CDC New Guidance For Vaccinated People

[sugcarol]

Didnt the CDC say that once hospital beds for Covid patients drop below 15% of a state's total hospital  beds then lockdowns are not necessary, and mandates can be cancelled? That is what the case is here in Texas. 

[DCGuy64]

I can remember when last year, the mainstream American media blanketed the airwaves with "expected crisis" conditions at hospitals in Washington State and New York, prompting the construction of a military field hospital-type facility in Washington and the drafting of the naval medical ship the USNS Comfort to NYC in order to relieve pressure on the hospitals. Both turned out to be unnecessary, yet the media virtually ignored those facts. This story is behind a paywall, but says that of the expected 1000 beds on the Comfort, only 20 were used. Is it any surprise that I don't trust the media? As the old saying goes, "if it bleeds, it leads." 

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/02/nyregion/ny-coronavirus-usns-comfort.html

 

[JamieLogical]

3 minutes ago, DCGuy64 said:

I can remember when last year, the mainstream American media blanketed the airwaves with "expected crisis" conditions at hospitals in Washington State and New York, prompting the construction of a military field hospital-type facility in Washington and the drafting of the naval medical ship the USNS Comfort to NYC in order to relieve pressure on the hospitals. Both turned out to be unnecessary, yet the media virtually ignored those facts. This story is behind a paywall, but says that of the expected 1000 beds on the Comfort, only 20 were used. Is it any surprise that I don't trust the media? As the old saying goes, "if it bleeds, it leads." 

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/02/nyregion/ny-coronavirus-usns-comfort.html

 

 

Interesting that your perspective that the media CAUSED those events, rather than reported on them. You think the Comfort and Mercy were called in and the field hospitals were built just because the media was calling it a crisis? Not based on any recommendations from scientists and public health experts that the governments were listening to?

[DCGuy64]

5 minutes ago, JamieLogical said:

 

Interesting that your perspective that the media CAUSED those events, rather than reported on them. You think the Comfort and Mercy were called in and the field hospitals were built just because the media was calling it a crisis? Not based on any recommendations from scientists and public health experts that the governments were listening to?

Caused? Where in the world did you get that impression? No, here's what I think: the media loves to gin up the "be afraid" narrative, and that's exactly what they've done. By trumpeting all of the scary details and prognostications, but burying or barely mentioning the positives, they've shown themselves to be dedicated to one narrative and one only. That's my point. I lost all respect (what little remained) for the US mainstream media last year. It was farcical: I'd see CNN anchors John Berman and Alisyn Camerota come on with literally downturned mouths and sad expressions on their faces. 99% of the coverage was death tolls, new cases, and restrictions. By contrast, the BBC reported (shocker) number of people recovering, wow what a concept. Last night I watched a montage of reporters from NBC, MSNBC and CNN last May 15 saying there was "no way" we'd have a vaccine within 1 year. And we did, in less than a year. The media is craven and only interested in scaring people to generate clicks and revenue. And I will NEVER think otherwise. The only thing the media caused was deliberate fear on the part of the viewing public. And I stopped believing them long ago.

[oteixeira]

There is a reason that "If it bleeds it leads" is a slogan of news media.  Fear attracts viewers much more that happy stories.  I like to read sites like the Good News Network.

[Beach Life 1]

The  Governor of NY did not want to give any credit to the President for responding and readying the  USNS Comfort, and the Javitz Center for Covid use.    Maybe if he had used these facilities,  instead of playing political games,   there would be thousands of elderly still alive today.

[DCGuy64]

The NY Governor's days in office appear to be numbered. Personally, I thought his news briefings last year were pretty good, and I listened to nearly all of them. But he's screwed the pooch now.

[JamieLogical]

3 hours ago, DCGuy64 said:

Caused? Where in the world did you get that impression? No, here's what I think: the media loves to gin up the "be afraid" narrative, and that's exactly what they've done. By trumpeting all of the scary details and prognostications, but burying or barely mentioning the positives, they've shown themselves to be dedicated to one narrative and one only. That's my point. I lost all respect (what little remained) for the US mainstream media last year. It was farcical: I'd see CNN anchors John Berman and Alisyn Camerota come on with literally downturned mouths and sad expressions on their faces. 99% of the coverage was death tolls, new cases, and restrictions. By contrast, the BBC reported (shocker) number of people recovering, wow what a concept. Last night I watched a montage of reporters from NBC, MSNBC and CNN last May 15 saying there was "no way" we'd have a vaccine within 1 year. And we did, in less than a year. The media is craven and only interested in scaring people to generate clicks and revenue. And I will NEVER think otherwise. The only thing the media caused was deliberate fear on the part of the viewing public. And I stopped believing them long ago.

 

Okay you said "prompting". The implication was still that the media drove governments to make decisions rather than reporting on the decisions being made by the governments.

 

"I can remember when last year, the mainstream American media blanketed the airwaves with "expected crisis" conditions at hospitals in Washington State and New York, prompting the construction of a military field hospital-type facility in Washington and the drafting of the naval medical ship the USNS Comfort to NYC in order to relieve pressure on the hospitals."

[graphicguy]

22 hours ago, cruisin07family said:

 

Where is this on the NCL site as a requirement?  

NCL isn't sailing, yet.  

 

RCCL has started to sail (Israel), and has stipulated all passengers and crew must be vaccinated before sailing.

 

Cruise lines are quite frankly, copy cats.  What one does, they all do.

 

So, expect a COVID vaccine to be a requirement for the foreseeable future if you want to cruise.

Edited March 12, 2021 by graphicguy

[RocketMan275]

5 hours ago, JamieLogical said:

 

Interesting that your perspective that the media CAUSED those events, rather than reported on them. You think the Comfort and Mercy were called in and the field hospitals were built just because the media was calling it a crisis? Not based on any recommendations from scientists and public health experts that the governments were listening to?

So, you admit the scientists and public health experts provided bad advice to the government?
If so, then why should we believe their advice now?

[farmersfight]

5 hours ago, DCGuy64 said:

By trumpeting all of the scary details and prognostications, but burying or barely mentioning the positives

 

Oh, oh...a "dog whistle". Orange Man BAD!!

 

 

2 hours ago, DCGuy64 said:

But he's screwed the pooch now.

 

Looks like he tried to screw more than pooches...

[JamieLogical]

26 minutes ago, RocketMan275 said:

So, you admit the scientists and public health experts provided bad advice to the government?
If so, then why should we believe their advice now?

 

I never said it was bad advice. I am sure they made advice based on the information and data they had available to them at the time. Despite their best efforts, I don't think any of them managed to develop psychic powers through all of this. They can only project out based on current data and trends, coupled with their current understanding of the situation. I would like to believe that scientists and medical experts were taking their cues from data and available information and the governments were taking their cues from the scientists and medical experts. I would hope that if the media had influence, it was only over the laypeople, not the experts or the government officials.

[DCGuy64]

2 hours ago, JamieLogical said:

 

Okay you said "prompting". The implication was still that the media drove governments to make decisions rather than reporting on the decisions being made by the governments.

 

"I can remember when last year, the mainstream American media blanketed the airwaves with "expected crisis" conditions at hospitals in Washington State and New York, prompting the construction of a military field hospital-type facility in Washington and the drafting of the naval medical ship the USNS Comfort to NYC in order to relieve pressure on the hospitals."

Wow, we're in serious "grammatical rat hole territory" now, but here goes:

When I said that the expected crisis conditions prompted..., I was talking about how concerns raised by locals on the ground in New York City and Washington State prompted the government to take those steps, which I, at the time, thought were warranted. Let me say that again: given the conditions on the ground, it seemed reasonable, at the time, to build a makeshift hospital in WA and bring the USNS Comfort to New York harbor. That's because cases were rising fast and there was a concern that reinforcements needed to be brought in. And the media did report these facts, no problem there. The issue is that the same media was virtually silent when those measures turned out not to be necessary. It wasn't that the media prompted the government, but rather that the same media that breathlessly reported the rising cases (ie "it's gotten so bad that the government is now building extra hospitals and bringing in a Navy medical ship to help") didn't follow up with the (frankly positive news) that that WA hospital wasn't used at all (IIRC) and the Comfort barely used. I mean, imagine the media saying "here's some good news on the Coronavirus front: the Comfort left NY Harbor today because things didn't turn out the way we thought, and the extra hospital in WA never got used-what a relief!" Nah, the media just wants to spin things in a negative way. But there's nothing new about this. Newspapers are notorious for blaring "Congressman X indicted for espionage, drug trafficking, sexual harassment," etc on page A1 and then "Congressman cleared of all charges" on page B75. They know what they're doing.

[DCGuy64]

29 minutes ago, farmersfight said:

Looks like he tried to screw more than pooches...

Hey-O! LOL 🤣

[HuliHuli]

9 minutes ago, JamieLogical said:

 

I never said it was bad advice. I am sure they made advice based on the information and data they had available to them at the time. Despite their best efforts, I don't think any of them managed to develop psychic powers through all of this. They can only project out based on current data and trends, coupled with their current understanding of the situation. I would like to believe that scientists and medical experts were taking their cues from data and available information and the governments were taking their cues from the scientists and medical experts. I would hope that if the media had influence, it was only over the laypeople, not the experts or the government officials.

Like you Jamie, I would "like to believe that scientists and medical experts were [and are] taking their cues from data and available information," but I think there is ample evidence that some experts took on a more political face at times (not naming names) and regrettably some still are.  I also think that we cruisers likely let our bias toward cruising color some of our opinions on these boards.

 

I posted the op-ed of the JHU Dr. Marty Makary yesterday and felt that he was calling it pretty straight based on the most recent study data.  But as others have noted, the CDC seems pretty lethargic in updating and revising their guidance, and have been virtually silent on their CSO since it was issued.  Maybe if they were more forthcoming and timely, we would all have a greater respect for what they say and what it means for our cruising future.

 

Finally, earlier you raised the implication from @DCGuy64's post that "the media drove governments to make decisions rather than reporting on the decisions being made by the governments," the "be afraid" narrative mentioned earlier.  Sadly, I do think the media has championed narratives that some in government have adopted as their own, and that some media and government officials tend to feed on each other to the detriment of what should be more objective reporting and government decision making.  What ever happened to Dragnet's "Just the facts ma'am."  BTW, that is probably before your time; also, BTW, I have found little to disagree with in the months/years of your posts that I have followed.  As this thread takes on a decidedly political tone, I would hope we could all focus on debating the facts and outlooks for the future as it began.

 

I've droned on enough...

[coffeebean]

8 hours ago, DCGuy64 said:

I can remember when last year, the mainstream American media blanketed the airwaves with "expected crisis" conditions at hospitals in Washington State and New York, prompting the construction of a military field hospital-type facility in Washington and the drafting of the naval medical ship the USNS Comfort to NYC in order to relieve pressure on the hospitals. Both turned out to be unnecessary, yet the media virtually ignored those facts. This story is behind a paywall, but says that of the expected 1000 beds on the Comfort, only 20 were used. Is it any surprise that I don't trust the media? As the old saying goes, "if it bleeds, it leads." 

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/02/nyregion/ny-coronavirus-usns-comfort.html

 

Really unnecessary? Why then were Covid positive patients returned to nursing homes?

[oteixeira]

3 minutes ago, coffeebean said:

Really unnecessary? Why then were Covid positive patients returned to nursing homes?

Great question, why did the governor allow that rather then direct them to the ship in the harbor.  I am sure we would all love to know that.  Sadly, that governor will tell us all he did the right thing there.  

 

 

[coffeebean]

4 hours ago, graphicguy said:

.........RCCL has started to sail (Israel), and has stipulated all passengers and crew must be vaccinated before sailing..........

 

 

Un-vaccinated children are sailing on RCCL out of Israel. That is NOT 100% vaccinated passengers and crew.

[coffeebean]

31 minutes ago, oteixeira said:

Great question, why did the governor allow that rather then direct them to the ship in the harbor.  I am sure we would all love to know that.  Sadly, that governor will tell us all he did the right thing there.  

 

 

From what I understand, the ship was not outfitted to take the Covid patients. But....what could have been done was empty the beds of NON Covid hospital patients and utilize the ship for them. That would have opened up beds for the Covid positive nursing home patients so they would not have been returned to their nursing homes.

 

I'm sure I am simplifying the situation and I'm also sure I don't know all the goings on in NYS at the time. It just seems that the situation could have been handled differently and lots of lives would have been saved. Such a sad situation.

[Beach Life 1]

8 minutes ago, coffeebean said:

From what I understand, the ship was not outfitted to take the Covid patients. But....what could have been done was empty the beds of NON Covid hospital patients and utilize the ship for them. That would have opened up beds for the Covid positive nursing home patients so they would not have been returned to their nursing homes.

 

I'm sure I am simplifying the situation and I'm also sure I don't know all the goings on in NYS at the time. It just seems that the situation could have been handled differently and lots of lives would have been saved. Such a sad situation.

The USNS Comfort was retrofitted to accept Covid patients.  As I said,  politics.

[coffeebean]

13 minutes ago, jezabel80 said:

The USNS Comfort was retrofitted to accept Covid patients.  As I said,  politics.

If that is the case, then those NH patients should never have been sent back to their nursing homes. My heart is heavy for the families of those who died.

[tumblew467]

On 3/9/2021 at 3:12 PM, farmersfight said:

 

More good news, thanks for posting @GA Dave. Hopefully, the other vaccines (Moderna, J&J) are also effective against the variants. Studies are on going but it would be great if the studies eventually show that the vaccines also protect against virus transmission (spreading) to others. Then, if you have been vaccinated, no need for the mask anymore.

From what I saw J&J was the only one who ran trails in Brazil, UK and South Africa. Moderna and Phizer did not.

[Keith B.]

On 3/9/2021 at 8:21 PM, JamieLogical said:

 

Far fewer than 1 in 100 car trips result in an accident. Probably fewer than 1 in 100 car accidents result in a fatality...

Not all cars on the road have accidents.  Just as all people do not get Covid.  So your question about Skittles assumes I have Covid. 1.5 in 100 cases of Covid result in death. What if I am one of the 300,000,000 that have do not gotten Covid?  I think that brings it down substantially.  Something like .0015 in 320,000,000.  Then it is a question if I even like Skittles.  LOL.  Now throw in the Vacine into the calculation.  I have had both shots.  

[mianmike]

13 hours ago, pinkie60 said:

I’m a Floridian and have had my shot (J&J). The vaccines here in Florida seem plentiful. 

 

I'm glad to hear the CDC is sending copious amounts of vaccine to Florida.  We need Florida vaccinated so we can start cruising! 

[teacherman]

Why do so many people get upset with the CDC?  Their job is to do everything they can to keep disease from spreading.  There job is not to open the economy or the schools or start cruise ships sailing again.  They are simply doing their job.  It is the politicians who have to make the other decisions, and they can't win no matter what they do.  We were originally told 12 to 18 months.  It has now been 12.  Maybe 6 more to go.  With vaccines, maybe less.  But then 30% say they won't take the vaccine.  So, who knows when it will end?  I certainly don't.