Viking Sky survivors

[OnTheJourney]

16 hours ago, Heidi13 said:

The bank suction and squat forces

Andy....can you elaborate on what this refers to?  Most interesting...thanks for your continued technical anaylses. 

[Heidi13]

2 hours ago, OnTheJourney said:

Andy....can you elaborate on what this refers to?  Most interesting...thanks for your continued technical anaylses. 

 

Most certainly.

 

The first thing to consider is when a ship moves through the water, it displaces water. When in the open sea this displacement does not set up additional forces, as it has lots of space to disipate.

 

When a ship moves along a narrow and/or shallow channel, the water displaced is restricted, which introduces  additional forces based on the Bernoulli Principle of fluid dynamics. Explaining this to my officers, I always described my transit through Panama Canal on SS Oriana, which was almost Panamax dimensions. Going into the locks, we had to displace an amount of water equal to the ship's displacement. With minimum clearance down both sides and under the keel, water built up ahead of us, requiring significant power to push the ship into the lock. We were pushing 1/2 ahead into the lock until a short distance from the fwd gate. Soon as the engines stopped, the ship stopped.

 

In a narrow channel, the bow wave can tend to push the bow away from the bank. This is also evident when passing ships in narrow channels - example in Gatun Lake in Panama. As you approach another ship, both of the ships bows are pushed away from each other. The effect is compounded at the stern, where the propellor pulls the stern into the bank. On passing ships, both sterns are pulled together. With banks, you have another potential effect, where with reduced pressure, the ship is bodily pulled towards the bank.

 

Squat is present with deep draught ships in shallow water. The water beneath the hull must speed up, so results in lower pressure. Therefore, the ships sinks bodily, with the sinkage increasing with increased speed.

 

Fairly basic explanations, so if anyone wants more detailed explanations, I suggest searching "bank effect shiphandling" and "squat shiphandling".

[johneb2]

On 3/25/2021 at 9:44 AM, Heidi13 said:

 

Affirmative, I believe they are focussing on local coasters, supply boats, F/V's, etc. The other consideration with ships the size of Viking Ocean is how to vent the exhaust gases from a tunnel a mile long. Cruise ships this size have a considerable hotel load, in addition to propulsion requirements.

Thanks to both of you for very informative information.    JohnEB

[OnTheJourney]

On 3/25/2021 at 1:28 PM, Heidi13 said:

Fairly basic explanations, so if anyone wants more detailed explanations, I suggest searching "bank effect shiphandling" and "squat shiphandling".

Fascinating. Bernoulli's is, of course, associated with the generation of lift in an aircraft due to the higher pressure (slower moving air) under as opposed to the faster moving air (lower pressure) over the top of the curved wing's surface. Also applicable to carburation systems in engines or pretty much any venturi system. Cool stuff. 

[chengkp75]

On 3/25/2021 at 9:44 AM, Heidi13 said:

 

Affirmative, I believe they are focussing on local coasters, supply boats, F/V's, etc. The other consideration with ships the size of Viking Ocean is how to vent the exhaust gases from a tunnel a mile long. Cruise ships this size have a considerable hotel load, in addition to propulsion requirements.

The tunnel is designed for the Hurtigruten ferries, so only a few hundred pax.

[chengkp75]

On 3/26/2021 at 9:15 PM, OnTheJourney said:

Fascinating. Bernoulli's is, of course, associated with the generation of lift in an aircraft due to the higher pressure (slower moving air) under as opposed to the faster moving air (lower pressure) over the top of the curved wing's surface. Also applicable to carburation systems in engines or pretty much any venturi system. Cool stuff. 

Another example of "squat" is the Queen Mary, that lines up on the Verrazano Narrows bridge, and increases speed to increase squat thereby increasing the clearance under the bridge to legal limits.

 

As with this tunnel, as Andy says, with the ship filling the tunnel side to side, and nearly the full depth of the tunnel, all the water is either pushed ahead of the ship for the entire length of the tunnel, or it races back along the sides and underneath.  In this case, since the clearance is tight on both sides, the bank suction will oscillate between the sides and cause lateral instability to maintain constant heading.  Slow speed and experienced helmsmen are needed to keep from bouncing off the sides of the tunnel. 

[AmazedByCruising]

On 3/27/2021 at 2:15 AM, OnTheJourney said:

Fascinating. Bernoulli's is, of course, associated with the generation of lift in an aircraft due to the higher pressure (slower moving air) under as opposed to the faster moving air (lower pressure) over the top of the curved wing's surface. Also applicable to carburation systems in engines or pretty much any venturi system. Cool stuff. 

 

Except that this popular explanation of how planes fly is wrong 🙂https://xkcd.com/803/

[chengkp75]

13 minutes ago, AmazedByCruising said:

 

Except that this popular explanation of how planes fly is wrong 🙂https://xkcd.com/803/

Actually, it's not.  When a plane flies upside down, it must increase the angle of attack of the wing, so air piles up underneath the wing, forcing it up.  Upside down flight does not depend on bernoulli's principal, but upright flight does.

[AmazedByCruising]

3 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

Actually, it's not.  When a plane flies upside down, it must increase the angle of attack of the wing, so air piles up underneath the wing, forcing it up.  Upside down flight does not depend on bernoulli's principal, but upright flight does.

 

I realize that you don't take Wikipedia as a source, but here it is:  (with links to a lot of non-Wikipedia sources)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lift_(force)#False_explanation_based_on_equal_transit-time

[OnTheJourney]

Any fellow 'survivors' hear anything further on a possibly rescheduled Chairman's cruise? Just wondered. 

[johneb2]

I am wondering also, especially since the Venus is now open for regular cruises.  The only thing I can see is if they block out a certain time period for a cruise or give us vouchers, but that is pure speculation.  Can you image if it was decided to have a rerun of the "In Search of the Northern Lights" cruise for the survivors only!   JohnEB

[OnTheJourney]

3 hours ago, johneb2 said:

Can you image if it was decided to have a rerun of the "In Search of the Northern Lights" cruise for the survivors only! 

 😳No.....   Then again, in all seriousness, I believe I'd go on that trip again - would like to actually finish it next time!  As you say, since the Venus is now in operation, makes me wonder if an actual cruise will ever really happen or might we just receive another voucher. We're nearly half-way through '21 already.  At this point, wouldn't really need to be on the Venus anyway. The idea there, as we all know, was an inaugural sailing on a new ship. When does Venus start taking on passengers?  I've not bothered trying to keep up with where she is or when cruises start on her. 

Edited May 5, 2021 by OnTheJourney

[CCWineLover]

49 minutes ago, OnTheJourney said:

 When does Venus start taking on passengers?  I've not bothered trying to keep up with where she is or when cruises start on her. 

OTJ - Viking Venus is kicking off cruising by doing the UK only cruises beginning May 22.  Open only to UK passengers.

http://crew-center.com/viking-goes-step-further-crew-standby-pay-vaccination-and-testing-labs

May 4th article:

Viking ocean-going cruise ships are in the final stage of preparations for the upcoming cruise season, starting with the Viking Venus which will set sail on her first voyage on May 22, with round-trip cruises in the U.K. from the port of Portsmouth. The crew onboard Viking Venus have already received the first dose of the vaccine against Covid-19 ahead of the ship’s maiden voyage. According to our source, Viking Venus crew were the first to get the vaccine while the ship was in Malta.

[OnTheJourney]

7 minutes ago, CCWineLover said:

Viking Venus is kicking off cruising by doing the UK only cruises

Thanks CC. I should have known that since, now that you say it, there have been enough posts about it here on the boards.

 

I don't honestly foresee whatever new itinerary comes about for a chairman's cruise to be anything as extensive as originally planned. It would have worked out so nicely - ending in Barcelona and then we also had the "Iberian Explorer" cruise starting there and ending in London. We even worked it out so that we would have stayed in our room onboard during the overnight between both cruises instead of having to book a hotel for the evening. Plus, except for disembarking in London, the entire voyage were all places we've never been to. I think it was probably the most excited I've been about any cruise especially once it all finally came together and everything booked. I spent weeks researching hotels in Rome and so had 4 nights booked at one pre-cruise. Plus, we viewed it as a 40th anniversary trip. Oh well....see what happens, if anything. 

Edited May 6, 2021 by OnTheJourney

[CCWineLover]

Keep the faith, OTJ !

And the health, as I do think we'll be back cruising again sometime.  Might be mid 2022 or 2023 before cruising on Viking exists somewhat like before (no Viking Bubble, being able to wander around on your own or take private excursions, etc).

[OnTheJourney]

2 minutes ago, CCWineLover said:

Keep the faith, OTJ !

I will do that...just got another brochure today. There are a good many Viking trips that are very attractive to us. Right about now, any trip looks inviting. 

[DGHOC]

Just putting it out there............. could our inaugural cruise be transferred to a new ship? When's the next one due?

Edited May 6, 2021 by DGHOC

[Heidi13]

7 minutes ago, DGHOC said:

Just putting it out there............. could our inaugural cruise be transferred to a new ship? When's the next one due?

 

Viking has 2 ships entering service next year:

• Mars - starts maiden voyage 28th May 2022 in Barcelona
• Neptune - current start is in Ft Lauderdale 22nd December 2022

Therefore, Mars will probably be accepted from the yard in late April/early May and could be available until Barcelona. Neptune will probably be accepted from the yard in November and has nothing published yet for the TA crossing.

[DGHOC]

Certainly a possibility then!

 

I'm really holding my breath actually. My third attempt at Russia and the Baltic is in May 2022, it'll be Sod's law if it coincides and I have to move it again!

[OnTheJourney]

22 hours ago, DGHOC said:

My third attempt at Russia and the Baltic is in May 2022, it'll be Sod's law if it coincides and I have to move it again!

This is exactly my concern as well. Before I read your post, Andy mentioning the maiden voyage of the Mars immediately made me think that IF a chairman's cruise would be scheduled next May, I wind up having to reschedule another (already rescheduled) non-Viking cruise. If a chairman's cruise would wind up in March...same thing. I seem to recall one of Hagen's emails saying that he'd give us all plenty of time - but given that people book cruises 1-2 years (or even farther) out - it really becomes hit or miss.

 

For me,  it really wouldn't even need to be a maiden voyage on a new ship. That was surely a cool idea, but where and when the cruise takes place is more important to me than what ship it's on. I do think that a sailing reserved for basically just the Sky guests is the primary intention, and so, as such, I guess a maiden / inaugural voyage best meets that goal - although I've been booked on cruises that suddenly became unavailable due to being converted to a private charter (great way to tick off passengers I suppose - it happened to relatives who vowed to never sail with that line again!). 

Edited May 7, 2021 by OnTheJourney

[OnTheJourney]

22 hours ago, DGHOC said:

My third attempt at Russia and the Baltic

HOPING you get to go. We did one back in '15 and it was a great (but very busy) cruise. I don't even recall that we had a sea day. We had 3 days in SPB and used Alla Tours - small group of only 11 - with a terrific Russian guide. In Warnemunde we opted not to take the long train ride to get to Berlin and back, so haven't been there yet but would like to. 

 

Funny you mention this cause DW and I were just looking at the "Viking Homelands" itinerary in a recent brochure and saying that we could go to all those places again that we visited 6 years ago. Looks like a great trip - not sure if that's the one you might be referring to. 

Edited May 7, 2021 by OnTheJourney

[OnTheJourney]

I posted some updated thoughts on the whole idea of an invitational cruise on the roll call website. Anybody else have a take on it?  https://boards.cruisecritic.com/topic/2725069-viking-venus-invitational-cruise-sky-guests-january-19-2021/page/8/

 

[johneb2]

I agree with you.  As you have stated, many of us are rebooking trips and making plans.  We liked the idea of an inaugural cruise of one of the new ships in 2023.  Yes, it is a ways out, but it still will be special having us together again, with special activities designed for our situation.  If that is not possible, than a special cruise should be added to the schedule.  I also wondered also if a river cruise would be considered, but given the capacity of those ships I doubt it would be viable.  We are looking forward to travelling again, so Viking if you are reading this, please help us out by communicating to us about your plans.  Most of all thank you for your generous offer and handling of our situation.   JohnEB

[OnTheJourney]

31 minutes ago, johneb2 said:

We liked the idea of an inaugural cruise of one of the new ships in 2023.

John, was this idea actually suggested by Viking? If so, I don't recall seeing it. I presume the most recent communication was the letter by Mr. Hagen back in March.  

The idea of a river trip is also a good one but, as you say, it wouldn't accommodate  the potential number of Sky passengers. I guess a good first step would be to ascertain - as best as possible - the level of interest, since it may have waned from what it might have been previously. As Viking's schedule continues to expand now that cruises are resuming, I'd think that planning for a revised invitational trip doesn't become any easier with all the other complexities that have to be dealt with. 

Edited May 29, 2021 by OnTheJourney

[OnTheJourney]

33 minutes ago, johneb2 said:

Viking if you are reading this, please help us out by communicating to us about your plans. 

Yes...that's the main point I was trying to convey.