SS Future Re-Open Plan: Timing, Testing Needs??!!

[Randyk47]

I think maybe there has been some misunderstanding and misuse of post-vaccination data.  Yes, people have died after getting vaccination, by the way pretty equally divided between Moderna and Pfizer, but no discernible connection between and vaccines and cause of the deaths.  https://www.newsweek.com/covid-vaccine-deaths-cause-pfizer-moderna-fact-check-966-died-1574447

[Stumblefoot]

7 hours ago, Tothesunset said:

Do you have a reference source for that figure? 

 

4 hours ago, tosteve1 said:

Reference?

It was a story on the Apple+ News service quoting the US CDC.

[rucrazy]

2 minutes ago, Stumblefoot said:

t was a story on the Apple+ News service quoting the US CDC.

Things that make you go hmmmm. Apple News is the outlet I would want to know the source of the article..otherwise you simply have a person just saying "well that is what I heard" .. I need documentation from a realible news source.... but that just may be me....

 

Joseph

[Tothesunset]

15 minutes ago, rucrazy said:

Things that make you go hmmmm. Apple News is the outlet I would want to know the source of the article..otherwise you simply have a person just saying "well that is what I heard" .. I need documentation from a realible news source.... but that just may be me....

 

Joseph

You are absolutely correct. When there is so much disinformation being touted about Covid, the vaccine, risk etc, you need the info from the horses mouth. 

 

I posit that if 1000 people a day were dying after the vaccine it would be more widely reported. In fact it would be news headline number one the world over. 

[worldtraveller99]

So far all good here in UK! Hoping to get 40+ people vaccinated by April.

[tosteve1]

And 30 million doses of the Moderna vaccine have been given. .003%. At my age I have a 1/125  chance of dying in the next year from any cause! .0003% looks good to me!

[TLCOhio]

26 minutes ago, rucrazy said:

Things that make you go hmmmm. Apple News is the outlet I would want to know the source of the article..otherwise you simply have a person just saying "well that is what I heard" .. I need documentation from a realible news source.... but that just may be me....  Joseph

 

YES agree that the news sources and author backgrounds do matter.  I mostly look at major sources such as the NY Times, Wall Street Journal, Washington Post, London/UK Times, AP newswire, major newspapers from larger cities with experienced staff reporters, etc.  It is also very important to know whether it is a story from their "news" staff . . . versus . . . "analysis" coming from opinion writers, etc.  

 

From FOX News and other media sources yesterday, they had this headline: “Royal Caribbean cancels more cruises through May" with this sub-headline: "Celebrity Cruises, Silversea, Azamara also extend suspensions amid pandemic”

 

Here are some of their news story highlights: “More cruise lines announced this week that they’re canceling trips because of the coronavirus pandemic.  Royal Caribbean is suspending sailings through May 31, with the exception of limited cruises in Singapore, China and Israel.  Two other cruise lines owned by the same parent company as Royal Caribbean – Celebrity and Silversea – are also suspending cruises through May 31, and another brand, Azamara, is suspending trips through June 30.   While U.S. cruises remain paused, Royal Caribbean has been able to resume some voyages overseas. The cruise line’s Quantum of the Seas started sailing three- and four-night round trip 'ocean getaway' trips from Singapore with no stops.  Royal Caribbean’s Odyssey of the Seas is set to start making 'fully vaccinated' cruises from Israel to the Greek Isles and Cyprus starting in May. And the Spectrum of the Seas and Voyager of the Seas are due to start sailing out of China next month. The Royal Caribbean brands aren’t the only cruise lines to cancel voyages in U.S. waters or other parts of the world. Carnival Corp. brands including Holland America Line, Princess Cruises and Seaborn also announced this week that they were canceling more cruises into the summer. Disney Cruise Line has also suspended all departures through May, and some into August.”

 

Full story at:

https://www.foxnews.com/travel/royal-caribbean-cancels-more-cruises-through-may

 

THANKS!  Enjoy!  Terry in Ohio

 

AFRICA?!!?: Fun, interesting visuals, plus travel details from this early 2016 live/blog. At 51,091 views. Featuring Cape Town, South Africa’s coast, Mozambique, Victoria Falls/Zambia and Botswana's famed Okavango Delta.

www.boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=2310337

[TLCOhio]

53 minutes ago, tosteve1 said:

And 30 million doses of the Moderna vaccine have been given. .003%. At my age I have a 1/125  chance of dying in the next year from any cause! .0003% looks good to me!

 

Excellent above comments from our North Carolina neighbor regarding the cold, hard reality that people of all ages, especially those older, pass away each day. Whether they have had the vaccine or not.    It has happened, both before and after Covid.  In some cases, it might be related.  Maybe not.  Assuming connections can be challenging.  Right?

 

From Bloomberg News and MSN this morning, they had this headline: “Two-Thirds of Italians Set For Lockdown as Pandemic Worsens” with these highlights: “The government of Prime Minister Mario Draghi is weighing stringent new restrictions on as many as two-thirds of Italians, with the regions encompassing the country’s largest cities possibly heading into lockdown amid a resurgence in the pandemic.  The tightening would bring Italy full-circle just over a year after it became the first Western country to enter lockdown to stop the spread of the coronavirus. Infections rose to a three-month high this week after the more contagious U.K. strain took hold amid a slow vaccine roll-out.  Draghi’s cabinet was due to meet at 11:30 a.m. on Friday to decide whether to automatically designate regions as high-risk 'red zones' if they have more than 250 weekly cases per 100,000 inhabitants, according to a draft of a new decree seen by Bloomberg. The draft is subject to change.   The new decree would go into effect starting Monday and could effectively send many regions, including those surrounding Milan and Rome, into full lockdown. The restrictions would remain in force until April 6. During the Easter holidays, from April 3-5, all of Italy would be a 'red zone,' except for the few areas at the least risk of contagion, according to the draft. With daily infections reaching a three-month high, Draghi, the former head of the European Central Bank, is seeking to speed up a slack vaccination campaign to counter the pandemic and restart an economy that shrank 8.9% last year.”

 

If Italy continues in some form of a lock-down during the summer, that will slow down the cruise line hopes to re-start and resume some form closer to "normal." Saw that Germany is having some challenges, too.   

 

Full story at:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/two-thirds-of-italians-set-for-lockdown-as-pandemic-worsens/ar-BB1evIez

 

THANKS!  Enjoy!  Terry in Ohio

 

Kotor/Montenegro:  Exciting visual samples, tips, details, etc., for this scenic, historic location. Over 48,158 views.

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1439193

 

[Stumblefoot]

2 hours ago, rucrazy said:

I need documentation from a realible news source...

Joseph, why do you need documentation from a reliable news source when the actual source is the United States Centers for Disease Control?  Seems to me that source is better than any news reporting service, but that's just me. 😉

[Stumblefoot]

1 hour ago, tosteve1 said:

At my age I have a 1/125  chance of dying in the next year from any cause! .0003% looks good to me!

I'm right there with you at 1/129 chance.

[rucrazy]

29 minutes ago, Stumblefoot said:

Joseph, why do you need documentation from a reliable news source 

I've seen Fox news....and I need reliable not hear say.;..I have had my fill of hear.. as a former journalist i must insit on reminding ALL that WORDS MATTER .. Honesty and Integrity are still the shining light on the hill at least as far as I am concerned.  

Honestly,  I would prefer 3 sources.. just to verify.. but maybe that's just me.

 

Joseph

Edited March 12, 2021 by rucrazy

[Tothesunset]

1 hour ago, Stumblefoot said:

Joseph, why do you need documentation from a reliable news source when the actual source is the United States Centers for Disease Control?  Seems to me that source is better than any news reporting service, but that's just me. 😉

No. According to your post you heard the figure on Apple+ reporting a figure from CDC. That is a whole world away from from seeing the original data as presented by an authoritative source. 

 

Too many figures are bandied about which end up being a journalist's misinterpretation or politically massaged or just plain wrong. 

 

I can find nothing from the CDC that reports the figures you've given. 

 

In terms of the oceans of misinformation pounced upon by those wishing to manipulate opinion, it is absolutely critical that original sources rather than reported sources are used as a basis for decisions. 

[auldlassie]

Totally agree with Tothesunset on this. The CDC did not make the claim as stated here and neither has any other reliable or authoritative news source. Just check web browser searches (It is not that difficult) and there is no such data given.

Had it been it would most certainly have made worldwide headlines.  The ease of spread of disinformation is shocking.

 

[TLCOhio]

1 hour ago, Stumblefoot said:

Joseph, why do you need documentation from a reliable news source when the actual source is the United States Centers for Disease Control?  Seems to me that source is better than any news reporting service, but that's just me. 😉

 

As an example, quoting official data from CDC can be good . . . or maybe not so good??!! Why and how?  It depends as to how such data is used and/or the context for that statistical information.  Some, quite frankly, especially in the "news analysis" business (on both sides) will look for numbers to back up their viewpoint/slant.  With Covid, some cite "total numbers" in comparing states, as an example.  While others, more correctly, will only cite data per 100K of population to make any such comparisons.  Then with Covid, there has been wide range of data points for number of cases, hospitalization rates, ICU rates, death rates, vaccines completed, etc., etc.  Also, what time period is being cited?  Past week?  Most recent month?   Past six months?  Past year?  Depending which period and data point you pick, you can SELECTIVELY cite such numbers to make or refute your viewpoint.  

 

Or, as another example, you can compare Florida vs. California as to which state has done a "better" job with Covid.  But, demographically, Florida has a much older population than younger California.  And, there are other population demographic factors that are different and could explain why the data is different (and better?) in comparing these two large, diverse coastal states.  You get the idea?  The official CDC data can be examined and cited in different ways by somewhat honest and well-intentioned people on various sides.  Or, maybe twisted?  

 

From the Wall Street Journal late this morning, they had this headline: “Europe Confronts a Covid-19 Rebound as Vaccine Hopes Recede" with this sub-headline: "Slow vaccinations, outpaced by virus variants, and indecision by EU governments are deepening the continent’s gloom.”

 

Here are some of their added story highlights: “The European Union’s fight against Covid-19 is stuck in midwinter, even as spring and vaccinations spur hope of improvement in the U.S. and U.K.  Contagion is rising again in much of the EU, despite months of restrictions on daily life, as more-virulent virus strains outpace vaccinations. A mood of gloom and frustration is settling on the continent, and governments are caught between their promises of progress and the bleak epidemiological reality.  Virus infections and deaths have been falling rapidly in the U.S. and U.K. since January as inoculations take off among the elderly and other vulnerable groups. In the EU, however, new Covid-19 cases have been rising again since mid-February. U.S. infections and deaths, which were higher on a per-capita basis for most of 2020, have fallen below the bloc’s.  In much of the continent, the spread of the more-aggressive variant first detected in the U.K. is behind the worsening of the pandemic, undoing strenuous efforts to rein in the virus since the fall with an array of restrictions that have brought the bloc’s economic recovery to a standstill.   Governments and public-health experts say only a combination of accelerated vaccinations and gradual reopening can defeat Covid-19’s latest rebound. But the EU’s efforts continue to suffer from its slowness in procuring and approving vaccines, production delays at vaccine makers, and bureaucratic holdups in injecting available doses.”

 

Is this reporting right or wrong as to the current EU situation and challenge?  Here is more from their reporting: "Electoral pressures are holding leaders back from tightening restrictions despite rising infections and hospitalizations.  French President Emmanuel Macron, who is up for reelection next year, has rebuffed calls from public-health experts to impose a third lockdown on the country. Instead he has relied on a nationwide evening curfew and other restrictions while authorities try to accelerate vaccinations. In Germany, which is gearing up for national elections in September, there is little political will to reimpose tougher restrictions, even though infections have begun increasing again since early February. Scientists say the U.K. variant is behind the rise there, too."

 

Full story at:

https://www.wsj.com/articles/europe-confronts-a-covid-19-rebound-as-vaccine-hopes-recede-11615558520

 

THANKS!  Enjoy!  Terry in Ohio

 

Dubrovnik!  Nice visual samples, tips, details, etc., for this super scenic and historic location. Over 47,778 views.    

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1439227

[Stumblefoot]

4 hours ago, rucrazy said:

I've seen Fox news....and I need reliable not hear say.;..I have had my fill of hear.. as a former journalist i must insit on reminding ALL that WORDS MATTER .. Honesty and Integrity are still the shining light on the hill at least as far as I am concerned.  

Honestly,  I would prefer 3 sources.. just to verify.. but maybe that's just me.

 

Joseph

But, Joseph, the source is the CDC.  Sorry, but I don't need to hear the data from any reporting site other than the source itself.

 

3 hours ago, Tothesunset said:

No. According to your post you heard the figure on Apple+ reporting a figure from CDC. That is a whole world away from from seeing the original data as presented by an authoritative source. 

 

Too many figures are bandied about which end up being a journalist's misinterpretation or politically massaged or just plain wrong. 

 

I can find nothing from the CDC that reports the figures you've given. 

 

In terms of the oceans of misinformation pounced upon by those wishing to manipulate opinion, it is absolutely critical that original sources rather than reported sources are used as a basis for decisions. 

Apple+ is an aggregating site.  The figure is from the CDC.  That is all that matters which is THE AUTHORITATIVE source since they control the data, not Apple. It has absolutely nothing to do with a journalist.  Sorry you can't find the data.

 

2 hours ago, auldlassie said:

Totally agree with Tothesunset on this. The CDC did not make the claim as stated here and neither has any other reliable or authoritative news source. Just check web browser searches (It is not that difficult) and there is no such data given.

Currently, 1,637 families or caregivers nationwide have reported vaccine related deaths to the CDC via the Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System according to the CDC.

Edited March 12, 2021 by Stumblefoot

[Ltt13]

Here is the quote from cdc.gov:

Reports of death after COVID-19 vaccination

• FDA requires vaccination providers to report any death after COVID-19 vaccination to VAERS.
• Reports of death to VAERS following vaccination do not necessarily mean the vaccine caused the death.
• CDC follows up on any report of death to request additional information and learn more about what occurred and to determine whether the death was a result of the vaccine or unrelated.
• To date, VAERS has not detected patterns in cause of death that would indicate a safety problem with COVID-19 vaccines.
• CDC, FDA, and other federal partners will continue to monitor the safety of COVID-19 vaccines.

Over 92 million doses of COVID-19 vaccines were administered in the United States from December 14, 2020, through March 8, 2021. During this time, VAERS received 1,637 reports of death (0.0018%) among people who received a COVID-19 vaccine. CDC and FDA physicians review each case report of death as soon as notified and CDC requests medical records to further assess reports. A review of available clinical information including death certificates, autopsy, and medical records revealed no evidence that vaccination contributed to patient deaths. CDC and FDA will continue to investigate reports of adverse events, including deaths, reported to VAERS.

 

Edited March 13, 2021 by Ltt13

[frantic36]

Ltt13 thank you for posting this direct quote. Always good to know exactly what is being referred to.

[Ltt13]

Frantic36 you are welcome. Context is important!

[tosteve1]

3 hours ago, Stumblefoot said:

But, Joseph, the source is the CDC.  Sorry, but I don't need to hear the data from any reporting site other than the source itself.

 

Apple+ is an aggregating site.  The figure is from the CDC.  That is all that matters which is THE AUTHORITATIVE source since they control the data, not Apple. It has absolutely nothing to do with a journalist.  Sorry you can't find the data.

 

Currently, 1,637 families or caregivers nationwide have reported vaccine related deaths to the CDC via the Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System according to the CDC.

Reporting raw numbers without context is not helpful and contributes to vaccine hesitancy and skepticism. 

[Stumblefoot]

1 hour ago, tosteve1 said:

Reporting raw numbers without context is not helpful and contributes to vaccine hesitancy and skepticism. 

No hesitancy here at all.  We look forward to getting vaccinated as soon as allowed.  My post was truthful and should have no bearing on your hypothetical claim.

[rucrazy]

12 hours ago, Ltt13 said:

A review of available clinical information including death certificates, autopsy, and medical records revealed no evidence that vaccination contributed to patient deaths

People are born.. People live ...and People die.. the cycle of life .. that said I believe the above statement is the most important piece of information in the report...

Joseph

[Stumblefoot]

2 hours ago, rucrazy said:

People are born.. People live ...and People die.. the cycle of life .. that said I believe the above statement is the most important piece of information in the report...

Joseph

Well, to be honest, Joseph, it is virtually impossible to find a direct link between any vaccine and death.  It is a rare autopsy report that reaches such a conclusion if one were to look at the actual data.  And, if you ask any licensed medical examiner, I would bet they will tell you what I say is true.  It’s why I didn’t make the claim the deaths were due to the vaccine, but rather only occurred after receiving the vaccine.  The facts are what they are, unlike opinions, and to date the facts bear out the safety of the vaccines.

[TLCOhio]

1 hour ago, Stumblefoot said:

Well, to be honest, Joseph, it is virtually impossible to find a direct link between any vaccine and death.  It is a rare autopsy report that reaches such a conclusion if one were to look at the actual data. 

 

Appreciate ALL of these various comments and follow-ups.  Agree that without doing a full autopsy, it is hard to know with certainty as to these interesting and important "cause-and-effect" questions.  

 

Personally for my wife and me, today is the "magic day" in it being two weeks since getting our second Moderna shot.  We feel "blessed" and fairly protected, but we are still wearing masks, being careful, etc.  Looking at early 2022 cruise options.  BUT, my wife, who is a RN with public health background is still very, very concerned about the "VARIANTS"!!  Anybody posses the full and complete answer/analysis there?  See below this update about Brazil's current challenges.

 

From Bloomberg News and MSN this morning, they had this headline: “Covid is taking over': Brazil plunges into deadliest chapter of its epidemic” with these highlights: “It was midway through February when André Machado realized Brazil’s coronavirus catastrophe was racing into a bewildering and remorseless new phase. Machado’s hospital, like health centres up and down the country, has been engulfed by a deluge of jittery, gasping patients – many of them previously healthy and bafflingly young. 'We’re trying to help people but this disease is much faster and more aggressive than the tactics we’ve been using,' Machado, 44, said of his team’s efforts to keep pace with a tripling of admissions.  'It’s like we’re flogging a dead horse,' he said, before adding: 'This disease is going to kill many more people in Brazil.'  At the end of last year Brazil’s president, Jair Bolsonaro declared his country had reached 'the tail end' of what was already one of the world’s worst outbreaks.Bolsonaro was wrong.  Three months later Latin America’s largest nation has lost almost 100,000 more lives – taking its total death toll to more than 275,000, second only to the US – and been plunged into the deadliest chapter of its 13-month epidemic.  'It feels like we’re putting a Band-Aid on a bullet wound,' said Eduarda Santa Rosa Barata, a 31-year-old infectologist who works in three ICUs in the north-eastern capital of Pernambuco state, all now stretched to the limit. 'We’re engaged in damage reduction … You open new beds and they fill up immediately.'  Machado saw several explanations for the torrent of cases, including political mismanagement and the slackening of social distancing measures, principally among the young. In recent months such containment efforts have largely collapsed, with schools and businesses reopening and Bolsonaro’s tourism minister even urging citizens to start holidaying again.  But the doctor suspected a third, more troubling element was also at work: an enigmatic and apparently more contagious variant called P1 that is thought to have emerged in the Amazon region in late 2020 but is now circulating across Brazil.”

 

Here is more: "Just how much of Brazil’s current crisis is down to the new variant, or other variants traced to the UK and South Africa, is a matter of intense debate. Some experts believe the variant has provided a convenient smokescreen for political leaders who have failed to rein in a disease.  São Paulo’s health secretary, Jean Gorinchteyn, this week told reporters that in many of that state’s ICUs half of patients were now under 50. 'I’m talking about 26 and 29 and 30-year-olds – often in a very grave condition,' he said, urging citizens to avoid crowds and remain at home. 'We all need to understand that what is happening right now is a different pandemic from the one we saw last year,' Gorinchteyn claimed."

 

Full story at:

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/covid-is-taking-over-brazil-plunges-into-deadliest-chapter-of-its-epidemic/ar-BB1exZpt

 

THANKS!  Enjoy!  Terry in Ohio

 

Athens & Greece: Many visuals, details from two visits in a city with great history, culture and architecture.  Now at 37,529 views.

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1101008

[Silver Spectre]

Interesting article in today’s Times by a senior ICU consultant from a London Hospital, who’s major long term concern is the pockets of unvaccinated people. The virus will mutate and may eventually change such that it renders our vaccinations ineffective. Vaccine ‘hesitancy’ is still a huge issue with some sections of our population, not helped by the likes of Wakefield, Icke and others.

[Stumblefoot]

1 hour ago, Silver Spectre said:

Vaccine ‘hesitancy’ is still a huge issue with some sections of our population...

Same here.  During the 80s, there was massive campaign in the U.S. titled “A Mind is a Terrible Thing to Waste”.  Unfortunately, many people didn’t take it seriously.  I’ve seen some estimates as high as 40% of the US population may not take any vaccine.