CDC-update May 5th

[cruisingguy007]

24 minutes ago, kleibo said:

Can we talk sensibly for a minute 

 

Can someone tell me the science behind why it is OK to sit by a pool at a hotel without a mask and why you can't on a cruise ship.  Both being socially distant.

 

Can someone tell me the science behind eating an extended meal in a restaurant with no mask and why you can't on a cruise ship.

 

Where is the data?

 

When you cede power it's often hard to rein it back in. Business has known this for a long time and it's why they are hesitant to accept regulations and/or sometimes just do things (Uber style) and ask for forgiveness after. It puts the onus on the respondents/antis vs justification for existence. Individuals have just gotten a great reminder of this. We agreed to temporary limitations/restrictions (accommodation) and now are expected to beg permission for restoration to "normal" existence. We went from a colleague partnership to a parent-child relationship. Hospitals aren't over taxed, death rates plummeting, and soon every American man,woman, or child will be able to get protected against covid, yet many are acting like we are in the exact same position as we were last year. They were quick to adopt restrictions but are moving at a snails pace to rescind them, even when many make no sense. It's nuts.       

Edited May 6, 2021 by cruisingguy007

[BlerkOne]

Ceding power to covid is nuts? I think it is common sense. The virus dictates the timeline.

[embarkation75]

13 minutes ago, BlerkOne said:

The Don't Tread  on Me cult will enjoy reading the updated Carnival ticket contract.

 

(b) Carnival has adopted specific COVID-19 Guest Protocols with input from medical, science and public health experts and guidance from international, national, and regional health authorities, including the U. S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention and local health agencies when the Vessel is within that agency’s jurisdiction. Guest acknowledges that these directives may change from time to time and that Carnival’s COVID-19 Guest Protocols may therefore change. GUEST EXPRESSLY AGREES TO COMPLY NOT ONLY WITH THE COVID-19 GUEST PROTOCOLS AS THEY ARE DESCRIBED HEREIN, BUT ALSO AS THEY ARE SET FORTH ON CARNIVAL’S COVID-19 GUEST PROTOCOLS WEBPAGE, AT ALL TIMES INCLUDING PRE-EMBARKATION, WHILE ON BOARD, DURING PORT CALLS AND SHORE EXCURSIONS AND/OR FINAL DISEMBARKATION. In case of any conflict between the COVID-19 Guest Protocols described herein or on Carnival’s website, the website controls and Guest’s agreement to abide by said website constitutes an integral part of this Ticket Contract.

 

 

(c) Guest acknowledges that Carnival’s COVID-19 Guest Protocols may or will include (but are not be limited to): (1) completion of an accurate, truthful and complete health questionnaire in a form and containing any health or travel-related questions as determined by Carnival in its sole discretion based on advice from cognizant government or health authorities or medical experts for each Guest prior to boarding; (2) pre-embarkation and/or periodic testing and temperature checks of each Guest followed by a period of isolation until test results are available; (3) modified capacity rules for activities (including but not limited to restaurants, gyms, and entertainment events on board and for shore excursions) which may limit or eliminate the ability of Guest to participate in particular activities; (4) mandatory use by each Guest (except for children under the age of 2 years) of face masks in most locations outside of the Guest’s stateroom while on board, during embarkation, disembarkation and shore excursions; (5) mandatory physical distancing of Guests outside of their cruise companions (family and/or immediate travel group) at any/all times while on board and during embarkation, disembarkation, and shore excursions; (6) additional restrictions during shore excursions depending on local conditions, including but not limited to denial of disembarkation at destinations unless participating in only Carnival-approved shore excursions and denial of reboarding the vessel for any noncompliance by Guest or members of Guest’s travelling party with COVID-19 Guest Protocols; (7) mandatory hand-sanitizing by Guests upon entry or exit of any public areas; (8) confinement of Guests to staterooms , quarantine or emergency disembarkation of Guest if, in Carnival’s sole discretion, such steps are necessary to prevent or slow the spread of COVID-19; (9) the required completion by Guest in a timely manner of any written authorizations or consent forms required for Carnival to carry out its COVID-19 Guest Protocols (including but not limited to medical information, medical privacy, or personal data privacy consent forms), and; (10) other policies and procedures deemed by Carnival in its sole discretion to be necessary to reduce the risk of spread of COVID-19.

I honestly don't see many of these type of individuals making it past the cruise terminal. Similar to DeSantis, they'd rather fall on their own sword than actually comply with these rules. See it all of the time at stores requiring masks and many either want to force their way in or argue about their rights in a private business. 

Edited May 6, 2021 by embarkation75

[BlerkOne]

4 minutes ago, embarkation75 said:

I honestly don't see many of these type of individuals making it past the cruise terminal. Similar to DeSantis, they'd rather fall on their own sword than actually comply with these rules. See it all of the time at stores requiring masks and many either want to force their way in or argue about their rights in a private business. 

Yep. We'll see if Florida blinks

 

https://thepointsguy.com/news/norwegian-could-pull-ships-from-florida/

 

 

[kilkoyne]

23 minutes ago, BlerkOne said:

(4) mandatory use by each Guest (except for children under the age of 2 years) of face masks in most locations outside of the Guest’s stateroom while on board, during embarkation, disembarkation and shore excursions;

 

Many people are not going to have masks on. Some will be eating, some drinking, some may be in the pool, some will be too intoxicated, there will be those who may need constant reminding to put their masks on, and likely many others will just pull them down/off when a crew member walks away.

 

I believe it's going to take a lot for someone to be placed in the cruise ship "brig" let alone taken off the ship entirely. Maybe I'm wrong......we'll see very soon once cruising begins and people start uploading videos on Youtube.

 

 

Edited May 6, 2021 by kilkoyne

[BlerkOne]

7 minutes ago, kilkoyne said:

 

Many people are not going to have masks on. Some will be eating, some drinking, some may be in the pool, some will be too intoxicated, there will be those who may need constant reminding to put their masks on, and likely many others will just pull them down/off when a crew member walks away.

 

I believe it's going to take a lot for someone to be placed in the cruise ship "brig" let alone taken off the ship entirely. Maybe I'm wrong......we'll see very soon once cruising begins and people start uploading videos on Youtube.

 

 

Don't plan on walking around eating and drinking. You will be sitting in designated areas. Socially distanced of course. And the cruise lines will enforce. It is in the ticket contract and they will expose themselves to major lawsuits if there is an outbreak on a ship the cruise line should have prevented.

 

As with the insurrection, social media videos will make excellent evidence.

 

There are cameras almost everywhere on cruise ships.

Edited May 6, 2021 by BlerkOne

[cruisingguy007]

26 minutes ago, BlerkOne said:

Ceding power to covid is nuts? I think it is common sense. The virus dictates the timeline.

 

That is not what they sold everyone on to get the capitulation. It was to not overload hospitals and morgues. It was about people stacked in hallways, overloaded doctors and nurses, overflowing morgues, old people pilling up like cord wood, oxygen running out, zero therapeutics, no vaccines, and fear, fear, and more fear. We were much worse than India in fact. People complied and halted life as we knew it. We now have hospitals operating normally (some nearly empty and laying off), very low death rates, protected old people and compromised, vaccines, therapeutics, and still have folks pumping fear/panic.

 

The People never agreed to restrictions in perpetuity or until covid risk was eliminated. The goal posts keep being moved and "saving people from themselves" type justifications for restrictions. That was never the deal. People can choose to protect themselves or not but it's time to get on with it. They need to hurry up and approve the vaccine for all kids. A few weeks to a month after that point, I will support zero restrictions on the public by the government. Private businesses could choose to continue the theater (their right) but government restrictions need to have a termination date. Once kids can get protected, then there is no excuse for them anymore. The risks will be manageable.         

Edited May 6, 2021 by cruisingguy007

[florida eagle]

6 hours ago, stoddaj1 said:

 If the "powers that be"  listened to the science in the first place and not listened to people without any understanding or idea about what needed to be done, (ie drinking bleach, not wearing a mask etc.) so many illnesses and deaths would have been prevented. Senators and higher not following CDC orders are doing it for their own political gain.  Do you think covid would have been downplayed if it were not an election year?  Nope, not like that.  It should not have been about politics it should have been about health.  

 

Am I tired of covid?  Absolutely!!! But am I doing what has been asked of me to help keep myself safe AND others safe?  Absolutely!!  This is something which far too many people are not understanding.  The "It's all about me" mentality is detrimental to society in many ways, not just covid related.  

 

I wear an N95 mask all day everyday at work to protect severely immunocompromised individuals in my life.  A 3 layer cloth or disposable mask is much easier to wear.  Just wear the darn masks, social distance, get a vaccine and go about daily business.  Life is SO much more important than that.  The sooner people "suck it up buttercup" the earlier we will gain a semblance of normalcy again.

Science told us decades ago that most of the beaches would be gone and half of Florida under water by now. Including the ports. It is who controls the science. And who controls the messaging.

[kilkoyne]

41 minutes ago, BlerkOne said:

Don't plan on walking around eating and drinking. You will be sitting in designated areas. Socially distanced of course. And the cruise lines will enforce. It is in the ticket contract and they will expose themselves to major lawsuits if there is an outbreak on a ship the cruise line should have prevented.

 

As with the insurrection, social media videos will make excellent evidence.

 

There are cameras almost everywhere on cruise ships.

 

 

There will be people will be walking around and eating....the CDC even suggested "grab and go" meals.

 

There just isn't enough crew members on deck to enforce wearing masks with the thousands of people that will be wandering around outside. 

Cameras? Give me a break, lol.

 

The only way I see this being strictly enforced is to put everyone who isn't wearing in the "brig" and have them taken off the ship at the next port and that's not going to happen.

 

 

[SRQbeachgirl]

States across the country are lifting their State of Emergency declarations. Even our Democratic Governor here in Virginia announced today that our SOE will likely be lifted at the end of June. The CDC's CSO lasts only as long as a national State of Emergency remains in effect, so if the the national SOE goes away soon this may all be moot.  

[BlerkOne]

2 minutes ago, kilkoyne said:

 

Cameras? Give me a break, lol.

 

You must not be very observant. Better keep your diaper on - the facial recognition software is quite good.

 

2 minutes ago, kilkoyne said:

 

The only way I see this being strictly enforced is to put everyone who isn't wearing in the "brig" and have them taken off the ship at the next port and that's not going to happen.

 

 

 

No, they only have to put one off or leave one behind, and word will get around. They won't lock you in the brig, they will just confine you to your cabin with security sitting outside.

[chengkp75]

1 hour ago, NightOne said:

Yeah this is the cruise lines fault. I mean they weren't waiting on CDC guidance all this time.

If you knew anything about regulated industries, you would know that there was nothing preventing the cruise lines from presenting action plans back, oh, I don't know, April of 2020, to meet the requirements of the No Sail Order, without the need for "technical instructions".  Technical instructions are published by regulators when the regulated industry does nothing to meet the regulations.  Even without direct jurisdiction, do you think hospitals around the US were waiting on the CDC or the state CDC's (who do have direct jurisdiction) to issue "technical instructions" on how to mitigate covid?  Each facility generates its own action plan, based on their unique set of circumstances.  Everyone has truly taken the cruise line's Kool-aid for thinking that it was all waiting on these technical instructions.  The cruise lines were, and still are, waiting for this pandemic to blow over, so they can resume operations with no more oversight than they had before.

[chengkp75]

2 minutes ago, SRQbeachgirl said:

States across the country are lifting their State of Emergency declarations. Even our Democratic Governor here in Virginia announced today that our SOE will likely be lifted at the end of June. The CDC's CSO lasts only as long as a national State of Emergency remains in effect, so if the the national SOE goes away soon this may all be moot.  

While the CSO may go away, the requirements set forth in the NSO and CSO have met the requirements to become permanent regulations, and I foresee that some of them, in particular the port and service agreements/contracts, will become part of the VSP, and a permanent requirement to obtain health clearance into the US.

[chengkp75]

2 hours ago, NightOne said:

They VOLUNTARILY suspended cruising on March 13th, 2020 and have been screwed over ever since.

This is not quite correct.  They were shut down in the US by the NSO.  They voluntarily suspended cruising everywhere else (where the CDC had no jurisdiction) because there were no countries to go to.

[kilkoyne]

9 minutes ago, BlerkOne said:

 

You must not be very observant. Better keep your diaper on - the facial recognition software is quite good.

 

 

No, they only have to put one off or leave one behind, and word will get around. They won't lock you in the brig, they will just confine you to your cabin with security sitting outside.

 

 

What about people getting out of the pool, send to their room? SMH

 

Anyway, I'm done with this conversation. Maybe I'm wrong, time will tell.

Edited May 6, 2021 by kilkoyne

[cruisingguy007]

6 minutes ago, BlerkOne said:

That sounds like the orange dumpster fire.

 

You won't get an argument from me about that but some of these pandemic pimps are starting to follow the exact same line of desperation for attention, power and relevance by going down the same rabbit hole of politicizing the pandemic as well. People shouldn't be manipulated by either side and it shouldn't be used for political points.     

[florida eagle]

1 minute ago, BlerkOne said:

Sounds like an exaggeration to me. But sea level is rising and that's a fact.

https://oceanservice.noaa.gov/facts/sealevel.html

Of course it is. The earth changes. Most people on the planet live within a hundred miles of water. We build and overbuild on barrier islands. And continue to do so. A lot o land on main side is sea level or even has swamp in many areas. The elites are pushing that CO2 has come before the Heat in Global Climate Change. But ice samples prove the Heat has come before the CO2. Man is resilient in survival. Life has survived many changes of weather and planetary climate changes. And if the earth decides a new ice age is coming, well then it will be tough but some will survive it. 8 billion people living in most every area of the world can make shysters look good.

[SRQbeachgirl]

6 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

While the CSO may go away, the requirements set forth in the NSO and CSO have met the requirements to become permanent regulations, and I foresee that some of them, in particular the port and service agreements/contracts, will become part of the VSP, and a permanent requirement to obtain health clearance into the US.

 

Whether they have met the requirements to become permanent has not yet been settled and is being debated. We shall see...

[florida eagle]

1 minute ago, Stallion said:

Sunny Day Floods Quadruple in 15 years in Miami Beach

 

https://e360.yale.edu/features/as-miami-keeps-building-rising-seas-deepen-its-social-divide

 

I do not disagree. But who or what are we believing.? Is it man who has done this? Because if it is we better get the nations making all the products for us to clean up also after we spend trillions of dollars on the eco green projects. Otherwise we will compete even less with the for supremacy.

[BlerkOne]

13 minutes ago, SRQbeachgirl said:

 

Whether they have met the requirements to become permanent has not yet been settled and is being debated. We shall see...

Even the Healthy Sail Panel has recommendations that could be phases out and others that should remain and not just for covid.

 

https://safety4sea.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/09/healthy-sail-panel-full-recommendations.pdf

[SRQbeachgirl]

3 minutes ago, BlerkOne said:

Even the Healthy Sail Panel has recommendations that could be phases out and others that should remain and not just for covid.

 

https://safety4sea.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/09/healthy-sail-panel-full-recommendations.pdf

 

Those are certainly things the cruise lines could do if they choose do do so once the State of Emergency is lifted. My post was referencing government requirements for social distancing, mask wearing, etc. that will not be required for literally any other industry.

[Radiioman46]

This is what happens when you have a handful of unelected unaccountable bureaucrats in charge! 

 And the director, bless her heart, doesn't even know what a cruise ship is. 

[BlerkOne]

7 minutes ago, SRQbeachgirl said:

 

Those are certainly things the cruise lines could do if they choose do do so once the State of Emergency is lifted. My post was referencing government requirements for social distancing, mask wearing, etc. that will not be required for literally any other industry.

I think the cruise lines are equally concerned about liability going forward. The ambulance chasers are watching.

[BlerkOne]

1 minute ago, Radiioman46 said:

This is what happens when you have a handful of unelected unaccountable bureaucrats in charge! 

 And the director, bless her heart, doesn't even know what a cruise ship is. 

How is that different from last year?

[Radiioman46]

Just now, BlerkOne said:

How is that different from last year?

Who said anything about last year? I was talking about unelected unaccountable bureaucrats. Stay on topic.