Large groups onboard

[machotspur]

Thank you to everyone for the interesting views and experiences with regard to large groups onboard (including of course the insight into the world of Bridge players !).

 

When reading the posts it does appear that there is no right answer to this.

The impact of a large group depends on a range of things. One group of 200 may just mingle in and be largely invisible, as where another group of say 50 may dramatically impact on the dynamics of the whole cruise. It is difficult to forecast what the impact of a particular group will be.

 

Then there is of course one’s own tolerance level to the behaviour of others. I have to admit to being a little less tolerant than some to issues such as this.

 

One of the posts described my feelings perfectly :-

 

Remember your paying top dollar to cruise---so you shouldn't be inconvenienced  at all.

 

We were very lucky to have identified this group activity before we sailed – rarely is this the case. We were also able to carry out research on the company involved. They have a detailed website which clearly shows what they aim to achieve – a tailor made experience for their clients, which includes bringing their own personnel onboard, including a DJ !

 

It all comes down to one’s personal judgement and we feel that this group activity is highly likely to impact on our cruise.  

 

So – we have 3 choices –

 

-       go ahead with a $35,000 cruise and hope it is all OK.

-       cancel now, and get hit with a $7,500 cancellation fee (UK clients have far more draconian cancellation terms than those on the other side of the Atlantic).

-       appeal to Regent’s sense of fair play, to see if they will transfer us to another cruise without penalty.

 

Our TA is on the case with the latter suggestion so it is a bit ‘watch this space’

If Regent are not up for this suggestion we are left with a very unenviable decision !   

[1982CruzStart]

Good luck. I hope you can make the change.

 

I have to say i am glad we don't operate under the same rules as those of you in the UK. We likely would never sail with Regent as i would want to wait until i was absolutely sure we could go before booking anything that could cost us that kind of money to cancel and by then there may not be any cabins left we want. 

 

If you end up taking your booked cruise i hope you have a group like we had on our first Regent cruise.  No impact at all. 

[machotspur]

On 3/17/2019 at 4:57 PM, 1982CruzStart said:

 

Good luck. I hope you can make the change.

 

 

I'm pleased to report a 'good news' story.

 

My excellent UK cruise agency, who have a very close relationship with Regent, contacted a senior person within the company and advised them of my concerns. Although they didn't fully agree with my fears about a large group they emphathised with our discomfort and within a couple of days agreed to move us to another similar cruise - no fuss, no penalty.

 

All credit to Regent -- irrespective of the T&C's for the booking they did the right thing for the customer. I am not sure that some of the other competitors would have behaved in the same way. Regent should be applauded in this instance in my opinion.          

[Wendy The Wanderer]

I'm not sure I understand exactly what a "business incentive" passenger even is.  But nevertheless, we've had a few groups, mostly on the Paul Gauguin when Regent operated it.  Two had very little impact, one did.  There was one that was a Grand Circle group, which just meant that they were travelling under the company's tour direction, had their own tour desk, but not much else, they were fine.  Then there was the guy from L.A. who brought 50 of his best friends on the PG for his birthday--that was a hoot, and had no impact on anyone else, in fact they were fun to watch.  Then there was the third group, a corporate group, maybe that's what a business incentive is--a prize for top performers?  There were more than 100 of them, including wives.  They not only took over venues including bars and dining rooms, but they commandeered tenders and completely ignored the ship's (fine) entertainment in favour of their own.  It was a debacle, our only bad experience on that ship, although we still managed to have a good time.  I would avoid another similar group like the plague.

[UUNetBill]

3 minutes ago, Wendy The Wanderer said:

I'm not sure I understand exactly what a "business incentive" passenger even is.  But nevertheless, we've had a few groups, mostly on the Paul Gauguin when Regent operated it.  Two had very little impact, one did.  There was one that was a Grand Circle group, which just meant that they were travelling under the company's tour direction, had their own tour desk, but not much else, they were fine.  Then there was the guy from L.A. who brought 50 of his best friends on the PG for his birthday--that was a hoot, and had no impact on anyone else, in fact they were fun to watch.  Then there was the third group, a corporate group, maybe that's what a business incentive is--a prize for top performers?  There were more than 100 of them, including wives.  They not only took over venues including bars and dining rooms, but they commandeered tenders and completely ignored the ship's (fine) entertainment in favour of their own.  It was a debacle, our only bad experience on that ship, although we still managed to have a good time.  I would avoid another similar group like the plague.

We had a similar group on an early cruise - probably between 100-150 corporate drones - and it definitely affected the vibe on the ship.  While we could still find some relatively quiet places on board to relax and/or socialize, it was hard to avoid the cliques cluttering the lounges and restaurants.  And the pool deck was virtually unusable.

 

The problem is that you don't really know A) if there's a group like that on board, and B) if said group is going to be obtrusive or not.  I do feel that Regent should have that information available and provide it upon request and let people decide if they still want to book.  I agree 100% with Wendy, though - I'd avoid any cruises that had large corporate groups on board.

[Wendy The Wanderer]

22 minutes ago, UUNetBill said:

And the pool deck was virtually unusable.

 

Oh yes, I forgot that.  The A-types with their trophy wives littering the edge of the pool--completely unusable.  

[machotspur]

1 hour ago, Wendy The Wanderer said:

I would avoid another similar group like the plague.

 

1 hour ago, UUNetBill said:

The problem is that you don't really know A) if there's a group like that on board, and B) if said group is going to be obtrusive or not.  I do feel that Regent should have that information available and provide it upon request and let people decide if they still want to book.  I agree 100% with Wendy, though - I'd avoid any cruises that had large corporate groups on board.

 

And that's where - as I mentioned in the original post - with the help of Google we were lucky to stumble over the existence of group on our forthcoming cruise purely by chance. When booking a cruise one just doesn't know who else is on there with you ! 

Plus Regent being considerate and customer focused in allowing us to change to another cruise was a result for us, in permitting us to switch to a different cruise.

 

I'm not sure what the answer is. I can't see any cruise company advising potential clients who else is on the ship with them. Aside from potential data protection issues, where would they draw the line ?  And would they want to anyway when they would be potentially turning customers away ? 

 

I'm genuinely surprised at the number of people that have posted on here in just a few days, that have experience of large groups on cruises they have been on. We have clearly been lucky. Having taken quite a number of cruises with the likes of  Silversea/Seabourn/Regent we have yet to come across a group larger than a family.  

[Travelcat2]

Cruise line would not have to divulge the company that will be onboard but could reveal the size of the group and whether or not it was an "incentive group" (usually the worst).  On the other hand, I do understand that cruise lines do not want to reveal this information as they would have difficulty filing the rest of the ship.

 

Silversea has it a bit easier as their ships are smaller and they charter the whole ship.  This is good and not so good because when they get a charter, they can cancel the cruise that you are booked on (this may have changed since Silversea is under new ownership).

 

Wendy - one example of a "business incentive" cruise is when there is a contest (usually in the sales and marketing areas of a large company).  Sometimes the top performers (can be lots of them - depending upon the size of the company) win a cruise.  Many of these "winners" have not cruised before -- many know each other so there are groups within the groups and some just want to drink and party until the wee hours of the morning.  

Edited March 19, 2019 by Travelcat2

[MalbecWine]

Our TA will tell us if there is a group onboard or a partial charter so we can make our decision.  We always enquire and also she can get information about how many children’s are expected.  This is a big deciding factor to us.

[UUNetBill]

Bear in mind, too, that we’ve encountered one large group in 10 cruises.  Not a bad percentage, really, when you consider that one or two obnoxious couples or families can adversely affect a cruise just as easily. 

 

While I’d try and avoid a partial charter/large group, it would have to be something really bad to keep me away from a sailing that I really liked.

[travelwell]

After our experience with our 1/3 of the ship being an alumni group we now have our TA ask if large groups are booked. We have lucked out with children. On Our 7 day summer sailing on 

Regent we had several well behaved children who did not impact us. On our last two week Seabourn we saw an infant on boarding and rolled our eyes. Boy were we wrong, there was a village of family members taking care of the baby and we did not hear that baby so much as whimper for 2 weeks.

[Wendy The Wanderer]

On 3/19/2019 at 3:25 PM, Travelcat2 said:

...

Wendy - one example of a "business incentive" cruise is when there is a contest (usually in the sales and marketing areas of a large company).  Sometimes the top performers (can be lots of them - depending upon the size of the company) win a cruise.  Many of these "winners" have not cruised before -- many know each other so there are groups within the groups and some just want to drink and party until the wee hours of the morning.  

 

Oh ugh, yes, the worst.  That's what our group on the PG was like, so it may very well have been of that type. I called them "Chuckie Cheezers", although that wasn't the corporation--a restaurant chain with the word "cheese" in it.

 

I really felt bad for the onboard entertainers--the show lounge was only about 25% occupied on a typical evening, the Cheezer being off getting drunk at their own parties.

Edited March 20, 2019 by Wendy The Wanderer

[RachelG]

I swear we must have been on the same cruise, Wendy and David.  That is exactly what happened on ours.  The worst part was on the tenders, as I don't go to the pool and could stay out of the bar.  But on the tender was terrible and with no escape.

[Wendy The Wanderer]

On 3/20/2019 at 5:00 PM, RachelG said:

I swear we must have been on the same cruise, Wendy and David.  That is exactly what happened on ours.  The worst part was on the tenders, as I don't go to the pool and could stay out of the bar.  But on the tender was terrible and with no escape.

 

May/June 2005.  We did a b2b, Societies Islands twice, it was the second one.  IT was when Grand Circle and Radisson were fighting over costs.

[Travelcat2]

7 minutes ago, Wendy The Wanderer said:

 

May/June 2005.  We did a b2b, Societies Islands twice, it was the second one.  IT was when Grand Circle and Radisson were fighting over costs.

 

That was a horrible time for the PG.  Food and everything declined for a while.  

 

After all of this discussion, we are still considering the cruise with the group.......... my DH thinks that we can put up with it (more than we could put up with the same cruise at Christmas).  The odds of children being onboard is dramatically less and South Africa is one of our favorite places on earth.  We would like to spend more time in Cape Town before the cruise and do things that we did not have time to do during our last two visits.

[DavidTheWonderer]

On 3/20/2019 at 5:00 PM, RachelG said:

... The worst part was on the tenders, ...

We were sailing with friends, who I will not name here.  They had gone ashore in Moorea and along with some other folks were waiting to take the tender back to the ship.  There was some sort of car rally for the Chuckie Cheezers on Moorea, and they were running late in getting them over to Moorea.  So when the tender showed up to deliver a batch of Cheezers, at first the crew refused to let our people board to get back to the ship.  This led to the infamous "Mutiny on the Tender" and, unlike Bligh, the "captain" of the tender wisely relented and let people board.

[Crosspost]

On 3/15/2019 at 3:40 PM, machotspur said:

We're have a booking on Voyager in 2020 for an 18 day Itinerary.

 

Whilst this is a little way off yet we have been carrying out a little bit of advance research this week. I am glad we did !

 

Purely by luck we have identified that there will be a large organised group of at least 70 people on the ship. I suspect there is every chance this could increase.

Reading their website it appears that aspects of the onboard experience is likely to be tailor made for the needs & tastes of the group. e.g. they bring their own DJ onboard to play music to their tastes.

 

Having a large group on a cruise can sometimes be intrusive, but if the onboard product is altered for a group, to the detriment of the independent traveller, then this is surely taking things to another level.

 

Does anyone out there have any views or personal experiences they would like to share ?    

       

The first thing you need to do is find out why these people are a group. It might be through a particular agent or something like that, in which case it might be less of an issue. However, if it is a 'corporate incentive trip' (alternative name 'Booze cruise')  then I would cancel now and I will explain why.  

 

We booked a 17 day cruise on the Voyager which started on 23 February 2019. When we booked nine months in advance there was limited availability - penthouse and above.

 

 

The original 17 day itinerary is still on Cruise Critic, when you go to write a review. However, without telling us they split the cruise into 10 days and 7 days, changed the itinerary so we had to go back to Miami and suddenly there was availability in the first 10 days.This was because 2 x groups of 250 got on in Miami for the 7 day cruise - both were corporate 'incentive' trips. 

 

Regent must have known they had these bookings (which company books incentive trips anything less than two years in advance?), they must know that '7 day cruising' has a reputation in the market (apparently) and as a result no-one would fill up the other cabins, so they billed this as a 17 day cruise, knowing they were going to split it. I have said this to them and no-one has denied it. Apparently there were 73 of us on board who had booked a 17 day cruise.One group was absolutely fine although ultimately were a group - wore their corporate T-shirts reminding us they were on a corporate jolly and did not join in with anything such as trivia.

 

The second group were a complete nightmare. They clearly had no idea about Regent or its brand. They drank most of the day, one table ordered everything off the menu on the first night (18 courses for 6 people) which slows down the dinner service, they were  inappropriately dressed, rude, talked through the shows, turned the pool deck into a no go area as they reserved all the sunbeds with books taken from the library..and took glass bottles in the pool. Trivia went from standing room only to three teams. I would never go on any ship where there was an incentive trip group booking and if we had been told that two thirds of the passengers were on a corporate incentive trip we would have cancelled. Your cruise will probably be split in two like ours was and so you will have the same shows, lectures etc and lose a day disembarking and embarking the new passengers half way through.

[Crosspost]

On 3/18/2019 at 7:45 PM, machotspur said:

 

I'm pleased to report a 'good news' story.

 

My excellent UK cruise agency, who have a very close relationship with Regent, contacted a senior person within the company and advised them of my concerns. Although they didn't fully agree with my fears about a large group they emphathised with our discomfort and within a couple of days agreed to move us to another similar cruise - no fuss, no penalty.

 

All credit to Regent -- irrespective of the T&C's for the booking they did the right thing for the customer. I am not sure that some of the other competitors would have behaved in the same way. Regent should be applauded in this instance in my opinion.          

Good to hear that Regent have done the right thing. Perhaps they did learn something from the many. many complaints they received about our cruise. They have confirmed in writing that booking two large groups on one cruise was a mistake and will never happen again, but it shows a distinct lack of control that it happened in the first place.

[Johnthesailor]

I may have missed it but which exact cruise has the group on it?  There are two Voyager cruises for South Africa in Dec 2020, one of which we just booked.  Also, where can I find out more about the group that is booked - 70 might be ok but much larger would cause hesitation on our part.

 

Thanks in advance.

john

[machotspur]

2 hours ago, Crosspost said:

The first thing you need to do is find out why these people are a group. It might be through a particular agent or something like that, in which case it might be less of an issue. However, if it is a 'corporate incentive trip' (alternative name 'Booze cruise')  then I would cancel now and I will explain why.  

 

 

 

2 hours ago, Crosspost said:

 

 

Thank you for taking the time to respond to my original post.

 

Yes - you are of course quite correct in identifying the varied impact that different type of groups can have, hence we carried out significant research to identify the characteristics of the one that was to be on our cruise. It was a leisure group,  organised by a specialist tour operator that was targeting people that had particular interests, culture and needs.   

 

Our conclusion was that they were most probably very nice people, however we concluded that the impact that this group could have on our trip was too much for us.  We were reliably informed that the group would - for an undeclared period of time - be closing down certain dining/lounge facilities and/or conducting their group activities in public areas.

 

We decided that for us at least this wasn't acceptable. Others may of course think differently.   

[machotspur]

1 hour ago, Johnthesailor said:

I may have missed it but which exact cruise has the group on it?  There are two Voyager cruises for South Africa in Dec 2020, one of which we just booked.  Also, where can I find out more about the group that is booked - 70 might be ok but much larger would cause hesitation on our part.

 

Thanks in advance.

john

 

John

 

We were originally on the first cruise, and have now switched to the 2nd.

 

Yes - I agree that 70 might not have an impact, but our research, the (non confidential) info provided from Regent, and our generally gut feeling was that they would have an impact on our trip, hence we decided to change.  

 

You will know that the 2nd cruise is over Christmas & New Year. Do take a look at the thread started off last week on this very subject, when we were seeking advice on if Christmas cruises are for us. (we concluded they are - in South Africa at least).   

[RachelG]

15 hours ago, Wendy The Wanderer said:

 

May/June 2005.  We did a b2b, Societies Islands twice, it was the second one.  IT was when Grand Circle and Radisson were fighting over costs.

Ours was August 2005 if I recall correctly.  Regent must have been doing a big incentive business then.  I am thinking the group was Outback Steakhouse but could be wrong.  It was something like that though.  But same sorts of behaviors as you describe.

[Crosspost]

1 hour ago, machotspur said:

 

 

Thank you for taking the time to respond to my original post.

 

Yes - you are of course quite correct in identifying the varied impact that different type of groups can have, hence we carried out significant research to identify the characteristics of the one that was to be on our cruise. It was a leisure group,  organised by a specialist tour operator that was targeting people that had particular interests, culture and needs.   

 

Our conclusion was that they were most probably very nice people, however we concluded that the impact that this group could have on our trip was too much for us.  We were reliably informed that the group would - for an undeclared period of time - be closing down certain dining/lounge facilities and/or conducting their group activities in public areas.

 

We decided that for us at least this wasn't acceptable. Others may of course think differently.   

We would have taken exactly the same decision as you - it is very difficult when an 'us and them' situation arises, no matter how well meaning. I am so delighted that Regent has allowed you to change this. This is reflective of the Regent we have known over the last few years, rather than the one we have experienced recently. 

[Johnthesailor]

Machotspur,

Thanks for the heads up.  Not sure if the second sailing works for us or has the Victoria Falls option but we have to do a bit more research.  I found the info about the group and will have to speak with Regent.  My concern is what venues will be taken over, for how long and at what time.  I'd hate to be excluded from , say, the observation lounge or the Voyager lounge for a pre-dinner drink but would have no concern about them being turned into their group dance parties with their own DJ if it was say, after 10PM.  It does appear that they are selling a  group of 70 (although not necessarily limited to that) as they do some small groups but they usually charter entire ships. 

 

Jackie,

If you still have my or Jan's email (it would end in sbcglobal.net), I'll be glad to provide you with what I find out.  Otherwise, if we take it and you take it I look forward to seeing you.  I think the last time was in South Africa but if not the last time we were definitely on that cruise with you.

 

Best,

John

 

 

[machotspur]

33 minutes ago, Johnthesailor said:

Machotspur,

Thanks for the heads up.  Not sure if the second sailing works for us or has the Victoria Falls option but we have to do a bit more research. 

 

Hello again John

 

A quick alternative that may appeal to you. 

 

Three years ago we took the Rovos train from Vic Falls to Pretoria/JoBurg then across to Cape Town - around 5 nights in all if I remember correctly + a couple of nights in Vic Falls itself. (We also spent a few days exploring the sites of the Zulu/Boer wars, but this is probably of limited interest to US travellers).

 

The Rovos experience, whilst not being without fault, is a pretty high quality experience - better than any other 'experience' train we have been on.

 

Of course it all depends on time and cash availability !