Oosterdam dining time changes for this week

[BEAV]

I to am a bit upset but.....they main problem looks to be for those that choose Late Seating or aka Main Seating. We always choose to eat at Early Lower 6:15 seating. While yes it is earlier than I like it looks like the problem with tablemates will not be that big of deal and we should be able to have our requested table and same tablemates every night. My guess is this will not trickle down to the other ships and they will play with this a while on the Oosterdam. The only other ships they could possibly decide to do this with is the Zuirderdam and the Westerdam while they are doing the Caribbean. I think HAL feels that the Vista Class is drawing a younger new to cruising crowd and want to try to please them so they will return. I will agree that the Vista Class does draw far more younger and newer HAL passengers. If this does become successful on the Oosterdam and they keep it for the Oosterdam they will just need to advise those booking that if they want traditional seating they need to request Early.

 

Bingo.

 

We came away from a 7-nighter aboard Westerdam feeling the same way. The HAL Vista class is in place to draw (and hopefully retain) new, younger blood. Speaking only for myself, I fall into the traditional HAL crowd, so it shouldn't come as a shock that we decided any future cruises would be aboard R or S class ships on itineraries longer than 7 nights. Although I hate to see HAL gravitating toward this so-called "leisure dining" policy, us oldsters do need to keep in mind that HAL needs to recruit new, younger blood. So the way I see it is we have the best of both worlds, unless HAL implements such a system across the board. Somehow, I doubt that will happen on the R & S class ships. But it seems pretty clear to me HAL believes they must make changes in order to recruit and retain the Mariner of tomorrow.

[RevNeal]

arzz, I agree. I have tolerated the 4 dining times ... I don't mind them, but can't say I really like them. I understand WHY they exist ... it helps the kitchen to operate with a slightly smaller staff. I'd rather go back to 2 dining times.

[Atomica]

Thanks for posting those replies, RevNeal. Quite honestly the whole experiment sounds a little overly complicated. People switching tables, times, actual dining room LEVELS...

 

One particular 'scenario' seemed interesting - a couple comes and takes over the two empty seats from a couple who've dined at the Pinnacle that evening. So what if the replacement couple decides they don't want to move? And the regular couple come back from the Pinnacle the next evening, or even return to the dining room after their seats have been given away? It could happen, and I'd be pretty annoyed if it did.

 

As for Freestyle, on my Norwegian Sun sailing this year the biggest problem with it was that maybe 40% of the ship dressed for formal night. Maybe. The rest? The worst offenders wore baseball caps. One dining room was supposed to be formal, the other informal, but it just didn't work that way. The quality of food in the main dining rooms went down, possibly to ensure people always filled the alternate restaraunts (good, but pricey).

 

I'm sure that HAL is trying this with the best of intentions - but I have to agree with Finnjet - as a relative HAL 'newbie', it seems pretty complicated.

[kryos]

But Greg, from what I read in another post it's more of a "modified Cunard" in that the Maitre 'd can re-assign at will so an entire table is at the same point.

It gets worserer and worserer. :(

I get the same feeling. They're not gonna have everyone at the table on dessert and then seat someone who arrives later at the same table. It would be too cumbersome for the waiters. I think RevNeal is right ... the only way to make this work is for the whole table to agree to show up at the same time and then meet up outside the dining room before going in together as a group. Otherwise, the latecomer or two will probably be seated somewhere else ... with others arriving at the same time.

 

Also, if HAL truly adopts the "freestyle" concept, I think formal dress will eventually become optional as well. At least that's how I understand it is on NCL. There is a certain standard to be upheld in the dniing rooms ... country club casual ... but I don't think formal is ever actually required.

 

Fortunately, I don't think this dining concept will ever be adopted fleetwide. HAL's major customer base would never adapt to it. But I do see it one day possibly being in force on the Vista class ships ... those ships catering to the family crowd.

 

Of course, it's all gonna depend on the feedback received from the passengers taking part in the test. If they love it ... and from what I hear, the majority do like it ... then HAL diehards would be better off booking other ships in the fleet.

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

[kryos]

I'm sure that HAL is trying this with the best of intentions - but I have to agree with Finnjet - as a relative HAL 'newbie', it seems pretty complicated.

If HAL goes truly "freestyle" dining, it won't be complicated at all. You enter the dining room within the assigned window. If you have a large group, you request a table for yourselves and that request is probably easily accommodated. However, if you are a couple, a single, or maybe a pair of couples, you have a choice ... you can either wait for a smaller table to open up (there are only so many two and four-tops to go around), or you are seated at a large table with other folks arriving in the dining room at the same time. Once that table is full, the waiter can begin taking orders and everyone can be served the same courses at the same time.

 

In theory this would go like clockwork and people wouldn't be upset by it at all. But, the only problem is that unless you have a group you are traveling with ... a group that could easily fill a large table on their own ... you are gonna sit with different folks every night ... no chance to develop relationships with your dining companions because they could very well be different every night.

 

The point of this concept that I don't like is that it really sucks for singles. You basically have two choices ... dine alone (and wait for possibly a good while for a smaller table to become available) or be shoved in with a larger group. This will be a coin toss for the single because she could wind up at a larger table with three couples all traveling together and who were seated at a table for eight. Now the single is the odd one out and if those couples decide to exclude her from their conversation, she is pretty much stuck.

 

Frankly, before I put myself in this situation, I'd eat in the Lido every night. I have always preferred traditional dining on HAL because they tend to seat all the singles together. This allows for some bonding, or at the very least a chance to see some familiar faces at the end of the day ... and to swap stories with.

 

Guess I won't be sailing the Oosterdam anytime soon if this dining concept takes hold.

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

[tooalto]

I have to chime in on this as well. We are booked for the Noordam on Sep. 8, 2006. I certainly hope the whole issue is finalized by that point and NOT for "freestyle" dining. In our previous cruises, my husband and I have jhad a table for at the 6 or 6:15 seating. We are not on a cruise to meet new friends, just to relax and enjoy each other's company. We do make conversation with others guests but to sit a t a large table each evening is not our thing. Even worse would being plopped with different people every night, trying to think of something to say. I work with the public and , if my husband and I chose not to say a word during dinner, that's just fine with me. We are comfortable with each other. We aren't snobs or elitist, we just enjoy quiet dinners adn our own small talk.

[Grumpy1]

tooalto... in your case, the new concept should work well. You will be confirmed for early dining and a small table will be assigned. A quick check when boarding will confirm whether or not it is a table for two, and, if not, ask the Maitre' D to correct it. No one else would be given that table during that dining time unless you had informed the Maitre D that you would not be there on a particular night. The only change for you would be that you have a little longer window of time to come to the dining room.

 

The larger tables is where this is going to get tricky. If the individuals and/or couples are not acquainted prior to the cruise, there will be a lot of confusion, especially on late seating with the long window of time. trying to get the group of strangers coordinated to a time is going to require someone to take charge of the situation and anyone trying to assume a leadership role will probably ruffle the feathers of some of the others.

 

I think HAL is assuming (wrongly IMHO) that most of the people requesting large tables are already acquainted and will work things out and that the Maitre D can sort out the few problems remaining.

 

We really enjoy large tables and it has always been with total strangers. The bonds usually don't form until the second or third night though, and I'm afraid that this concept is going to make it less likely that we will get to know our first night tablemates well.

[Starbright]

See the posting on this thread that mentions dining arrangements last week - I think you'll all be pleased!:)

 

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=261394

[cruisldy]

I have been reading this thread with interest ever since it started as we sail on the Oosterdam for the New Year's cruise.

 

Thank you revneal for composing those E-mails to the powers that be with the very same concerns that we have to this experiment, except my husband and myself prefer to dine alone at a two person table, latest dining time of 8:30PM, for which we have been confirmed on our cruise documents and are hoping, if what I am reading in your response E-mail, from the Ship's Service Manager, that we will indeed be accomodated at this traditional time and size.

 

We, unlike yoursef, only have 5 HAL cruises under our "seasoned cruiser" belts, but are hoping that they retain the traditional style and quit fooling around with this experiment.

 

When I hear someone say that the masses have spoken, in any fact gathering sense, I always wonder just who they have talked to. Certainly not myself, as the last time we sailed HAL on the Ryndam, and had the normal two dining room settings, I don't ever remember being stopped and asked if my preference would be to have four seatings. I guess all those that have just tolerated this type of dining do not either have a loud enough voice or they are not listening to opinions that don't suit their own way of change.

 

Once again, I appreciate you taking the time to E-mail on behalf of those of us upset by these changes and hoping that they indeed listen to those that count, and not those who have just cruised on HAL once and then moved on, making changes hard on the loyalists.

[RuthC]

Thank you, Greg, for sending and posting those e-mails; they were enlightening, to say the least.

 

It appears that the HAL passengers are breaking down into two camps---the traditional group (such as has posted here) and the newer people HAL is trying to attract. If HAL only tests on this newer group of cruisers they are not getting the full range of opinion on which to make an ultimate decision. (And did you notice one of the letters said "when" the decision is implemented---not "if").

I could live with that if the ships also adopted a sort of HAL and HAL-lite concept---personal choice/freestyle/leisurely/as you will/whatever you want to call it dining on the Vista ships (HAL-lite) and a traditional approach on the S- and R-class ships and Prinsendam (HAL).

That's not likely to happen.

btw---Greg, when I said I was starting to feel sorry for those in Seattle delegated with answering the calls and letters I wasn't referring to Vice Presidents and such. I was thinking of the front-line people much further down on the food chain. They take the brunt of displeasure but have no say about it.

[sail7seas]

Of course, it's all gonna depend on the feedback received from the passengers taking part in the test. If they love it ... and from what I hear, the majority do like it ... then HAL diehards would be better off booking other ships in the fleet.

 

 

I am very curious about where you are hearing what the majority thinks about this. I haven't heard much about it anyplace but here. Are others discussing it?

 

 

[sail7seas]

Please add me to the list of those who tolerate the four seatings. To describe us as 'liking it' would be an overstatement. As long as we are assigned to the 8:00 seating, we can 'roll with the four seatings' but were we assigned any other dining time, we would be very unhappy ......and very vocal.

[gizmo]

Add me also to the list of those who only "Tolerate the 4 seatings".

[Ziggy7]

I understand change, but I think they should also accommodate us traditionalists and provide a traditional seating at least 2 times in the evening, one early and one late seating. Princess has both traditional and Personal Choice dinning arrangements and it seemed to work well for the pax. Our family likes to meet new people and getting to know our waiters (who make a cruise more enjoyable or not).

I think it’s important for the crew to be personable, fun and caring. When we tried the Personal Choice dinning on Princess, we were miserable to say the least; we met new people every night but never really got to spend much time getting to know them. 2 hours is not long enough especially when you are eating allot of that time and not chatting.

We had a different waiter every night and that was not pleasant, as they were so rushed, not one of them ever stayed and chatted or joked with us, it felt like being rushed to eat and move on. We had to ask and wait for our Ice tea and soda every night, instead of having our waiter have it waiting for us at traditional seating.

Let’s face it; a big part of the cruising experience is dinning and the shows! For this purpose we have chosen to return to HAL but if we can not get traditional dinning then we will go else where :(

 

 

I sure hope HAL is listening to this thread!

..........

[kryos]

[i could live with that if the ships also adopted a sort of HAL and HAL-lite concept---personal choice/freestyle/leisurely/as you will/whatever you want to call it dining on the Vista ships (HAL-lite) and a traditional approach on the S- and R-class ships and Prinsendam (HAL). That's not likely to happen.

Why not? The Vista ships generally cater to families ... and they are larger. The smaller ships ... the ones that do more extended itineraries ... more expensive ones ... and thus don't get a lot of the family group ... probably will be handled differently in terms of dining. HAL will want to keep that group of cruisers happy and will probably stick with traditional dining. After all, the dining rooms and staff on those ships may not be large enough to handle both forms of dining.

 

Also, if anyone is yelling for this "leisure dining" concept, it will be people traveling with their kids. Who wants to come back from all day at a beach and have to rush to get the kids ready for early seating? They, if anyone, are the people who are registering their pleasure with "leisure dining." The HAL regulars want everything left well enough alone ... I am sure of that.

 

So, why can't HAL have one kind of dining on the larger ships, and another on the smaller ones ... especially if what is being offered is pleasing to the unique type of cruiser served by each?

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

[kryos]

 

 

I am very curious about where you are hearing what the majority thinks about this. I haven't heard much about it anyplace but here. Are others discussing it?

 

 

There was a post ... right on this board ... that stated that the comment cards received from the first week "leisure dining" was tried were overwhelmingly favorable toward it. Of course, one cruise is no indication ... but it could be a trend in the making. I think I read something in the post that said the passengers on that sailing were "overwhelmingly favorable" in their reactions to the new dining times.

 

Sadly, a lot of cruisers prefer the flexibility of anytime dining. NCL built a whole brand on the concept. When I read the post indicating that HAL had received favorable comments on "leisure dining," I was not in the least bit surprised. In actuality, "leisure dining" can be the same as traditional ... as long as you have your group you are traveling with. You can always request the same table, same waitstaff, same time. In effect, you've converted "leisure dining" right back into traditional.

 

It's only people like me ... the rare solo cruiser ... who is gonna get hurt by this. And, I think we're rare enough that frankly, I doubt HAL would much care.

 

Fortunately, though, on the more extended cruises ... smaller ships ... I tend to be more in the majority. Many of the cruisers are either couples traveling alone or singles ... and most are older and prefer traditional. So, I guess I won't be sailing the Vista class ships anymore if this dining concept does, in fact, take hold.

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

[RevNeal]

It appears that the HAL passengers are breaking down into two camps---the traditional group (such as has posted here) and the newer people HAL is trying to attract. If HAL only tests on this newer group of cruisers they are not getting the full range of opinion on which to make an ultimate decision. (And did you notice one of the letters said "when" the decision is implemented---not "if").

 

Correct, Ruth. Based upon the e-mails I have received from HAL officials on this subject, I have come to the conclusion that it is not a matter of "if" this new dining scheme will be implemented, but "when." Oh, details may differ some here and there, but from what I have read in the e-mails from the Director of Ships Services, that's just a matter of fine tuning. Regardless of the voiced opposition of what will probably be a large percentage of their long-time Mariners, it is pretty much a foregone conclusions that sometime in 2006 HAL will be going to this "Flexible Arrival Time" Dining schedule, in which arrival for the second seating will open from 7:45 - 9 pm, with assigned tables and the freedom to be seated with another table if lone passengers, or smaller groups of passengers, so-choose. We can either accommodate ourselves to this change, and try to make the dining experience as traditional as possible by coming to a table-concensus on what our dining time will be, or we can take our dollars to another cruise line that has a more traditional seating arrangement. For our "Voyage of the Spammed" Group Cruise (as well as for our friends on the Westerdam's "HAL-O-Ween Dam Cruise") it will be a simple matter to have our table groups plan, ahead of time, on what time they want. Second seating tables could agree on 8 pm, for example ... and ask for 3 big tables of 8 out in the middle of the lower section. While the Zaandam will be on this Flexible dining system, at least our tables would meet at the same time every night, hence preserving a modicum of the traditional flare.

 

After that, however, I wonder how many more cruises I'll be taking on HAL. I'm always willing to try new things ... if I'm going to be forced to dump my traditional preferences on HAL, why not dump HAL too? It would appear that HAL is doing this to accommodate newer cruisers who have been coming to the line but who don't like HAL's traditional style. Rather than teach people about the traditional style of cruising, HAL would appear to prefer dumping their traditional style and the preferences of their loyal Mariners in order to ease the acquisition of a broader cruise base. I don't blame them for seeking that economic advantage, but to do so at the cost of making HAL a carbon copy of all the other cruise lines -- i.e., dumping that which made HAL elegant and won the loyalty of many thousands of Mariners -- reflects a remarkable disregard for the Lines history, tradition, and those who stuck with the Line through much thin. If HAL is willing to dump us in order to gain a larger cruising base, then perhaps we should just dump HAL and gain a wider cruising experience. In other words, if they have such little appreciation for their long-standing Mariners -- and their flagrant disregard for our opinions in this matter demonstrate their lack of appreciation -- why should we have any loyalty to them?

 

Up until now I've only been toying with trying Raddisson and Crystal ... today, I've ordered a brochure from each. Perhaps they'll appreciate my dollars more than HAL?

[RevNeal]

Rita,

 

You are absolutely correct. Sad, but true.

[sail7seas]

It's only people like me ... the rare solo cruiser ... who is gonna get hurt by this. And, I think we're rare enough that frankly, I doubt HAL would much care.

 

We are among those who travel as a couple and very rarely with other people. Once in a while we may cruise with another couple (as we are this summer on Maasdam), but we mostly cruise on our own.

 

We will definitely suffer negatively when they institute this new dining plan....if it extends to all ships in the fleet. If it is only for the Vista ships, we can avoid cruising on them.

 

 

[RevNeal]

We will definitely suffer negatively when they institute this new dining plan....if it extends to all ships in the fleet. If it is only for the Vista ships, we can avoid cruising on them.

 

I'm not happy with this dining plan.

However, how will you suffer negatively when they institute this new dining plan?

As a single couple that usually wants to dine alone together, you'll have your table for 2 at your normal dining time. No difference.

[mechcc]

Kyros and Rev Neal - I feel your pain. Cruising is such an opportunity for singles to travel without the slap in the face "You are alone? Why?" on a constant basis. Admitily we are new cruisers, but do love cruising and the traditional dining. As a couple who cruise on their own, we love the friendliness of dining with the same people everynight. Would feel awkward asking newely met tablemates "What time shall we meet for dinner tomorrow night?"

[kryos]

We are among those who travel as a couple and very rarely with other people. Once in a while we may cruise with another couple (as we are this summer on Maasdam), but we mostly cruise on our own.

 

We will definitely suffer negatively when they institute this new dining plan....if it extends to all ships in the fleet. If it is only for the Vista ships, we can avoid cruising on them.

Sail ... believe me, I am PRAYING this concept only extends to the Vista class ships. Otherwise, I'm in big trouble too. I read RevNeal's post about trying Radisson or Crystal. Sadly, those lines are not an option for me ... not now anyway. If I were to sail Radisson, that would mean one cruise maybe every three years. Radisson's prices are MUCH higher, and while they include some things that HAL doesn't, those things are not that important to me (wine with dinner, etc.) ... and I really don't want to be forced to pay for them. In my case, it would be the lesser of two evils ... "leisure time" dining or being forced to pay a higher price. Frankly, I'd sooner sail a main stream line and eat in the Lido every night.

 

Let's keep our fingers (and everything else) crossed that this concept is only adopted on the Vista class ships ... or those ships serving the family cruiser ... such as Caribbean and Alaska itineraries of seven days. That will leave the rest of the fleet available for us traditionalists ... and then everyone will be happy. And, to be fair, I guess I can understand such a concept for families ... frankly, it would be a lot more convenient to have a window in which to dine, rather than a set time when you have maybe three kids to coordinate for dinner. So, it would make sense to restrict the concept to those ships and itineraries that appeal to families. I figure I can always substitute ten-day Panama Canal itineraries for the Caribbean ... and I have no desire to visit Alaska ... so I'll be in good shape. :)

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

[kryos]

I'm not happy with this dining plan.

However, how will you suffer negatively when they institute this new dining plan?

As a single couple that usually wants to dine alone together, you'll have your table for 2 at your normal dining time. No difference.

I would imagine there are only so many tables for two to go around. If you get to the dining room as a couple (or a single), you may have a half hour or so wait to get one of those two-tops. However, if you are willing to sit at that big ten-top over there ... with a bunch of other people ... you can be seated immediately. Would seem to me that smaller groups will almost be forced to join larger ones with this concept. Larger groups won't have a problem because they can fill a larger table (and these are plentiful) strictly with their own group. Hence, the smaller groups ... singles and couples traveling alone ... are gonna be almost forced to sit with others ... possibly cohesive groups ... and be the outcast at that night's dinner.

 

As a solo traveler, I don't like this concept one iota for specifically that reason. I don't like being made to feel like the odd one out. At least with traditional dining, if the group traveling together is large, it's no problem. They get their own table and no one else is assigned there. If the group is smaller, and they opt for (and receive) a smaller table, then they know going in that others will be joining them each night for dinner. There is also ample time to get to know one another over the course of the cruise, so dinner doesn't have to be an uncomfortable experience of getting to know a new group each night of the cruise.

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

[kryos]

Kyros and Rev Neal - I feel your pain. Cruising is such an opportunity for singles to travel without the slap in the face "You are alone? Why?" on a constant basis. Admitily we are new cruisers, but do love cruising and the traditional dining. As a couple who cruise on their own, we love the friendliness of dining with the same people everynight. Would feel awkward asking newely met tablemates "What time shall we meet for dinner tomorrow night?"

Cruising, at least to me, is the ONLY opportunity for a single to travel and feel comfortable.

 

For years, I never took vacations because I worked a lot and really didn't have a lot of friends who were single. When they went on vacations, naturally it was with their spouses and kids. The couple of other single friends I had were on tight budgets and could never afford the nicer vacations that I could due to working all those hours. :)

 

If "freestyle" dining becomes the standard of the cruise industry, then this one type of vacation where a single could feel comfortable will be taken away ... and that just sucks.

 

But, I'm staying optimistic. I think there will always be main stream cruise lines ... and even ships on the same line ... that will stick to the traditional way of doing things. I think us singles will be okay. We'll just have to stay away from certain ships.

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

[RevNeal]

I would imagine there are only so many tables for two to go around. If you get to the dining room as a couple (or a single), you may have a half hour or so wait to get one of those two-tops. However, if you are willing to sit at that big ten-top over there ... with a bunch of other people ... you can be seated immediately.

 

What you're suggesting doesn't reflect the "Flexible Arrival Time" Schedule as outlined by the Director of Ships Services. Under the new scheme all passengers will still be assigned tables, just like now. If Sail gets a table for 2 now, under the current system, she'll still be able to get a table for 2 under the new schedule. She won't have to wait because her table will be ready for her when she and her husband arrives at their traditionally scheduled time.

 

As for the numbers of tables ... true, the tables for 2 are a bit limited (though there are a lot more on the Vistas than on the S and R ships), but Sail has made it abundantly clear that she will only cruise in a Deluxe Suite, and one of the perks is guaranteed table assignment. So, a table for 2 for her is never a problem.

 

Would seem to me that smaller groups will almost be forced to join larger ones with this concept.

 

Only to the extent that they are currently forced to join with other groups. There are a lot of tables for 4 and tables for 6 ... more than tables for 10.

 

Larger groups won't have a problem because they can fill a larger table (and these are plentiful) strictly with their own group. Hence, the smaller groups ... singles and couples traveling alone ... are gonna be almost forced to sit with others ... possibly cohesive groups ... and be the outcast at that night's dinner.

 

Not quite. Singles are, indeed, the odd-ones out ... we can't eat alone because, frankly, there aren't enough tables to allow that. Hence, we'll always be forced to sit with others. But that's nothing new, and it's never been a problem for me ... I WANT to sit with others. And I've never had a problem in that regard ... the groups I've been with have always been great groups. The PROBLEM under the new timing system is that, as a single, I have no control over anyone else coming to the dining room. If I'm at a table for 6 -- 2 other couples and 1 other single -- and they all decide to eat at other times, or in the Pinnacle, or in the Lido, every night, I'm doomed to be the odd-guy-out and will be forced to move to another, different, table each and every night and eat with people I don't know. I'll be a "flying dutchman" on a Dutch ship, so to speak ... always drifting from table to table and group to group because my table mates never show up. As things are now, I could arrange a change to put me at another table, but under this system I'll only be able to go to tables where there are gaps because a couple is in the pinnacle that night, or some such other. With fewer gaps in the tables, and without everyone eating at the same time, that's the rub of this new schedule over the current system. And, to add insult to injury, i'll have to get up each time and move to a new table.

 

If "freestyle" dining becomes the standard of the cruise industry, then this one type of vacation where a single could feel comfortable will be taken away ... and that just sucks.

 

Rita, as I have been reminded HAL is not testing a "freestyle" dining system. They are testing a modified version of the Cunard system, where there are assigned tables for each passenger ... the "flexibility" is in the arrival time. If a couple or a single person shows up for a table for 8, and find they are alone, they will be moved to a table where a gap has developed due to passengers not showing up or being in the Pinnacle or what have you. It's this footballing that makes this system annoying.

 

I suppose the only thing that most people around here will be happy about with this new system is that there won't be a way to do the Baked Alaskan March ... not under this "Flexible time" system. Perhaps they'll still have Baked Alaskan, but it will be presented differently.