U.S. appeals court lifts CDC cruise ship restrictions in win for Florida

[AtSeaWithChris]

1 minute ago, ontheweb said:

NO, the judge ordered them into mediation, which is a totally different process than arbitration.

Ok, we are splitting hairs here. Terminology is not as important as the spirit of what happened. I've only heard it called arbitration. 

[Tippyton]

5 hours ago, BoozinCroozin said:

Regardless of the ruling, the cruise lines have a successful working plan. Most cruises have been extremely successful. There is no need to change what is happening nor their protocols. The only real difference at this point is the invasiveness of the CDC. The cruise lines are not going to abandon protocols that would allow the CDC to step back into the arena. Carnival is gearing up a large number of ships soon and taking the first big steps back to normalcy. 

I see an increase in capacity in the near future.

[ontheweb]

2 minutes ago, AtSeaWithChris said:

Ok, we are splitting hairs here. Terminology is not as important as the spirit of what happened. I've only heard it called arbitration. 

No, it is not splitting hairs. They are totally different processes. An arbitrator makes a binding ruling. A mediator tries to get the parties to agree on a solution to their dispute.

[Tippyton]

9 minutes ago, AtSeaWithChris said:

The CDC had to admit in arbitration that vaccines had changed the CSO landscape. They would have been fine with their power if not for having them forced to go to arbitration. 

This.  They got called out.

[AtSeaWithChris]

3 minutes ago, ontheweb said:

No, it is not splitting hairs. They are totally different processes. An arbitrator makes a binding ruling. A mediator tries to get the parties to agree on a solution to their dispute.

The point is not to argue about insignificant pieces of a comment. Arbitration or mediation whichever it was is when we started getting progress from the CDC. Now I'm going to look it up. 

[BoozinCroozin]

11 minutes ago, Tippyton said:

I see an increase in capacity in the near future.

I don't expect it at all. Delta and Lambda are not mythical unicorns. They are real variants in the US. I don't see cruise lines changing too much at all for a year. The only thing they may loosen up late 2021 is the 95/5 rule. They may make that 90/10. For the next 12 months, that is about all I see happening.

[lobster1313]

 

6 minutes ago, BoozinCroozin said:

The only thing they may loosen up late 2021 is the 95/5 rule. They may make that 90/10. For the next 12 months, that is about all I see happening.

This was probably the compromise that the original judge was looking for but neither side would budge.  A change like this could allow other companies to go vaccinated and loosen their onboard restrictions.  

[MrMarc]

5 minutes ago, lobster1313 said:

They provided NO supporting evidence except for the data from the Diamond Princesses.  You posted in the thread about the judges decision you didn't know why they didn't present the evidence in court.  The judge even gave them till July 2nd to provide something but they didn't.  

I have looked at the briefs now, not just the hearing transcript.  Besides that, the more the Courts have played tennis with this decision, the less comfortable I have become with Judges making decisions based on a case filed by politicians trying to force a health/science body to change how they do things.    

[stellarose]

not a happy opinion but keep the protocols  / keep 95% vaccinated. its working.  why stop now. let more people get vaccinated then eliminate some protocols. 

 

[ALWAYS CRUZIN]

16 hours ago, MrMarc said:

Everything is subject to change hourly at this point.  I would hope that they follow the protocols they have already announced for the cruises and make any changes on cruises that they have not announced yet.  In other words, do what they have already said they were going to do.  However, I am uncertain if they can do that in Florida.  They have taken the position that they are not refusing service, but that the ship had a Federally enforced limited on unvaccinated travelers.  Now that there is no enforceable rule, I am not sure they can still take that position.  Honestly, none of this is good for the industry.  What would be good is to make some rules and stick to them until a certain time when they would change, but that would be announced ahead of time.  Consistency and predictability would be much better than this mess. 

Unvaccinated 5% Carnival will be asking if you would like to indicate you have been vaccinated. Not requiring you must do so. Who would not want to let them know? Those that choose not to, are considered non vaccinated. Makes perfect sense to me. Once that reaches 5% no more non vaccinated allowed on board. I would think they should indicate that on the web site so everyone will know what to expect. Also all the TAs should be aware of it.

[MrMarc]

2 minutes ago, Retiredmedic said:

Study your history. It will prove you wrong.

I have, and like I said, in general I agree with you.  I do not think there is a historical comparison to our current situation, other than the Spanish flu.  And I do not think I would use our response to that as a good model to follow.  Yet we are actually following that response in far too many ways.  But I also agree that it is risky.

[lobster1313]

Just now, ALWAYS CRUZIN said:

Unvaccinated 5% Carnival will be asking if you would like to indicate you have been vaccinated. Not requiring you must do so. Who would not want to let them know? Those that choose not to, are considered non vaccinated. Makes perfect sense to me. Once that reaches 5% no more non vaccinated allowed on board. I would think they should indicate that on the web site so everyone will know what to expect. Also all the TAs should be aware of it.

Carnival is requiring either the vaccination card or an approved exemption letter in order to board.  The exemptions are done in advance and they won't approve any unvaccinated exemptions at the port.  All of this is on the website and in the protocol letters that they sent out.

[BlerkOne]

Look for the up to 5% number to decrease as vaccines become available for all and one more excuse fails. Should happen in the next couple of months. Safe cruising is happy cruising.