Tipping (sorry!)

[majortom10]

End of the day Americans have a different view on gratuities/tips or whatever you want to call it than UK cruisers. Aggressive trolling on many forums by people accusing people that remove tips and pay in cash at end of cruise as a reward or as some do not pay at all saying they are "stiffing" staff is not helpful or right. What anyone does is nothing to do with anyone else and is no concern of theirs and they wouldnt have a clue what anyone tips in a hotel. As I see it I will tip at the end of the cruise in cash to people I think have deserved it and those that don't I will not. End of the day it is the companies responsibility to pay staff a decent wage without having to rely on tips whether it be a cruise ship, hotel or restaurant to boost staffs wages to a decent level. In the UK there is a minimum wage of £7.05 per hour for 21-24yr olds and over 24 it is £7-50 anything less is illegal and so therefore they do not have to rely on tips to get an acceptable wage and any tips is a bonus so therefore away from major cities tipping is not widely expected or given as the norm.

[Teddy123]

Everyone will make their own decision about what to do, and form their own opinion about whether others are acting in an appropriate and fair manner.

[Solent Richard]

Never understood the ideology of pre paying gratuities like you can on many cruise lines. The idea of gratuities/tips is a reward for good service and for the life of me cannot see the logic when you don't know how good a service you will receive.

 

The 'logic' was actually more a 'traditional' practice and cruise tipping should in no way, in my opinion, be jumbled up with shoreside restaurant, hairdresser, etc tipping.

 

Of course, as the popularity of cruising has expanded, particularly on this side of the Atlantic, so the 'tradition' has been questioned, and given more prominence, particularly through the advent of the internet and boards such as CruiseCritic.

 

Paying 'in advance' was merely a tool by which the cruise lines either:-

 

a. Increased their cash flow while giving a convenient service to customers.

 

b. Made a genuine effort to negate the more commonly used criticism of gratuities being a hidden cost.

 

Meanwhile the arguments will go on.

[Solent Richard]

End of the day Americans have a different view on gratuities/tips or whatever you want to call it than UK cruisers. Aggressive trolling on many forums by people accusing people that remove tips and pay in cash at end of cruise as a reward or as some do not pay at all saying they are "stiffing" staff is not helpful or right. What anyone does is nothing to do with anyone else and is no concern of theirs and they wouldnt have a clue what anyone tips in a hotel. As I see it I will tip at the end of the cruise in cash to people I think have deserved it and those that don't I will not. End of the day it is the companies responsibility to pay staff a decent wage without having to rely on tips whether it be a cruise ship, hotel or restaurant to boost staffs wages to a decent level. In the UK there is a minimum wage of £7.05 per hour for 21-24yr olds and over 24 it is £7-50 anything less is illegal and so therefore they do not have to rely on tips to get an acceptable wage and any tips is a bonus so therefore away from major cities tipping is not widely expected or given as the norm.

 

'...Aggressive trolling on many forums by people accusing people that remove tips and pay in cash at end of cruise as a reward or as some do not pay at all saying they are "stiffing" staff is not helpful or right. What anyone does is nothing to do with anyone else and is no concern of theirs and they wouldnt have a clue what anyone tips in a hotel."

 

I'm afraid I cannot agree with you there Major.

 

In my experience it is the more genuine cruisers and not 'trolls' who attempt to explain the 'tradition' and reasoning behind gratuities.

 

And as regards tipping at hotels, and particularly those in the Asia, hotels operate the + + system where the first '+' is the local tax and the second '+' is the 'Service charge'.

[Solent Richard]

In the US that's not the case with NCL. They call it a daily "service charge" and it can no longer be removed on board. To request removal of the daily service charge one has to get a form from their purser, fill it out, and state what was the specific service failure and how was it not resolved. It than has to be imaged and emailed to a shore side office. (Imagine that thread when their new policy was announced! Those who routinely stiff the crew really "outed" themselves!)

 

Oh for Cunard to follow the NCL example.

[insanemagnet]

The 'logic' was actually more a 'traditional' practice and cruise tipping should in no way, in my opinion, be jumbled up with shoreside restaurant, hairdresser, etc tipping.

 

You are correct in your view, but the principal actor in making people think it is a 'tip' are the cruise companies themselves by their talk of rewarding good service, etc.

 

Of course, as the popularity of cruising has expanded, particularly on this side of the Atlantic, so the 'tradition' has been questioned, and given more prominence, particularly through the advent of the internet and boards such as CruiseCritic.

 

And rightly so.

 

Should underpaying your staff and relying on customers to make up their pay to a decent level exist in this day and age?

 

Should you advertise one price but expect your customers to pay a (hidden) additional amount on top, with the emotional blackmail that if you don't you have 'stiffed' the staff.

 

Frankly if there is a bad guy in this scenario, it is the cruise company who is both 'stiffing' their staff with Victorian contracts and doing a 'rogue trader' on its customers.

 

Cruise companies should do the decent thing and abandon outdated and anachronistic 'tradition' and be honest with everyone.

[BlueRiband]

.....Cruise companies should do the decent thing and abandon outdated and anachronistic 'tradition' and be honest with everyone.

 

I'd go along with that. Now you just have to convince your fellow passengers not to defect to P&O or Celebrity should Cunard be the first line to do so.

[insanemagnet]

I'd go along with that. Now you just have to convince your fellow passengers not to defect to P&O or Celebrity should Cunard be the first line to do so.

 

Or any of the other tour operators, hotels, and airlines who are not 'stiffing' their staff with antiquated contracts and pretending to their customers they are offering something cheaper than it is.

 

So what is the solution? Rumour has it that NCL only introduced their 'tips included; policy for the UK and Europe because so many people were not paying them when voluntary.

[majortom10]

You are correct in your view, but the principal actor in making people think it is a 'tip' are the cruise companies themselves by their talk of rewarding good service, etc.

 

 

 

And rightly so.

 

Should underpaying your staff and relying on customers to make up their pay to a decent level exist in this day and age?

 

Should you advertise one price but expect your customers to pay a (hidden) additional amount on top, with the emotional blackmail that if you don't you have 'stiffed' the staff.

 

Frankly if there is a bad guy in this scenario, it is the cruise company who is both 'stiffing' their staff with Victorian contracts and doing a 'rogue trader' on its customers.

 

Cruise companies should do the decent thing and abandon outdated and anachronistic 'tradition' and be honest with everyone.

 

Very well said.

[Solent Richard]

You are correct in your view, but the principal actor in making people think it is a 'tip' are the cruise companies themselves by their talk of rewarding good service, etc.

 

 

 

And rightly so.

 

Should underpaying your staff and relying on customers to make up their pay to a decent level exist in this day and age?

 

Should you advertise one price but expect your customers to pay a (hidden) additional amount on top, with the emotional blackmail that if you don't you have 'stiffed' the staff.

 

Frankly if there is a bad guy in this scenario, it is the cruise company who is both 'stiffing' their staff with Victorian contracts and doing a 'rogue trader' on its customers.

 

Cruise companies should do the decent thing and abandon outdated and anachronistic 'tradition' and be honest with everyone.

 

Firstly, and particularly in the case of Cunard, the honesty is not in doubt. Page 267 of my current ' August 2016 - May 2018 clearly lays out the tipping policy.

 

Secondly, as has already been mentioned, not all cruise companies follow this pattern. With one exception they are all at the top end of cruising and their basic price reflects their marketing statements that 'tipping is not required.

 

The old adage still stands. If you are unhappy with these policies then you can always vote with your feet. I'd be more than happy to recommend a number of cruise lines where 'tipping' is not required and the quality of service is exemplary.

 

[insanemagnet]

Firstly, and particularly in the case of Cunard, the honesty is not in doubt. Page 267 of my current ' August 2016 - May 2018 clearly lays out the tipping policy.

 

Not exactly part of the booking process though is it. More like putting​ the information in the basement behind a door marked "beware of the leopard".

 

Wouldn't it be better if when you got to the "this is the total you have to pay" when making a booking it at least showed a "plus £x onboard as a service charge"?

[ToadOfToadHall]

It was on display in the bottom of a locked filing cabinet stuck in a disused lavatory with a sign on the door saying ‘Beware of the Leopard' !

[Pennbank]

I see that Queen Victoria is showing on the On Board Statement 'Service Charge' instead of Auto Gratuities. In line with P&O

[ajenkinson]

I agree with Teddy123. You can't see the hardworking folks in the background. I do understand a trip being more expensive than anticipated. For future cruises, you might want to do prepaid gratuities right up front with the price of the cruise. We do that and then we give our face to face folks a little extra in envelopes on the last day.

 

 

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Hi,

 

Do you mind me asking what a "little extra" to your face to face folks includes? We are new to crusising and have included gratuity on the front end but our last cruise I felt like I needed to give a little extra. If you don't feel comfortable sharing I understand.

[Solent Richard]

Not exactly part of the booking process though is it. More like putting​ the information in the basement behind a door marked "beware of the leopard".

 

Wouldn't it be better if when you got to the "this is the total you have to pay" when making a booking it at least showed a "plus £x onboard as a service charge"?

 

Hi InsaneMagnet.

 

I don't mind debating any issue but after 1053 posts by you on here I'm beginning t feel I'm preaching to the converted.

[cbelc]

Hi,

 

 

 

Do you mind me asking what a "little extra" to your face to face folks includes? We are new to crusising and have included gratuity on the front end but our last cruise I felt like I needed to give a little extra. If you don't feel comfortable sharing I understand.

 

 

$10 - $25 each for our room steward, our 2 wait staff, the matre de (because this individual helps with our food allergy issue), and anyone else who went above and beyond for us.

 

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Forums

[saltydog28]

Teddy,

Are you saying that I should OR that I should not tip the room service breakfast server every day.

[BklynBoy8]

Teddy,

Are you saying that I should OR that I should not tip the room service breakfast server every day.

 

We just came off the QM2 yesterday and did use Room Service.

 

Coming back from a Halifax Tour we were still hungry boarding and instead of going to KC we ordered from Room Service. Calling RS, we ordered quite a number of items from entrées, dessert and couple a pots of tea. We were informed of a 30 - 40 minute wait. We took this as others were returning and also ordering.

 

Well we were surprised and happy when the door knocked in 14-18 minutes. Yes we did tip the Server for the efficient service. All the items were hot and properly prepared.

 

We do now and in the past show an appreciation of the efficient service.

[Salacia]

It was on display in the bottom of a locked filing cabinet stuck in a disused lavatory with a sign on the door saying ‘Beware of the Leopard' !

 

Paw joke.

[Salacia]

Teddy,

Are you saying that I should OR that I should not tip the room service breakfast server every day.

 

Saltydog, tip or not, that is your decision. Yikes, it's not that hard, is it? If you don't have good service, or if you don't have a few extra dollars to spare, then don't tip.

[Trevor Fountain]

This whole business of gratuities is farcical. We all know it goes to make up the crew's wages. However anybody who accuses fare paying passengers of stiffing the staff is way out of order. Why? Because it is 100% the Cruise Lines that are stiffing their employees.

Look at a yearly program of cruises. Not every cruise has the same number of passengers. Therefore what happens to the crews wages? I'm talking of the amount that is made up with gratuities. Less passengers must mean less wages, right?

When somebody signs up to work on a ship, they ought to know what their salary will be. Some staff who deal directly with the public, i.e. Cabin Stewards, Bar Staff, Waiters etc., may still receive tips, however why the heck should we worry about the butcher, the baker and the candlestick maker. It's not my fault they earn what they earn. It is a matter between them and their employer.

Through unforeseen circumstances I am currently in a relatively poor paying job, within the service industry. I don't deal directly with the public, but the industry wouldn't function as well without me. Some people on the front end receive tips, I don't. That's life. I knew that before I took the job.

It is time the Cruise industry fell into line with society, and if cruises cost more, so be it, at least we wouldn't get ridiculous comments like "you're stiffing the staff when you don't pay the gratuity".

[luckymal]

This whole business of gratuities is farcical. We all know it goes to make up the crew's wages. However anybody who accuses fare paying passengers of stiffing the staff is way out of order. Why? Because it is 100% the Cruise Lines that are stiffing their employees.

Look at a yearly program of cruises. Not every cruise has the same number of passengers. Therefore what happens to the crews wages? I'm talking of the amount that is made up with gratuities. Less passengers must mean less wages, right?

When somebody signs up to work on a ship, they ought to know what their salary will be. Some staff who deal directly with the public, i.e. Cabin Stewards, Bar Staff, Waiters etc., may still receive tips, however why the heck should we worry about the butcher, the baker and the candlestick maker. It's not my fault they earn what they earn. It is a matter between them and their employer.

Through unforeseen circumstances I am currently in a relatively poor paying job, within the service industry. I don't deal directly with the public, but the industry wouldn't function as well without me. Some people on the front end receive tips, I don't. That's life. I knew that before I took the job.

It is time the Cruise industry fell into line with society, and if cruises cost more, so be it, at least we wouldn't get ridiculous comments like "you're stiffing the staff when you don't pay the gratuity".

I am 100% in your comments, I do like the Americans and America but if you go on holiday there, you need a lots of 1 dollar bills, most people expect a tip if they do something for you, same on the ships if it is part of the job so be it. The problems are the management for screwing the staff as most people think, but do we know what a Steward or a Waiter are paid, if we did we may have a different opinion on tipping.

[BlueRiband]

....It is time the Cruise industry fell into line with society, and if cruises cost more, so be it, at least we wouldn't get ridiculous comments like "you're stiffing the staff when you don't pay the gratuity".

 

The moment Cunard or any other cruise line is the first to adopt this "all in" pricing policy they immediately look more expensive than their competitors. And they immediately lose business to those competitors.

 

 

You said you worked in the service industry as a non-tipped employee and knew that when you took the job. But your job must pay very well as your signature indicates that you are sailing on Queen Victoria this November.

[Trevor Fountain]

The moment Cunard or any other cruise line is the first to adopt this "all in" pricing policy they immediately look more expensive than their competitors. And they immediately lose business to those competitors.

 

 

You said you worked in the service industry as a non-tipped employee and knew that when you took the job. But your job must pay very well as your signature indicates that you are sailing on Queen Victoria this November.

 

I still have savings which subsidises my luxuries, but I can assure you my current job is poorly paid.

I understand what you say about competition and the perception of higher fares, but that would be up to their marketing to show how, in fact, their fares "are" competitive when gratuities are not added.

That said, I don't see anything changing anytime soon, after all most of the lines are American owned, and it is that culture that is driving the structure as is. It's just my own opinion that it is wrong.

[balf]

The moment Cunard or any other cruise line is the first to adopt this "all in" pricing policy they immediately look more expensive than their competitors. And they immediately lose business to those competitors.

 

 

You said you worked in the service industry as a non-tipped employee and knew that when you took the job. But your job must pay very well as your signature indicates that you are sailing on Queen Victoria this November.

 

I've heard this before and I don't believe it. The cruising public would be pretty stupid if they could not work out the difference in value between a no tips cruise and one where tips were extra. The only ones to lose out would be the passengers who don't pay tips. The ones who are, under the present system stiffing the rest of us.

 

David