Project Runway?

[awrightsd]

I also thought Uli's dress was going to win. They did give her good feedback regarding the dress. I do understand why Jeffrey's dress won and I do like it. I am also glad the Vincent is gone...dress was terrible.

 

The previews for next week's show look good! I think Laura may be the next one out.

 

Interesting comment about Kayne's gown/skater's costume outfits. I agree with the fact that he could do both very successfully.

 

Amy in San Diego

[Happy ks]

Visiting the Project Runway site is interesting. Go there and read Tims blog about the episode, it does give you a different perspective.

 

I have to agree about Jeffreys dress being a "what was she thinking" type of dress for the red carpet. But, fashion shows are quite a different story.

[lssg]

here is my two cents about last night's show...I read up alittle on line about couture fashion and basicly the garment is mady virtually by hand to custom fit the wearer...hard to do when you have two different models....that being said...Uli did a great job...I'd wear her dress....Micheal's dress wasn't good but he did virtually do alot of it by hand...impressed by that fact...Laura dress was just plain...not high fashion...kayne's dress I loved....but that's my opinion....jeffrey, well it just made me think that a person from scotland would wear it with all that plaid....maybe in a different fabric....I don't know maybe....I can't wait for next week...poor laura...swollen feet....tired....pregnant....hope she hangs in there...I do like her style

[Lois R]

Hi Jane,:) first I have a question about "couture"....is it what

they stated? Totally hand made? Does the

fabric and pattern have anything to do with it being "couture"?

 

Now, someone said Jeffrey could just "go for it" because

he had immumity from this challenge. Well maybe so,

but the minute I saw him pick the plaid:eek:....well,

I didn't like it..but I am just one little peon....and I know

Jeffrey would tell me to stick it where the sun don't shine:rolleyes:.

 

As for the others....I LOVED Uli's dress too.

 

And Vincent was weird (to me).

 

I still love Michael and hope he wins.

[Happy ks]

Lois, I looked it up for you (as I am as experienced as you :) ). I do remember the definition is "high sewing" translated to the very best workmanship and design in womens fashions. I actually learned it from a game show a while back :rolleyes: .

 

Here is wikipedia definition, you can also Google and get a lot of info. It is interesting to see, but other than celebrities and very wealthy women, you really don't see much of it at all. The pieces are all one of a kind, made for a particular client.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haute_couture

 

How fun would it be, to have your own designer! Of course, then we would own a large yacht and never set foot on a cruise ship :D

[ridge4]

Opinion from the great unwashed, who obviously doesn't "get" high fashion:

• Uli - beautiful, just beautiful. Glad to see something other than the prints, even though she has a great eye for them. I am troubled, though, about the "all the same" vibe I am getting. The braids, roping, and essentially same bodice are getting old.
  
• Vincent - Ick. Every once in a while I actually had some admiration for the simplicity of his designs. However, he does not execute well, and this one did look like a child dressed her Barbie backward. Good choice for the auf.
  
• Kayne - Yep, I get it, Kayne's taste is questionable, but not this week. I completely disagree with the scolding he received from the judges. That gown was gorgeous. If I had the body for it, I'd love to have it. Kayne understands how to flatter the female form better than anyone there.
  
• Laura - I do like Laura's classic taste, but this dress made me think of Cruella DeVille. Not a good week for her. I'm glad she survived. I completely agree with another poster that this dress did not translate well on a black woman with short hair.
  
• Michael - one of my favorite designers on the show, but this was definitely an off week for him. I was amazed at how much better it looked after the judges had him tone down the Mickey ears. I'm glad he survived, maybe on the strength of his past work.
  
• Jeffery - completely hideous, a total stinking mess. Maybe I can apply for the show next year...I can have the cat throw up on my grandmother's tablecloth, bunch it up, throw in the general direction of a model, and win! Maybe it's just that a tv show needs drama and ratings. Unlike the judges, I can't equate "innovative" and "fashion-forward" with something so atrociously ugly.

I think I prefer to stay "uneducated" in fashion. ;)

 

Cindi

[Jane110]

Hi Jane,:) first I have a question about "couture"....is it what

they stated? Totally hand made? Does the

fabric and pattern have anything to do with it being "couture"?

 

Now, someone said Jeffrey could just "go for it" because

he had immumity from this challenge. Well maybe so,

but the minute I saw him pick the plaid:eek:....well,

I didn't like it..but I am just one little peon....and I know

Jeffrey would tell me to stick it where the sun don't shine:rolleyes:.

 

As for the others....I LOVED Uli's dress too.

 

And Vincent was weird (to me).

 

I still love Michael and hope he wins.

 

Lois,

 

Happy K's link really said it well so I won't go into technical explaination.

 

Worth is considered the first couture designer and even back then, couture designers had to really make their money by licensing their name and creating perfumes. Je Revien perfume is by Worth, I believe.

 

YSL (Yves St. Laurent) is considered the biggest modern couture designer.

 

A friend of mine considers himself a couture designer, although the french wouldn't because he's not "licensed" by the french council. But he makes everything by hand, including his fabrics and has created some sewing techniques. He teaches couture sewing at FIT (Fash. Inst. Technology, which is the #1 school, Parsons is #2).

He said I could borrow anything from him for a special event and I have a black tie event in a couple of months, so I'll be showing up in a one-of-a kind dress that retails for over $6000. ! Lucky me!

[curlyd]

I too like Uli's dress but it seems like all of her dresses have twisted or braided straps. I would like to see something else in the bodice and shoulder area in one of her creations.

[Curt Jerome Wild]

Really quickly...

Thought you all might be interested in this "Where are they now?" link:

http://people.aol.com/people/gallery/0,26335,1210099,00.html

CJW

[Jane110]

Really quickly...

Thought you all might be interested in this "Where are they now?" link:

http://people.aol.com/people/gallery/0,26335,1210099,00.html

CJW

 

Fun, thanks Curt.

 

BTW, did you see my other message w/ my email address for you?

[Curt Jerome Wild]

Fun, thanks Curt. BTW, did you see my other message w/ my email address for you?

Nope sorry, it's Toronto International Film Festival now, and even though I'm not there, I'm on 10 million conference calls because of it...

I'm trying to check the boards in between phone calls.:(

In the meantime, check the "friends" thread on the "other" section.

Now back to Project Runway...

CJW

[Lois R]

Hi Kathy, thanks for the link....never too old to

learn, that is for sure:)

[surfklutz]

I consistently love Uli's style- I thin she will be a finalist.

 

I hope now that that Vincent is gone, he can take care of that bothersome constipation he seemed to be plaqued with during the entire season. I can not think of another explanation for those faces.

 

Laura drives me nuts - she really thinks she is something great. What was that bare midriff thing going on in Paris. Yeah - we get it - you're pregnant Laura.

 

I think Kaynes was by far the best dress - and completely disagree with the judges. They claimed there was too much going on - but isn't that what "coutour" generally is? I thought it flowed beautifully - the back was stunning, and the bodice certainly supported the flowing lines. He was robbed.

 

I also disagree with most about Heidi - she is a class act. I think she is as cute as a button and is very respectful to the contestants. She is reading a script - acting a part - but I think in the end she comes through with class.

[wrp96]

Laura drives me nuts - she really thinks she is something great. What was that bare midriff thing going on in Paris. Yeah - we get it - you're pregnant Laura.

 

I think the reason for the bare midriff thing is that when she was packing to leave for Project Runway she didn't know she was pregnant. All her nice tailored clothing that she brought with her no longer fits around her middle section.

[BlueHerons]

Opinion from the great unwashed, who obviously doesn't "get" high fashion:

• Jeffery - completely hideous, a total stinking mess. Maybe I can apply for the show next year...I can have the cat throw up on my grandmother's tablecloth, bunch it up, throw in the general direction of a model, and win! Maybe it's just that a tv show needs drama and ratings. Unlike the judges, I can't equate "innovative" and "fashion-forward" with something so atrociously ugly.

I think I prefer to stay "uneducated" in fashion. ;)

 

Cindi

 

I'm just clotheslined by your vicious attack.

[lhall85917]

Really quickly...

Thought you all might be interested in this "Where are they now?" link:

http://people.aol.com/people/gallery/0,26335,1210099,00.html

CJW

 

Thanks for the link - love Austin Scarlett!! I'd seen some of his wedding gowns and liked most of them! It's also great to hear about the others. :D

[Jane110]

Opinion from the great unwashed, who obviously doesn't "get" high fashion:

 

I think I prefer to stay "uneducated" in fashion. ;)

 

Cindi

 

Yes, that comes though loud and clear. ;)

[ridge4]

Hmmm..it appears somes posts are being removed. That is unfortunate, a well composed and thought provoking post by Jane is now missing. Perhaps she chose to edit it instead, I'm not sure. My reply will be referencing comments removed, sorry for the confusion.

 

Jane;

 

You have some valid points. Upon review, my comments do convey a closed mind.

 

Your restaurant analogy was very good, and stirred a memory of one of my first cruises. Among our tablemates was a lovely couple, who apparently had a very narrow taste in food. While my husband and I were delighted at the opportunity to try a variety of new dishes, it quickly became apparent that this couple ate only "steak and potatoes" type of fare. As the week wore on, I even found myself able to predict exactly what they would order at each meal (as did the waiters). I recall wondering why anyone would not avail themselves of the chance to expand their horizons. It is one of the many reasons I love cruising. While the food is far from gourmet, I don't understand trying to recreate a meal from the local Golden Corral.

 

With regard to the experts, I learned over the years to never just accept their advice at face value (in general, not just the fashion industry). I feel it is always wise to question them, at least until I gain a modicum of respect for their abilities. From your comments, these individuals have gained that respect within the fashion industry. Gaining the respect of the average television viewer is another task entirely. Unfortunately, several of them appear to often contradict themselves. The fact that the show allows the producers a say in the results also muddies the waters somewhat. I hope the judges opinions truly are their opinions, and not those of the money behind the show. Perhaps gaining the confidence of the average viewer is not part of the point at all. My respect for Tim is growing, as his opinions seem consistent, even when I disagree.

 

Admittedly, the entire concept of haute couture is a tough one for me. I do understand that this is an entirely different area than, for example, ready-to-wear. I can certainly appreciate custom fitting and detailed handiwork. However, fashion is a business, and like any other, needs to be profitable. It is my understanding that many haute couture creations are never sold, or sold at low profit. Is this incorrect? If the idea is to display the skill set of the designer or house, and indirectly boost the sales of a ready-to-wear line, that is understandable. The fact that it is stressed to be a very, very different area does not seem in line with one skill set benefitting the other. It does appear that it is more important that the garment be "out-there" and generally too extreme for the masses. The scorn that Kayne's gown received seems to underscore this theory.

 

Thanks for your thought provoking post!!

 

Cindi

[Jane110]

Hmmm..it appears somes posts are being removed. That is unfortunate, a well composed and thought provoking post by Jane is now missing. Perhaps she chose to edit it instead, I'm not sure. My reply will be referencing comments removed, sorry for the confusion.

 

Nope, wasn't I that removed it.

 

 

Jane;

 

You have some valid points. Upon review, my comments do convey a closed mind.

 

Your restaurant analogy was very good, and stirred a memory of one of my first cruises. Among our tablemates was a lovely couple, who apparently had a very narrow taste in food. While my husband and I were delighted at the opportunity to try a variety of new dishes, it quickly became apparent that this couple ate only "steak and potatoes" type of fare. As the week wore on, I even found myself able to predict exactly what they would order at each meal (as did the waiters). I recall wondering why anyone would not avail themselves of the chance to expand their horizons. It is one of the many reasons I love cruising. While the food is far from gourmet, I don't understand trying to recreate a meal from the local Golden Corral.

 

Thanks, I appreciate your response and I'm really glad that my cruiseship dinner analogy helped create a reference that made my POV understandable.

 

With regard to the experts, I learned over the years to never just accept their advice at face value (in general, not just the fashion industry). I feel it is always wise to question them, at least until I gain a modicum of respect for their abilities. From your comments, these individuals have gained that respect within the fashion industry. Gaining the respect of the average television viewer is another task entirely. Unfortunately, several of them appear to often contradict themselves. The fact that the show allows the producers a say in the results also muddies the waters somewhat. I hope the judges opinions truly are their opinions, and not those of the money behind the show. Perhaps gaining the confidence of the average viewer is not part of the point at all. My respect for Tim is growing, as his opinions seem consistent, even when I disagree.

 

I'm not privy to how Project Runway works in the back offices. Curt here is our forum expert in that regard. However, it's my belief that while some of the designers who did not lose or win might be asked to stay because of the "good television" they create, I really don't think that fashion icons like Michael Kors, Richard Tyler, Nina Garcia, etc would sell themselves out to such an extent that a person who came up with a horrible losing creation could be named the winner. High fashion is not for everyone just like gourmet food isn't either.

 

Admittedly, the entire concept of haute couture is a tough one for me. I do understand that this is an entirely different area than, for example, ready-to-wear. I can certainly appreciate custom fitting and detailed handiwork.

 

Yes, but it's a whole lot more than that. You can probably go to a local seamstress/tailor that does alot of handwork and have a lovely outfit made for not too much money. My Mother has some custom silk pieces made by a wonderful seamstress in Florida. They're gorgeous, but certainly not haute couture. Haute couture is the trend seeting styles that everyone else takes their cue from in terms of trendsetting color, silhouette and detail.

 

However, fashion is a business, and like any other, needs to be profitable. It is my understanding that many haute couture creations are never sold, or sold at low profit. Is this incorrect? If the idea is to display the skill set of the designer or house, and indirectly boost the sales of a ready-to-wear line, that is understandable.

 

That's always been the case. Coco Chanel made more from the sales of her perfume than from her dresses, though she did sell thousands of dresses. Same with Yves St. Laurent, Worth, Balenciaga, Pierre Cardin, Givenchy, etc.

 

But when you consider that 25% of Neiman Marcus' clients *each* spend over one million dollars in their store, there IS a market for clothing that sells for many thousands of dollars per outfit. I'm currently working on getting a new client who's clothing will retail for anywhere from about $6000. - $15,000 per outfit. However, most of her sales will come from her handmade scarves and blouses which retail between $400 - $600. each. Down the road I hope to get her into home fabrics because she's a graphic artist and that could make her really famous.

 

The fact that it is stressed to be a very, very different area does not seem in line with one skill set benefitting the other. It does appear that it is more important that the garment be "out-there" and generally too extreme for the masses. The scorn that Kayne's gown received seems to underscore this theory.

 

I don't understand that first sentence. However, the scorn of Kayne's gown was that he can't cross the line from pageant dress to haute couture and a pageant dress is much more for the masses taste than couture is. Who's the pageant audience? Mass America and they sure don't want to look at couture! The won't "get it". They want to look at what they wish they could buy if they had the money and/or the figure so they can live in a fairy tale. That's the impetus behind prom dresses, bridal gowns and for some, formal night on a cruise ship.....create a fantasy that takes them away from their everyday life.

 

Thanks for your thought provoking post!!

 

Cindi

 

Thanks for your feedback. I'm glad you saw it before it was edited off and wanted to reply. I appreciate that!

 

Jane

[Curt Jerome Wild]

I'm not privy to how Project Runway works in the back offices. Curt here is our forum expert in that regard. However, it's my belief that while some of the designers who did not lose or win might be asked to stay because of the "good television" they create, I really don't think that fashion icons like Michael Kors, Richard Tyler, Nina Garcia, etc would sell themselves out to such an extent that a person who came up with a horrible losing creation could be named the winner. High fashion is not for everyone just like gourmet food isn't either.

Hey there!

"Back office" insider scoop, (but I only get details after the show airs, due to confidentiality agreements)...

The judges make the final decisions all by themselves...

In order to preserve the integrity of the show, there is no way (in actuality) that the producers will "over ride" or "veto" the judges...

BUT, here are all of the things that go on "behind the scenes" to consider...

#1 Every and all reality show/competition now has a "waiver/rider" in the contract (that you see in the credits) that the producers have the final say...

If you look at every reality show competition you will see this in the fine print credits...

One of the major reasons that this started was from American Idol, in the second season where it was so close between Cluben and Clay...

After the final show, the phone lines were so "saturated" with votes, that a lot of votes did not go through. It was literally "luck of the draw" phone votes on who won (only based on whose votes got through on the over-saturated phone system)...

The producers "knew" that Clay actually had slightly more votes for each and every week, but it didn't work out that way (although worked for them great in the long run, because they got record contracts with both of them)...

After that, American Idol, and all reality shows worked into the contract that the Producers have "final say", just in case there is another situation where there is a glitch in the system...

That being said...

On Project Runway...

The judges have the final say, but the Producers do have to produce a good and interesting show...

The requirements that they are looking for in all of the seasons are:

#1 Who is a designer with an original "unique" perspective that could actually make it in some way in the industry?

(Not somebody who is designing what the "masses" are comfortable with, or looks good, but who can be a breakout new cutting edge designer).

#2 Who are four people that are going to be able to show at Fashion Week, with Four different (unique from each other) collections?

#3 They are checking and deciding and "scouting" from day one of this show...

They are looking for the final 5 or 6 that could fulfill these requirements...

They are going to "hang onto" the designers that they are seeing that could fulfill it and show a good "unique" collection...

#4 The rest of the people, if they are not stepping up to the plate, or even worse being "boring design", and "boring TV" are out...

Because they also aren't likely to make it far in "the business"...

#5 All of the outfits apparently are completely different in person, close inspection than on TV. I know for a fact that something can look great in person (or vice/versa) and terrible onscreen due to lighting, the specific cameras and film or video stock used....

Example, apparently Jeffrey's Rock and Roll outfit from last week is apparently "impeccable" as far as fit and construction in close inspection...

And apparently according to "couture" guidelines, his dress from this past week, was above and beyond anyone else's in person and construction and sewing...

Michael's apparently is a huge mess when you see it in person, and he was only saved, because they like him, and see his potential to be in the final three...

#6 So, just general "back office" in that regard...

For example...

They really LOVED Robert personally, and expected him to do better (considered that he was a Barbie designer so would be "out there" on the cutting edge), but he kept doing boring week after week, and they kept trying to tell him...

But "boring" doesn't fulfill what they want (or what makes a good new designer), so they HAD to let him go...

Malan, they LOVED him and his personality, and were really hoping that he would go farther, but he was again making mis-steps, so integrity intact (as much as they loved him for good TV), they had to let him go...

Alison, was "okay" as a designer for the show (meaning a decent designer in real life, but never really brought any amazing or interesting designs), and was lovely in person, but boring TV; so the combination got her auf'd.

Vincent, great TV, actually (regardless of the editing, but again, gave them enough for great TV), they liked. He had a specific "unique" perspective, that they were hoping could have had potential for a great unique final four runway show...

And apparently his dress for Uli's mom, was incredible in person...

But again (integrity of the show), even though he was "great TV", after this last challenge, they couldn't keep him anymore...

As again he was inconsistent...

#7 At this point...

I could be completely wrong...

But, I think that Michael and Jeffrey are for sure in the final four...

(If not the final three)...

We are being set up in the "editing" right now, for a "surprise" either this upcoming week (final four) or next week (actual final three)...

I'm honestly not sure, but won't be surprised if

Uli, (would be biggest shock), Laura (second, but I'm thinking that she get's to at least final four if not final three), or Kane (he's obvious to be out this week from what they are editing, so it's either he is absolutely out this week - or don't be surprised if it ends up someone else).

Any of these three are on the chopping block...

There you go...

CJW

[BlueHerons]

Admittedly, the entire concept of haute couture is a tough one for me. I do understand that this is an entirely different area than, for example, ready-to-wear. I can certainly appreciate custom fitting and detailed handiwork.

 

If it helps you, the literal translation of haute couture is 'high sewing'. If you can think of haute couture as more of an art than dressmaking, it will help you. Artisans spend thousands of hours on a single dress.

 

An excellent read is "It Isn't All Mink" by Ginette Spanier who was the "directrice" of the famous House of Balmain fashion empire during its 1950s heydays. It is a great insight to haute couture.

 

It is also about her fleeing the ****s during WWII.

[Happy ks]

Curt, thank you so much for your post. I have a hard time, while reading the credits, that the producers get any say in the final decision. I've even wondered a couple of times if this wasn't why Jeffrey got to stay after the atrocious Mothers outfit he made. Or, if it was why Alison was out instead of Vincent.

 

I'm very aware the clothing looks different in person than it does on TV. Heck, it looks different from the workroom to the runway!

 

I'm also aware the moments we see on the show could actually be comments taken out of context and edited to a certain bent that the producers want on the show. They have days upon days of filming and about 20-30 real minutes of talk from the contestants.

 

But, what I think most of us are interested in is great looking clothing designs. While I appreciate that clothing trends originally start out from designs the public would not wear, we still like to see pretty things. It would be great if we saw some innovative designs coming from the show, I'm not seeing so much this season.

[ridge4]

An excellent read is "It Isn't All Mink" by Ginette Spanier who was the "directrice" of the famous House of Balmain fashion empire during its 1950s heydays. It is a great insight to haute couture.

 

It is also about her fleeing the ****s during WWII.

Thank you, that sounds like an interesting read. I am going to track that down.

 

Cindi

[BlueHerons]

Thank you, that sounds like an interesting read. I am going to track that down.

 

Cindi

 

Cindi, I think it is out of print but you can still track down used copies at www.Amazon.com.

[SeaBunny]

Just got to see last week's show because I was cruising.:D

 

I love to see how editing influences everything. For example, when Heidi was addressing the designers and spoke about originality, the camera was on Laura. When she mentioned handwork, the shot was of Vincent. Of course, this show has nothing on the more personality-based "reality" shows like Survivor and Amazine Race, but they do package people.

 

I'm getting bored with Laura. What a one trick pony (even though I love the trick)!

 

I loved Kayne's gown. But I'm notorious for wanting to overdo everything. Can we say Versace?

 

Jeffry's gown was hard to really see on TV. I couldn't tell what was what.

 

Uli and Michael are such sweethearts. Uli, however, has her look and I'm not sure what Michael's is.

 

What a great series!