Missed port - what is the OBC?

[itf]

I am in an argument with my travel insurance who are unwilling to pay out on my claim for a missed port on the Breakaway because I received "compensation" from the cruise line.

That compensation (significantly less than they would pay out) was $15 - which I believe was the port taxes, and therefore no kind of compensation, just a refund. Can someone clarify if this is the case?

[G-DawgMN]

You are correct, missed ports get refunded port taxes/fees. NCL normally does not compensate for missing a port.

 

[Dar & Bob]

6 minutes ago, KSSS2013 said:

You are correct, missed ports get refunded port taxes/fees. NCL normally does not compensate for missing a port.

 

Not to mention any other cruise line  Refunding port charges is the standard and in your cruise contract but we don't read those do we?  🙂

 

[itf]

3 minutes ago, Dar & Bob said:

Not to mention any other cruise line  Refunding port charges is the standard and in your cruise contract but we don't read those do we?  🙂

 

 

I paid extra for cruise cover (allianz) which apparently wasn't worth the paper it was written on as they are excluding on Q1/2 . They are saying the $15 was "compensation". I disagree.

Section Q1 - Missed port What you are covered for under Section Q1 We will pay up to the amount shown in the table of benefits if your scheduled port visit is cancelled due to adverse weather or timetable restrictions. Please note: You must get written confirmation from your carrier or tour operator confirming your scheduled port visit was cancelled and the reason for the cancellation.

 

What you are not covered for under Section Q1

 

1. Any claim arising from your ship’s failure to put people ashore due to the mechanical or operational failure of the ships tender (or any other boat used to transport passengers to shore).

 

2. Any claim where a monetary amount, including but not limited to on board credit or other compensation, has been offered to you by the ship or tour operator.

 

3. Any claim where you do not have written confirmation from your carrier or tour operator confirming your scheduled port visit was cancelled.

Edited February 14, 2020 by itf

[Dar & Bob]

2 minutes ago, itf said:

 

I paid extra for cruise cover (allianz) which apparently wasn't worth the paper it was written on as they are excluding on Q1/2 . They are saying the $15 was "compensation". I disagree.

Section Q1 - Missed port What you are covered for under Section Q1 We will pay up to the amount shown in the table of benefits if your scheduled port visit is cancelled due to adverse weather or timetable restrictions. Please note: You must get written confirmation from your carrier or tour operator confirming your scheduled port visit was cancelled and the reason for the cancellation.

 

What you are not covered for under Section Q1

 

1. Any claim arising from your ship’s failure to put people ashore due to the mechanical or operational failure of the ships tender (or any other boat used to transport passengers to shore).

 

2. Any claim where a monetary amount, including but not limited to on board credit or other compensation, has been offered to you by the ship or tour operator.

 

3. Any claim where you do not have written confirmation from your carrier or tour operator confirming your scheduled port visit was cancelled.

It says you will be compensated "up to" the amount in the schedule.  Insurance puts you in the same position monetarily - so what are you out of pocket for missing the port?  If you had an excursion that was non refundable I would agree they should reimburse you for that.  Otherwise, what are you out?

 

[itf]

3 minutes ago, Dar & Bob said:

It says you will be compensated "up to" the amount in the schedule.  Insurance puts you in the same position monetarily - so what are you out of pocket for missing the port?  If you had an excursion that was non refundable I would agree they should reimburse you for that.  Otherwise, what are you out?

 

Well you're out the experience of visiting the port! I am specifically insured for £100 per person for each missed port. It was a feature of the cruise insurance.

If I'm covered for it - and paid the highest possible premium for that cover - then they should pay.

 

Edited February 14, 2020 by itf

[Dar & Bob]

1 minute ago, itf said:

Well you're out the experience of visiting the port! I am specifically insured for £100 per person for each missed port. It was a feature of the cruise insurance.

Again you were insured "up to" £100 per person,  but with insurance you are compensated for the amount you are out monetarily.  

 

[itf]

1 minute ago, Dar & Bob said:

Again you were insured "up to" £100 per person,  but with insurance you are compensated for the amount you are out monetarily.  

 

No - as I've posted above in the screenshot - I am specifically and explicitly insured against missed ports and a monetary value is assigned to that by them - not me - and I paid a premium for that extended cover.

Edited February 14, 2020 by itf

[Dar & Bob]

34 minutes ago, itf said:

No - as I've posted above in the screenshot - I am specifically and explicitly insured against missed ports and a monetary value is assigned to that by them - not me - and I paid a premium for that extended cover.

Again you don't have a loss and that is what you insure against.  In the contract there is probably also a list of definitions of what is a covered claim.  Don't blame Allianz 

[Homosassa]

41 minutes ago, itf said:

Well you're out the experience of visiting the port! I am specifically insured for £100 per person for each missed port. It was a feature of the cruise insurance.

If I'm covered for it - and paid the highest possible premium for that cover - then they should pay.

 

The experience of missing a port is an intangible. It is something that varies from person to person and doesn't have the same worth to all. 

 

The devil is in the fine print of the insurance policy and the company obviously feels that the return of port fees covers any loss you had . 

[roger001]

Missed ports are just a fact of life with cruising.  It's even in the contract.  The cruise line will refund any money you might have been charged to port there, but don't give extra just because you missed that port.  Again, in the contract.  However, looks like you insurance company might have been implying a small bonus if their minimum offered is more than what you were already refunded.  

[itf]

21 minutes ago, roger001 said:

Missed ports are just a fact of life with cruising.  It's even in the contract.  The cruise line will refund any money you might have been charged to port there, but don't give extra just because you missed that port.  Again, in the contract.  However, looks like you insurance company might have been implying a small bonus if their minimum offered is more than what you were already refunded.  

 

100% and we've done 15 cruises and missed 2 ports, so my hit rate isn't bad. And last time we got an alternate port (and I wouldn't even bother claiming in that scenario) - the fact remains they explicitly sell missed port cover, I purchased it and paid a premium for it - but it's impossible to claim, as nobody on any NCL cruise can ever meet the requirements for the claim based on the small print if they consider the $15 port fee refund to be "compensation" -  which it isn't, it's a refund. 

That's all I need from this post - is the $15 explicitly a refund of the port taxes - I believe it is. If I can prove this, they'll pay out. If I can't, they deem it "compensation" even though NCL have confirmed to them in writing that no compensation is offered for a missed port.

Edited February 14, 2020 by itf

[KeithJenner]

This is a big problem with insurance. You are very often insured "up to" an amount, as in this case. Zero fits in with that definition.

[itf]

2 minutes ago, KeithJenner said:

This is a big problem with insurance. You are very often insured "up to" an amount, as in this case. Zero fits in with that definition.

 

No it's £100 per port *up to £1000* if we'd missed 10 ports. It isn't up to £100 per port, or there would be no reason to ever purchase the higher level of cover.

They've confirmed all this - the only argument we have is whether that $15 was a refund or compensation. If I can prove it's a refund of port tax, they pay. If I can't, they class it as "compensation" and don't.

Edited February 14, 2020 by itf

[Cruiser_1977]

@itf You should probably prepare yourself that it won't be $100. As others have pointed out "up to" begins at $0 and means no more than $100/per port. Hence, you could miss 10 ports and still receive $0.

 

 

 

Edited February 14, 2020 by JennyB1977

[itf]

Just now, JennyB1977 said:

@itf You should probably prepare yourself that it won't be $100. As others have pointed out "up to" begins at $0 and means no more than $100.

 

 

 

As I've clarified above there's no argument about the £100 figure. The only argument is what the $15 is. If it's "compensation" I get nothing at all. If it's a refund of port taxes, I get the £100.

[KeithJenner]

Just now, itf said:

 

No it's £100 per port *up to £1000* if we'd missed 10 ports. 

I disagree. It basically says.

 

Sum insured up to £100 per port, up to £1,000

 

So each port missed pays up to £100 with a maximum total of £1,000.

[KeithJenner]

1 minute ago, itf said:

As I've clarified above there's no argument about the £100 figure. The only argument is what the $15 is. If it's "compensation" I get nothing at all. If it's a refund of port taxes, I get the £100.

There is a very big argument about the £100 figure, and the fact that the insurance company aren't paying you £100 suggests that they disagree with you on this.

Edited February 14, 2020 by KeithJenner

[Zippeedee]

A missed port is compensable if the coverage is included. They should subtract the $15 and pay you the difference. I would escalate this to show them what you received was simply a refund of an amount you had already paid as part of your cruise fare.

 

When NCL dropped two ports last April I only had to submit the letter from NCL and a claim form and Nationwide Luxury Cruise sent me a check for $1250, the amount listed in the policy.  

 

Apparently there have been too many changes lately, as my current policy pays $750 and my next one is only $500.  

[itf]

1 minute ago, KeithJenner said:

There is a very big argument about the £100 figure, and the fact that the insurance company aren't paying you £100 suggests that they disagree with you on this.

 

I have in writing from the insurer as part of our correspondence that the £100 per person IS the figure to be paid. This is a meaningless rabbit hole that you are insisting on going down - it's not even a point of argument between myself and the insurer. The compensation is clear to both parties and neither is arguing!

Literally the only argument I have between the insurer paying or not is what the $15 on my statement is! 

[KeithJenner]

2 minutes ago, itf said:

 

I have in writing from the insurer as part of our correspondence that the £100 per person IS the figure to be paid. This is a meaningless rabbit hole that you are insisting on going down - it's not even a point of argument between myself and the insurer. The compensation is clear to both parties and neither is arguing!

Literally the only argument I have between the insurer paying or not is what the $15 on my statement is! 

Can we just clarify please.

 

From what you were originally saying, my understanding was that the insurance company were not paying you anything because you got the $15 from NCL.

 

Now, it sounds like they are saying you can get the £100, but they want to deduct the $15.

 

If it is the latter, then I think they are probably correct to deduct the $15. If the former then that would suggest that my reading of the terms is correct.

[itf]

4 minutes ago, KeithJenner said:

Can we just clarify please.

 

From what you were originally saying, my understanding was that the insurance company were not paying you anything because you got the $15 from NCL.

 

Now, it sounds like they are saying you can get the £100, but they want to deduct the $15.

 

If it is the latter, then I think they are probably correct to deduct the $15. If the former then that would suggest that my reading of the terms is correct.

 

The former - they won't pay anything at all because they deem the $15 to be "compensation" rather than a refund of port taxes. NCL provided a letter saying no compensation was offered nor would it be, but $15 refundable credit was added to my account. If this is simply a refund of port taxes, then the insurer will pay. Which is why I asked the question of what exactly the $15 on the shipboard account *IS* - is it a refund of the port taxes, in which case I should be paid. Or is it something else - in which case the insurance can literally never pay out because you will always hit the exclusion terms.

I would have been entirely happy with scenario 2.

Edited February 14, 2020 by itf

[smplybcause]

There is insurance that pays you a flat amount for a missed port in the US. It sounds like the OP has a UK version of it. And no, it's not "we'll pay for any costs of a missed port" as regular old travel insurance covers that instance, it's just payment for missing a port. Not every state has that - notably Florida does not allow that type of insurance (probably because the high portion of residents that cruise). 

 

I think to prove it insurance would want something saying it's a refund of port fees, but I'm not sure NCL will bother to provide that. 

Edited February 14, 2020 by smplybcause

[itf]

1 minute ago, smplybcause said:

There is insurance that pays you a flat amount for a missed port in the US. It sounds like the OP has a UK version of it. And no, it's not "we'll pay for any costs of a missed port" as regular old travel insurance covers that instance, it's just payment for missing a port. Not every state has that - notably Florida does not allow that type of insurance (probably because the high portion of residents that cruise). 

 

I think to prove it insurance would want something saying it's a refund of port fees, but I'm not sure NCL will bother to provide that. 

Exactly this.

[KeithJenner]

3 minutes ago, itf said:

 

The former - they won't pay anything at all because they deem the $15 to be "compensation" rather than a refund of port taxes. NCL provided a letter saying no compensation was offered nor would it be, but $15 refundable credit was added to my account. If this is simply a refund of port taxes, then the insurer will pay. Which is why I asked the question of what exactly the $15 on the shipboard account *IS* - is it a refund of the port taxes, in which case I should be paid. Or is it something else - in which case the insurance can literally never pay out because you will always hit the exclusion terms.

I would have been entirely happy with scenario 2.

OK, thanks.

 

In that case, I don't think that I was going down a meaningless rabbit hole. I believe that the insurance companies terms are that they will pay up to £100, but they see the $15, even if it was return of port fees, as compensation, and I agree with them.

 

I'm not trying to be difficult or start unnecessary arguments, but from what I understand here I don't think that they are likely to see it your way.