NCL Spirit Canaries & Casablanca - 18% Spanish Tax question

[BaWBarmy]

We had the UBP it was stated clearly on our Keycards, we were still charged the 10% on every beverage we had in Spanish waters. In our case I think over the whole trip it only came to about $5 each and it just went against the OBC we had, I didn't really think too much about it until I joined this thread.

 

NCL need to address this situation and inform their staff on board, because as far as I was concerned, on our Spirit cruise of Nov/Dec 2017 the 10% was a blanket charge for all beverages served in Spanish waters. The point about having already paid 20% VAT when purchasing the cruise is valid, although this seems to be an extra VAT from the Spanish government hence being charged at 10% rather than the Spanish rate of 21%.

[Pooston]

Well I'm happy with their response, and I've never had to pay the tax on any of my previous cruises.

 

I won't let small stuff like this bother me. Just looking forward to my holiday now. :cool:

[bmwman]

Can anyone recently returned on the NCL Spirit Canary Islands & Casablanca Itinerary advice if they were charged the additional 18% Spanish tax on drinks that they had from their UBP Beversge package?

 

These are NCL round trip itineraries from Malaga or Barcelona.

 

 

Thanks

Its 21% and you will not be charged as it leaves EU waters.

[Pooston]

Does anyone actually read previous posts before adding their own post on here? :'):'):')

[bmwman]

We had the UBP it was stated clearly on our Keycards, we were still charged the 10% on every beverage we had in Spanish waters. In our case I think over the whole trip it only came to about $5 each and it just went against the OBC we had, I didn't really think too much about it until I joined this thread.

 

NCL need to address this situation and inform their staff on board, because as far as I was concerned, on our Spirit cruise of Nov/Dec 2017 the 10% was a blanket charge for all beverages served in Spanish waters. The point about having already paid 20% VAT when purchasing the cruise is valid, although this seems to be an extra VAT from the Spanish government hence being charged at 10% rather than the Spanish rate of 21%.

 

Absolute wrong about paying VAT at 20% on the cruise. The point about the 20% in INVALID.

 

The logic is I am afraid not correct at all. There is no such rate as 10% Spanish Tax. The way VAT works is simply not as you suggest. I have no idea what the 10% was but what it can not be is Spanish Tax.

 

When you look at VAT you need to consider if the cruise visits non EU ports. This one did therefore no EU VAT.

 

NCL will be charging and paying VAT on the TOMS scheme (Tour Operators Margin Scheme) and it is not 20%. To suggest otherwise is misinformed

 

This areas of VAT is horrible and frankly so complicated that no wonder Tax Counsel are earning a small fortune on this

[bmwman]

On the Epic?

 

That has changed over the years. The tax is charged on all purchases for the duration of the cruise, and a few years ago it was also charged on drinks consumed with the UBP.

 

However, for the 2016 season that changed and no tax was charged on UBP drinks consumed. That was also the case last year.

 

We just don’t know what the situation will be when the Epic arrives back this year. However, I would say that the experience on cruises such as the current Spirit itineraries have never been a guide as to what happens on the Epic all EU round trip. Therefore, I would say that it is pretty likely you won’t get charged on the drinks you consume. We won’t know until the cruises start though.

 

 

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As always Keith you are 100% right on the money. If you UBP UK no VAT it is that simple.

 

The reason is that it is sold UK VAT paid and no further EU VAT can be charged on that service

[BaWBarmy]

Absolute wrong about paying VAT at 20% on the cruise. The point about the 20% in INVALID.

 

The logic is I am afraid not correct at all. There is no such rate as 10% Spanish Tax. The way VAT works is simply not as you suggest. I have no idea what the 10% was but what it can not be is Spanish Tax.

 

When you look at VAT you need to consider if the cruise visits non EU ports. This one did therefore no EU VAT.

 

NCL will be charging and paying VAT on the TOMS scheme (Tour Operators Margin Scheme) and it is not 20%. To suggest otherwise is misinformed

 

This areas of VAT is horrible and frankly so complicated that no wonder Tax Counsel are earning a small fortune on this

When I purchased my cruise I paid 20% VAT. If you check your receipt you may find that you have also. Whether the point is valid may be up for discussion, whether 20% VAT was paid is not.

 

Spanish VAT is 21%, there is a reduced rate of 10% for passenger transport, hotel and restaurant services, and other goods and services.

 

That would be similar to the UK rate being 20% but there is also a reduced rate for electricity, gas etc. of 5%.

 

I know the cruise left EU waters, I was on it.

 

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[bmwman]

When I purchased my cruise I paid 20% VAT. If you check your receipt you may find that you have also. Whether the point is valid may be up for discussion, whether 20% VAT was paid is not.

 

Spanish VAT is 21%, there is a reduced rate of 10% for passenger transport, hotel and restaurant services, and other goods and services.

 

That would be similar to the UK rate being 20% but there is also a reduced rate for electricity, gas etc. of 5%.

 

I know the cruise left EU waters, I was on it.

 

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Let me explain - You did not pay 20%UK VAT was charged at 20% on the cruise margin. NO holiday from the UK is charged at 20%. Let me refer you to VAT notice 709/5 (2/2016).

 

So the issue is why were you charged 10%. If you had the UBP it is wrong plain and simple. No VAT is levied on UK products sold with VAT charged. This would go against basic VAT law you only pay once as the end user.

 

There are many complications but if you had UBP and were charged further VAT NCL need to explain the basis on which it was charged,

 

Any way I do not wish to come over as rude so sorry for being sharp but VAT is a complicated area.

[bmwman]

Hi I booked cruise via agent cruise 1*8 they have been onto NCL for me and this is the reply

 

Good morning,

 

I am just emailing to confirm that if you are charged any TAX on your drinks whilst on Spanish waters, NCL have informed me that you will be refunded this amount as long as you retain your receipts as proof,

 

If you have any further questions please don’t hesitate to contact me,

 

 

Many thanks,

 

We shall see :o:o

 

This correct but what everyone forgets is that the VAT is complicated by the fact that that there are both EU and Non EU nationals on board. Non EU nationals get their VAT back through Global Blue on board or at the Airport EU we do not.

[BaWBarmy]

Let me explain - You did not pay 20%UK VAT was charged at 20% on the cruise margin. NO holiday from the UK is charged at 20%. Let me refer you to VAT notice 709/5 (2/2016).

 

So the issue is why were you charged 10%. If you had the UBP it is wrong plain and simple. No VAT is levied on UK products sold with VAT charged. This would go against basic VAT law you only pay once as the end user.

 

There are many complications but if you had UBP and were charged further VAT NCL need to explain the basis on which it was charged,

 

Any way I do not wish to come over as rude so sorry for being sharp but VAT is a complicated area.

 

Apology accepted and I also apologise for my tone.

 

If the UBP was a promo rather than a purchase would this affect the situation? I also noticed that the extra was only in Spanish waters, there was no additional charge/tax when in Madeira (Portuguese). Obviously there was no charge in Casablanca.

[hawkeyetlse]

This correct but what everyone forgets is that the VAT is complicated by the fact that that there are both EU and Non EU nationals on board. Non EU nationals get their VAT back through Global Blue on board or at the Airport EU we do not.

This is not relevant for drinks that are consumed on board. You can only have VAT refunded on goods that you take out of the EU.

[bmwman]

This is not relevant for drinks that are consumed on board. You can only have VAT refunded on goods that you take out of the EU.

 

Of course it only refers to goods and has to be over $90 approx dollars

[bmwman]

Apology accepted and I also apologise for my tone.

 

If the UBP was a promo rather than a purchase would this affect the situation? I also noticed that the extra was only in Spanish waters, there was no additional charge/tax when in Madeira (Portuguese). Obviously there was no charge in Casablanca.

 

Thanks

 

Indeed a good question so here is the answer.

 

The promo is effectively built into the price so its not free but part of the sales price. In the alternative the promo is still deemed for VAT purposes to be sold at a value. Of course that value is unknown but could even be £0 but still a value. So should make no difference.

 

I suspect that NCL may have got it wrong as there should not be a charge of VAT on something that you have already paid UK VAT on ie the drinks.

 

Let me give another example - If you buy an all inclusive holiday in Spain you do not pay tax on the drinks again or the food.

 

Why should the Spanish get a sales tax on a service bought in the UK - place of supply rules.

 

There is another possibility in that NCL may have a deal with the UK authorities not to pay UK VAT on the drinks package and therefore allow Spanish to collect. - doubt it

[teamflames]

Thanks

 

 

 

Indeed a good question so here is the answer.

 

 

 

The promo is effectively built into the price so its not free but part of the sales price. In the alternative the promo is still deemed for VAT purposes to be sold at a value. Of course that value is unknown but could even be £0 but still a value. So should make no difference.

 

 

 

I suspect that NCL may have got it wrong as there should not be a charge of VAT on something that you have already paid UK VAT on ie the drinks.

 

 

 

Let me give another example - If you buy an all inclusive holiday in Spain you do not pay tax on the drinks again or the food.

 

 

 

Why should the Spanish get a sales tax on a service bought in the UK - place of supply rules.

 

 

 

There is another possibility in that NCL may have a deal with the UK authorities not to pay UK VAT on the drinks package and therefore allow Spanish to collect. - doubt it

 

 

 

Is the Spanish vat legitimate towards people who bought their cruise with ubp included in the USA or Australia?

 

 

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[lamchops]

I’ve been on the Spirit the past 7 days and have 5 more to go. I have seen the vat signs at the bars even in our 2 Morocco ports of Casablanca and Tangiers.

Restaurant and bar gratuity was posted in Latitudes as 20% but I don’t drink so I don’t know for sure.

[KeithJenner]

I’ve been on the Spirit the past 7 days and have 5 more to go. I have seen the vat signs at the bars even in our 2 Morocco ports of Casablanca and Tangiers.

 

Restaurant and bar gratuity was posted in Latitudes as 20% but I don’t drink so I don’t know for sure.

 

 

Just to clarify.

 

You say there were signs up even in the Moroccan ports, but do you know whether they were actually charging?

 

 

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[Lobbylin]

We were not charged outside Spanish waters, which was from around 9.30pm after leaving Spanish ports etc. And NOT at all in Tangiers or the sea days etc. The only time you know you are paying Spanish tax is when you are given a receipt to sign for each drink, when you are on the beverage package.

[bmwman]

This is not relevant for drinks that are consumed on board. You can only have VAT refunded on goods that you take out of the EU.

 

Sorry but that is incorrect it is done on the ship if over $90 by Global Blue

[bmwman]

Just to clarify.

 

You say there were signs up even in the Moroccan ports, but do you know whether they were actually charging?

 

 

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Keith I think the 20% is Service Charge

[KeithJenner]

Keith I think the 20% is Service Charge

 

 

 

Yes, the 20% will be service charge, but the poster I quoted said that the signs about VAT were up in the Moroccan ports.

 

My guess is that they probably just keep the signs up.

 

 

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[bmwman]

Is the Spanish vat legitimate towards people who bought their cruise with ubp included in the USA or Australia?

 

 

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The VAT that you will pay on SERVICES is quite legitimate as you have purchased you package outside the EU. You have not paid any EU VAT.

 

The UK is VERY different as we are still part of the EU and therefore our prices already include UK VAT and the protocol is that we can not be charged twice.

 

To avoid any confusion if you buy anything on the ship that was not in the original price you paid in the UK you will pay VAT if an European cruise pure and simple.

[bmwman]

Yes, the 20% will be service charge, but the poster I quoted said that the signs about VAT were up in the Moroccan ports.

 

My guess is that they probably just keep the signs up.

 

 

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Agreed but I think the poster may not be accurate - just a thought as Spanish VAT is 21%

 

BTW still no Spirit News do you think they are possibly selling it to another line?

[KeithJenner]

Agreed

 

 

 

BTW still no Spirit News do you think they are possibly selling it to another line?

 

 

 

I have no idea about the Spirit, but I would be surprised if they don’t offer Norway/Iceland/Britain cruises, as my understanding is that they have been selling well. The one we did last year was certainly full, so if something happens to the Spirit then I would expect some other itinerary changes to make up for it.

 

I’m not particularly surprised by the delay. Given the fact that they have a history of having to change the itineraries (our August 2017 one was effectively booked when the revised itineraries were released in August 2016), I’d rather they delayed it and got it right first time.

 

I just wish they would say something. I really want to get next Easter booked, but would like to know how much money we have left over to spend then. We won’t know that until we know what the options and coatings are for the Summer. About another week and I will start looking elsewhere I think.

[bmwman]

I have no idea about the Spirit, but I would be surprised if they don’t offer Norway/Iceland/Britain cruises, as my understanding is that they have been selling well. The one we did last year was certainly full, so if something happens to the Spirit then I would expect some other itinerary changes to make up for it.

 

I’m not particularly surprised by the delay. Given the fact that they have a history of having to change the itineraries (our August 2017 one was effectively booked when the revised itineraries were released in August 2016), I’d rather they delayed it and got it right first time.

 

I just wish they would say something. I really want to get next Easter booked, but would like to know how much money we have left over to spend then. We won’t know that until we know what the options and coatings are for the Summer. About another week and I will start looking elsewhere I think.

 

Thanks for your thoughts but it really is late.

[KeithJenner]

Thanks for your thoughts but it really is late.

 

 

 

It certainly is. Certainly makes you wonder what the problem is.