I must be in the minority for male attire

[kingclick]

There is a risk to being a nonconformist.

 

Back in 2004, while on the Zaandam on a 21 day cruise from Vancouver to Port Canaveral, Florida, a man came to formal night dinner dressed in slacks and a button-down sports shirt -- no jacket, no tie. Jerry, the Matre’ D, came over while their drink orders were being taken, and I could hear him say in a quiet yet respectful tone, “Sir, tonight is formal night.”

 

“Yes?” the man replied.

 

“I’m afraid I’m going to have to ask you to return to your cabin and retrieve a jacket and tie.”

 

“But the dress code says that’s suggested.”

 

“No, sir. What’s suggested is a tuxedo; what is required is a jacket and tie.”

 

“Required?”

 

“Correct, sir.”

 

“What if I refuse?”

 

“Then, sir, you will not be served in the Dining Room.”

 

“You’re kidding me.”

 

“No, sir, I'm not kidding you.” The Matre’ D then stood up straight and walked away, apparently stopping to inform the area supervisor of the situation.

 

After a few minutes, the fellow got up and left. Less than 10 minutes later he showed up in slacks, a sports jacket, white shirt and tie. Nothing else was said, either by the Matre’ D nor by his table companions, but I’m sure the fellow was more than just a little bit embarrassed. I was reminded of our discussions on this board a few months back ... it's that kind of embarrassment that I'd rather certain people not have to experience. This fellow's not being dressed in formal garb didn't both me at all -- I couldn't even see him, given that was was seated behind me -- but he was made to be embarrassed thanks to his own unwillingness to conform.

 

I would rather NOT see anyone be so embarrassed.

 

On the Oosterdam this past January, on a casual night, a guy and his woman tried to enter the main dining room dressed in shorts and tank tops. The stewards would not seat them.

 

WONDERFUL post! It clearly expresses the concept of the dress code and how Hal handles their code.

 

I'm sure that you have been told this numerous times before but your posts and advice have been not only informative but entertaining as well.

 

And funny thing happened to me the other day....I did a google for a map of HMC and guess who had some photos that were very helpful. Actually made me chuckle.

 

Sorry for the sidetrack.

[RevNeal]

Maybe it's just my husband who doesn't have a suit (nor does he want one). I referenced my husband as a surfer because that is his way of life. His profession does not require him to dress up. His every day life does not require anything more than shorts. Truly, getting him to wear slacks is a miracle.

 

I find this an interesting statement. Is this fellow a perpetual teenager? What kind of guy doesn't own a suit or a jacket? What does such a guy wear to religious services ... and I'm not talking about regular services, but just weddings and funerals? What about other festive events that require "dressing up?" What about nights at the symphony, or the opera, or other such events? At least a jacket and slacks, dress shirt and tie should be a part of EVERY man's wardrobe ... if not multiple sets of this kind of clothing. If thinking and saying his makes me a snob, or judgmental, than so-be-it.

 

A month, or so, ago, I observed on this board that we who like dressing up can't win on this subject because the argument for not wanting to wear jackets and ties can come from EITHER direction. As we heard, at that time, some guys have to wear suits and ties to work every day, so they don't want to have to wear such on a cruise. They're on vacation, after all! In this case, however, we have the exact opposite explination proffered for why someone would not want to wear such garb: this fellow never has to wear suits and ties, and don't even own much in the way of that kind of clothing, and certainly isn't "comfortable" in such garb ... hence, he doesn't want to wear such on a cruise. He's on his surfing vacation after all! <sigh> I'm surprised that someone making such an argument doesn't argue for being allowed to walk around the ship on formal night dressed in jams that only come up to his mid-seat, no shirt, and reeking of sun-tan oil.

 

I have to wear "dress clothing" to work -- heck, I wear DRESSES in my job! ;) -- yet I don't mind "suiting up" in my uniform for formal nights. But, just because I have to dress every day doesn't mean that, when on the beach, I feel I must wear a suit and clerical collar! :) I'm in swim trunks when I'm on the Beach! Why? Because it's the kind of clothing expected at the beach! On formal nights, however, I "suit up." Why? Not because I have to suit up every day in my work but, rather, because it's what is expected for formal night!

[RevNeal]

And funny thing happened to me the other day....I did a google for a map of HMC and guess who had some photos that were very helpful. Actually made me chuckle.

 

I am honored and thankful. :) Glad to be of service.

[lougee1043]

I find this an interesting statement. Is this fellow a perpetual teenager? What kind of guy doesn't own a suit or a jacket? What does such a guy wear to religious services ... and I'm not talking about regular services, but just weddings and funerals? What about other festive events that require "dressing up?" What about nights at the symphony, or the opera, or other such events? quote]

 

somehow i think the events that you posted dont enter into the equation

 

as posted 1000 times earlier you are not going to change the mind of someone that wants to buck the dress code-- to tell them its an insult to all the other pax doesnt work because the person doesnt care- to tell them that there are other cruise lines with less stringent dress codes wont work because they all have a reason to be on a hal ship

 

i just wish that all maitre d's were strict at the doors to the dining room and turn away those pax who dont conform

 

there are always excuses but i dont understand how people just dont care about others

[bonstersd]

I find this an interesting statement. Is this fellow a perpetual teenager? What kind of guy doesn't own a suit or a jacket? What does such a guy wear to religious services ... and I'm not talking about regular services, but just weddings and funerals? What about other festive events that require "dressing up?" What about nights at the symphony, or the opera, or other such events? At least a jacket and slacks, dress shirt and tie should be a part of EVERY man's wardrobe ... if not multiple sets of this kind of clothing. If thinking and saying his makes me a snob, or judgmental, than so-be-it.

 

A month, or so, ago, I observed on this board that we who like dressing up can't win on this subject because the argument for not wanting to wear jackets and ties can come from EITHER direction. As we heard, at that time, some guys have to wear suits and ties to work every day, so they don't want to have to wear such on a cruise. They're on vacation, after all! In this case, however, we have the exact opposite explination proffered for why someone would not want to wear such garb: this fellow never has to wear suits and ties, and don't even own much in the way of that kind of clothing, and certainly isn't "comfortable" in such garb ... hence, he doesn't want to wear such on a cruise. He's on his surfing vacation after all! <sigh> I'm surprised that someone making such an argument doesn't argue for being allowed to walk around the ship on formal night dressed in jams that only come up to his mid-seat, no shirt, and reeking of sun-tan oil.

 

As I said previously, my husband does not own a suit or a tux, but does own a sportscoat. I said that he would wear the sportscoat and slacks and a nice shirt. I did not say he would wear shorts and flip flops. I thought your earlier post regarding one man's embarrassment was meant with the best of intentions; however this one is simply shocking. Dear RevNeal, I am sure you can gather that we do not attend the symphony or the opera. And, as I said previously, this will be my husband's first cruise...he is not a perpetual cruiser who does not dress for dinner...for all I know, maybe he will. I will tell him to wear what he wants though and we will dine accordingly. And wouldn't it be nice if everyone had the same dress attire? Then we could all be the same.

[gizmo]

I find this an interesting statement. Is this fellow a perpetual teenager? What kind of guy doesn't own a suit or a jacket? What does such a guy wear to religious services ... and I'm not talking about regular services, but just weddings and funerals?

 

A guy that doesn't own a jacket or a suite. I know someone who had to borrow a suite, tie, and shoes for his father's funeral. ;)

[herb]

I must say that these threads about formal wear vs. dressing casually are a surprise to me on the HAL boards.

 

Having cruised before on the more "mainstream" cruiselines (Carnival, RCI, NCL) I had become very accustomed to reading all the threads on "I'm not getting dressed up, so there"....

 

but on the HAL boards I was hoping to read more threads on:

 

1. How many tuxes will you be bringing along?

2. Ladies, do you dare wear a gown bought "off the rack"?

 

;)

[caviargal]

On the handful of times over the years that I have seen pax turned away from the dining room for not being properly attired, I have stopped on my way out of the DR to thank the person who told them they were not attired appropriately. I appreciated that they took responsibility to maintain the ambiance of the formal dining room and wish this were a given.

 

It does seem that those who choose to dress this way are often belligerent or argumentative when asked to leave. It leads me to the assumption there is a correlation between manners in general and respect for proper attire.

 

I was once asked to put on a proper shirt when making my way into the Lido buffet on an RCI ship because my sarong did not fully cover my swimsuit top. I was embarrassed as I am normally very conscious of these things and immediately threw on a T shirt. It did not occur to me to question or to argue as the guidelines were clearly posted.

[grannynurse]

double post, sorry

[MikeT718]

TO me if you did not want to be judged then you should not have posted this thread on a HAL board:D . What you should jave done is not posted this thread and just showed up dressed as you wanted!!:confused:

If you are looking for approval of what you are going to wear it is not going to happen here. If you don't want any part of formal nights either cruise on another line. or have dinner in your cabin and hang out in your cabin on formal nights because if you look at the book the dress code is for ALL public areas on the ship for the ENTIRE NIGHT

[grannynurse]

I think what most of us are trying to say is not dependent on rights, status, personal privilege or "my money is as good as anyone else's", or "I'm on vacation and I'll dress the way I please" .

 

We're all independent thinkers, have our own strong opinions, and are fairly well educated mature people. What we're trying to express is

 

RESPECT for ourselves and others,

 

not being conformists, or goody two shoes, or moralizers.

 

I want to have repect for the rules, the environment, and my fellow travelers.

 

If I can't buy into what's presented me and act accordingly then I can choose not to participate.

 

I can act jerky, immature, and rude in public, but I try real hard not to do so.

So please don't rain on my parade either.

GN

[RevNeal]

As I said previously, my husband does not own a suit or a tux, but does own a sportscoat. I said that he would wear the sportscoat and slacks and a nice shirt.

 

You are correct, and I beg your forgiveness on that point. So often we get some of the strangest claims and arguments here regarding why one doesn't have to abide by the rules that the particulars of any given circumstance blur with others.

 

Regarding the nice shirt ... is it so difficult to add a tie? As described above, your husband will be perfectly fine on informal night; but to conform to the dress code on formal night he really needs to have a tie on.

 

I did not say he would wear shorts and flip flops.

 

You didn't say that, correct. I was pushing the justification adduced for not abiding by the dress code to an absurd extreme in order to make a point. If the reason for not abiding by the dress code is cited as being this is a "surfing cruise" with many surfers aboard (pun intended), then why NOT go to such an extreme?

 

I thought your earlier post regarding one man's embarrassment was meant with the best of intentions; however this one is simply shocking.

 

Thank you. You are correct on BOTH counts. I am truly concerned about people, like the fellow described in that earlier post, who was singled out and embarrassed before his table mates due to his stubborn refusal to conform to a simple dress code. Since he was ABLE to conform -- he had a jacket and tie to put on -- no reason other than intransigence exists for his not conforming. This is illustrated by his going so far as to argue with the Matre'D about the situation. I feel for someone like that ... what causes that kind of behavior? Sometimes it's an unwillingness to accept that we are not always "in charge" or "the boss," even though we think we should be. I am convinced that it is, sometimes, just such an attitude that result in this kind of behavior that will not conform. Sadly, if such is the case, then reasonable concern and gentle suggestion simply won't do. Sometimes being absurd or hyperbolic will get through when reason will not. Sometimes Jeff Spicoli will listen to Jonathan Swift, while Mr. Hand gets ignored. :)

 

Dear RevNeal, I am sure you can gather that we do not attend the symphony or the opera. And, as I said previously, this will be my husband's first cruise...he is not a perpetual cruiser who does not dress for dinner...for all I know, maybe he will.

 

Actually, I had no idea that you don't attend the symphony or the opera. I know lots of people who do, and lots of people who don't ... stereotypes don't often enter into such a venue. At least, that's my experience here in Texas. ;)

 

I will tell him to wear what he wants though and we will dine accordingly.

 

Can I make a gentle suggestion? Have him read the "Know Before You Go" booklet, when it arrives with your travel documentation from the cruise line. It will contain the dress code, as well as many other things that he will find very interesting and helpful. I've read it a dozen times myself, and I still read it when it comes with my docs before every cruise ... and NOT just to see if anything has changed. No ... I just like reading it. Yes, I'm addicted to cruising! :D Warning. When this cruise is over, your husband may be too!

 

And wouldn't it be nice if everyone had the same dress attire? Then we could all be the same.

 

Goodness gracious NO! If we were all the very same this world would be a very WEIRD place indeed. It's already WEIRD enough. And, if we all had the same dress attire ... well ... only one person could be dressed up at a time!!!!!! :D

 

Have a GREAT cruise.

[Krazy Kruizers]

For what it's worth. Both of us had to dress for work - DH either in a suit or dress pants and jacket and tie. I always wore a dress - no slacks here!!

 

We had to attend many functions while we were working where DH wore a tuxedo and I wore a long gown.

 

So it does not bother us to have to "dress up" for dinner and/or any other occassion.

 

Guess we belong to the "old school".

[samm]

TO me if you did not want to be judged then you should not have posted this thread on a HAL board:D . What you should jave done is not posted this thread and just showed up dressed as you wanted!!:confused:

If you are looking for approval of what you are going to wear it is not going to happen here. If you don't want any part of formal nights either cruise on another line. or have dinner in your cabin and hang out in your cabin on formal nights because if you look at the book the dress code is for ALL public areas on the ship for the ENTIRE NIGHT

 

Not trying to cause any more waves, I have my formal/casual wear. Lets say I chose to go to the Lido (is that the casual dining area? first time cruiser here) on a formal evening and I wear a casual outfit. Are you saying I cannot attend a show or go the the bars and whatnot because I'm wearing casual and you're in your formal wear? Just a question, peace:)

[Krazy Kruizers]

Just one more reason why we prefer a table for 2. We would be very unhappy if our table mates came to the table on formal not wearing either a tuxedo or suite (with tie) and long gown or fancy dress.

[kingclick]

Let's say that you step into the dining room and sit down. There in front of you is a well dressed man. His soup arrives and he lifts the bowl to his mouth and begins to suck it down. A bit dribbles down each side of his face. He doesn't wipe it off. Then, his dinner arrives. And everyone digs in. His meal is salmon with mashed potatoes. Instead of using the proper utensils...he pushes his face down in the plate and begins to eat. Shoving food into his mouth from both sides with his fingers. He comes back up and has bit of pink sticking from his nose.

 

Now are his actions and appearance no one elses business? Should someone ask him to leave? On what grounds should they do so?

 

The key here is manners and being polite. It's impolite to eat with your face in your bowl or plate. And it's ALSO just as impolite to attend a gathering and ignore the dress code.

 

Hopefully that can help people understand better.

[FlorenceItaly]

Let's say that you step into the dining room and sit down. There in front of you is a well dressed man. His soup arrives and he lifts the bowl to his mouth and begins to suck it down. A bit dribbles down each side of his face. He doesn't wipe it off. Then, his dinner arrives. And everyone digs in. His meal is salmon with mashed potatoes. Instead of using the proper utensils...he pushes his face down in the plate and begins to eat. Shoving food into his mouth from both sides with his fingers. He comes back up and has bit of pink sticking from his nose.

 

Okay, come on, now....you are comparing this situation to not wearing a sports coat. I don't think so.

 

Marie

[lougee1043]

. And wouldn't it be nice if everyone had the same dress attire? Then we could all be the same.

 

it certainly would- and if your husband followed the dress code then we would all be the same

[bonstersd]

RevNeal,

 

Thank you. I too hope my husband will enjoy cruising....I sure love cruising and I can't wait for him to join me instead of my having to cruise only with my girlfriends.

[lougee1043]

I

but on the HAL boards I was hoping to read more threads on:

1. How many tuxes will you be bringing along?

2. Ladies, do you dare wear a gown bought "off the rack"?

 

i rent a tux on board and it comes with 2 shirts so im good for a 7 nite cruise --on longer cruises i just put them in to the laundry

 

not me personallyt but i think that most clothes that women wear are off the rack rather then custom made

[kingclick]

Okay, come on, now....you are comparing this situation to not wearing a sports coat. I don't think so.

 

Marie

 

Please tell me the difference because I see nothing. BOTH are based upon manners and etiquette. Both are visual in nature. Both are societal rules that are being applied by the general group. I see no difference. So I would be interested in how there is a difference.

 

It's impolite to eat with your face in a bowl and it is impolite to not follow the dress code for the evening.

 

There is ONE difference that I can think of.

 

Usually when someone eats like a slob they just don't know any better. And when someone DEFIANTLY dresses contrary to the evenings dress code, they know better yet are still doing it without consideration of their fellow passengers.

[AlexandNessa]

I know that everyone is different, but I sure do not understand why people get offended when others are dressing differently than they "expect" them to be. Let me wear what I want to wear, and I'll let you wear what you want to wear. When I go to Pinnacle this summer, twice, I will be wearing my polo shirt and dockers.

 

Nowhere, anywhere, does it state that you MUST wear a suit/tuxedo on formal night, although it is expected, it is not required.

 

Just a little rant here on all the attire posts.

 

Go back to your regularly scheduled lives.

 

 

I don't understand this. At all. You sound a lot like my Uncle Rick. I love him dearly, and while I have never cruised with him, my parents have, and I have heard story after story about how he dressed for formal night, and how my parents were embarrassed to be at his table. Fast forward to my wedding. Was I a little nervous on how he would dress? Oh, yes, oh BOY yes. Our wedding was outside, and I can't tell you how many times and in how many ways we relayed our "requested" dress code for the wedding. We also explained that I would still be in a long gown and my DH would be in a tux as would our dads and best man. Despite that, guess how my Uncle Rick showed up to my wedding? Wearing your preferred dockers and a short sleeve polo shirt. Was I glad to have him there at my wedding? You bet. Did I order any of the proofs with him looking way underdressed with everyone else dressed appropriately and looking sharp? I think maybe one wallet sized picture as a token, but he didn't make the album. :(

 

For the record, not only do I wear a long gown on formal nights (and have even had some designed and made for me for just the occasion), but DH always matches his vest and tie in his tux with my dress. We may be "old school cruisers," but in our early 30s, I don't think we're that "old."

[MikeT718]

Not trying to cause any more waves, I have my formal/casual wear. Lets say I chose to go to the Lido (is that the casual dining area? first time cruiser here) on a formal evening and I wear a casual outfit. Are you saying I cannot attend a show or go the the bars and whatnot because I'm wearing casual and you're in your formal wear? Just a question, peace:)

 

As RevNeal says if you read the Know Before You GO book you will see that the dress code for the evening is for the entire evening in all public spaces.. And yes I know people run back to their cabin after their meal and change but it is really not right..I hope this helps

[caviargal]

As RevNeal says if you read the Know Before You GO book you will see that the dress code for the evening is for the entire evening in all public spaces.. And yes I know people run back to their cabin after their meal and change but it is really not right..I hope this helps

 

I really never understood those that changed after dinner. I always am perfectly comfortable in my formal wear - or evening attire in general - and am happy to enjoy the evening atmosphere aboard ship. It is just so festive!

 

I, too, am an "old school" cruiser.

[WillK]

Just as the swallows return each spring to San Juan Capistrano, so does the dress code subject return to the board....