Ruby Princess police investigation

[Aus Traveller]

41 minutes ago, Pushka said:

I think you missed the whole point. You asked me to clarify how many overseas passengers were on board. I posted an article that referenced that number from the abc Australian news site. Now you've gone on a bender about the stories in the article. 

I agree with the number of overseas passengers that you estimated (or quoted). We were on the smaller ship, the Sea Princess two weeks earlier to NZ. There were in excess of 400 passengers from USA and a similar number from the UK, according to something the CD said in the theatre one night. I was surprised at the high numbers.

[OzKiwiJJ]

NZ cruises are very, very popular with overseas tourists. On one Celebrity cruise we did we hardly heard an Aussie or Kiwi accent in the bars, they were all Brits or Americans.

[Cruisegroover]

6 minutes ago, OzKiwiJJ said:

NZ cruises are very, very popular with overseas tourists. On one Celebrity cruise we did we hardly heard an Aussie or Kiwi accent in the bars, they were all Brits or Americans.

One Celebrity Solstice cruise I did to the islands had so many Germans onboard they made announcements in both English and German.

[The_Big_M]

4 hours ago, Aus Traveller said:

Entertainers probably changed over during the Ruby Princess cruise, but I doubt very much that new passengers joined part way through the itinerary. In my experience, that doesn't happen on a Princess NZ cruise.

 

Likely true, but they use a standard form, not customise it for every cruise. And worse still, they shouldn't make assumptions, so still the question should be asked.

[DiamondFour]

2 hours ago, Pushka said:

I think you missed the whole point. You asked me to clarify how many overseas passengers were on board. I posted an article that referenced that number from the abc Australian news site. Now you've gone on a bender about the stories in the article. 

The article was full of lies. The authorities in Australia definitely knew how many foreign passengers were on the Ruby Princess.

[BRANDEE]

20 minutes ago, OzKiwiJJ said:

I agree. Also any comments about rushed (or not) disembarkation are subjective. The normal disembarkation process is efficient. It has to be as, under normal circumstances, there would be a new load of passengers waiting to embark in a few hours. Efficient could be seen as rushed by newbies.

 

Also it depends on the mood and circumstances of each passenger. Are they champing at the bit to get to the airport, or to their hotel, or home to see their furbabies? Do they have a tour booked - was that even still possible? Certainly the 14 day self-isolation requirement would have changed things. Or are they squeezing every last minute out of their cruise, don't want to disembark, and so they feel they are being rushed off the ship. Or are they like us - replete from a hearty breakfast in the MDR, knowing there are more cruises booked and it's only a short Uber ride home, we amble off once our group is called - no hurry, no worry!

 

I've seen statements saying all passengers were off the ship by 11am - "really? That late?" is my reaction to that. Usually the ships are cleared by 10am.

 

Also every cruise terminal is different. When we disembarked from Ruby in December at the OPT it was extremely efficient. The best to date of the eight cruises we have done that disembarked there. 

 

The only odd note appears to be the airport transfer situation. Were they rushing them through because a lot of people had requested transfers and they needed to move the buses through quickly - the OPT has very little parking space for buses, it's a real problem. Or was it an attempt to get people away from the ship quickly as some people have implied, and if so at whose instigation?

 

There are too many factors, either subjective or unknown.

 

I am not a newbie at cruising, 30 +, but my opinion regarding disembarkation is constantly commented on by a few as..I don't know what I experienced.  And yes, every experience is subjective, but we were rushed out of the cruise terminal...and it was quite noticeable. 

 

The feeling, verbally expressed by other passengers on the bus to the airport with me was..what's the rush..where is the health ministry to check us, why are we being shoved on the bus..wow ..get off the ship and the hell out of our country!. Exact words of fellow bus mates..

 

Listening to Ms Ressler's testimony on Tuesday..at one point when the Commissioner ask her why they let everyone off before the covid swabs were processed..she almost said it herself..Get them out and home..(I'm paraphrasing)

 

Yesterday's testimony from the Carnival port agent said the passengers disembarked from 7:30 to 10:30.  Not too quick , but, there was an air of urgency to move people out of the terminal ..what was the rush..for the next group of passengers?? And I am use to quick disembarkations due to global entry for US cruise ports.

 

I am sure other passengers had a different experience or feeling regarding disembarkation..as others have said..subjective..just like the food. But I would never tell someone ..something must be wrong with your tastebuds..everyone  else I spoke to said the food was delicious .

 

Obviously, the NSW Health has "reprehensible shortcomings"..to quote Mr. Walker. Their decision on March 19th..was deadly for Australians citizens, as well as all the international passengers who traveled home..thinking they were ok.. but instead.. infected their families and friends. Not all international passengers got a phone call and text early enough to be warned..  NSW Health still has made no attempt to follow up on what happened to the "others" since week 1 . Unless, you are one of the few who went to the media. Did only 2 "others" die?  A total lack of caring, or at least trying to control the mess they made internationally.  But then..NSW Health would have to admit they acted irresponsibly or they were acting in conspiracy with others. And I do not mean Princess.

 

 

[OzKiwiJJ]

Certainly the "shoved on the bus" bit seems a bit strange and I wonder if it will get a mention in the hearing. 

 

I'm not doubting your word, in fact it is good to get the perspective of a regular cruiser but what exactly gave you the impression that there was "an air of urgency to get people out of the terminal"? I know from experience at that terminal that they do encourage people to collect their bags and keep on moving out fairly quickly. It's not a huge space and if there are any delays the queues can build up very quickly, as I saw on a past cruise.

 

BTW approximately what time did you disembark? 

 

It will be interesting to hear if the Australian Border Force had a hand in any of the decisions re disembarking. It will be even more "interesting" if no mention is made of them at all. 

[Pushka]

1 hour ago, DiamondFour said:

The article was full of lies. The authorities in Australia definitely knew how many foreign passengers were on the Ruby Princess.

Again. I didn't post that for the article but merely as a reference point for the number of overseas passengers. Which was the question you originally asked. 
 

And again. Statistics for Australia infections and deaths only count those infections and deaths that occurred on Australian soil. Period. It has nothing to do with who knew what about whom was onboard. If the overseas passengers had stayed in Australia and then tested positive here they would have been counted. Just as they were with Artania. 

Edited May 7, 2020 by Pushka

[Aus Traveller]

20 minutes ago, Pushka said:

Again. I didn't post that for the article but merely as a reference point for the number of overseas passengers. Which was the question you originally asked. 
 

And again. Statistics for Australia infections and deaths only count those infections and deaths that occurred on Australian soil. Period. It has nothing to do with who knew what about whom was onboard. If the overseas passengers had stayed in Australia and then tested positive here they would have been counted. Just as they were with Artania. 

I understood you to be saying that these overseas passengers were not counted in the total number of infections, not that the Australian authorities did not know that they were on the ship at all.

[BRANDEE]

7 minutes ago, OzKiwiJJ said:

Certainly the "shoved on the bus" bit seems a bit strange and I wonder if it will get a mention in the hearing. 

 

I'm not doubting your word, in fact it is good to get the perspective of a regular cruiser but what exactly gave you the impression that there was "an air of urgency to get people out of the terminal"? I know from experience at that terminal that they do encourage people to collect their bags and keep on moving out fairly quickly. It's not a huge space and if there are any delays the queues can build up very quickly, as I saw on a past cruise.

 

BTW approximately what time did you disembark? 

 

It will be interesting to hear if the Australian Border Force had a hand in any of the decisions re disembarking. It will be even more "interesting" if no mention is made of them at all. 

We disembarked around 9:20. 

 

Once in the terminal, there was a feverish pace going on.  You would have thought the agents would be relaxed that no new passengers were coming to check in.. so a calmer pace?  But just a feeling of hurry up there is a tornado on the way so move!!!  

 

I have dealt with grim looking immigration/border agents (St Petersburg, Russia), but not a smile..I asked my husband ..what do you think is wrong?  We tried to step aside once to have my brother catch up, but got reprimanded..just little things and a tense feeling.  On one line, everyone thought we were getting our temperature taken, but it was to collect our declaration paper.  Many were surprised..we were all waiting to be checked. We stepped up to immigration desk..asked if I had a visa, I said yes and done.

 

When we were about 15 feet out of the glass door to the terminal, a man put his hands on my luggage (I was still wheeling it) and he asked domestic or international? It reminded me of a time in the Roma Train Terminal when a gypsy tried to grab my luggage. Lol. Our luggage was put under the bus according to air carrier and we were told to get on the bus.   We were getting out our transfers and the guy said..international..okay don't need anything..just get on the bus..  Once on the bus, you had to see everyone's faces...bewildered! 

 

I am very interested to hear the rest of the inquiry.  BTW  , some passengers from the cruise before just got contacted today from the police via e mail.   Also, Princess decided to change their options for refund for this cruise last week.  It is now 100% refund..think a lot were talking about a law suit.  Sounded like Tuesday's testimony by Ms Ressler, cleared Princess of having covid on board when Mar 8 embarked. That is what I read some passengers were accusing Princess of hiding. If that was true..I would sue too.  

 

 

[By The Bay]

1 hour ago, OzKiwiJJ said:

 

It will be interesting to hear if the Australian Border Force had a hand in any of the decisions re disembarking. It will be even more "interesting" if no mention is made of them at all. 

 

From what I saw on the reporting of the Senate  hearings when asking the Border Force person, I got the impression they would not be co-operating. See post 563

[OzKiwiJJ]

5 minutes ago, By The Bay said:

From what I saw on the reporting of the Senate  hearings when asking the Border Force person, I got the impression they would not be co-operating. See post 563

I didn't expect them to co-operate!!! 🤣

[OzKiwiJJ]

47 minutes ago, BRANDEE said:

We disembarked around 9:20. 

 

Once in the terminal, there was a feverish pace going on.  You would have thought the agents would be relaxed that no new passengers were coming to check in.. so a calmer pace?  But just a feeling of hurry up there is a tornado on the way so move!!!  

 

I have dealt with grim looking immigration/border agents (St Petersburg, Russia), but not a smile..I asked my husband ..what do you think is wrong?  We tried to step aside once to have my brother catch up, but got reprimanded..just little things and a tense feeling.  On one line, everyone thought we were getting our temperature taken, but it was to collect our declaration paper.  Many were surprised..we were all waiting to be checked. We stepped up to immigration desk..asked if I had a visa, I said yes and done.

 

When we were about 15 feet out of the glass door to the terminal, a man put his hands on my luggage (I was still wheeling it) and he asked domestic or international? It reminded me of a time in the Roma Train Terminal when a gypsy tried to grab my luggage. Lol. Our luggage was put under the bus according to air carrier and we were told to get on the bus.   We were getting out our transfers and the guy said..international..okay don't need anything..just get on the bus..  Once on the bus, you had to see everyone's faces...bewildered! 

 

I am very interested to hear the rest of the inquiry.  BTW  , some passengers from the cruise before just got contacted today from the police via e mail.   Also, Princess decided to change their options for refund for this cruise last week.  It is now 100% refund..think a lot were talking about a law suit.  Sounded like Tuesday's testimony by Ms Ressler, cleared Princess of having covid on board when Mar 8 embarked. That is what I read some passengers were accusing Princess of hiding. If that was true..I would sue too.  

 

 

Thanks, BRANDEE. That's about the time we usually disembark. It does sound like it was even more chaotic than usual. The immigration guys are usually quite friendly although occasionally you strike one that obviously got out of bed the wrong side that morning.

 

Yes, definitely very strange indeed. 

 

There is a particularly annoying law firm here that has been trying to screw Princess for some time now, without much luck though. They are very proactive in suggesting people sue.

Edited May 7, 2020 by OzKiwiJJ

[Aus Traveller]

58 minutes ago, BRANDEE said:

Sounded like Tuesday's testimony by Ms Ressler, cleared Princess of having covid on board when Mar 8 embarked. That is what I read some passengers were accusing Princess of hiding. If that was true..I would sue too.  

 

There has been no evidence that COVID was on board the ship prior to 8th March and no passengers have come forward, saying they tested positive or that someone else on board that previous cruise tested positive.

[BRANDEE]

We have quite a few unscrupulous law firms that advertise constantly on tv  looking to convince people to sue..sue..sue.. here in good old USA.

 

I am a member of a group of passengers from mar 8th sailing and many of us have been contacted by news stations (7 & 9) to be interviewed.  That is where they got the video of the last night Baked Alaska Parade and called it a party with sick crew and passengers.  Amazing how things get turned around to be sensationalized. We actually did have a party the last night but it was in the atrium.

[Aus Traveller]

15 minutes ago, OzKiwiJJ said:

 

There is a particularly annoying law firm here that has been trying to screw Princess for some time now, without much luck though. They are very proactive in suggesting people sue.

The main law firm that goes after this type of business in Australia actually appeals to investors to fund the law suit. Then they 'go public' to get people to join the class action. There is a fair likelihood that there will be no big payout, but sometimes the defendant will pay just to make the case go away and not attract more negative publicity. If there is a settlement or an award from a Court, the lawyers get their big bight first, then the investors get their really big bight. It is really big because this type of legal action is risky and it is possible they will get nothing. The little bit left over is divided among the litigants.

[Aus Traveller]

1 minute ago, BRANDEE said:

We have quite a few unscrupulous law firms that advertise constantly on tv  looking to convince people to sue..sue..sue.. here in good old USA.

 

I am a member of a group of passengers from mar 8th sailing and many of us have been contacted by news stations (7 & 9) to be interviewed.  That is where they got the video of the last night Baked Alaska Parade and called it a party with sick crew and passengers.  Amazing how things get turned around to be sensationalized. We actually did have a party the last night but it was in the atrium.

I noticed in a news item yesterday, that the Baked Alaska Parade was called "a song and dance routine by the waiters and kitchen staff!!"

[BRANDEE]

6 minutes ago, Aus Traveller said:

There has been no evidence that COVID was on board the ship prior to 8th March and no passengers have come forward, saying they tested positive or that someone else on board that previous cruise tested positive.

I know that..but there is a law firm in Australia that has passengers suing Princess for hiding the fact that there was covid on the previous sailing. What I said is facts from Tuesday's hearing should prove that theory wrong.

[OzKiwiJJ]

8 minutes ago, BRANDEE said:

 

I am a member of a group of passengers from mar 8th sailing and many of us have been contacted by news stations (7 & 9) to be interviewed.  That is where they got the video of the last night Baked Alaska Parade and called it a party with sick crew and passengers.  Amazing how things get turned around to be sensationalized. We actually did have a party the last night but it was in the atrium.

I reckon I had steam coming out of my ears about that little bit of sensationalism! I went to their FB site and blasted them. 

[Aus Traveller]

1 minute ago, BRANDEE said:

I know that..but there is a law firm in Australia that has passengers suing Princess for hiding the fact that there was covid on the previous sailing. What I said is facts from Tuesday's hearing should prove that theory wrong.

That is how ridiculous some legal claims can be. The action you mention would stir people up from that previous cruise and convince them that there was COVID on board - "otherwise why would Sla... and Gord... say there was". I can just imagine it. Some passengers from that cruise could become convinced there was COVID and that it was hidden, but the lawsuit would go nowhere because the law firm would not be able to produce any evidence. Of course, they might not plan on going to trial, just try to get Princess to settle for millions to make the lawsuit go away. That would be money for nothing: they wouldn't even have to do much work.

[The_Big_M]

And we wondered why the Commissioner was so aggressive towards cruise ships, and keen to deflect blame from the Government/Dept of Health. Right at the same time...

 

https://www.smh.com.au/politics/nsw/nsw-police-chief-mick-fuller-gets-a-big-pay-day-20200508-p54r4k.html

[BRANDEE]

2 hours ago, The_Big_M said:

And we wondered why the Commissioner was so aggressive towards cruise ships, and keen to deflect blame from the Government/Dept of Health. Right at the same time...

 

https://www.smh.com.au/politics/nsw/nsw-police-chief-mick-fuller-gets-a-big-pay-day-20200508-p54r4k.html

 

Wow...Payola is also used in the US government, but at least not so obvious..lol  (Until trump)  I have to admit the word commissioner is used to describe a lot of people in this case.  Commissioner Walker and Commissioner Fuller..was confused at first.

[Porky55]

5 hours ago, BRANDEE said:

Commissioner Walker and Commissioner Fuller..was confused at first.

haha bit like you BRANDEE it gets confusing for us too.
Fuller is the NSW Police Commissioner (every State has one - can you believe it 😳)

Commissioner Walker is a Leading Barrister (Top Lawyer) who has been Commissioned by NSW Government to head the investigation. Hence he is now the investigations’ Commissioner. Supposedly he will be unbiased, unrelated to the ship or State Govt, and just look at “the facts” - this has to be done without using any “hindsight” - which I thought was a particularly relevant ruling, (seeing this is what most of us love doing on here 😉)

 

Note: finally got our email for the Questionnaire from NSW Police, why bother, really!! Have you thought about doing a personal submission, there is a tab on the page with the hearings? This is where I submitted our information regarding our experience on the end 7th/8th March cruise.
Rose

Edited May 8, 2020 by Porky55

[Aus Traveller]

54 minutes ago, Porky55 said:

haha bit like you BRANDEE it gets confusing for us too.
Fuller is the NSW Police Commissioner (every State has one - can you believe it 😳)

Commissioner Walker is a Leading Barrister (Top Lawyer) who has been Commissioned by NSW Government to head the investigation. Hence he is now the investigations’ Commissioner. Supposedly he will be unbiased, unrelated to the ship or State Govt, and just look at “the facts” - this has to be done without using any “hindsight” - which I thought was a particularly relevant ruling, (seeing this is what most of us love doing on here 😉)

 

Note: finally got our email for the Questionnaire from NSW Police, why bother, really!! Have you thought about doing a personal submission, there is a tab on the page with the hearings? This is where I submitted our information regarding our experience on the end 7th/8th March cruise.
Rose

I wonder why the Police investigation has extended to the 24th Feb-8th March cruise when there was no COVID. If anything this would demonstrate the difference in handling by the NSW Health Department.

[DiamondFour]

17 minutes ago, Aus Traveller said:

I wonder why the Police investigation has extended to the 24th Feb-8th March cruise when there was no COVID. If anything this would demonstrate the difference in handling by the NSW Health Department.

Several reasons.

 

First the police will be inundated with rumours and hearsay and all the fake stories you hear on cruise ships like an overflowing morgue, punch-ups in the laundry, the elderly couple on a free cruise for slipping over on a flower petal, the late night sexual romps in the Jacuzzi, the unmarried couple who had a sordid affair in the ships lifeboats, and the list goes on...

 

Second the police clearly have no grasp on what cruising is like and have nothing to compare it to and are at the risk of embarrassing themselves in a spectacular public way. Examples like as we have seen if someone is seasick and vomits then the entire area will be roped off to clean it and the precautions the cruise lines take. People will mistake cleaning at 3am for a secret cover up job. Then there is also the police lie about the chef being responsible. Obviously they do not know how many starving passengers go on these ships and overeat themselves into coming off the ship ten kilograms heavier than they went on.

 

My guess is that the police have found nothing incriminating on Princess. They are being inundated with rumours and stories and cannot separate fact from fiction, the costs for this investigation will blow out immensely with overseas guests needing face to face interview.

 

The only joy in this police investigation is that it will be doing their heads in and confusing the hell out of them.