Rhine water levels 2018 and similar topics

[austinetc]

notamermaid: Excellent education! Thanks. The sea level factor is interesting. I'll share a fun story, though it's well off topic. Many years ago my family sailed their boat up a river in the Chesapeake Bay to a well-known though remote dockside restaurant. Because the boat's draft was greater than normal for the Bay (6 feet), we shouted to the spectators on the dock about the depth. "Sure!" "No problem" "Come on over!". Well, needless to say, we ran aground (soft sand) about 30 feet out. Suddenly the dock emptied itself of those "expert" spectators. To conclude the story, we just left the boat stuck in the sand and took a rowboat into the restaurant (we were hungry). After a great meal of crabs we shimmied the boat out of the sand and departed, never to return. And never to trust spectators again.

[Host Jazzbeau]

The question by austinetc about bedrock reminded me that I had promised myself to post some info about the difference between what the gauge says, the depth of the navigation channel and the actual depth of the river. So, here goes, another "lesson in sailing the Rhine river"

 

notamermaid

 

Thanks for this very informative post! Enjoy your day. I know that while you are enjoying the sunshine you are also praying for rain [to help the river levels] :)

[Bev415]

This is my 1st ever post. I’ve been reading for the last several weeks & have been very apprehensive about upcoming Grand Circle trip from Vienna to Amsterdam on 10/1. We just heard that “at least 1/3 of our trip will be bus/hotel trip with some very long bus trips. I’m very disappointed and can now only hope that the rest of the trip can be salvaged. I will post from our trip

[May B]

This is my 1st ever post. I’ve been reading for the last several weeks & have been very apprehensive about upcoming Grand Circle trip from Vienna to Amsterdam on 10/1. We just heard that “at least 1/3 of our trip will be bus/hotel trip with some very long bus trips. I’m very disappointed and can now only hope that the rest of the trip can be salvaged. I will post from our trip

 

Hi Bev,

 

Welcome to Cruise Critic!

 

How frustrating for you. This entire summer has been loaded with tons of itinerary changes, and the worst have been with bus/hotel trips. Enjoy all the sites/sights.

 

I certainly would love to hear from you while you're on your trip.

[notamermaid]

Hello Bev415,

 

 

That is really disappointing. Sorry to read that you will spend so much time on a coach. I hope you can enjoy the stops and what Grand Circle is able to provide in terms of hotel accommodation. I look forward to reading your posts, especially as we do not hear much about Grand Circle. If you like you could even put your posts into a separate thread which could be helpful for future cruisers of Grand Circle. You just click on the button "start a new thread", give it a title and off you go.

 

 

Have a great trip.

 

 

notamermaid

[notamermaid]

The river levels this morning: Maxau 363cm, Kaub 77cm, Koblenz 73cm. All three are now a little below their lines for the guaranteed navigation channel depth again.

 

 

 

Sorry.

 

 

notamermaid

[azbirdmom]

AztecDuo ~ we're due to leave on Friday....haven't heard anything from Viking yet ..our route is Amsterdam to Basel on the Alruna. We are watching this board for any updates

 

Have you heard anything from Viking yet? And did you decide to cancel? Keep us posted!

 

The river levels this morning: Maxau 363cm, Kaub 77cm, Koblenz 73cm. All three are now a little below their lines for the guaranteed navigation channel depth again.

 

 

 

Sorry.

 

 

notamermaid

 

Wish it was better news but I certainly won't blame the messenger! We leave for Amsterdam on Tuesday and cruise on Friday. Ironically the rain dance I've been doing for the Rhine may have backfired as it's supposed to rain here in Arizona early next week. Hoping that doesn't affect our flights out - it would be ironic if it did given how dry Arizona usually is this time of year.

[SodusCruiser]

Have you heard anything from Viking yet? And did you decide to cancel? Keep us posted!

 

 

 

Wish it was better news but I certainly won't blame the messenger! We leave for Amsterdam on Tuesday and cruise on Friday. Ironically the rain dance I've been doing for the Rhine may have backfired as it's supposed to rain here in Arizona early next week. Hoping that doesn't affect our flights out - it would be ironic if it did given how dry Arizona usually is this time of year.

We did hear from Viking Wednesday with the news of a ship swap, not too surprised, but with the continued drop in levels....we did decide to cancel....honestly I've been so consumed with monitoring all this, that I didn't feel prepared anyway. We look forward to planning another cruise with Viking in the near future, and I'll continue to read about the updates ~ with very best wishes for everyone that decides to carry-on!!

 

Sent from my SM-G950U using Forums mobile app

[azbirdmom]

We did hear from Viking Wednesday with the news of a ship swap, not too surprised, but with the continued drop in levels....we did decide to cancel....honestly I've been so consumed with monitoring all this, that I didn't feel prepared anyway. We look forward to planning another cruise with Viking in the near future, and I'll continue to read about the updates ~ with very best wishes for everyone that decides to carry-on!!

 

Thanks for sharing but sorry you won't get to enjoy the full experience you signed up for. If we had Viking insurance we probably would do the same. And thanks for the best wishes - sounds like we will all need it based on notamermaid's reports.

[Walsen]

I’m sorry to hear that you canceled your trip. We are to leave Basel on the 13 of October hope to have a great trip with or with out a boat

[russandcheryl]

We are departing the tialfi today in Amsterdam... Were originally booked on the alruna, it was a great cruise and we sailed right through. Possibility of a swap in koblenz but that didn't happen. River is low in spots but we had no problem. The staff is amazing and the scenery spectacular .... Wishing everyone happy sailing and more rain

[notamermaid]

We had a bit of rain here yesterday in the Middle Rhine valley, I would say it was just enough to make the plants in flower pots happy. Today the valley is bathed in sunshine again.

 

The river levels: Maxau 346cm, Kaub 65cm, Koblenz 67cm.

 

The current prediction indicates a small rise at Maxau from late Monday onwards.

 

notamermaid

[malcliz]

We are on a 7 day cruise on the Crystal Bach between Mainz to Basel and back to Frankfurt. Please can you tell me whether that stretch of the river has low water levels?

[notamermaid]

Hello malcliz,

 

 

greetings to Kent :)! Whether you are using the generic "you" or asking me directly I am happy to answer of course :). I fear though that I am not able to fully confirm or dispel your concerns (assuming you have them). The stretch of the Rhine that you will be sailing is affected by the low water we currently have but to a lesser extent than the stretch that is causing the great problems. That is the Rhine gorge, in terms of low water from roughly just before Rüdesheim to close to Koblenz. As you turn South at Mainz coming from the Main you will not sail there. Maxau, the gauge I also post, is in the stretch that you will be sailing. On a map that is near Karlsruhe.

 

Now comes the complicated bit: the navigation channel at Maxau is deeper than in the Rhine gorge but it can get low enough to cause problems for ships. As most problems arise in the Rhine gorge that is what we mostly hear about and it has hardly happened so far that a cruiser has reported back saying they could not sail between Rüdesheim and Karlsruhe.

 

The Main is regulated by locks and you should be fine there. From Mainz upstream you sail through the stretch that has no locks but a deepened navigation channel. From Iffezheim onwards to Basel the river is controlled by locks and you will be fine till Basel. Presuming your itinerary runs on schedule and Crystal does not have to decide that they need to stop the cruise in Strasbourg. It has happened with other companies a few times according to past cruisers' reports.

 

To give you an example: the river levels this lunchtime are Maxau 356cm which equals a depth of the navigation channel of 197cm, Kaub 64cm which equals 176cm and Koblenz 59cm which equals 191cm. These are the figures on paper, representative for the gauging stations' individual areas.

 

The river is low upstream from Mainz but it does not look too bad. Currently it does not look as if a river cruise from Mainz/Frankfurt to Basel should have anything more than a slowed down sailing but as I said I cannot say for sure if a large river cruise ship might not be able sail its intended itinerary as we have seen happen in the Rhine gorge.

 

The river levels are still falling but a rise albeit not substantial is forecast to happen from tomorrow onwards. After a sunny Sunday we will see rain and lower temperatures tomorrow.

 

Hope this helps.

 

When is your cruise?

 

notamermaid

[notamermaid]

borders and (boundaries) part 2

 

Quite a few months back I started a series with the intention of giving you some quirky facts and stories that involve, well borders or boundaries. When travelling along the Rhine you cruise through several countries and many of you are much aware of the political and historical facts that surround the river. It occurred to me that the smaller administrative entities are a bit more difficult or complicated to follow. The further you are away geographically the more diffcult I imagine it to be. Alsace with its strong regional identity and being a stand-out area historically in France is easier but what about the Länder in Germany? They are a bit like shires in Britain but politically have more independence, yet do not have the independence as regards some laws like American states. Historically most of them are remnants of sometimes several once independent former kingdoms, dukedoms, etc. but have sometimes been artificially "produced" by rearranging borders during the occupation after WWII. Rhineland-Palatinate is such a case in point. Hesse is to this day more recognizable as a state of former high nobility powers but nevertheless has undergone an administrative transformation.

 

 

Travelling along the Rhine on your ship you straddle the boundaries between the states for quite some kilometres from a bit South of Mannheim to past Rüdesheim around 20 kilometres into the Rhine gorge.

 

 

Mainz, the capital of Rhineland-Palatinate, and Wiesbaden, the capital of Hesse, lie on opposite sides of the Rhine and where occupied by French and American forces, respectively. When the boundary of the Rhine was thus established it let to three suburbs of Mainz being put into the administration of Wiesbaden as they where in the American zone on the other side of the river. The road sign of one reads: Mainz-Kastel Stadtkreis Wiesbaden! Resentments among the people? Strangely no, as the people in Mainz-Kastel according to wikipedia did not really feel as belonging to Mainz before that anyway!

 

 

And as some of you travel from the Rhine to the Main and therefore further into Hesse on some itineraries, here is a short photo gallery of what there is to see in Hesse: https://www.dw.com/en/10-reasons-to-love-hessen/g-18480402

 

 

notamermaid

[Thirsk1]

Riviera cruise nightmare - our first and last river cruise

We commenced a 14 day cruise starting from Cologne and due to finish in Budapest. We were oblivious to the low water problems before we left. It was obvious from day 3 that there were serious river level issues. Perfect Recipe for holiday stress. We received conflicting updates , missed 2 itinerary stops , had the Nuremberg visit seriously shortened and then didn’t cruise any further from day 7 being moored near Straubing. We were taken on some time filling bus trips until finally the axe fell and we were told by the cruise manager that the trip was being curtailed and we would be flown home from Munich. We were duly despatched from the ship at 4 30am We never got to see Vienna or Budapest. This trip should never have been allowed to commence with such uncertainty and by running it and ruining it we won’t get the opportunity again to visit those special cities. This was the most expensive holiday we have ever booked and was a total and absolute calamity. We were the victims of indecision and procrastination for had the trip been cancelled at least we would have had the opportunity to re book .

[G.M.T.]

borders and (boundaries) part 2

 

but what about the Länder in Germany? They are a bit like shires in Britain but politically have more independence, yet do not have the independence as regards some laws like American states.

notamermaid

 

If this is said in the Bavarian Free State, it would be High Treason. :o

 

 

Off with their heads.:halo:

[malcliz]

Thank you notamermaid. Our cruise isn’t for another month on the 4th November so there is time. I think it is the second half of a 14 day cruise so I suppose it will also depend if the ship can get through to Mainz where we board. I enjoy reading your posts!

[notamermaid]

If this is said in the Bavarian Free State, it would be High Treason. :o

 

 

Off with their heads.:halo:

 

Yes, you lot in Bavaria how did you manage not to be thrown out of the rearranging/establishing of the federal state?;) ;)Ha, we took the Palatinate area of you at least. To be honest, I am not sure if the Rheinland people wanted it... all that strange Saumagen food. Perhaps we could tie the Palatinate to Scotland. Then they could exchange recipes for Haggis. Now I am really talking myself into trouble. :halo:

 

In all earnest, how does one explain a "land" to a foreigner? I hope I came close.

 

notamermaid

[G.M.T.]

Federal state or province for Bundesland.

[azbirdmom]

No word from Viking yet so we will be starting to pack the suitcases today for our departure on Tuesday. Someone posted this on a FB group within the hour - not sounding good:

 

"We are passing fromRudeshiem to Koblenz on the Rhine, they told us this morning that our ship, theIdi will be the last to pass. The water under the hull is only 22”."

[notamermaid]

No word from Viking yet so we will be starting to pack the suitcases today for our departure on Tuesday. Someone posted this on a FB group within the hour - not sounding good:

 

"We are passing fromRudeshiem to Koblenz on the Rhine, they told us this morning that our ship, theIdi will be the last to pass. The water under the hull is only 22”."

 

Azbirdmom,

Thank you for posting this. It certainly does not sound good. But I would not give up hope yet. A rise in river levels will happen, we just cannot tell how much yet. For tomorrow and the day after the situation looks indeed bad, by Maxau will rise from Monday night with Kaub and Koblenz to follow Wednesday. If this will get us back to yesterday's levels is not clear yet.

 

I am a little puzzled by the 22" which still is quite a bit, i.e. nearly 56cm. The recommended safety margin is 20 to 40cm. If 22cm were meant then yes, the end of sailing has definitely been reached. But not having been party to the conversation it might have been meant to indicate that they are still fine at 56cm but the levels still in the process of falling, subsequent ships will not have the margin needed. After all, 56cm in one spot does no automatically there is as much in another.

 

Hope all goes well and you can enjoy the trip, however it might turn out.

 

notamermaid

[KathyK13]

Riviera cruise nightmare - our first and last river cruise

We commenced a 14 day cruise starting from Cologne and due to finish in Budapest. We were oblivious to the low water problems before we left. It was obvious from day 3 that there were serious river level issues. Perfect Recipe for holiday stress. We received conflicting updates , missed 2 itinerary stops , had the Nuremberg visit seriously shortened and then didn’t cruise any further from day 7 being moored near Straubing. We were taken on some time filling bus trips until finally the axe fell and we were told by the cruise manager that the trip was being curtailed and we would be flown home from Munich. We were duly despatched from the ship at 4 30am We never got to see Vienna or Budapest. This trip should never have been allowed to commence with such uncertainty and by running it and ruining it we won’t get the opportunity again to visit those special cities. This was the most expensive holiday we have ever booked and was a total and absolute calamity. We were the victims of indecision and procrastination for had the trip been cancelled at least we would have had the opportunity to re book .

 

Sorry to hear that your cruise was such a disappointment. What cruise line were you on?

[Host Jazzbeau]

Sorry to hear that your cruise was such a disappointment. What cruise line were you on?

 

Sounds like it could be Riviera Travel "Cruise the Heart of Europe"

https://www.rivierarivercruises.com/cruise-the-heart-of-europe#

[notamermaid]

Hostjazzbeau, Thank you. I reckon that is the cruise as Riviera Travel UK uses Cologne as a typical starting point for their cruises on the Rhine (and further towards the Danube in this case). Which leads me to my answer to the unhappy cruiser:

 

 

Thirsk1,

 

 

welcome to cruise critic. I am sorry to read about your experience. Also, I am a bit astonished that Riviera is not more open with information. The situation has been going on for a good two months now - on the Danube - and although Riviera is not much of a topic here on cruisecritic yet we have had a disgruntled past passenger voicing his disappointment with the company. I sent him this recommendation in post #29 here: https://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?p=56756617&highlight=ABTA#post56756617 As your name points me to Thirsk in Yorkshire I think this could apply to you as a UK citizen. I hope this helps.

 

 

notamermaid