Rhine water levels 2018 and similar topics

[disnefile]

We are not going to Lucerne. I am going to Bruge before the cruise. Holland does not do Christmas like Europe. They are agnostic. Christmas markets is the cruise name so yes that is why we booked it. 

[pully8]

3 hours ago, hbr777 said:

I agree that this is a total mess as an alternative itinerary. Who the heck wants to go to Kinderdijk? Leaving out Heidelberg and Cologne is like leaving out the heart of the entire cruise.

 

That being said, if this is my itinerary which I suspect it will be (AMA, Basel to Amsterdam leaving 12/3), I'm skipping Kinderdijk and maybe some other stops. I hope AMA knows what a stupid itinerary this is for a Christmas market cruise/bus tour of the center of the low countries.

That will be a very long day, Antwerp to Strasberg, albeit Luxembourg is a nice place to visit. Kinderdijk  we have seen on other cruises in spring/autumn, never mid winter.

Given the potential weather an indoor place like a museum or art gallery might be better??  

Another issue with long bus rides in mid winter will be the short days, much may be in the dark? 

 

[sharkster77]

Here in New England, we are having the wettest fall in recorded history.  If we could send Europe some rain, we would!!!!!

[pully8]

1 hour ago, notamermaid said:

Lunch on the excursion boat. That is a nice idea to bridge that gap of river and time. I doubt it will be sumptuous, probably more typical German fare. Enjoyable nevertheless with all the castles adorning the landscape outside your window.

 

Have a great day and a smooth swap.

 

notamermaid

 

On the ship swap days are people carrying their hand luggage and valuables with them?

Are the excursion ships heated? How long are the trips? Its an opportunity to sail the river and see the castles, as long as its not foggy. 

[odie714]

Hello,

 

We are sailing with Scenic on 12/3 Amsterdam to Basel.  No information from Scenic with regards to low water levels on the Rhine and if the itinerary will change.  Communications from Scenic have been poor at best.

 

Has anyone else cruised with Scenic? There has been conflicting information from them with regards to the dress code for dinner.  We were told back in May from a Scenic representative that the welcome and farewell dinner are "fancier" but not formal.  No jacket or tie required for men.  Now, I've just received my e-documents and the dress code is much different.  Jacket and tie and more formal for women for welcome and farewell dinners and dressed casual for other nights.

 

With all the weight restrictions for the airlines and Scenic, we are trying to pack in a medium sized suitcase.  Not much room for extra dinner clothing.

 

Any information would be appreciated from previous Scenic cruisers. We've only cruised Uniworld for the Christmas Markets and most days we went directly to dinner after returning to the ship.

 

Thanks in advance.

 

Deb H

[hbr777]

2 hours ago, skybluewaters said:

 

I'm not certain which itinerary you are talking about, but if it is the same as Hoyas96's itinerary mentioned at the bottom of post #1592 above, from Amsterdam to Basel aboard the AmaKristina, you shouldn't be so discouraged.  Antwerp is an excellent city to visit, and it also is within ~ 1 hour 15 minutes of Bruges by bus, which would be a highlight of most cruises.  Also, Rotterdam is surprisingly interesting and definitely worth visiting.  Plus, Strasbourg is outstanding.  True, you will miss Heidelberg, which is a loss, but not going to Cologne is not that big of a deal in my opinion (other that the cathedral).  You also are going to really enjoy Lucerne, so looking at the big picture, you have reason to have a positive attitude.  The biggest issue will be the 5 hour bus ride from Antwerp to Strasbourg, and the loss of the christmas markets....but then again, I just don't get why the markets are such a big deal (but that's another topic altogether). 

So smile and look forward to a wonderful cruise!

I have to disagree with this. This is a Christmas market cruise. On the Rhine. With the focus on Germany, for the markets. We will miss Heidelberg, Rudesheim, Cologne, cruising on the scenic part of the Rhine, AND most of Amsterdam. Instead we gain Benelux which is snooze fest for the Christmas season, and terrible, long bus ride with a stop in Luxembourg City (whoopie). I will have a great time because I am on vacation, but this itinerary is poor one for original intention.

[sjde]

Well said   sky blue waters. Many Christmas markets sell just about the same items , so seeing 3 maybe rather than 6 isn’t a big loss in my opinion. These Christmas Markets cruises start around Thanksgiving and if you are on one of the early ones you do miss some anyway as there are some that don't open until  Dec 1.

[peregrino]

3 hours ago, disnefile said:

Holland does not do Christmas like Europe. They are agnostic.

 

Disnefile, I actually agree with you.  Having spent 3 years in Holland for work, they do not do Christmas like the Germans.  My experience was that their towns are rather bleak during winter - mostly dark, no leaves on trees, and not so many people outside.

 

My Dutch colleagues drove to Germany for the winter cheer in their Christmas markets.  Even the Dutch, with all their natural "ethnocentric biases" thought the Germans did Christmas cheer better!  😉

 

We have turned into an acquisitive society in the Western world, and tend to think we have to buy things all the time.  Most likely, one Christmas market would be largely similar to another, just as one "farmers market" in Australia is largely similar to another.  Myself and better half are fully expecting this.

 

The thing about the Christmas markets is that the German people have made bright and cheerful places for people to congregate in the dark and cold time of the year.  Good on them!  Equally, these markets make a bright and cheerful centre-point for tourist sightseeing in winter.  Even if one only buys a gluwine and bratwurst  

 

If one is sightseeing Holland and Belgium, then the other seasons would be better.

[AUFan83]

5 hours ago, Jimmy_Buffett said:

 

Hi there,

We are on the Viking Tialfi,doing a ship swap tomorrow..

Here is the itinerary, looks like Viking is doing a great job of dealing with Global warming.

 

Thank you so much for this information! We, along with 3 relatives and their spouses, will be sailing this itinerary December 8th. I have been watching/reading this thread for quite a while and waiting to see what happens along with everyone else. It does seem that Viking is trying to keep as close to the original cruise as possible.

[pvalent58]

3 hours ago, odie714 said:

Hello,

 

We are sailing with Scenic on 12/3 Amsterdam to Basel.  No information from Scenic with regards to low water levels on the Rhine and if the itinerary will change.  Communications from Scenic have been poor at best.

 

Has anyone else cruised with Scenic? There has been conflicting information from them with regards to the dress code for dinner.  We were told back in May from a Scenic representative that the welcome and farewell dinner are "fancier" but not formal.  No jacket or tie required for men.  Now, I've just received my e-documents and the dress code is much different.  Jacket and tie and more formal for women for welcome and farewell dinners and dressed casual for other nights.

 

With all the weight restrictions for the airlines and Scenic, we are trying to pack in a medium sized suitcase.  Not much room for extra dinner clothing.

 

Any information would be appreciated from previous Scenic cruisers. We've only cruised Uniworld for the Christmas Markets and most days we went directly to dinner after returning to the ship.

 

Thanks in advance.

 

Deb H

Deb, we’re on scenic opal 12/5, I suspect the same cruise.  The only communication I’ve received from Scenic has been this.  

 

 

“Thank you for making Scenic part of your upcoming travel plans.

Currently in Central Europe, the Rhine and Danube rivers have experienced localised instances of low water levels. Low water can give rise to navigational restrictions, which may force us to make adjustments to your itinerary at short notice.

As these restrictions occur, we respond to each event based on the situation at hand, always remaining focused on delivering your itinerary.

If we are required to make any adjustments we will communicate this to our guests as specific detailed information becomes available, both prior to, and during the cruise.

We look forward to welcoming guests to Europe.

Kind regards

Scenic Europe Operations Team”

 

As far as dress is concerned, I’m not bringing a jacket or tie and my impression is that the Aussies like to keep it casual.   

 

This Scenic Facebook group is informative.  You might consider joining. 

 

https://www.*****/246898725642004/

 

regards, 

Pete

[Mark_T]

7 hours ago, pully8 said:

On the ship swap days are people carrying their hand luggage and valuables with them?

Are the excursion ships heated? How long are the trips? Its an opportunity to sail the river and see the castles, as long as its not foggy. 

Yes the ships are heated, they typically have two fully enclosed, heated, decks with large windows to aid viewing. They also have outside viewing areas if you don’t mind the weather.

 

There is usually a ‘bar’ area serving coffee, beer etc.

 

Our trip on one lasted around 2 hours or so and with APT we had exclusive use of the ship, some other lines appear to have just bought tickets on scheduled cruises so there were other groups onboard at the same time.

 

Regarding ‘ship swaps’ I can only say that my Understanding is that much like when you fly, your large suitcases are taken care of for you and you take care of your ‘carry-on’ bags. The coaches are considered a safe place to leave bags if you have tours en route so you don’t have to drag your carry-on bags with you when you leave the coach.

[notamermaid]

2 hours ago, Mark_T said:

Yes the ships are heated, they typically have two fully enclosed, heated, decks with large windows to aid viewing. They also have outside viewing areas if you don’t mind the weather.

 

There is usually a ‘bar’ area serving coffee, beer etc.

 

Our trip on one lasted around 2 hours or so and with APT we had exclusive use of the ship, some other lines appear to have just bought tickets on scheduled cruises so there were other groups onboard at the same time.

 

Regarding ‘ship swaps’ I can only say that my Understanding is that much like when you fly, your large suitcases are taken care of for you and you take care of your ‘carry-on’ bags. The coaches are considered a safe place to leave bags if you have tours en route so you don’t have to drag your carry-on bags with you when you leave the coach.

 

pully8, Mark_T has given you a great detailed answer. I will just add to his comments that he was on a boat by Loreley-Linie. This is the company's page on chartering their ships: http://www.loreley-linie.de/events_e.html

 

The larger excursion boats are well-suited for travelling for a few hours with. Think of them as floating restaurants (not luxurious, though). Perfectly comfortable. By large I mean seating 200+ people. On such a boat you can do an hour round trip, offered sometimes also offered during Advent, or some trips going upstream can last up to six hours, really depending on how far you want to go.

 

The biggest company with the largest fleet is KD: https://www.k-d.com/fileadmin/kataloge/KD_Winter_engl_2018.pdf

 

notamermaid

 

[notamermaid]

23 hours ago, Sarakmom said:

I’m on Grand Circle’s Melody (B to A) and we just had a deviation briefing - still subject to change but here’s what it looks like for us at the moment - we are very pleased with how they are making the best of a difficult situation 

Sarakmom,

 

I hope you are having a great time. I am coming back to your itinerary posting as the details at the end are very informative. It is the first time that I have heard it confirmed here that Strasbourg to Koblenz is not passable. I think that might be a bit too general speaking as in Strasbourg you are still in the lock-controlled part, but they will obviously be right in the end about what they can do as regards sensible cruising with docking stops between Iffezheim and Koblenz. The navigation channel is indeed much reduced. Better be safe than sorry.

 

Also interesting is that they are also affected the problematic docking in Cologne. I can well understand them taking out Baden-Baden. Pity, but it is nice that they are honest about the financial aspect of it. Bonn is actually a nice idea. The Christmas market is good and the town has a lovely old church (Münster) right in town. Some good shops, too. I like the department store Kaufhof Galeria. The University gardens are nice for a stroll.

 

Remagen is not a bad place to stop at either. It is a small town so only has a Christmas market on 8/9 December. There are a few sights, among them the towers of Remagen bridge, which are a bit out of town. The museum is closed in winter, but can be opened on request: http://www.bruecke-remagen.de/index_en.htm You can look at the sights here: https://www.remagen.de/Tourismus-_-Veranstaltungen/?&d=1

 

Again, I find they have got a very good plan around those problems. Enjoy.

 

notamermaid

 

[pully8]

Thank you so much for the details about the ship swap and day river excursions.

With the train transfer to Budapest would imagine hand luggage would be with you on board, not sure about the space available on board? We try to minimise our luggage especially if packing and unpacking but some things are essential. 

 

Agree with the thoughts expressed regarding the perceived Netherlands Christmas experience versus the German/Austria one that people think they will experience with a Christmas market cruise.

We have done a few cruises and travelled around the Netherlands and Belgium in spring and autumn which we enjoyed, but mid winter to the exclusion of scenic areas along the Rhine/main/Danube?

We have spent time in Maastricht and enjoyed the vibrant university town but that's not on the modified route mentioned so far.  

I suppose if weather is too grim outside people can hibernate in the comfort of the ship and make the best of it, albeit once the land transfers are sorted.

[G.M.T.]

8 hours ago, sjde said:

Well said   sky blue waters. Many Christmas markets sell just about the same items , so seeing 3 maybe rather than 6 isn’t a big loss in my opinion. These Christmas Markets cruises start around Thanksgiving and if you are on one of the early ones you do miss some anyway as there are some that don't open until  Dec 1.

Christmas Markets are cultural and traditional part of the German speaking world.

 

You missed the whole point for the Christmas Markets, a place where you can meet family, firends and even strangers, sharing warmth and affection during the depths of winter. It makes a great start to the run up to Christmas.

 

The Christmas Markets do not open around Thanksgiving, but around the First of Advent.

 

Time to embrace a glühwein.

[peasmith]

AUFan83 - thanks for the info.  So far have you been able to stick to all the places of visit which were on the itinerary?  We are joining the Viking Mani on the 14th December and worried that we will not be visiting some of the places although we have done the itinerary before for Xmas a couple of years ago but the Xmas markets were all closing down then - hope your day goes as planned

[notamermaid]

AmaWaterways. I had a good think about them even before I had breakfast. Yep, it is getting that bad. What I just cannot figure out is why they are not able to follow the path of the APT-used AmaVenita. Are the ten centimetres lost between Koblenz and Cologne crucial? We have learnt from the Grand Circle itinerary that docking in Cologne is tricky. Still, Viking manages to operate out of the harbour at Niehl. These are all small variables that will have any river cruise company pulling their hair out in despair. Has AmaWaterways exhausted all avenues? I just cannot grasp why they need to go on motorcoach via Luxembourg. It is the fast motorway route, but a Christmas market cruise on the Rhine that stops at no German Christmas market and does not even enter Germany? Sailing on the German Rhine does not even happen let alone seeing a town or market! Let us have another look at google maps: current traffic situation says that - with a stop in Luxembourg - pure driving time is 5 hours in a car. Along the motorway there are more than ten places with roadworks. What fun! (sarcasm) To be honest, on that route, I would leave Antwerp early, give passengers a packed lunch British style and drop them off at Metz. I prefer Metz to Luxembourg. On the way you need a toilet stop by law, but that can be arranged. I would give passengers three hours in Metz so they can see the Christmas lights come on and then have a quick run to Strasbourg along the motorway. That is then only a good two hours (presuming the roadworks do not hold you up). Just in case anyone has forgotten, the ships at Strasbourg do not dock in the town centre, but in the harbour out of town or in Kehl, Germany.

 

It sounds as if sailing out of the locks past Strasbourg is out of the question to go downstream towards Mannheim and Cologne is a problem, so how to get round it with a 135m ship? I cannot factor in any variables that I do not know about of course, but let us just assume for a moment we could ignore that, then I would do this: sail to Xanten, yes, they have a Christmas market on, offer to stay or take a coach to Cologne Christmas market, sail to Duisburg to where the excursion passengers return. Next day, drive to Koblenz along the motorway, have a quick glühwein at the stall there (just one, you will be on a coach again) and soak in the atmosphere for 20 minutes (granted, that is difficult) and then take the slow route via the castles to hit the motorway again at Bingen with a hopefully straight run to Strasbourg. Yes, that is hard, also takes over five hours in a coach, but you see at least two German Christmas markets, perhaps with a third one briefly. I would skip Rüdesheim, but that is my personal preference. It is also easier to leave out as it is on the wrong side of the Rhine for the itinerary I compiled (road logistics, no bridge).

 

In an ideal world this could work. No idea if Xanten is equipped for this, Duisburg might have a Viking ship occupying the space, river indeed too low at Xanten is a possibility, etc.

 

Oh I just have to get to my next shift at work (tourism, no river cruise ship stuff, though) soon, I can tell my mind is getting too occupied with this stuff here. Still, it is fun. Just wish I could be more optimistic for next week for you. Not looking too promising right now. More in my next post.

 

notamermaid

 

[notamermaid]

42 minutes ago, G.M.T. said:

Christmas Markets are cultural and traditional part of the German speaking world.

 

You missed the whole point for the Christmas Markets, a place where you can meet family, firends and even strangers, sharing warmth and affection during the depths of winter. It makes a great start to the run up to Christmas.

 

The Christmas Markets do not open around Thanksgiving, but around the First of Advent.

 

Time to embrace a glühwein.

My sentiments as well. For me it is also the cosyness among the wooden huts. Lights are important, too. The convivial atmosphere and the lights that light up our dark world, when you are in the right mood, warm the cockles of your heart.

 

The glühwein helps, of course.

 

notamermaid

 

 

[pully8]

Excellent post notamermaid.

Makes a huge difference getting info from a well informed local.

Agree about rethinking the long bus rides on the motorways, especially in mid winter with limited daylight and potential traffic or bad weather.

We sometimes look at the cruise excursions offered here in Australia and think some are too ambitious for the distance or timeframes. however some visitors may sign up and be totally unaware of the experience ahead.

We have seen it on river cruises too over the years, people trying to do too much every day and being totally exhausted at dinner, but each to their own.

Where possible we like to take opportunities that will allow us to go at our own pace, rather than rushing or herded. 

Thanks again. 

[G.M.T.]

21 minutes ago, peasmith said:

AUFan83 - thanks for the info.  So far have you been able to stick to all the places of visit which were on the itinerary?  We are joining the Viking Mani on the 14th December and worried that we will not be visiting some of the places although we have done the itinerary before for Xmas a couple of years ago but the Xmas markets were all closing down then - hope your day goes as planned

Peasmith, you probably know that down the road from is the biggest Christmas Market outsideof mainland Europe in Birmingham. I was there some years ago, really enjoyed the atmosphere, truely authentic as there were many German stall holders  from Frankfurt (twinned with Birminham).

 

https://www.thebfcm.co.uk/

[peasmith]

Thank you G.M.T. - we did consider a trip there a couple of years but decided to do another Viking trip.  I think travelling to Germany for us is easier than getting to Birmingham and I like to get out of this country! lol! May be one year when we have stopped travelling abroad we will make a visit. 

 

 

[katz]

In Oberwesel today, overlooking the Rhine.  We are here for two nights before flying to Zurich for the pre-cruise.  We have seen three barges and one day boat go by.  River close to Rudeshiem looks sad and sandy.   Weather is damp and cloudy, no rain.  

[notamermaid]

5 minutes ago, katz said:

In Oberwesel today, overlooking the Rhine.  We are here for two nights before flying to Zurich for the pre-cruise.  We have seen three barges and one day boat go by.  River close to Rudeshiem looks sad and sandy.   Weather is damp and cloudy, no rain.  

Hello katz,

 

so you are not on a ship? Remind me please, are you doing a land trip?

 

Oberwesel is nice with its town wall still standing to a great part. Enjoy.

 

notamermaid

 

P.S.: it has got a webcam overlooking the river: https://www.oberwesel.de/startseite/

Edited November 27, 2018 by notamermaid
added website

[AUFan83]

1 hour ago, peasmith said:

AUFan83 - thanks for the info.  So far have you been able to stick to all the places of visit which were on the itinerary?  We are joining the Viking Mani on the 14th December and worried that we will not be visiting some of the places although we have done the itinerary before for Xmas a couple of years ago but the Xmas markets were all closing down then - hope your day goes as planned

 

Peasmith, this was posted by JimmyBuffet who is onboard right now-we don’t leave until Dec 8. So I don’t know yet about sticking to the itinerary but it sounds like they have so far-from what I have read from others, the next day is still the bus trip to Heidelberg. Here’s to a great trip for both of us!

[peasmith]

Yes let's hope so AUFan83 - we have the Silver Spirits Drinks Package so who cares what the week may bring!

 

We have done many with Viking at this time of year (November/December including Christmas) and have never had any problem over the past few years with water levels but was bound to happen sooner or later and will put it all down to a new experience! 

 

With a cruise you expect to unpack just the once and not twice during the holiday - when we dock in Basel we will be returning to Heathrow for a couple of nights then joining the Viking Sky on the 23rd December (without returning home in between) so I think it may mean a trip to the launderette on the Sky for a washing and ironing session! 

 

I rang Viking yesterday and they said that a ship swap is likely but so far we are still booked on the Mani but as far as I can see the Mani hasn't moved far since the 9th November!  The lady I spoke to said that they had an update on the situation yesterday morning and that snowfall and rainfall were likely - I think the snowfall is nearer Vienna than Germany at the moment though as I can't find any mention of snowfall for the places we are visiting.