CDC New Guidance For Vaccinated People

[macandlucy]

2 minutes ago, HuliHuli said:

Well @macandlucy, let's examine the evidence.  I hate to cite the CDC that vacillates with the wind (https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/26/10/20-0948_article#:~:text=Participants made masks from different materials, and all,provide better protection than masks made of gauze.), but their report states inter alia "We also examined the filtration ability of cloth masks by reviewing 19 studies (3). We found that the filtration effectiveness of cloth masks is generally lower than that of medical masks and respirators. Filtration effectiveness of cloth masks varies widely;" [emphasis added]

 

A separate study specific to the use of homemade masks from the NIH (https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/24229526/) concluded "Our findings suggest that a homemade mask should only be considered as a last resort to prevent droplet transmission from infected individuals, but it would be better than no protection."

 

The science is not a ringing endorsement of your position.

Hey Hulihuli :)  Mask topic! Wheee! Let's go! ;) 

 

To begin, I go directly to the scientific journals, read at least the abstract, but usually the entire study so I can get an idea of the study design, methods employed, etc.  In my experience, these consolidated pieces of advice, like the one you listed above, are not always the best as they rely on the author's evaluation of the studies, and I prefer to do my own evaluations.

 

I do not disagree that "Filtration effectiveness of cloth masks varies widely,..." -- that's my whole point and has always been my point since I've been posting about masks in this forum. They must be effective masks!  An effective mask is one that is made from materials that offer a high degree of filtration against not just droplets, but aerosols. This is possible to achieve.  But I know that from reading the scientific journals. I have sadly lost a lot of confidence in our health experts this past year.

 

I do not disagree that "useless masks are pretty useless" either. I don't know if you're mixing me up with another poster, but I have made a number of posts about masks in this forum, going back a ways, and I do stress the importance of wearing an effective mask.

 

That is a ringing endorsement of my position that "useless masks are pretty useless".  I've never believed any different. 

 

 

 

[graphicguy]

1 hour ago, RunBikeCruiseDC said:

In our area, if there are cancellations they are offering up the vaccines to anyone nearby (volunteers, customers in pharmacies).  That's due to the storage issues with Pfizer and Moderna - once they have thawed, they need to be used in a certain amount of time.    That's how I got my jab sooner than I expected, in the right place at the right time.  J&J doesn't have the storage issues.

We're seeing the same thing in the Midwest.  Just this week they actually offered them to anyone who could go to the local County Fairgrounds.  You didn't even have to get out of your car.  They offer them this way until they run out and will continue when they re-stock.

 

As a result, infections and deaths have dropped dramatically around here.

[HuliHuli]

25 minutes ago, macandlucy said:

To begin, I go directly to the scientific journals, read at least the abstract, but usually the entire study

Precisely what I did using the specific references I provided.  Hmmm... where are your references?

 

You said "I do not disagree that "useless masks are pretty useless" either. I don't know if you're mixing me up with another poster,"  Hmmm..., i cannot find those words in my posting.  Maybe you are mixing people up. 😏

Edited March 20, 2021 by HuliHuli
Add text

[moto_italia]

Infodemic: Rapid and far-reaching spread of both accurate and inaccurate information about something, such as a disease. As facts, rumors, and fears mix and disperse, it becomes difficult to learn essential information about an issue.  

Covidiot: Someone who ignores health advice about COVID-19, and warnings regarding public health or safety.

Vaxhole: A person who intentionally gloats or brags about their vaccination status in order to signal to others their moral superiority. Individuals who display this characteristic have a propensity to also display narcissism.

Narcissist: One of several types of personality disorders.  A mental condition in which people have an inflated sense of their own importance, a deep need for excessive attention and admiration.

 

Perhaps we should self-assign to one of these four teams.  For clarity sake.  Just sayin'.

[coffeebean]

10 hours ago, farmersfight said:

 

 

 

 

I thought we we supposed to "end covid starting now" and "get back to cruising" a few posts ago. And now it's droning on and on about masks. I don't get it.

The mask debate will continue as long as we are in a war with an invisible enemy.  Sorry if the discussion went off topic from the original subject matter but sometimes that happens.

[3kidsncats]

10 hours ago, farmersfight said:

 

 

 

 

I thought we we supposed to "end covid starting now" and "get back to cruising" a few posts ago. And now it's droning on and on about masks. I don't get it.

If people refuse to wear effective masks, and follow the protocols we all already know about, then we won’t be able to stop this virus.  Yes, we have vaccines and that is a very promising situation, but we also have variants.  The P.1 variant currently ravaging Brazil, unchecked, has now been found in  20 other countries.  It is more contagious than the P.1.1 variant (UK) and Brazil is having a lot of problems getting their population vaccinated.  And because their president refuses to close anything, or mandate public health protocols, lots of people continue to congregate maskless.  

 

I think you are purposely trying to stir the pot, and create strife.  I don’t get it.  

[3kidsncats]

5 hours ago, HuliHuli said:

So @3kidsncats, would you be so kind as to post the peer-reviewed scientific studies that prove this point?  No generalizations please and no "CDC says" because they have been on both sides of the debate.

 

I'm happy to post my references here (https://www.technocracy.news/masks-are-neither-effective-nor-safe-a-summary-of-the-science/) that summarizes numerous peer-reviewed studies which collectively conclude "face masks were found to have no detectable effect against transmission of viral infections."  And note the specific studies are cited in each of the collected reports so you can dig down to read the specifics of each study and the conclusions of the respective science teams.  In one of those studies that focused on the use of the most common disposable surgical masks, you know the kind you buy in packs of 100 from Walmart, they conclude "Disposable medical masks (also known as surgical masks) are loose-fitting devices that were designed to be worn by medical personnel to protect accidental contamination of patient wounds, and to protect the wearer against splashes or sprays of bodily fluids (36). There is limited evidence for their effectiveness in preventing influenza virus transmission either when worn by the infected person for source control or when worn by uninfected persons to reduce exposure."

 

I look forward to reviewing your countervailing list.  From my perspective, the studies support the conclusion that mask wearing, particularly after being vaccinated, is 'feel-good science' AKA "theater."

If I thought it would make a difference, I would “be so kind” as to go back and track down the past years worth of paying attention and review of relevant studies.  But as much as I would like to change some minds about the realities of what we should all be doing, it is clear that it is useless.  How about you be so kind as to actually do the research yourself, instead of expecting others to spoon feed it to you.  It’s readily available if you actually want to understand (which I don’t think you do).  The relevant data you posted supports mine and MacandLucy’s point — just wearing any old mask isn’t the point — we all need to be wearing effective masks, and there is a difference.  Not sure why you seem to be posting to refute our points.  Do you not understand what the data means in what you posted??

[coffeebean]

5 hours ago, HuliHuli said:

So @3kidsncats, would you be so kind as to post the peer-reviewed scientific studies that prove this point?  No generalizations please and no "CDC says" because they have been on both sides of the debate.

 

 

I'll answer that. Here is visual proof that masks block droplets and aerosols. Don't believe your own eyes????

 

Visual demonstration how masks do work to slow the spread of the virus

[3kidsncats]

12 minutes ago, coffeebean said:

The mask debate will continue as long as we are in a war with an invisible enemy.  Sorry if the discussion went off topic from the original subject matter but sometimes that happens.

I don’t see that the mask debate is particularly off topic — this is a thread is about CDC guidelines for vaccinated people, and that guidance still includes masking due to variants.  

 

I just don’t understand why so many people refuse to do something so simple, and so effective in preventing spread.  No one likes wearing a mask, but it is such a small thing to do to save lives, why would you not just do it?