates' in the PC world, leavng and entering 'work' with their dogs and pets. I don't know how they get anything done! Pinotlover nailed it - "Times are changing." Like it or not, it's coming.

 

The point is the younger crowd will replace the current culture to some degree simply due to the evolution of their perception of what is acceptable socially and what is acceptable today in the work place. Many could care less if you or I don't particualrly care for their view of what we consider proper or acceptable. 'Country Club Casual' today, will certainly be different in the coming years.

 

The cruise lines will have to flex as time evolves to accomodate a completely new generation of upper market clientele simply because the younger generations perception of acceptable dress is potentially different. I can say this, it will be interesting to witness... that is if I live long enough! Oh yeah, and one more time... 'Cause every girl crazy 'bout a sharp dressed man... and every guy crazy 'bout a well dressed gal! Well then, maybe there is hope after all! ;)

[S2000ap1]

There are limits and its up to Oceania to set those and ensure they are followed . OR NOT.

 

Last cruise Lisbon to Rome , I did wear a jacket on several occasions and a tie a couple of times , because that's how I feel one should dress , full stop

 

I did see a man in the MDR in sandles and socks , now please , I am sorry but that is wrong on all counts , dress code , fashion , good taste and anything else you can think off. I would. Hesitate. To call him a Gentleman .

 

There were other serious fashion blunders and just poor,taste but hey ho the clientele are a broad church , I dare say some would say I made a few blunders , pink trousers , pink shoes !,,,,

 

How about,fashion police at the entrances to the restaurants with score cards like strictly come dancing , now that would be a laugh !

[robbie21]

News flash folks... As younger 'less socially mature' cruisers enter the O level cruise market, there will be changes to dress and general attire. Case in point, go make a sales call at Amazon. You will experience a virtual carnival like atmosphere of dress, social interaction and yes, even workers or 'associates' in the PC world, leavng and entering 'work' with their dogs and pets. I don't know how they get anything done! Pinotlover nailed it - "Times are changing." Like it or not, it's coming.

 

The point is the younger crowd will replace the current culture to some degree simply due to :)the evolution of their perception of what is acceptable socially and what is acceptable today in the work place. Many could care less if you or I don't particualrly care for their view of what we consider proper or acceptable. 'Country Club Casual' today, will certainly be different in the coming years.

 

The cruise lines will have to flex as time evolves to accomodate a completely new generation of upper market clientele simply because the younger generations perception of acceptable dress is potentially different. I can say this, it will be interesting to witness... that is if I live long enough! Oh yeah, and one more time... 'Cause every girl crazy 'bout a sharp dressed man... and every guy crazy 'bout a well dressed gal! Well then, maybe there is hope after all!

 

Excellent point! Another, so far unmentioned point, there is an east coast vs. west coast divide on the definitions. On a previous round of this interminable discussion I pointed out that there is exactly one restaurant in Seattle that requires men to wear a jacket. In NYC it is not uncommon to see this requirement. Similarly, I have not found a private golf or country club in this area that requires men to wear jackets for dinner (note: someone will probably quote one that does). Here in the NW I routinely see men in jeans at the Symphony and in this area there is a good chance they are Microsoft millionaires who are patrons of the Symphony.

 

So, as ChuckandDiPNW points out - standards vary with age and demographics. What other people choose to wear at dinner on Oceania does not really bother me. People who judge others by appearances alone do bother me. Lighten up folks!

 

Robbie

[ChuckandDiPNW]

Robbie makes a great case regarding the geographic and social standards of CC casual attire. East and West have definitive differences in many areas aside from dress. Throw in the various regional takes on CC casual dress and, well, it can get interesting! Jackson, WY and Billings, MT CC casual dress is a whole bunch different than Birmingham, AL, Nashville, TN CC casual, let alone L.A., Seattle, Chicago or NYC. So, the point is that folks may tend to wear what they believe is appropriate based on their home turf and that's ok.

 

What folks choose to wear is, well, their choice, eh. We like dressing to the occassion and have fun with it. Now, as long as that gentleman doesn't show up in a Speedo, sans cover up for a meal, carry on... Pass me my camera as the folks back home gotta see this!

[ITGuyMD]

News flash folks... As younger 'less socially mature' cruisers enter the O level cruise market, there will be changes to dress and general attire. Case in point, go make a sales call at Amazon. You will experience a virtual carnival like atmosphere of dress, social interaction and yes, even workers or 'associates' in the PC world, leavng and entering 'work' with their dogs and pets. I don't know how they get anything done! Pinotlover nailed it - "Times are changing." Like it or not, it's coming.

 

The point is the younger crowd will replace the current culture to some degree simply due to the evolution of their perception of what is acceptable socially and what is acceptable today in the work place. Many could care less if you or I don't particualrly care for their view of what we consider proper or acceptable. 'Country Club Casual' today, will certainly be different in the coming years.

 

The cruise lines will have to flex as time evolves to accomodate a completely new generation of upper market clientele simply because the younger generations perception of acceptable dress is potentially different. I can say this, it will be interesting to witness... that is if I live long enough! Oh yeah, and one more time... 'Cause every girl crazy 'bout a sharp dressed man... and every guy crazy 'bout a well dressed gal! Well then, maybe there is hope after all! ;)

 

Sorry as one of the "younger generation" I'm going to have to take issue with that comment. :D

 

But seriously, is that what is really happening here, relaxed dress codes because of younger generations? The research I've done on Oceania indicates the crowd is generally "older generation" with average cruiser age well north of 60 years of age. The O CEO was even quoted as saying their average age was 67 and their target market was total net worth of $1 million or something to that effect. Has their target demo changed that much in recent years?

 

Personally, I've seen plenty of the "older generation" that doesn't seem to care about style and appearance and are perfectly happy in their golf attire 24/7/365 with button down short sleeve dress shirts, cargo pants and Crocs, but now I guess I'm overly generalizing. :) Meanwhile, the hipster millenial dandies I see in around the DC metro and I would guess, most large metro cities, are the trendy ones that have been watching too much Mad Men/Suits and leading the current resurgence of style with slimmer cut pants and jackets, pocket squares, moustaches, pomade etc. ie. all the stuff that WASN'T on trend during the fashion backward decades of the 70s, 80s and 90s.

 

 

In fact, I'm willing to bet the younger generation that might go on a cruise full of young singles like Celebrity X with more of a party culture make much more of an effort to dress to impress and stay on trend, but that's just my general guess.....

[robbie21]

Two points itguymd:

 

You are correct that the current Oceania market is north of 60. But they (we) are dying off. The new target is not Millenials but baby boomers (dob 46-64) not the much younger generations. The boomers have the time and money to cruise.

Secondly, we still have the geographical variations. Here in the Northwest the Millenials are into t shirts, jeans and fleece. Actually, everyone is. I think your generalization about Millenials is wrong.

 

Robbie

 

 

 

Sent from my SM-G900V using Forums mobile app

[ITGuyMD]

Two points itguymd:

 

You are correct that the current Oceania market is north of 60. But they (we) are dying off. The new target is not Millenials but baby boomers (dob 46-64) not the much younger generations. The boomers have the time and money to cruise.

Secondly, we still have the geographical variations. Here in the Northwest the Millenials are into t shirts, jeans and fleece. Actually, everyone is. I think your generalization about Millenials is wrong.

 

Robbie

 

 

 

Sent from my SM-G900V using Forums mobile app

 

I'm not sure where I'm off here, Baby Boomers are going to be roughly 50-70, which is right on target for Oceania's roughly 60+ AVG age. Is this the "younger generation" people are referring to? The downside of that conclusion is that most of Oceania's target market is actually what many seem to be complaining about in terms of dress code and it will only get worse for at least a few decades. :D

 

As for NW Millenials, I'm sure they fall more on the hipster end of the spectrum than the dandy end, but they probably still spend more time grooming their rugged, yet metro, lumberjack bearded look (complete with conditioner and pomade) than previous decades. Still, it is without a doubt the Millenials that have brought style back to a point where clothing actually fits compared to the 70s, 80s, 90s, and as someone caught between those X/Y/Millenial generations, I thank them for it!

[MinxInWA]

Beth, that's too bad! We definitely chose Oceania because it seemed LESS casual ;) I was just having a bit of fun about the sandal issue, and was actually thinking I'd better be throwing my spangly gowns in the bag. I see that's not required, but definitely not pleased to hear the hoi polloi slogging in to nosh in their dungarees. :o

[MinxInWA]

Wow, lots of new messages after I forgot to look for a few days ;) Interesting point about the age demographic. Delighted to know I still qualify as a pink cheeked lil' young one.

By the by, does anyone know how to close a thread, or delete it? Would rather put this to rest, but ....

[Mura]

I don't think you can put it to rest. That's up to the mods!

 

But as now one of the seniors on the list -- I remember being younger, sigh -- I haven't seen that the dress code has disintegrated. It CAN depend on the itinerary ... the Caribbean is always most casual.

 

I've mentioned this before, but we had dinner with a lovely couple in the GDR one night -- don't remember the ship -- the husband's first question was about the dress code. Because he was in a suit and tie and he could see that no other man was. So I told him, no, you don't need to do that. We saw him the next evening in one of the specialty restaurants and he'd already dispensed with the jacket and tie.

 

But he didn't come in holey jeans or shorts!

 

I like to dress nicely (not formally) even in the GDR. IF we are tired and don't want to bother we either order in to our suite (yes, we are suite people, sorry about that) or go up to the buffet.

 

All of the dinner venues are fine, at least by us.

 

Mura

[LHT28]

I guess I have been on the wrong cruises

I have only seen a handful of pax on O that dressed down for dinner

One man was turned away from the GDR in shorts

one younger person was in those designer jeans that I would have toss in the bin but that was during the day so jeans of any description pass it seems

Have not seen overalls so far

For the most part I think people that sail on Oceania have good idea how to dress appropriately

 

JMO

[sandasavi]

I would consider myself on the younger side of the O cruisers. 41!! I haven't been on my first Cruise but will be in less than 2 weeks. Here is what I have packed. 4 dress for dinner. 4 pairs of capri pants, 1 pair of shorts, 6 tops and that modest and all but 1 with sleeves, 4 3/4 length sleeved sweaters, 2 one piece bathing suits with a cover up dress to match, 5 pair of shoes and 1 set of work out clothes. My husband plans to bring mostly long pants, button down dress shirts, 2 pair of shorts, a couple of t-shirts (no logos), workout clothes, 2 dress shoes, 1 pair of casual sneakers, running shoes, 2 pair of dress slacks, a vest and one tie. My Son (11yo) has 6 pair of button down dress shirts and 4 pair of khaki slacks, 1 pair of dress shoes, 4 pair of shorts (that go past his knees), t-shirts (no logos), 3 pair of athletic style shorts and tee, athletic shoes. I would never go on a trip to Europe and look like trash. This is how we choose to dress, not for anyone else but ourselves. This is with in our normal dress attire. My Son, attends private school and is used to a uniform. He like to look nice but also like a more casual style at home or for playing. I think its truly disrespectful not to respect the dress code, why is it an issue. But, I don't plan to scrutinize other guest attire and plan to enjoy my cruise with my family. If other choose to barely make the dress code that is their choice. But, I now I will be within dress code and be happy with my choice of dress.

[cephelapodia]

Okay, I'm very late to this party but have been agonizing over these threads.

 

I have no idea what country club casual or elegant casual actually mean. I don't belong to a country club. I work in tech. Elegance does not apply. Shoes are pretty much the minimum standard of civilization.

 

I have three kinds of clothes:

 

* Don't wear it out of the house

* Wear it to work

* Wear it to conferences

 

The conference wear is slightly dressy slacks with plain tops (not T-shirts) and plain closed leather shoes (not pumps). Black wool Banana Republic slacks with a white Gap bateau neck knit top and black leather shoes, for example. Where I live, this would pass muster in any restaurant I can think of.

 

The office wear is either Capris and sandals with a good pedicure (summer) or jeans and plain closed leather shoes (winter), with the same plain tops.

 

I know the jeans are out for dinner, but still have no idea about what I'm supposed to wear. Is business casual okay for women? West coast business casual, because apparently that's a thing, too.

 

I'm about at the point where I just plan to have dinner delivered every night because it's stressing me the heck out.

[patzimbo]

I don't think you can put it to rest. That's up to the mods!

 

But as now one of the seniors on the list -- I remember being younger, sigh -- I haven't seen that the dress code has disintegrated. It CAN depend on the itinerary ... the Caribbean is always most casual.

 

I've mentioned this before, but we had dinner with a lovely couple in the GDR one night -- don't remember the ship -- the husband's first question was about the dress code. Because he was in a suit and tie and he could see that no other man was. So I told him, no, you don't need to do that. We saw him the next evening in one of the specialty restaurants and he'd already dispensed with the jacket and tie.

 

But he didn't come in holey jeans or shorts!

 

I like to dress nicely (not formally) even in the GDR. IF we are tired and don't want to bother we either order in to our suite (yes, we are suite people, sorry about that) or go up to the buffet.

 

All of the dinner venues are fine, at least by us.

 

Mura

I feel as if I know you Mura, having read so many wonderfully balanced, humourous, intelligent, well thought out replies to many postings on this board. I just wish you were on our upcoming cruise on the Riviera in July (Lisbon to Venice) as I would love to meet you. We have sailed on HAL, MSC, plus Tauck river boats, and the dress code varies in all of them. Sadly it has never put me off my food or drink. ;)

Thank you for the input and don't ever change!